Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
Some related news (Kerala towns mainly though) http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/government-approves-new-names-of-25-towns-175540 Srikanth ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov-results/paper2/data_files/karnataka/7-admin-unit-38.pdf On 10 February 2012 13:00, Aneesh T doc.ane...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011-prov-results/paper2/data_files/karnataka/Data%20Sheet_2011_Karnataka.pdf And here you see all the old names being used in Census of India 2011 On 10 February 2012 12:56, Aneesh T doc.ane...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/MDDS/mdds_dir_Urban_29.pdf Here's the census of India 2011 list of urban areas in Karnataka... All have the Anglicised names.. We ought to use them and keep the pronounced kannada names (written in english eg. Mangaluru, Shivamogga etc) as alternate names.. until the central government approves all the names. On 10 February 2012 09:03, Anush Shetty anushshe...@gmail.com wrote: Aren't the names and codes used in census reports the best to go with? Anush ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, It seems there are following inconsistencies: Official name, Name on the map Shimoga, Shivamoga Dharwad, Dharwada Hubli, Hubballi I think this is downright confusing for people who aren't aware of these alternate names. Shall we not try to stick to the official names (as per Govt. records) for these and plenty of other cities like these? Regards, Ishan ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
Based on these official websites and the text therein, I felt that the official names are as they have it: http://www.dharwad.nic.in/ http://shimoga.nic.in/ http://www.hdmc.gov.in/ http://www.mysore.nic.in/ However, I'm sure there must be some official government list of city names available somewhere. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.com wrote: I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, It seems there are following inconsistencies: Official name, Name on the map Shimoga, Shivamoga Dharwad, Dharwada Hubli, Hubballi I think this is downright confusing for people who aren't aware of these alternate names. Shall we not try to stick to the official names (as per Govt. records) for these and plenty of other cities like these? Regards, Ishan ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
Those are nic sites :) On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Based on these official websites and the text therein, I felt that the official names are as they have it: http://www.dharwad.nic.in/ http://shimoga.nic.in/ http://www.hdmc.gov.in/ http://www.mysore.nic.in/ However, I'm sure there must be some official government list of city names available somewhere. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, It seems there are following inconsistencies: Official name, Name on the map Shimoga, Shivamoga Dharwad, Dharwada Hubli, Hubballi I think this is downright confusing for people who aren't aware of these alternate names. Shall we not try to stick to the official names (as per Govt. records) for these and plenty of other cities like these? Regards, Ishan ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
I always thought NIC sites are more or less official ones. :-) Would trust them more than Wikipedia. But, even some *.gov.in sites are there.. http://www.mysorecity.gov.in/ http://www.shimogacity.gov.in/ etc. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.com wrote: Those are nic sites :) On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Based on these official websites and the text therein, I felt that the official names are as they have it: http://www.dharwad.nic.in/ http://shimoga.nic.in/ http://www.hdmc.gov.in/ http://www.mysore.nic.in/ However, I'm sure there must be some official government list of city names available somewhere. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, It seems there are following inconsistencies: Official name, Name on the map Shimoga, Shivamoga Dharwad, Dharwada Hubli, Hubballi I think this is downright confusing for people who aren't aware of these alternate names. Shall we not try to stick to the official names (as per Govt. records) for these and plenty of other cities like these? Regards, Ishan ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
Thanks for the background, Kiran. After reading your note and also looking around the web for other discussions like these, I am even more convinced than ever before that OSM should go with the central government approved names. These name changes look perfectly legitimate to me on the map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaming_of_cities_in_India. To ask me, I would think having an official name change requires both state and central govt. approval, and in the absence of both these approvals, the name change cannot be official. Hence, OSM must not use these names. I suggest OSM stick to the centrally approved names instead of regional variants. It will present a consistent view to everyone looking at the map and eliminate confusion or surprises. I feel the best list to cross check these can be the list of members of parliament (Lok Sabha) and the Lok Sabha constituencies: http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/Members/statedetail.aspx?state_code=Karnataka(this is coming from a gov.in website, dunno what's the deal with the IP address). Are there any instances of such issues in any other country as well? Regards, Ishan On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:41 