[Talk-transit] Issues with evening / sundays routes
Hello to everyone, I'd like to hear your opinion about a specific issue I encountered during the mapping of Padova, Italy bus and tram network. I discussed this issue with Roland and we thought it was good to have a discussion here on the list. There are some daytime routes, line 3,5,10 as examples, which have limited or extended routes in the evening (and maintain the same line number). I have started drawing evening line 10 with a new relation, which has an extended route to see what it happens. The result is here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/417179 Line 10 is also a daytime line, and basically, I understood I should be using a same ref either for the daytime and evening routes. But this causes a problem for example in OPNV and OSMTransport, where the line 10 would be also shown in the extended route. Same thing in Roland's generator, that combines all the routes with same ref into one sketch (because some routes have branches and so on). I was thinking that I could be using either: - a different network tag or a network relation in these evening or sunday routes: separate network relations. There would be then one network for Monday to Friday, another network for Sundays and another for evenings. I have started putting APS Mobilità Serale or APS Mobilità Festivo to distinguish from APS Mobilità (regular daytime network). But this causes anyway trouble in OPNV,OSMT or Roland's generator because they don't seem to distinguish the different network tag (and Roland's generator is coupling the evening line to the daytime line). - a different ref tag, like 10S for evening line 10 or 12F for sunday line 12. In this way OPNV,OSM Transport and Roland's generator would show these lines as separated from the daytime route. - what else? any other suggestion? Then, what tag should be used in the route relation to express that that line is running Monday-Saturday or Sunday only? I've been using day_on=Mo-Sa or day_on=Su so far. What about operating times? Should I use opening_hours=21:00-24:00 for an evening line? The operating day and times are also important because using them can be used as a filter on the correspondances: for example, on weekday daytime only (Monday-Saturday 6:30-21:00) line 9 (http://78.46.81.38/api/sketch-line?network=APS+Mobilit%C3%A0ref=9correspondences=50width=1900height=600font-size=14force-rows=1max-cors-per-line=max-cors-below=20style=padua) I don't want to see line 42 correspondances (Sunday only 7:00-21:00), or evening line 10 (Mo-Su 21:00-24:00), because actually in reality these correspondances are not possible :D I'm waiting for your inputs :) ciao Tiziano http://padovatrasporti.blogspot.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
Wow,it looks like Google copied mgarrucho's edits pretty accurately ^_^ http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17lat=10.68148lon=122.95614layers=B0TF Maning, you contacted him already for information? Totor --- On Wed, 2/24/10, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Subject: [talk-ph] Bacolod To: osm-ph talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 3:59 PM http://osm.org/go/4n8s7ZJ but no trace: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mgarrucho/traces -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
Let's not jump into conclusions this early. :) On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Totor totor_...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow,it looks like Google copied mgarrucho's edits pretty accurately ^_^ http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17lat=10.68148lon=122.95614layers=B0TF Maning, you contacted him already for information? Totor --- On Wed, 2/24/10, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Subject: [talk-ph] Bacolod To: osm-ph talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 3:59 PM http://osm.org/go/4n8s7ZJ but no trace: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mgarrucho/traces -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] FREE OSM-PH Map for Loadstone Satellite Navigation
I am offering a new free download service for Loadstone-GPS users Loadstone GPS is a satellite navigation software developed for Symbian Mobile/phones using the Series60 platform. It was designed as a navigational tool useful for blind and visually impaired people using screen readers. http://esambale.wikispaces.com/osmph_vip Let's make OSM useful for our visually impaired brothers and sisters! -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] City in well city names
You mark a point there Eugene, that could indeed be the reason for the word City in road signs. I think we should at least be consistent in the different pages / websites. From which data is this page generated : http://openstreetmap.org.ph/viewall.php ? Regards, Totor --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: The reason why you'll see signs that add the word City is because achieving city status is a badge of honor. The city governments would like to proclaim that they are a city (which implies a more developed places) every chance they get! So I wouldn't put too much weight on those signs and government websites. ;-) My two centavos, Eugene (osm:seav) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] [waypointsdotph] OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
Hi All, I would definitely like to join and would like to contribute by directly seeking out the locations of attraction sites or popular places in Marikina so they can be added to OSM and the vicinity maps of WaypointsDotPH. These are places like Good Eats, theme parks, museums, heritage places, historical places, trade hubs, specialty crafts, etc. As you may already know, several websites have already blogged or featured such places with some even listing the places but they have not really plotted nor provided the locations on maps. My plan is ... During the mapping party, I would like to discuss with the people who are familiar with Marikina and create a list of popular places and find out their general locations, then we will go directly to the locations, get the GPS coordinates and contribute the list of coordinates to OSM and WaypointsDotPH. See you guys! ed On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:49 AM, esambale esamb...@yahoo.com wrote: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party Hi, We will have our Openstreetmap Philippines Marikina City Mapping Party on March 20, 2010. Invite your friends. We will teach you how to map using GPS, paper, on foot, car or bike. Let's make Marikina City the best mapped city in OSM. Please watch this page for more details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina If anyone is willing to join, help in the preps or sponsor the event just PM me. cheers, maning Visit the WaypointsDotPH website: http://www.waypoints.ph You can contribute GPS data here: www.waypoints.ph/invite.php You can follow website developments on twitter.com/waypointsdotphYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: waypointsdotph-dig...@yahoogroups.com waypointsdotph-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: waypointsdotph-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] [waypointsdotph] OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
Alright Ed! I added this mapping goal in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina#Mapping_objectives Some interesting places you can tackle maybe: - Bars and restaurants along Gil Fernando (formerly P. Tuazon) - Historical markers and museums - Shoe Museum, World of Butterflies, the old De La Pena chapel (the first Jesuit chapel constructed in Marikina) and other churches - Puto delicacies in San Roque See you! On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, I would definitely like to join and would like to contribute by directly seeking out the locations of attraction sites or popular places in Marikina so they can be added to OSM and the vicinity maps of WaypointsDotPH. These are places like Good Eats, theme parks, museums, heritage places, historical places, trade hubs, specialty crafts, etc. As you may already know, several websites have already blogged or featured such places with some even listing the places but they have not really plotted nor provided the locations on maps. My plan is ... During the mapping party, I would like to discuss with the people who are familiar with Marikina and create a list of popular places and find out their general locations, then we will go directly to the locations, get the GPS coordinates and contribute the list of coordinates to OSM and WaypointsDotPH. See you guys! ed On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:49 AM, esambale esamb...@yahoo.com wrote: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party Hi, We will have our Openstreetmap Philippines Marikina City Mapping Party on March 20, 2010. Invite your friends. We will teach you how to map using GPS, paper, on foot, car or bike. Let's make Marikina City the best mapped city in OSM. Please watch this page for more details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina If anyone is willing to join, help in the preps or sponsor the event just PM me. cheers, maning Visit the WaypointsDotPH website: http://www.waypoints.ph You can contribute GPS data here: www.waypoints.ph/invite.php You can follow website developments on twitter.com/waypointsdotphYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: waypointsdotph-dig...@yahoogroups.com waypointsdotph-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: waypointsdotph-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] [waypointsdotph] OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
