Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Stuart Reynolds]

Hi All,

Brian is right, I think, to say that it is best rendered by another map (which 
is what traveline does, after all) - it really isn’t that easy to keep up to 
date in OSM relations, which I find to be counter-intuitive, personally. 
However, in case you want the other options:

- data in many areas is not available as open data which includes route tracks

- in SE, EM and EA regions of traveline, the routing is produced automatically 
by the software, on top of the OSM layer, and we export the tracks that we 
generate. It isn’t bad, as a stab, but I wouldn’t want to use it as any form of 
mechanical edit into OSM. I won’t go into the details of why it is wrong here, 
unless you want me to, but suffice to say that there are enough examples of it 
not being right. I fix as many as I can, when I find them, but some are simply 
outside of my control.

- Some areas, particularly TfWM, SW, Suffolk and London, use the same system as 
SE etc. but map the data manually. This means that it is generally of good 
quality - although sometimes even then the OSM data hasn’t been interpreted 
correctly to allow correct routing through e.g. bus gates. However, that 
tracked data isn’t in my gift (although it is free of licensing issues) and I 
could always ask.

Such data as I have, in all cases, is expressed as coordinates between pairs of 
bus stops (the coordinates from the ways in OSM) rather than as references to 
way IDs, because of the chance of the ID changing.

Regards,
Stuart



On 20 Jul 2018, at 19:23, Rob Nickerson 
mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Sounds like a question for Stuart (cc'd). The travelline website does exactly 
as Brian describes. Not sure if Stuart knows any sources that can be used to 
update OSM bus routes.

Rob

On Fri, 20 Jul 2018, 12:28 Brian Prangle, 
mailto:bpran...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Gareth

If they're that old and no longer exist then just delete them!  If the bus 
stops in your area have route ref nos on them than that can be an aid.  
Otherwise there's nothing to do but ride the buses if the bus company or local 
transport authority is unwilling to release the data under an open licence.  
Having mapped bus route relations in the past and tried to keep them up to date 
I've come to the conclusion that the routes are too volatile to be worth 
entering as OSM data (and we don't make it easy to add bus route relations 
either!) so they really belong as data rendered on another map using OSM data 
as a base map. But good luck if you want to try

Regards

Brian

On 19 July 2018 at 22:17, Gareth L mailto:o...@live.co.uk>> 
wrote:
Hiya,

I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear to 
have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist, new 
ones have been introduced and others diverted.

What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to 
replace it with the correct data!
Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a case 
of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?

Cheers,
Gareth


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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Rob Nickerson]

Sounds like a question for Stuart (cc'd). The travelline website does
exactly as Brian describes. Not sure if Stuart knows any sources that can
be used to update OSM bus routes.

Rob

On Fri, 20 Jul 2018, 12:28 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Hi Gareth
>
> If they're that old and no longer exist then just delete them!  If the bus
> stops in your area have route ref nos on them than that can be an aid.
> Otherwise there's nothing to do but ride the buses if the bus company or
> local transport authority is unwilling to release the data under an open
> licence.  Having mapped bus route relations in the past and tried to keep
> them up to date I've come to the conclusion that the routes are too
> volatile to be worth entering as OSM data (and we don't make it easy to add
> bus route relations either!) so they really belong as data rendered on
> another map using OSM data as a base map. But good luck if you want to try
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On 19 July 2018 at 22:17, Gareth L  wrote:
>
>> Hiya,
>>
>>
>>
>> I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear
>> to have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist,
>> new ones have been introduced and others diverted.
>>
>>
>>
>> What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
>>
>> I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to
>> replace it with the correct data!
>>
>> Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a
>> case of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Gareth
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Gareth

If they're that old and no longer exist then just delete them!  If the bus
stops in your area have route ref nos on them than that can be an aid.
Otherwise there's nothing to do but ride the buses if the bus company or
local transport authority is unwilling to release the data under an open
licence.  Having mapped bus route relations in the past and tried to keep
them up to date I've come to the conclusion that the routes are too
volatile to be worth entering as OSM data (and we don't make it easy to add
bus route relations either!) so they really belong as data rendered on
another map using OSM data as a base map. But good luck if you want to try

Regards

Brian

On 19 July 2018 at 22:17, Gareth L  wrote:

> Hiya,
>
>
>
> I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear
> to have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist,
> new ones have been introduced and others diverted.
>
>
>
> What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
>
> I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to
> replace it with the correct data!
>
> Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a
> case of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gareth
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Gareth L]

Rugby local services are operated by Stagecoach Rugby depot, although I do not 
know if the new D1/D2/D3 services are operated out of Northampton or Daventry 
instead.
I’ve noticed there are some arriva/centrebus and de courcey services too for 
further afield routes.

