Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Inclusion of Barony of .. as prefix to all Barony names?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks, I don't really have too strong an opinion on this. If I were doing it from scratch, I'd prefer to leave out the Barony of etc., since as John points out, it /should/ be deducable from the object. However, we have had County in county names for ages, and many other places in the world had extra stuff in the name tag, so it's not uncommon. When working with OSM data though, you *always* have to do some cleaning up or post-processing or something. So I wouldn't worry about people not knowing when the name starts. Hence I'm going to just leave the names as the mapper mapped them. Rory On 03/12/14 19:18, John Kennedy wrote: Having said all that, I just realised that Counties are name = County Kildare and loc_name = Kildare. So there is a precedent for the additional text and Barony of seems as justifiable as County to me. I'm happy to adopt whatever the consensus is. Thanks, - John. PS I know some people who would appreciate visibility on borders for Municipal Districts - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_district_%28Ireland%29. Could tagging/naming guidelines be proposed for those too? On 2 December 2014 at 23:39, John Kennedy jkenned...@gmail.com wrote: Brian thanks for raising this point - may I broaden it a little? I too noticed that some mappers include ED and Civil Parish but actually many do not and I haven't noticed any guidance on this anywhere for the moment. So it would be good to come to a consensus on these terms also. Thinking about it a bit, I would suggest we try to find a way to improve the readability of the map rather than add the extra text to the names of CPs, EDs or Baronies inside the OSM database. For example, it might be possible for the renderer of the (really helpful) slippymap at http://dev3.openstreetmap.ie/osm/slippymap.html to add the extra text automatically, or perhaps the fonts / colours / hatching could be tweaked. I suggest approaching it from this point of view so we can stick to the OSM convention of capturing the what just the once, in the other tags only. As well as reducing effort, text, duplication, possibility of mistakes, it also allows names to be queried automatically as expected. Forgive the ridiculous examples but if somebody wanted to analyse how many things start with each letter of the alphabet...we don't want them to have to write an exception for Irish Baronies so that they start at the 11th character (to skip Barony of ). Or for the student who for some reason wants to calculate the average length of names of things in OSM, we don't want them to have to subtract 13 when it comes to length of names of Civil Parish. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone who is contributing to the townlanding project. - John. On 2 December 2014 at 10:00, Brian Hollinshead br...@hollinshead.net wrote: In County Carlow there is Rathvilly Town, and ED and Civil Parish and Barony. Having an interest in Historical boundaries as well as their relevance for genealogy I printed out an A1 map of County Carlow with townlands and Civil parishes and Baronies. Even though the barony names were in a different font size and colour I felt it would be more friendly to anyone reading the map to prefix Barony of to each barony name where I had not remembered to. I may also have strayed into PJNAs wexford with the same in mind. (Sorry PJ) Maybe we could reach a gentle consensus as to how to approach this, I look forward to your views. We already include ED and Civil Parish in their titles. I wonder if we are going to includeBarony ofwhether the preset magician Donal can prepopulate the name box? No hardship if he can't. ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUiAc9AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2uWUIAJ6rXuOUsAr8U76aaN3rKizQ w9u5pWzCGF/jerbJfNFQNDgfVwHTOF3rIC4UhlOTPFa5lXkFVhAwTliNCM0nMfAD syXIhmW/p9MGzvfiz3/pY6ZwjZewQHkSua2Q2q/2XPaKGoE9qkxOdWEdGFCYin7+ rJUSRetW5KruTgzlhErt0nkDP0fp7POl6o9y+1fYT29vqACzLlk64zm5CbMY21mk KcxaAY9FvLe+IaaCs/WS6dkZv688s3UrMBsESA77VvSDo5MDBuBkTF2d8/lcIH1M vhy/K86Yd2WeG0ZBoxdRx84EbTxHcP+aH2o2ui07d7brs2U0NsJCIRsEG1lN7mw= =YUIK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Inclusion of Barony of .. as prefix to all Barony names?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Brian, I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here. Are you asking about how the objects should be named in OSM? Or are you looking for a way to display a map with guaranteed to have a Barony of prefix? If it's the later, I could update the download files on townlands.ie to include a new column, descriptive_name or something, which will always include a Barony of for each barony. On townlands.ie, I process the name from OSM, so that it is always displayed as Barony of X on the web. Would that work for you? Rory On 02/12/14 11:00, Brian Hollinshead wrote: In County Carlow there is Rathvilly Town, and ED and Civil Parish and Barony. Having an interest in Historical boundaries as well as their relevance for genealogy I printed out an A1 map of County Carlow with townlands and Civil parishes and Baronies. Even though the barony names were in a different font size and colour I felt it would be more friendly to anyone reading the map to prefix Barony of to each barony name where I had not remembered to. I may also have strayed into PJNAs wexford with the same in mind. (Sorry PJ) Maybe we could reach a gentle consensus as to how to approach this, I look forward to your views. We already include ED and Civil Parish in their titles. I wonder if we are going to include Barony ofwhether the preset magician Donal can prepopulate the name box? No hardship if he can't. ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUiAi4AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2tjcH/ihRMKAP+aZpLqXWWK9/oTLV lNyumhmSHibrESOICxno2uWENeEASWUS2Q0IDCOj9k04Gzxk3mF091k/6Vo0u5Qq hpu5v+p/oE8pyq48tE6coxsabrjzhySJYNhxrUZ5EEPrgFQHshxBepVFWgRRTJUm 9dPm+Fi2+CkJ3StRD+f0wQb/5KVgKAD0W0U1BsHnYudd5dGJatKoM99M2nJMUFKG 1zcaUN5mgZ/Yw9Ejq+vBOlLlzmcJNLIRI2UvTUCaUHY7pku2HBmldz15R83wwE5S P/FXuzr6ooo7uO3qcfBICG6bpdqIlm3EeBICbLP+7OPzD7EOWwgFOmVev2A2NAY= =o9FU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Inclusion of Barony of .. as prefix to all Barony names?