I suggest we prepare a list of specific POI you want in the map. Then we divide this hitlist as bounty to people in the assigned cake slice. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 1:45 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Alright Ed! I added this mapping goal in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina#Mapping_objectives Some interesting places you can tackle maybe: - Bars and restaurants along Gil Fernando (formerly P. Tuazon) - Historical markers and museums - Shoe Museum, World of Butterflies, the old De La Pena chapel (the first Jesuit chapel constructed in Marikina) and other churches - Puto delicacies in San Roque See you! On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, I would definitely like to join and would like to contribute by directly seeking out the locations of attraction sites or popular places in Marikina so they can be added to OSM and the vicinity maps of WaypointsDotPH. These are places like Good Eats, theme parks, museums, heritage places, historical places, trade hubs, specialty crafts, etc. As you may already know, several websites have already blogged or featured such places with some even listing the places but they have not really plotted nor provided the locations on maps. My plan is ... During the mapping party, I would like to discuss with the people who are familiar with Marikina and create a list of popular places and find out their general locations, then we will go directly to the locations, get the GPS coordinates and contribute the list of coordinates to OSM and WaypointsDotPH. See you guys! ed On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:49 AM, esambale esamb...@yahoo.com wrote: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party Hi, We will have our Openstreetmap Philippines Marikina City Mapping Party on March 20, 2010. Invite your friends. We will teach you how to map using GPS, paper, on foot, car or bike. Let's make Marikina City the best mapped city in OSM. Please watch this page for more details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina If anyone is willing to join, help in the preps or sponsor the event just PM me. cheers, maning Visit the WaypointsDotPH website: http://www.waypoints.ph You can contribute GPS data here: www.waypoints.ph/invite.php You can follow website developments on twitter.com/waypointsdotphYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waypointsdotph/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: waypointsdotph-dig...@yahoogroups.com waypointsdotph-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: waypointsdotph-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Metro rail loop finally finished
Metro rail loop finally finished http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100226-255382/Metro-rail-loop-finally-finished Of course it's in the map! http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32223272 -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back
I have not followed the entire discussion but I think that Vic Morgan view is very synthetic and interesting. I'll just add a couple of questions: - How much is the ratio Contributors / users in Wikipedia ? - How much is it in OSM ? Vincent -Message d'origine- De : talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] De la part de Vic Morgan Envoyé : jeudi 25 février 2010 00:31 À : talk@openstreetmap.org Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back I just thought that you'd like the opinion of a (not so) newbie in this intense discussion. In order to attract people (potential mappers) to the site it has to offer something back - it has to have functionality. Not functionality to the mapper - Potlatch is quite adequate for my level of expertise - but both a reason and a reward for taking an interest in OSM. I'd suggest that some of this functionality could be provided by links to a couple of recently mentioned sites, and probably others; 1. Openrouteservice.org This is a clear demonstration of how the OSM data can be used to provide a useful service to the user. It's a usable and useful tool, and as an added bonus readily demonstrates any weaknesses in local OSM data. 2. Maposmatic.org Anyone visiting OSM will have an interest in getting a map of some description. Ordinary punters will have no interest whatsoever in rendering - all they want is a map. Maposmatic provides just that, without bogging the user down in technical detail. Between them these two sites offer the rewards that might just tempt people into contributing to the OSM project because they can connect data gathering with an end-product, without inviting the user to undertake an instant course in half-a-dozen arcane IT subjects. So my message is - add functionality and usability to the OSM entry point by linking to usable, useful sites. Why else would they want to visit the site? If the site is genuinely useful, and perhaps inspiring, they'll come again and may start to contribute. Once they are 'hooked' you can expose them to appalling mire of the OSM Wiki and so-called help pages. By then they may have the inspiration to plough through it all to satisfy their own particular needs. UrbanRambler. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back
Vic Morgan wrote: I just thought that you'd like the opinion of a (not so) newbie in this intense discussion. In order to attract people (potential mappers) to the site it has to offer something back - it has to have functionality. Not functionality to the mapper - Potlatch is quite adequate for my level of expertise - but both a reason and a reward for taking an interest in OSM. I'd suggest that some of this functionality could be provided by links to a couple of recently mentioned sites, and probably others; 1. Openrouteservice.org This is a clear demonstration of how the OSM data can be used to provide a useful service to the user. It's a usable and useful tool, and as an added bonus readily demonstrates any weaknesses in local OSM data. 2. Maposmatic.org Anyone visiting OSM will have an interest in getting a map of some description. Ordinary punters will have no interest whatsoever in rendering - all they want is a map. Maposmatic provides just that, without bogging the user down in technical detail. Between them these two sites offer the rewards that might just tempt people into contributing to the OSM project because they can connect data gathering with an end-product, without inviting the user to undertake an instant course in half-a-dozen arcane IT subjects. So my message is - add functionality and usability to the OSM entry point by linking to usable, useful sites. Why else would they want to visit the site? If the site is genuinely useful, and perhaps inspiring, they'll come again and may start to contribute. Once they are 'hooked' you can expose them to appalling mire of the OSM Wiki and so-called help pages. By then they may have the inspiration to plough through it all to satisfy their own particular needs. UrbanRambler. I think Vic has very nearly placed his finger on the issue. Many of the older OSMers are deeply entrenched in the ideology of OSM is not a map, but a database of the world and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, this approach is only useful to a second tier of developers, such as the Cloudmades of the world who take the data and create useful products from it. There is a certain class of people, i.e. many of those on this list, for whom collecting the data is in and of itself an intriguing and useful activity. However, I am not really one of those. I came to OSM, because I was tired of the crappy maps, either out of date or in error, that were available for my areas of interest and I was told about this project that would let me actually fix the maps myself. I suspect the casual OSM visitors, hopefully users, hopefully contributors, initially get to the website for about the same reason. There needs to be something to immediately engage these casual visitors and draw them in. In my opinion what the casual visitor needs to see is emphasis on a top notch map rendering (and I'm not saying that Mapnik is not), along with a usable navigator. That is the bare minimum that the competition has to offer. This is necessary to engage the user at all, otherwise the impression will be, Oh, this is an interesting project, I hope they make something useful out of it some day. Now that you have engaged them you make it clear that while they are using the products of the underlying data that are included on the website, if they happen to see something missing, incorrect, or just plane crazy, they have several options for getting it fixed, a) a bug report which some volunteer may some day act on, b) a very simplified editor for simple fixes so that they can fix it immediately themselves, c) a set of more robust editors that, if they are interested they can learn about in order to create and correct some of the more complex objects. In my opinion, the map, the navigation function, the simple editor, a simple tutorial, and possibly a couple of pushbuttons that would show different styles, etc., for a little flare, are all that should be emphasized on the home page. This is what is needed for initial enticement. Of course, links to other pages, such as What is OSM really all about, how to do more complex editing, etc. should be clearly available. In my opinion, this is the way to engage new users, some, if not many of whom will become casual contributors, some of whom will be hooked into becoming major contributors, some of whom will become major flame war contributors :-]. It needs to be a graduated process so that the transition from visitor, to user, to contributor, to major contibutor can be made in comfortable steps, none of which will leave the person feeling totally lost with the process, and each of which will entice one step further. Granted there are realities along the way, tagging ambiguities, for example, that prevent this ideal. But if the user is able to enter the process in an orderly manner, the snags along the way won't be offputting to the point that they say This is not for me, but either continue to develop
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: This is starting to get silly that everyone else can have a free for all which I largely ignore, but if I legitimatly call someone out, even in negative tones, thats a crime of the highest order and not only that you don't even go check that i apologised already! I advise, from my professional role, that you learn how to criticise without involving the individual personally, and that you learn to separate your anger from your replies. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 19:42, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as needed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be detected by keepright etc. But there should be a way of editing names of existing objects, and minor tweaks to existing objects (additional nodes on a way, movements of existing nodes). People should be able to fix minor labelling and shape errors. Richard On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:50 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 19:42, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as needed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 20:10, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be detected by keepright etc. True, perhaps if we leave out vector editing altogether and instead just give people a way of simple problems (bad name or no name etc) and a way to report problems, eg routing that doesn't seem to work properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