Gareth

On 19 Jul 2018, at 23:38, Rob Nickerson 
mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Which bus company serves Rugby?

We could ask our contacts in Warwickshire CC, or the designer of this map on 
their website:

https://apps.warwickshire.gov.uk/api/documents/WCCC-906-239

Rob


On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 22:18, Gareth L 
mailto:o...@live.co.uk>> wrote:
Hiya,

I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear to 
have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist, new 
ones have been introduced and others diverted.

What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to 
replace it with the correct data!
Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a case 
of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?

Cheers,
Gareth

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Rob Nickerson]

Which bus company serves Rugby?

We could ask our contacts in Warwickshire CC, or the designer of this map
on their website:

https://apps.warwickshire.gov.uk/api/documents/WCCC-906-239

*Rob*


On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 at 22:18, Gareth L  wrote:

> Hiya,
>
>
>
> I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear
> to have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist,
> new ones have been introduced and others diverted.
>
>
>
> What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
>
> I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to
> replace it with the correct data!
>
> Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a
> case of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gareth
>
>
> ___
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus routes in Rugby

[Gareth L]

Hiya,

I see there are some bus routes mapped as relations in Rugby. They appear to 
have been done about 10 years ago and certain services now do not exist, new 
ones have been introduced and others diverted.

What are your suggested options of maintaining and managing this data?
I’m hesitant to delete stuff, especially as I wont necessarily be able to 
replace it with the correct data!
Are the route plans available in a OSM friendly licensed way? Or is it a case 
of spending a day on t’buses recording the routes?

Cheers,
Gareth

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus Routes

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Brian,

 

click click

 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bus_Routes_in_West_Midlands/Route_Refs 

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

>-Original Message-

>From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-

>westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Brian Prangle

>Sent: 26 April 2010 6:44 PM

>To: Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org

>Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus Routes

> 

>I'm sure I remember contributing to a page on the mappa-mercia wiki which

>listed the bus routes that had been entered as relations. I can't seem to

>find it - all I can find is a wikipedia entry which lists ALL the bus

>routes in the West Midlands. Can anyone help my memory?

> 

>Regards

> 

>Brian

> 

> 

>No virus found in this incoming message.

>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2835 - Release Date: 04/25/10

>19:31:00

> 

 

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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus Routes

[Brian Prangle]

I'm sure I remember contributing to a page on the mappa-mercia wiki which
listed the bus routes that had been entered as relations. I can't seem to
find it - all I can find is a wikipedia entry which lists ALL the bus routes
in the West Midlands. Can anyone help my memory?

Regards

Brian
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus Routes

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

I've got seriously into mapping bus routes as relations which is great fun
and a stage up from the work we have done so far on NaPTAN bus stops. Where
we have accumulated lots of route_ref data it's relatively straightforward
to plot the routes of buses. So far I've only entered National Express West
Midlands routes and I've named them after the convention NXWM Bus Route xxx.
If you don't name your relations then it gets awfully difficult to work out
what's going on based on relation number!
  I've obtained the  following list of operator codes for the West Mids and
I propose using them as  above as the first item in the relation name.

I hope everyone agrees it makes sense.

Regards

Brian

List of Operator Codes for West Midlands Bus Routes

Code

Operator

A2Z

 Travel A2Z

AAM

The A&M Group

ALC

ALC Travel

ALI

A Line

ARR

Arriva

CEB

Central Buses

CEL

Central Logistics

CEN

Central  Connect Buses

CLA

Claribel Coaches

CWT

City Way Travel

DIA

Diamond Bus

FMR

First

GLB

Golden Line

GOB

Gold Bus

GRO

Grosvenor Coaches

GTC

Green Transport Company

HIR

Hi Ride Coaches

JLN

J Line

JOE

Joe’s Travel

JON

Johnsons Coach travel

LUD

Ludlow

LYX

Lynx Solutions

MCT

Choice Travel Services

MRD

Midland Rider

NXWM

National Express West Midlands

RWG

Redwing

SAT

Sandwell Travel

SIL

Silverline Travel  Service

SMR

Stagecoach in Warwickshire

STA

Star Bus Service

STB

S T Buses

SUN

Sunrise Travel

TEX

Travel  Express

VAL

Valley Travel

WCS

Worcestershire County Council
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