Having said all that, I just realised that Counties are name = County Kildare and loc_name = Kildare. So there is a precedent for the additional text and Barony of seems as justifiable as County to me. I'm happy to adopt whatever the consensus is. Thanks, - John. PS I know some people who would appreciate visibility on borders for Municipal Districts - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_district_%28Ireland%29. Could tagging/naming guidelines be proposed for those too? On 2 December 2014 at 23:39, John Kennedy jkenned...@gmail.com wrote: Brian thanks for raising this point - may I broaden it a little? I too noticed that some mappers include ED and Civil Parish but actually many do not and I haven't noticed any guidance on this anywhere for the moment. So it would be good to come to a consensus on these terms also. Thinking about it a bit, I would suggest we try to find a way to improve the readability of the map rather than add the extra text to the names of CPs, EDs or Baronies inside the OSM database. For example, it might be possible for the renderer of the (really helpful) slippymap at http://dev3.openstreetmap.ie/osm/slippymap.html to add the extra text automatically, or perhaps the fonts / colours / hatching could be tweaked. I suggest approaching it from this point of view so we can stick to the OSM convention of capturing the what just the once, in the other tags only. As well as reducing effort, text, duplication, possibility of mistakes, it also allows names to be queried automatically as expected. Forgive the ridiculous examples but if somebody wanted to analyse how many things start with each letter of the alphabet...we don't want them to have to write an exception for Irish Baronies so that they start at the 11th character (to skip Barony of ). Or for the student who for some reason wants to calculate the average length of names of things in OSM, we don't want them to have to subtract 13 when it comes to length of names of Civil Parish. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone who is contributing to the townlanding project. - John. On 2 December 2014 at 10:00, Brian Hollinshead br...@hollinshead.net wrote: In County Carlow there is Rathvilly Town, and ED and Civil Parish and Barony. Having an interest in Historical boundaries as well as their relevance for genealogy I printed out an A1 map of County Carlow with townlands and Civil parishes and Baronies. Even though the barony names were in a different font size and colour I felt it would be more friendly to anyone reading the map to prefix Barony of to each barony name where I had not remembered to. I may also have strayed into PJNAs wexford with the same in mind. (Sorry PJ) Maybe we could reach a gentle consensus as to how to approach this, I look forward to your views. We already include ED and Civil Parish in their titles. I wonder if we are going to includeBarony ofwhether the preset magician Donal can prepopulate the name box? No hardship if he can't. ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Inclusion of Barony of .. as prefix to all Barony names?
Brian thanks for raising this point - may I broaden it a little? I too noticed that some mappers include ED and Civil Parish but actually many do not and I haven't noticed any guidance on this anywhere for the moment. So it would be good to come to a consensus on these terms also. Thinking about it a bit, I would suggest we try to find a way to improve the readability of the map rather than add the extra text to the names of CPs, EDs or Baronies inside the OSM database. For example, it might be possible for the renderer of the (really helpful) slippymap at http://dev3.openstreetmap.ie/osm/slippymap.html to add the extra text automatically, or perhaps the fonts / colours / hatching could be tweaked. I suggest approaching it from this point of view so we can stick to the OSM convention of capturing the what just the once, in the other tags only. As well as reducing effort, text, duplication, possibility of mistakes, it also allows names to be queried automatically as expected. Forgive the ridiculous examples but if somebody wanted to analyse how many things start with each letter of the alphabet...we don't want them to have to write an exception for Irish Baronies so that they start at the 11th character (to skip Barony of ). Or for the student who for some reason wants to calculate the average length of names of things in OSM, we don't want them to have to subtract 13 when it comes to length of names of Civil Parish. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone who is contributing to the townlanding project. - John. On 2 December 2014 at 10:00, Brian Hollinshead br...@hollinshead.net wrote: In County Carlow there is Rathvilly Town, and ED and Civil Parish and Barony. Having an interest in Historical boundaries as well as their relevance for genealogy I printed out an A1 map of County Carlow with townlands and Civil parishes and Baronies. Even though the barony names were in a different font size and colour I felt it would be more friendly to anyone reading the map to prefix Barony of to each barony name where I had not remembered to. I may also have strayed into PJNAs wexford with the same in mind. (Sorry PJ) Maybe we could reach a gentle consensus as to how to approach this, I look forward to your views. We already include ED and Civil Parish in their titles. I wonder if we are going to includeBarony ofwhether the preset magician Donal can prepopulate the name box? No hardship if he can't. ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