I would like to see a global bug tracking and issue system for josm. that would include automatic checks on upload. imagine if all validity checks were stored globally. you could also do a validity filter on the map and only show validated ways. mike On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:13 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 25 February 2010 20:10, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: Error-checking sounds like a great way of putting scary pop-ups on the screen to frighten newbies. So you'd have to be very very careful how clear they were. If in doubt leave them out. Leave these bugs to be detected by keepright etc. True, perhaps if we leave out vector editing altogether and instead just give people a way of simple problems (bad name or no name etc) and a way to report problems, eg routing that doesn't seem to work properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
That would include a better way to add comments to way and tag them for quality. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
Op 25-02-10 10:50, John Smith schreef: On 25 February 2010 19:42, Lized...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). Need some error checking on over lapped ways, could be as simple as poping up an error message asking if the ways should be joined or are on different levels and add layer tagging or joining the ways as needed. Why not do some thing that prevents the way to go overlapping in the first place, something like an elastic band thing. Until the location is correct, the direction follows the mouse but waits until a non cross. This could also be a good thing for polygons that self intersect. I think this newbee editor should basically get layers, and not be some free form editor. Clearly get a user in the direction: You are now editing the road system (Leaving all other data readonly) or You are now editing PoI's. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back
On -10/01/37 20:59, Randy wrote: Vic Morgan wrote: ... I think Vic has very nearly placed his finger on the issue. Many of the older OSMers are deeply entrenched in the ideology of OSM is not a map, but a database of the world and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, this approach is only useful to a second tier of developers, such as the Cloudmades of the world who take the data and create useful products from it. There is a certain class of people, i.e. many of those on this list, for whom collecting the data is in and of itself an intriguing and useful activity. However, I am not really one of those. I came to OSM, because I was tired of the crappy maps, either out of date or in error, that were available for my areas of interest and I was told about this project that would let me actually fix the maps myself. I suspect the casual OSM visitors, hopefully users, hopefully contributors, initially get to the website for about the same reason. There needs to be something to immediately engage these casual visitors and draw them in. I too think that Vic and Randy have some valid points. Perhaps (and without numbers it remains speculation), an even bigger usability problem to the casual newbie than the difficult to use editors and particularly the layout of the main page, is the usability of the data. I.e. what can they actually do with OpenStreetMap data? Why, other than idealistic reasons, should they contribute to OpenStreetMap? Many people will work for free, as in without money. But few people are truly altruistic, i.e work with out expecting some form of reward. So we need to offer them something. If we want to attract Geeks, Cartographers, GIS professionals and programmers as mappers, then vector data is just fine as a reward. If we want to attract Joe the plumber, and I think we do, then most likely we need to offer him something else that he actually finds useful. If there is a good enough reason to contribute, then there are sufficient number of newbies who will get through the main page or editor usability issues. Wikipedia, I think is a good example for that. It is the 6th biggest site on the entire internet and has collected vast amounts of knowledge with a large number of non-techy people contributing to it. Never-the-less their usability sucks, as SteveC would put it so friendly. Think about all those various combinations of double and triple brackets, nested templates, stars, equal signs and what else that has been arbitrarily mapped onto markup meanings. OpenStreetMap's editor usability and tagging system can't be that much worse. Yet loads of people contribute to it. Possibly because end users find it a valuable resource and end users see a reason to put in all this effort to jump and climb over the barrier of entry to get to the party... Given, that I too see OpenStreetMap _primarily_ as a map data provider and not a mapping site, I don't think all of the end user functionality necessarily has to be in house (although probably more than we have at the moment). But it has to be reached very easily and quickly by new people and not strewed arbitrarily and difficult to find on hundreds of different servers. The Openstreetmap.de Schaufenster ( http://www.openstreetmap.de/schaufenster/index.html ) I think is a good starting point for that. In many ways, we do indeed already have a lot of the necessary end user tools. Like the garmin maps, like the various routing providers, like the examples of how to embed OSM into your own website, like navigation tools for many other mobile platforms, useful utilities somewhere in our SVN repository... What we probably are lacking is a good integrated experience so that newbies can find these resources, start using OSM data and eventually they will hopefully become mappers if they notice issues in the data while using it. All that said, I am definitely not saying we don't have a need or shouldn't improve our editing tools to lower the barrier of entry. There is definitely room and need for improvement, but perhaps we shouldn't forget this other side of usability as an additional option. Kai P.S. one thing that has to be kept in mind though if we would push additionally more towards an end user site, is, do we have the technical and financial resources to support that? Running a large end user site requires a lot of resources and we might end up needing a yearly donation drive like Wikipedia. Do we really want to get into that (already)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of the considerations? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson g...@bitplane.net wrote: If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of the considerations? I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to replace it: - Javascript with HTML 5 - Silverlight - Java applets A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for cutting edge versions, and except IE). A silverlight implementation is certainly possible too, but the plugin is not widely spread among the different browsers and the different operating systems. You could of course code in Java and create a Java applet, but honestly I fail to see how it would be acceptable to many people. I might miss other possibilities but those are the main alternative to Flash and for many reason none are really a good alternative yet to Flash. If you have a good idea on how to crack the Flash problem, please let us know. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.comwrote: On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson g...@bitplane.net wrote: If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of the considerations? I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to replace it: - Javascript with HTML 5 - Silverlight - Java applets A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for cutting edge versions, and except IE) I've toyed with using Google Maps API to implement a simple editor before. It was fairly simple to do. I stopped development because I didn't think it would gain widespread use in the OSM community because it was created with their API. I know OpenLayers provides a similar drawing API, but I was more familiar with Google Maps API. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 13:30, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 12:14, Gaz Davidson g...@bitplane.net wrote: If there are plans for a new web editor, can avoiding Flash be part of the considerations? I would like to know what you suggest in order to replace Flash. While I dislike Flash quite a bit, I fail to see what you could actually use to replace it: - Javascript with HTML 5 - Silverlight - Java applets A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for cutting edge versions, and except IE) I've toyed with using Google Maps API to implement a simple editor before. It was fairly simple to do. I stopped development because I didn't think it would gain widespread use in the OSM community because it was created with their API. I know OpenLayers provides a similar drawing API, but I was more familiar with Google Maps API. You could either just use svg directly or use a library like raphael or OpenLayers or Google maps, (but check out the demos at http://raphaeljs.com/) There's a problem with all the javascript approaches though and it's the memory limit, I believe this is why cartagen isn't any useful. Obviously flash, silverlight and java have memory limits too but they're higher. I don't see silverlight as a gain over flash as there's no _really_usable_ opensource implementation of either (that I know of) and so some mappers will always be excluded -- those that value software freedom or those on rare architectures. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 10:42, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). + drawing ways by driving a car in 3d! :) I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, including me, although I think I got over it, because of the very non-technical mappers it invited to contribute and who just added work for others to correct. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 13:00, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM etc. Sorry in advance for the mixed answers. I might over play it but I used to do some serious coding in JS for some time, and browser compatibilities and limitations were all too evident at the time. I suspect it has changed quite a bit with the new Javascript engines out there, but I suspect that some of the more advanced functionalities that you might need might have some problem in the end due to memory and cpu constraints. Someone mentioned Cartagen which is very interesting but still slow for a tool. Again, I don't mind being proven wrong. Ian's code could be a starting point for some interested coders. We have to think also in terms of functionalities and target platforms. As Andrezj said, we could use SVG which would solve a few problems, since at least SVG can be manipulated through DOM api. We could use libraries like openlayer which would provide us with a good starting point. I might be wrong but it all depends on what you want to do, how fast, how complete, etc... Also, I would like to point out that Richard at some point mentioned that a HTML 5 client for Potlatch would be nice. Action Script is an ECMAscript based language. Of course, we would be missing libraries from Flash, but adapting part of the code would be possible for someone that is technically able. Anyway, in any case, I don't want to discourage anyone from working on this. It would be quite interesting to see it happen. