[Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
Hi is there an out of copyright source for the two different types of byway: restricted_byway byway_open_to_all_traffic? If not, as many are signed on the ground as just 'byway', I'm not sure highway=byway should be deprecated. How are users distinguishing what type they are? Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
Here (Hampshire and surrounding counties), by what's on the ground: they tend to be signed as either byway or restricted byway. Nick -Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: - To: talk-GB@openstreetmap.org From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com Date: 22/08/2012 01:33PM Subject: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated? Hi is there an out of copyright source for the two different types of byway: restricted_byway byway_open_to_all_traffic? If not, as many are signed on the ground as just 'byway', I'm not sure highway=byway should be deprecated. How are users distinguishing what type they are? Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
Dave F. wrote: is there an out of copyright source for the two different types of byway: restricted_byway byway_open_to_all_traffic? I'd imagine that the same applies as for other public rights of way - in some places there may be something made available which is OK licence-wise; in other areas not. There was an attempt a few months ago to try and rustle up a few more areas (on this list I believe). If not, as many are signed on the ground as just 'byway', I'm not sure highway=byway should be deprecated. How are users distinguishing what type they are? There are two issues here. One is whether highway=byway actually helps describe what sort of highway it is. I'd argue that it doesn't, and that highway=service/track/something else as appropriate + some descriptive tags would be better, along with designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. The other is whether it makes sense to map something that's labelled byway as designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic or designation=byway. I've never yet found* something labelled byway that isn't actually a BOAT, so I haven't complained when people have come along and tried to standardise designation=byway to designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. Cheers, Andy * mostly in the East Mids - other areas may vary! http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?zoom=7lat=53.37917lon=-0.4812layers=B0Tu=SomeoneElse ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
I have seen Byway signs in Wiltshire in the past few months. Phil -- Sent from my Nokia N9 On 22/08/2012 14:21 SomeoneElse wrote: Dave F. wrote: is there an out of copyright source for the two different types of byway: restricted_byway byway_open_to_all_traffic? I'd imagine that the same applies as for other public rights of way - in some places there may be something made available which is OK licence-wise; in other areas not. There was an attempt a few months ago to try and rustle up a few more areas (on this list I believe). If not, as many are signed on the ground as just 'byway', I'm not sure highway=byway should be deprecated. How are users distinguishing what type they are? There are two issues here. One is whether highway=byway actually helps describe what sort of highway it is. I'd argue that it doesn't, and that highway=service/track/something else as appropriate + some descriptive tags would be better, along with designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. The other is whether it makes sense to map something that's labelled byway as designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic or designation=byway. I've never yet found* something labelled byway that isn't actually a BOAT, so I haven't complained when people have come along and tried to standardise designation=byway to designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. Cheers, Andy * mostly in the East Mids - other areas may vary! http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?zoom=7lat=53.37917lon=-0.4812layers=B0Tu=SomeoneElse ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?zoom=7lat=53.37917lon=-0.4812layers=B0Tu=SomeoneElse ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
Philip Barnes wrote: I have seen Byway signs in Wiltshire in the past few months. But did they actually look like BOATs or Restricted Byways? Were there associated signs saying take a motorbike up here and we'll nick you (RB) or deep ruts caused by the off-road crowd (BOAT)? In Derbyshire they've also tended to be labelled byway but recently the council has woken up to the fact that signing as Byway open to all traffic is a good idea. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
On 22 August 2012 14:21, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: There are two issues here. One is whether highway=byway actually helps describe what sort of highway it is. I'd argue that it doesn't, and that highway=service/track/something else as appropriate + some descriptive tags would be better, along with designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. +1 The other is whether it makes sense to map something that's labelled byway as designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic or designation=byway. I've never yet found* something labelled byway that isn't actually a BOAT, so I haven't complained when people have come along and tried to standardise designation=byway to designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic. Restricted Byways (RBs) are a fairly recent invention, as a replacement for many former Road Used as a Public Path routes. Previously the only official byway was a Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT). Prior to the introduction of RBs, a simple sign of Byway wouldn't have been unambiguous. Once the new type of byway was created, Local Authorities will have had to be more careful with their signage. Because of this, I would guess that any true Restricted Byways that have had new signs put up would be signed as a Restricted Byway, and any that haven't would still be signed as a Road Used as a Public Path. Thus anything that is signed with just Byway can safely be taken as a BOAT. As an aside, note that it is not uncommon for a Byway Open to All Traffic to be subject to a Traffic Regulation Order banning motor vehicles during all or part of the year. The signs you'll typically see in this case is a Byway fingerpost, and a No Motor Vehicles traffic sign (a white circle with a red border, and a car and motorcycle inside). While this downgrades the access rights to those of a Restricted Byway, it doesn't alter the fact that the route is technically still a Byway Open to All Traffic. In this case, I would suggest tagging with designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic (since that's what it is), adding appropriate access tags (eg motor_vehicle=no) to give the access rights, and adding a note tag (eg note=BOAT subject to Traffic Regulation Order) to explain the discrepancy. If cases arise where the mapper isn't sure what sort of byway a route is, then I'd recommend designation=unknown_byway as a place-holder tag, until the correct designation is determined. Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
On 22 Aug 2012, at 15:33, Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote: As an aside, note that it is not uncommon for a Byway Open to All Traffic to be subject to a Traffic Regulation Order banning motor vehicles during all or part of the year. The signs you'll typically see in this case is a Byway fingerpost, and a No Motor Vehicles traffic sign (a white circle with a red border, and a car and motorcycle inside). While this downgrades the access rights to those of a Restricted Byway, it doesn't alter the fact that the route is technically still a Byway Open to All Traffic. In this case, I would suggest tagging with designation=byway_open_to_all_traffic (since that's what it is), adding appropriate access tags (eg motor_vehicle=no) to give the access rights, and adding a note tag (eg note=BOAT subject to Traffic Regulation Order) to explain the discrepancy. excellent, thnx In the case of motor vehicles only being prohibited for half of the year, is there any consensus on the correct way to tag it? \a___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
Newer signs in Wiltshire do distinguish between byway and restricted byway. The former typically look like miniature road signs reading Byway whereas the latter have a purple border and explicitly say restricted byway. It varies depending on county but as I said earlier most counties round here do seem to distinguish. Unknown byways are often signed as right of way or public right of way, and West Sussex signs ORPAs now as plain Public Way ! Nick -SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: - To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org From: SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk Date: 22/08/2012 02:56PM Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated? Philip Barnes wrote: I have seen Byway signs in Wiltshire in the past few months. But did they actually look like BOATs or Restricted Byways? Were there associated signs saying take a motorbike up here and we'll nick you (RB) or deep ruts caused by the off-road crowd (BOAT)? In Derbyshire they've also tended to be labelled byway but recently the council has woken up to the fact that signing as Byway open to all traffic is a good idea. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Should highway=byway be deprecated?
In the case of motor vehicles only being prohibited for half of the year, is there any consensus on the correct way to tag it? Yes, that reminds me I need to update some byways around Avebury... [e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/25793851] I think the idea is to use the syntax from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Opening_times So I think for example only in summer months: motor_vehicle=Apr 01-Sep 30 As to whether any data consumer will be able to decipher it, is another question ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