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. Official depends on which official you mean. Bangalore is Bengaluru according to the Government of Karnataka, but still Bangalore according to the Government of India. The central government has refused to confirm *any* of the new names in Karnataka because Karnataka tried renaming Belgaum to Belagavi, but the district government has been lobbying to move into Maharashtra. Karnataka tried renaming several cities in a single order. The central government will not accept it unless Belgaum is removed from the list. Karnataka will not do this because it amounts to admitting a problem in Belgaum. This stand-off has existed for years. State-funded projects like the airport refer to Bengaluru. Centre-funded institutions like the railways still say Bangalore. The media has lost interest in this, so there are few references on the current status. I posted one to this list a couple years ago. One simple way to verify current status is by looking at what the major newspapers say in the list of cities they publish from. The Times of India, The Hindu, Deccan Herald and Mint all say Bangalore. I remember seeing a newspaper that said Bengaluru, but can't recall which. Thought it was Deccan Herald, but their website says Bangalore. So the question is, which side is the OSM community on? Kiran ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Ishan Chattopadhyaya ichattopadhy...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the background, Kiran. After reading your note and also looking around the web for other discussions like these, I am even more convinced than ever before that OSM should go with the central government approved names. These name changes look perfectly legitimate to me on the map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaming_of_cities_in_India. To ask me, I would think having an official name change requires both state and central govt. approval, and in the absence of both these approvals, the name change cannot be official. Hence, OSM must not use these names. I suggest OSM stick to the centrally approved names instead of regional variants. It will present a consistent view to everyone looking at the map and eliminate confusion or surprises. I feel the best list to cross check these can be the list of members of parliament (Lok Sabha) and the Lok Sabha constituencies: http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/Members/statedetail.aspx?state_code=Karnataka(this is coming from a gov.in website, dunno what's the deal with the IP address). Are there any instances of such issues in any other country as well? Regards, Ishan On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:41 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda j...@pobox.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I always look to wikipedia for reference as there are always more people debating these things over there and reaching a consensus. Correct me if im wrong, but i do think Shivamoga, Hubbali etc are the official names now. Just like Bengaluru and Mysuru. Official depends on which official you mean. Bangalore is Bengaluru according to the Government of Karnataka, but still Bangalore according to the Government of India. The central government has refused to confirm *any* of the new names in Karnataka because Karnataka tried renaming Belgaum to Belagavi, but the district government has been lobbying to move into Maharashtra. Karnataka tried renaming several cities in a single order. The central government will not accept it unless Belgaum is removed from the list. Karnataka will not do this because it amounts to admitting a problem in Belgaum. This stand-off has existed for years. State-funded projects like the airport refer to Bengaluru. Centre-funded institutions like the railways still say Bangalore. The media has lost interest in this, so there are few references on the current status. I posted one to this list a couple years ago. One simple way to verify current status is by looking at what the major newspapers say in the list of cities they publish from. The Times of India, The Hindu, Deccan Herald and Mint all say Bangalore. I remember seeing a newspaper that said Bengaluru, but can't recall which. Thought it was Deccan Herald, but their website says Bangalore. So the question is, which side is the OSM community on? Kiran I dont know which side to take, the Indian Railways for instance continue to use old names for many of the stations - Trivandrum, Quilon, Cannanore even though the renaming has been approved by the centre (Thiruvanthapuram, Kollam, Kannur). we do have the name, name:en, alt_name, old_name tags. Maybe a uniform policy on what tags to use for what is what we need. If Mysuru has been approved by the state and local institutes like colleges and offices have started using it in their addresses, it must definitely be there on some tag, we cant drop it altogether just because it has not been approved by the centre. OSM is a people's map, and if the local people feel that the name is common enough for it to be used locally, it must be documented somewhere. ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Use of official names for cities
Hi all, It seems there are following inconsistencies: Official name, Name on the map Shimoga, Shivamoga Dharwad, Dharwada Hubli, Hubballi I think this is downright confusing for people who aren't aware of these alternate names. Shall we not try to stick to the official names (as per Govt. records) for these and plenty of other cities like these? Regards, Ishan ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