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.comwrote: On 25 February 2010 13:00, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM etc. Sorry in advance for the mixed answers. I might over play it but I used to do some serious coding in JS for some time, and browser compatibilities and limitations were all too evident at the time. I suspect it has changed quite a bit with the new Javascript engines out there, but I suspect that some of the more advanced functionalities that you might need might have some problem in the end due to memory and cpu constraints. Someone mentioned Cartagen which is very interesting but still slow for a tool. Again, I don't mind being proven wrong. Ian's code could be a starting point for some interested coders. When I was playing with using a JavaScript editor, my thought was to do what Google MapMaker does: show the slippy map without any primitives downloaded for editing. If a user wants to edit something, they must first click on it (which causes an API hit to download the way(s) and node(s)). Afterwards, the way shows up as a line with draggable handles to change the position. Also, a dialog for editing the tags (in a simple way). Most of this is fairly trivial. The trickiest part is (a) making an API call to return the way closest to a given pair of coordinates and (b) make it fast enough for franticly-clicking newbies to not get upset when it doesn't respond immediately. Since all of this is fairly modal, a help screen could be shown on the left describing what to do at each step of the way. i.e. Find a road you'd like to edit and click on it. (click) Now, drag to change the position of the road. (clickdragclick) If you're done, click 'Save'! You're done! Congratulations. User stories for adding new POI and roads attached to existing roads might be a little more complicated, but still doable. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
2010/2/22 SteveC st...@asklater.com: On Feb 21, 2010, at 18:57, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/2/21 SteveC st...@asklater.com: Sure. In Germany you have this amazing community where there's a stamptish around every corner. But out here it's much harder and we need these easier tools to build the map. thing is that you can't build a crowd-sourced map when missing the crowd. There is no easy shortcut. Was that meant to disagree or agree with what I said or what? I'd say it was pointing out, that IMHO your argumentation doesn't hold. Easier tools are certainly a good thing, but without a community it is all nothing. Whoever wants to push OSM should in the first place strengthen the community. The more mappers you have the better it is. Emphasis on _mappers_. Otherwise we will be in a situation like the proprietary map providers: even with loads of feedback they are not able to update their maps in time (it takes them years to check and correct already known errors). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:03 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, including me, although I think I got over it, because of the very non-technical mappers it invited to contribute and who just added work for others to correct. Andrzej, I humbly apologize for messing up your world map. David. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
I am guessing that OpenLayers could already have most of the functionality that is needed. The primary issue is with the practical limit on the number of vector features being handled by the browser. When used in IE, that is about 300 features. If you can manage the number of features downloaded in a manner that didn't bother the user, I am guessing that it could work. David. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:00 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 22:23, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: A full Javascript implementation is certainly possible with some of the new feature that are only in some browsers (read forget all browser except for I think you are over playing this, the openlayers JS can already do a lot in existing browsers and even IE, and if we're only talking about a simple browser it doesn't need all the features that exist in JOSM etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
I have been contributing to OSM for several months, gulping down the Kool Aid. Man, was it sweet and fruity nectar. Lately, this juice is starting to taste really bitter and I am starting to see giant multi-colored spiders in the shadows... I love the idea of OSM, I love mapping my world and worlds that I don't know anything about, but I have to say that the 'OSM community' is not what it first appeared to be. I wouldn't worry about creating newbie editors to bring in new mappers when the banter on the mailing lists is likely to scare them away from making any serious contributions to the map. And, I thought that the OSM TagWankers list was the painful one to read... David. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: This is starting to get silly that everyone else can have a free for all which I largely ignore, but if I legitimatly call someone out, even in negative tones, thats a crime of the highest order and not only that you don't even go check that i apologised already! I advise, from my professional role, that you learn how to criticise without involving the individual personally, and that you learn to separate your anger from your replies. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back
I think I am in the same camp as Kai / Randy / Vic ... I regard myself as not-quite-a-newbie-any-more (i.e. somewhere between Kai's 'Geek' and his 'Joe the Plumber'. I enjoy contributing to OSM as a mapper - both recording the GPX and editing it in JOSM (with not-nearly-so-intuitive-and-often-counter-intuitive Potlatch for quick minor tweaks). I am on a few mailing lists (and sometimes contribute), read bits of the wiki from time to time (and occasionally contribute to it), etc. I mention all this only so that others can judge my comments in context. In (partially) following this thread about OSM design I have in fact discovered several external sites of which I was completely unaware and which are going greatly to add to my fun with / use of OSM e.g. Mapzen and MapOsmatic. Sites like this will also help me 'sell' OSM to friends and colleagues who think I am a bit mad wandering around with a GPS receiver and a digital voice recorder! In fact, all I would suggest - at least as a first (but hugely beneficial) step is putting a bunch of links (and a couple of good maps - one urban and one rural) on the front page. This isn't rocket science but I think it would pay back in spades just as others have argued in this thread. I don't think we need to become more of an end-user site ourselves (and probably should not because of reasons of support etc. and dilution of the primary purpose as a mapping site that accumulates good data). In support of my argument I would cite the recent sterling efforts made by OSM mappers in responding to the Haiti earthquake emergency. Our value was the data we had and could accumulate. But what the end users in the field needed were (mostly) up-to-the-minute maps they could use e.g. on hand-held GPS receivers. We could - and did - provide the data. Other implementations made it available in user-friendly form. This seems about the right model also for less dramatic everyday use. Just my thoughts for what they are worth from a not-quite-a-newbie! mikh43 On 19:59, Kai Krueger wrote: On -10/01/37 20:59, Randy wrote: Vic Morgan wrote: ... I think Vic has very nearly placed his finger on the issue. Many of the older OSMers are deeply entrenched in the ideology of OSM is not a map, but a database of the world and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, this approach is only useful to a second tier of developers, such as the Cloudmades of the world who take the data and create useful products from it. There is a certain class of people, i.e. many of those on this list, for whom collecting the data is in and of itself an intriguing and useful activity. However, I am not really one of those. I came to OSM, because I was tired of the crappy maps, either out of date or in error, that were available for my areas of interest and I was told about this project that would let me actually fix the maps myself. I suspect the casual OSM visitors, hopefully users, hopefully contributors, initially get to the website for about the same reason. There needs to be something to immediately engage these casual visitors and draw them in. I too think that Vic and Randy have some valid points. Perhaps (and without numbers it remains speculation), an even bigger usability problem to the casual newbie than the difficult to use editors and particularly the layout of the main page, is the usability of the data. I.e. what can they actually do with OpenStreetMap data? Why, other than idealistic reasons, should they contribute to OpenStreetMap? Many people will work for free, as in without money. But few people are truly altruistic, i.e work with out expecting some form of reward. So we need to offer them something. If we want to attract Geeks, Cartographers, GIS professionals and programmers as mappers, then vector data is just fine as a reward. If we want to attract Joe the plumber, and I think we do, then most likely we need to offer him something else that he actually finds useful. If there is a good enough reason to contribute, then there are sufficient number of newbies who will get through the main page or editor usability issues. Wikipedia, I think is a good example for that. It is the 6th biggest site on the entire internet and has collected vast amounts of knowledge with a large number of non-techy people contributing to it. Never-the-less their usability sucks, as SteveC would put it so friendly. Think about all those various combinations of double and triple brackets, nested templates, stars, equal signs and what else that has been arbitrarily mapped onto markup meanings. OpenStreetMap's editor usability and tagging system can't be that much worse. Yet loads of people contribute to it. Possibly because end users find it a valuable resource and end users see a reason to put in all this effort to jump and climb over the barrier of entry to get to the party... Given, that I too see OpenStreetMap _primarily_ as a map data
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward - and back
Le 25/02/10 00:31, Vic Morgan a écrit : I just thought that you'd like the opinion of a (not so) newbie in this intense discussion. In order to attract people (potential mappers) to the site it has to offer something back - it has to have functionality. Not functionality to the mapper - Potlatch is quite adequate for my level of expertise - but both a reason and a reward for taking an interest in OSM. I'd suggest that some of this functionality could be provided by links to a couple of recently mentioned sites, and probably others; 1. Openrouteservice.org This is a clear demonstration of how the OSM data can be used to provide a useful service to the user. It's a usable and useful tool, and as an added bonus readily demonstrates any weaknesses in local OSM data. 2. Maposmatic.org Anyone visiting OSM will have an interest in getting a map of some description. Ordinary punters will have no interest whatsoever in rendering - all they want is a map. Maposmatic provides just that, without bogging the user down in technical detail. Between them these two sites offer the rewards that might just tempt people into contributing to the OSM project because they can connect data gathering with an end-product, without inviting the user to undertake an instant course in half-a-dozen arcane IT subjects. So my message is - add functionality and usability to the OSM entry point by linking to usable, useful sites. Why else would they want to visit the site? If the site is genuinely useful, and perhaps inspiring, they'll come again and may start to contribute. Once they are 'hooked' you can expose them to appalling mire of the OSM Wiki and so-called help pages. By then they may have the inspiration to plough through it all to satisfy their own particular needs. UrbanRambler. +1. We have had a similar discussion on the talk-fr : http://openstreetmap.fr/forum#nabble-td4566068|a4566068 starting in the middle of the thread -- Vincent Pottier alias FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] With apologies to RichardF/FakeSteveC
Recently I've been a bit negative about potlatch and by over-extension to RichardF. I apologise, sorry! To make amends, I have ordered an amazing I love you bean: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/c6f0/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/c6f0_i_love_you_bean.jpg and a awesome you are here tshirt: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/sciencemath/6e90/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/you_are_here.jpg in case Richard ever gets lost. Both are winging their way to Richards employers address with UPS express as we speak. And just for luck, a map2 too is also enroute: http://www.thezoomablemap.com/ http://www.thezoomablemap.com/medien/bilder/ldnpic06.jpg Of course this raises the vital issue, what do you buy a geek to say sorry? Admittedly I was tempted by a years subscription to The Economist. But no. Disappointingly, FREE BEER is not purchasable online right now (but check it out: http://www.freebeer.org/blog/ version 4 recipe now shipping) http://freebeer.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/nik_0039_edit.jpg ThinkGeeks amazing floating spinny globe is not available for international shipping: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/c780/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/c780_levitron_revolution_world_stage.jpg And the LED umbrella is out of stock http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travel-outdoors/9260/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/led_umbrella.jpg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 February 2010 17:19, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: I completely disagree. We're running a project to map the world, We agree on that - but I claim that to do so effectively we have to harness the power of all those people who don't yet get what we're trying to achieve... Are you sure about that? How many people does it take to map the world? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? More than that? The more the merrier. But I'm not sure about the whole we have to part... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:32 AM, Ian Dees wrote: Most of this is fairly trivial. The trickiest part is (a) making an API call to return the way closest to a given pair of coordinates and (b) make it fast enough for franticly-clicking newbies to not get upset when it doesn't respond immediately. Since all of this is fairly modal, a help screen could be shown on the left describing what to do at each step of the way. i.e. Find a road you'd like to edit and click on it. (click) Now, drag to change the position of the road. (clickdragclick) If you're done, click 'Save'! You're done! Congratulations. This, all of it. Not an editor, just a way to poke the map and make a change directly. -mike. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
On 25 February 2010 17:28, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Are you sure about that? How many people does it take to map the world? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? More than that? The more the merrier. But I'm not sure about the whole we have to part... Alright - let's settle on we should. In a world where we can't define when a map is complete, have to is going to be similarly subjective. But the answer to your second question is more than that - whatever the suggested figure is. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On 25 February 2010 16:04, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:03 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to Imagine the BAN THE NEW EDITOR voices here though. Potlatch was already considered too accessible by a lot of people, including me, although I think I got over it, because of the very non-technical mappers it invited to contribute and who just added work for others to correct. Andrzej, I humbly apologize for messing up your world map. All I'm saying is you surely remember all these threads on this list and if you want to make a new editor that's easier than Potlatch then it's more likely that there will be this kind of voices. And if the editor soon gets banned then it wasn't very useful to spend time on it. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] With apologies to RichardF/FakeSteveC
Excelent! I hope one day you will have to apologise to me too! You made my day with this hilarious mail! ;-) Kind regards, Milo van der Linden SteveC wrote: Recently I've been a bit negative about potlatch and by over-extension to RichardF. I apologise, sorry! To make amends, I have ordered an amazing I love you bean: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/c6f0/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/c6f0_i_love_you_bean.jpg and a awesome you are here tshirt: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/sciencemath/6e90/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/you_are_here.jpg in case Richard ever gets lost. Both are winging their way to Richards employers address with UPS express as we speak. And just for luck, a map2 too is also enroute: http://www.thezoomablemap.com/ http://www.thezoomablemap.com/medien/bilder/ldnpic06.jpg Of course this raises the vital issue, what do you buy a geek to say sorry? Admittedly I was tempted by a years subscription to The Economist. But no. Disappointingly, FREE BEER is not purchasable online right now (but check it out: http://www.freebeer.org/blog/ version 4 recipe now shipping) http://freebeer.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/nik_0039_edit.jpg ThinkGeeks amazing floating spinny globe is not available for international shipping: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/c780/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/c780_levitron_revolution_world_stage.jpg And the LED umbrella is out of stock http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travel-outdoors/9260/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/led_umbrella.jpg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
andrzej zaborowski wrote: All I'm saying is you surely remember all these threads on this list and if you want to make a new editor that's easier than Potlatch then it's more likely that there will be this kind of voices. And if the editor soon gets banned then it wasn't very useful to spend time on it. Cheers History often teaches us lessons, but sometimes we need to avoid predictions and fears of the past recurring in order to move on to the future. This thread has been very creative. Let's not let fears of the past squelch or redirect that creativity. Maybe we have all learned some lessons that will avoid the negatives of the past. Let's assume that until proven otherwise. And, thanks to Liz for kicking this thread off. I think it has stimulated some creative juices in the group. Unfortunately my understanding of the guts of OSM, and my limited and archaic programming skills prevent me from making any creative technical inputs. So, PRESS ON!! -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: How about an even bigger step back? Actually I just realised that, alternatively, perhaps we could be looking at something like Mapzen POI Collector for the desktop? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 February 2010 17:28, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Are you sure about that? How many people does it take to map the world? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? More than that? The more the merrier. But I'm not sure about the whole we have to part... Alright - let's settle on we should. In a world where we can't define when a map is complete, have to is going to be similarly subjective. But the answer to your second question is more than that - whatever the suggested figure is. Ha, well, my point failed then, because I was thinking more like 10,000. How many does Google have? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
I are with keeping the scope very limited - if we start to add too many features you will get Potlatch, which would defeat the object of a very simple, easy to use editor for people that do not understand much about the underlying data structure. I think that Adding POIs and changing labels of existing entities should be enough for most casual users (so people can change the spelling of their street, add a bank etc.). We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change geometries. Graham. On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. gkai On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:47:18 +0100, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: I are with keeping the scope very limited - if we start to add too many features you will get Potlatch, which would defeat the object of a very simple, easy to use editor for people that do not understand much about the underlying data structure. I think that Adding POIs and changing labels of existing entities should be enough for most casual users (so people can change the spelling of their street, add a bank etc.). We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change geometries. Graham. On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
A simple/complex switch in an existing editor is a nice idea. I didn't suggest it because Potlatch is the obvious candidate and I know nothing about Flash programming, so couldn't offer to help do that - I would have a bit more chance with a Java applet, but I am a bit old fashioned like that! Javascript would be the obvious next choice after Flash, but I find it very hard to de-bug and it always feels a bit un-responsive to me, but that may well be the networking rather than the program itself. Graham. On 25 February 2010 21:13, Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz wrote: On 26 February 2010 09:47, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.comwrote: We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change geometries. +1 I think the app should provide some form of stepping stone functionality for more advanced tools. For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea to provide a toggle between simple mode complex mode inside of Potlatch, rather than build a completely new editor? Potlatch could default to simple mode to prevent scaring off new contributors, but provide more complex operations with one click. Graham. On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz wrote: For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea to provide a toggle between simple mode complex mode inside of Potlatch, rather than build a completely new editor? I think it first depends on what we decide we want this new editor to do. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer silversur...@oleco.net wrote: There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - does hitting Save actually save the changes to OSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
silversurfer wrote: There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. In order to be a truly easy editor it would need fixed and localized data entry masks instead of text fields. Imo, we cannot expect newbies to look up and edit raw key/value strings. Couldn't the Amenity Editor share presets with JOSM? That would instantly make a large number maintained and translated templates available. Problems that could lead to calls for banning it include: * you can move nodes on ways if they have tags. If someone moves the marker for e.g. a road sign along a street - which looks perfectly sensible in AE -, it will probably distort the way (haven't tested). * it doesn't display markers for features mapped as areas. This would inevitably lead to a lot of duplicate entries. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, though. It clearly demonstrates that simpler-than-Potlatch editing is possible. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
Roy Wallace wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees. I'd start with the following in the design brief for the Newbie Editor Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name). Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name. Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this). I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc. How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features: 1) Add POI User specifies: a) where it is b) what it is (choose from a single list of options) c) the name 2) Edit Name e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a lot with noname roads Secondly: can we please decide on the scope of before we talk about the details of the implementation (flash/javascript/etc)? My personal preference would be to provide a little more capability, such as adding a simple two-way highway, with only the minimum in selected presets, except for the name, and moving nodes to correct a highway within limits, but nothing more than that. But, as long as the architecture of the editor and the UI are designed so that limited additional capability can be added if/when it is deemed desirable, I have no problem with keeping to the extreme minimum, initially. Maybe simple way editing could be part of the turbo (please not complex) editor mode. One thing I do think should be included in the simplist editor would be a way to tag any object with a FIX ME plus a comment. So that the user can as least flag a discovered error, even if it can't be fixed with the user's current editor/expertise. That would relieve a little frustration for someone who might feel that the simple editor was too restrictive and that the error they found will be lost once more. And yes, there should be a prominent link to a page that briefly describes the other, more powerful editors a short list of pros and cons, and links to them. I think something of this nature, maybe less, probably not more, would grab the user with Yes, I can make a difference! followed by Now I want to make a bigger difference, and I've got some idea about where to go next. Maybe I'm wrong. Only time and the hard work of those with the expertise to do it will tell. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of Newbie Editor
Roy Wallace a e'crit: On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:11 AM, silversurfer silversur...@oleco.net wrote: There is a similar concept on http://ae.osmsurround.org/. It is called OSM Amenity Editor. Wow, that's great! How did I not know about this editor? :S Liz, how does this compare to what you had in mind? Too simple? I think it would be very handy to add the ability to name/rename roads, but other than that, this looks great... I only had a quick look - does hitting Save actually save the changes to OSM? I tried to save a change to a POI in my neighborhood, I was offered to enter my OSM id/password, but then there was an error and the change was apparently not entered. Also, while trying to correct the amenity=... tag value, I had the nice surprise to be offered possible values, apparently with their current frequency in the data base. This does look like a nice basis, maybe indeed with the added ability to name/rename roads. Jean-Guilhem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] history
Hallo lijst, Het lijkt me een leuk idee om de geschiedenis van mijn omgeving zichtbaar te maken. Ik denk aan een applicatie die met een slider door de tijd kan schuiven en dan de verandering in de omgeving laat zien. Daarvoor zoek ik naar een manier om de benodigde data in de osm db op te slaan. Ik zag de 1) historic tag maar die heeft een ander doel. Moet ik meer richting de 2) annotations? Ik denk dat je voor elk 3) element (node,ways) een dergelijke tag zou willen toevoegen. Waarden zouden dan zijn het ontstaan van het element en eventueel het een datum van verwijdering. Dit is dus iets anders dan het tijdstip van verwijdering uit de osm db, maar dat hadden jullie al door. Iemand ideeën of al iets dergelijks gedaan? 1) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Historic 2) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation 3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Elements ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] history
Op 25 februari 2010 22:17 heeft YRS jav...@hccnet.nl het volgende geschreven: Hallo lijst, Het lijkt me een leuk idee om de geschiedenis van mijn omgeving zichtbaar te maken. Ik denk aan een applicatie die met een slider door de tijd kan schuiven en dan de verandering in de omgeving laat zien. Daarvoor zoek ik naar een manier om de benodigde data in de osm db op te slaan. Ik zag de 1) historic tag maar die heeft een ander doel. Moet ik meer richting de 2) annotations? Ik denk dat je voor elk 3) element (node,ways) een dergelijke tag zou willen toevoegen. Waarden zouden dan zijn het ontstaan van het element en eventueel het een datum van verwijdering. Dit is dus iets anders dan het tijdstip van verwijdering uit de osm db, maar dat hadden jullie al door. Iemand ideeën of al iets dergelijks gedaan? 1) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Historic 2) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation 3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Elements volgens mij taggen we alleen maar wat momenteel actueel is.. dus of dit mogelijk/wenselijk is weet ik zo 123 niet just my 2 cents Rob ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Overmapping?
On 25/2/10 3:59 AM, Liz wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: This, on the other hand, may well be true. But IMHO this is NOT a reason to limit what gets entered into the OSM database, but simply to *pre-process* the OSM data (filtering out unwanted details as desired) prior to loading onto the GPS unit. i agree. perhaps a cyclist would want the roads removed for some styles of map Yes, actually that's rather like what I had in mind: a walking map of Fremantle. It was me, you see; I'm the overmapper! I don't think the extra detail is harmful, and if one were to produce a map in which the footways were big and obvious, and the roads little incidental grey lines, then this data would be better off as ways rather than extrapolated from roads' tags. Of course, it's that slippery slope again: at what point will someone come along and want to map footpaths as areas?! Actually, the GIS data that I'm most familiar with (not to imply that I'm familiar with it at all, really) is that of Western Power, where every footpath /is/ an area, as well as every grassy verge and driveway entrance! - Sam. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overmapping?
On 25 February 2010 18:57, Sam Wilson s...@archives.org.au wrote: Of course, it's that slippery slope again: at what point will someone come along and want to map footpaths as areas?! Actually, the GIS data that I'm most familiar with (not to imply that I'm familiar with it at all, really) is that of Western Power, where every footpath /is/ an area, as well as every grassy verge and driveway entrance! Until we have the ability to include additional information with ways to map widths more accurately, people are going to keep using areas. It'd be nice to have a lot more micro mapping tools at our disposal, but that's the reality of things at present. At the same time, as you pointed out, there is no harm in adding additional areas, unless there is no accompaning way as well, there is information that can't be encoded as areas, and areas can't be scaled well, while it can make maps look nice at high zooms, they become increasingly less useful at lower zooms for things like navigation. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overmapping?
On 25/2/10 6:05 PM, Richard Colless wrote: in to the 50m level. The attached file shows what it looks like on my Etrex. The footways are much smaller than the roads, and don't really add to the clutter. In fact, when I zoomed in to 8m the display became less cluttered. So I guess we can really map whatever detail we feel (It's good to see Freo getting this much attention!) In terms of map clutter, that parking off to the left is more of a worry: it's tagged access=private, so surely shouldn't really be mapped? On the other hand, the fantastic café opposite it doesn't get a look in! ;-) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overmapping?
On 25 February 2010 20:37, Sam Wilson s...@archives.org.au wrote: In terms of map clutter, that parking off to the left is more of a worry: it's tagged access=private, so surely shouldn't really be mapped? Mapped, or shown on maps? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overmapping?
On 25/2/10 7:07 PM, John Smith wrote: Mapped, or shown on maps? Ah yes, right: shown on /that/ map. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] License to OSM
I've hacked up an example of what something like this could look like... http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/osm-license.png ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Relatório Semanal: 25/02/2010
*Status dos Projetos OSM-br* * B250C - Brasil 250 Cidades* Página do Projeto: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_250_Cidades ***2a. fase* Conectividade em *58,32%* *(+57,81% na semana)* Grid Atualizado (html): http://mapaslivres.org/cidades-distancias.html (13 Mb) Grid Atualizado (zip): http://mapaslivres.org/cidades-distancias.ziphttp://mapaslivres.org/cidades-distancias.html(2 Mb) Obs: O script não conseguiu terminar todas as cidades. Faltaram algumas de SP e TO. Creio que na próxima semana estará bem. *JOSM - Tradução ao português* Página do Projeto: https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+pots/josm Indicador: Percentual de strings traduzidas em *58.11% (+0,28% na semana)* *Site osm.org - Tradução ao português * Página do Projeto: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk/site Indicador: String Traduzidas em *100%*! *Potlach* - *Tradução ao português* Página do Projeto: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk/potlatch Indicador: String Traduzidas em *100%*! ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] Como impedir edições?
Oi. To frustado... Descobri hoje que o openstreetmap não é uma wikipedia. Fui recentemente para para natal-RN, então obti a trilha João pessoa Natal, tudo bem... jogo no osm e edito tudo legal lá. Ai hoje vou completar o trabalho... e vejo que um tal de rainerr apagou tudo, jogou uma trilha lá sem futuro, sem usar relações, sem duplicar, sem p***a nenhuma e eu não tenho como reverter. Sinceramente se ninguém me apontar com desfazer esse tipo de coisa não vejo porque contribuir com esse projeto. Fui ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Länge von Straßen berechnen
Original-Nachricht Datum: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:25:09 +0100 Von: Armin Schuchter mail@marchmol.at An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: [Talk-de] Länge von Straßen berechnen Hallo, ich würde gerne eine Liste mit Straßen erstellen, wobei jeweils die Länge dieser berechnet werden soll. In etwa so wie beim Relation Analyzer, welcher die Länge der Relation angibt. Weiters soll nicht nur nach Straßen, sondern auch z.B. die Länge der Brügersteige einer Straße berechnet werden können. Bevor ich alles neu erfinde, wollte ich fragen, ob es in diese Richtung schon Lösungen gibt? Armin Die Länge der Straße zu berechnen ist ziemlich simpel. Du musst dir nur alle Wege, die zu einer Straße gehören (exklusiv Fußwege) holen und deren Länge zusammenrechnen. /Aber/: Was verstehst du unter 'Länge'? Hier würde alles zusammengerechnet werden, also auch Einfahrten oder Seitenarme, die zur Straße gehören!!! Um das Programmiertechnisch zu bewerkstellen, holst du dir (woher auch immer) alle Wege, die den gleichen Namen und einen highway=(motorway|motorway_link|trunk|trunk_link|primary|primary_link|secondary|secondary_link|tertiary|unclassified|road|residential|living_street|service) haben. Dann berechnest du die Abstände zwischen den Punkten der einzelnen Wege und addierst sie. Diese Berechnung kann ich dir sowohl für perl, als auch PHP geben... Komplex wird das ganze nur, wenn beispielsweise mehrere Spuren getagt sind, oder (für mich immer ein grauß), wenn irgend ein 'netter' User statt Wege zu zeichnen nur Flächen zeichnet... MfG Andreas -- Andreas Neumann Camsdorfer Ufer 18 07749 Jena Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser - jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Apple User
Ähm ja. Sowas in der Richtung hatte ich mir dann gedacht :) Aber Hand auf's Herz: als Tüftler, Bastler, Entwickler oder wie Du Dich auch nennen magst ist es für Dich wahrscheinlich das größte Vergnügen Dein System einschl. Software selber zusammenzustellen und per Handarbeit zum Laufen zu bringen. Vielleicht sogar bestimmte Spezialanwendungen selber zu programmieren. Ich schließe weiterhin aus Deinen Worten, dass Dir das offenbar viel Freude bereitet. Soviel, dass Du diese Arbeit auch für andere gegen Bezahlung erledigst. Ich möchte nur abschließend festhalten dass es einen Unterschied macht ob ich mir beispielsweise mein Auto selber in der heimischen Garage aus Einzelteilen zusammenschraube oder ob ich ein Auto fix und fertig fahrbereit kaufe. Im ersten Fall investiere ich einen Teil meiner Lebenszeit direkt (weil's mir eben Spaß macht), im zweiten Fall indirekt über bezahlte Arbeit, die nichts mit Autobasteleien zu tun hat. Aber egal wie man seine Zeit letztlich nutzt - es bleibt immer Geschmackssache. Gruß, Christian Am 25.02.2010 um 08:09 schrieb Bernd Wurst: Am Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010 17:34:50 schrieb Christian Schmitt: Oh jetzt wird's interessant. Welches Betriebssystem nutzt Du denn hauptsächlich? Selbst nutze ich Gentoo, wobei man das natürlich nicht jemandem empfiehlt, der auspacken und einschalten will. Meine Kunden und eine Familie setzen daher eher Ubuntu/Kubuntu oder auch Debian ein. Bevor jemand mit der Hardware-Problematik kommt: Es ist nicht verboten, sich *vor* dem Kauf schlau zu machen welche Hardware man kauft. Dann gibt's auch damit keine Probleme. Das Problem mit teilweise nicht direkt funktionierender Hardware kommt daher, dass viele Leute irgendwelche Designed for MS- Windows- Hardware kaufen und die dann nicht mit Linux-Systemen tut. Wen wundert's? Aber ich denke die Diskussion können wir hier getrost ruhen lassen und (wenn du Interesse hast) privat fortsetzen. Mit OSM hat das wenig zu tun. Gruß, Bernd -- Optimisten haben gar keine Ahnung von den freudigen Überraschungen, die Pessimisten erleben. - Peter Bamm (dt. Schriftsteller (1897-1975)) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Tool für Abbiegeverbot, Achslast, Durchfahrtshöhe
Als Fussgänger und Radfahrer hatte ich das sträflicherweise bisher nie beachtet. Als frischgebackener Navi-Besitzer möchte ich das gern ändern. Wo finde ich ein pfiffiges Tool, mit dem ich Abbiegeverbote mit meinem neuen WinCE-PNA unterwegs erfassen kann? Dann könnte ich auch gleich Durchfahrtshöhen, Achslasten, Einbahnstrassen mitschreiben. Wie installiere ich dieses Tool? Wie lade ich die gesammelten Daten hoch? Sind noch andere Daten wichtig? Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Motivation zum Beheben von Bug-meldungen von kommerziellen Verwertern der OSM Daten?!?
Wird Skobbler die OSM Datenbank nach seinen Wünschen und/oder mit/gegen den Willen der Community aktiv umzugestalten versuchen? Marcus hat auf dem skobbler-Blog dazu einige Gedanken zusammengefasst: http://blog.skobbler.de/2010/02/skobbler-osm-segen-fluch-1v2/ Um soviel vorwegzunehmen: skobbler hatte keine Freunde mehr unter den großen, kommerziellen Kartenanbietern und wünscht sich nichts sehnlicher, als dass die OSM-Community großen Erfolg hat und die zwei großen Kartenanbieter in ihre Schranken verweist. Gruß Oliver -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Motivation-zum-Beheben-von-Bug-meldungen-von-kommerziellen-Verwertern-der-OSM-Daten-tp4615339p4631400.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Abbiegeverbot, Achslast, Durchfahrtshöhe
Markus schrieb: Als Fussgänger und Radfahrer hatte ich das sträflicherweise bisher nie beachtet. Als frischgebackener Navi-Besitzer möchte ich das gern ändern. Wo finde ich ein pfiffiges Tool, mit dem ich Abbiegeverbote mit meinem neuen WinCE-PNA unterwegs erfassen kann? Dann könnte ich auch gleich Durchfahrtshöhen, Achslasten, Einbahnstrassen mitschreiben. OSMtracker könnte das wohl. Aber der läuft vermutlich nur mit Klimmzügen auf deinem PNA. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSMtracker listet einige kompatible Geräte auf. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Abbiegeverbot, Achslast, Durchfahrtshöhe
Nachtrag: ist auch auf Deutsch erklärt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSMtracker gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Werte fuer XY:urban XY:rural etc.
Hallo Julian, Doru Julian Bugariu schrieb: Nicht direkt Tabelle, aber hilft http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Maxspeed da evtl. ein wenig weiter? Danke. Das sieht vielversprechend aus. hast Du auch vor, die richtungsabhängigen maxspeeds zu unterstützen, also maxspeed:forward=* maxspeed:backward=* laut tagstat kommen sie zwar erst 117-mal vor, aber das könnte sich ändern! Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Abbiegeverbot, Achslast, Durchfahrtshöhe
Hallo Markus, Markus schrieb: Wo finde ich ein pfiffiges Tool, mit dem ich Abbiegeverbote mit meinem neuen WinCE-PNA unterwegs erfassen kann? Dann könnte ich auch gleich Durchfahrtshöhen, Achslasten, Einbahnstrassen mitschreiben. Wie installiere ich dieses Tool? Wie lade ich die gesammelten Daten hoch? Sind noch andere Daten wichtig? Mit meinem Koordinatenprogramm kannst Du das theoretisch machen, d.h. Du musst Dir dazu Buttons erstellen, die POIs mit vorgegebenen Werten in eine Liste schreiben, die dann via GPX-Format nach JOSM gelangt. Hier habe ich ein paar einfache Beispiele erstellt: http://wince.dentro.info/koord/menu_beispiele.html Das Programm ist ein Tool, mit dem Du viel machen kannst, daher wird keine feste Oberfläche angeboten. Es gibt aber etliche GoPal-Skinner, die erstaunliche Dinge damit veranstalten ... Falls Interesse besteht, melde Dich nochmal. Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) schrieb: Also NaviPOWM (kostenlos) z.B. sollte problemlos laufen. So richtig navigieren kann man aber mit dem doch auch (noch) nicht? Oder kan man da inzwischen ein Ziel eingeben und los drücken? Kartenanzeige tuts ja auch bei gpsvp und osmtracker, um meine Favoriten zu nennen. QlandkarteM täte ich auch gerne nutzen, aber der mag wohl nicht mal den Com-Port umstellen lassen. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tauchen
Hallo, Ja, OpenSeaMap ist auch ein Overlay. Es besteht aber aus gerenderten Kacheln Das bezweifel ich, wenn ich eines der Icons in Mozille mit rechts anklicke und Grafik anzeigen auswähle komme ich zu: http://map.openseamap.org/map/resources/places/marina_32.png und zwar für jede Marina - da werden Icons über den normalen Tiles plaziert nicht 2 Tiles übereinander. Gruß Dimitri ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Apple User
Hallo, Bernd Wurst wrote: Aber ich denke die Diskussion können wir hier getrost ruhen lassen und (wenn du Interesse hast) privat fortsetzen. Mit OSM hat das wenig zu tun. Schade, ich wollte gerade Gentoo is for ricers einwerfen ;-) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Andre Joost schrieb: Also NaviPOWM (kostenlos) z.B. sollte problemlos laufen. So richtig navigieren kann man aber mit dem doch auch (noch) nicht? Oder kan man da inzwischen ein Ziel eingeben und los drücken? nein, geht noch nicht. Das liegt aber an NaviPOWM und nicht am abgespeckten Betriebssystem. Ich wollte eigentlich nur sagen, dass man durchaus auch auf einer WinCE-core andere Programme laufen lassen kann. Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Apple User
Am Donnerstag 25 Februar 2010 11:12:19 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Bernd Wurst wrote: Aber ich denke die Diskussion können wir hier getrost ruhen lassen und (wenn du Interesse hast) privat fortsetzen. Mit OSM hat das wenig zu tun. Schade, ich wollte gerade Gentoo is for ricers einwerfen ;-) Dann bin ich ja froh, dass die Diskussion kurz davor beendet wurde, denn darauf hätte ich dann vielleicht wieder antworten wollen. :) Gruß, Bernd -- Ich kann ja nicht singen, nicht tanzen... und im Gegensatz zu Anderen, lass ich das dann auch. - Dieter Nuhr (dt. Comedian) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Walter Nordmann wrote: ich kenn mich zwar in Münster nicht aus, aber das müßte ein reales Kreuz (Denkmal, ...) sein. Zumindest auf dieser Karte, die wir ja eigentlich ... Dann kann man es natürlich taggen und das Problem Punkt mit Namen aus der Welt schaffen. Fragt mal nen Münsteraner - aber einen mit 2 Beinen ;-) Bin ja selber einer ;-) Wie oben gesagt, das Keuz exisitert auch, ist auch bei OSM eingetragen. Aber 1. dürfte dieses in dem hier besprochenen Straßenlistenabgleich nicht ausgewertet werden, und somit würde man immer eine angeblich fehlende Str. angezeigt bekommen. Und 2. gibt es eben nicht immer einen Gegenstand für einen Namen. Siehe mein zweites Beispiel: Aegidiitor. Dort ist nun nicht mal mehr ein einziger Stein des ehemaligen Tores übrig. Prinzipiell scheinen solche Fälle zwar selten zu sein, aber es gibt sie, und darum wäre es gut, wenn wir dafür eine einheitliche Lösung hätten. Ich fand ja den Vorschlag place=locality schon ganz gut. M.E. wäre es praktisch, solche Tags auch in den Straßenlistenabgleich mit einzubeziehen, ggf. auch nur in eine Abgleichrichtung (so daß in OSM eingetragene localities, die in der offiziellen Straßenliste fehlen, nicht angemeckert werden). Grüße, Philipp -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Strassenlistenabgleich-jetzt-in-Selbstbedienung-tp4472631p4631643.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Liste der Bots
Hallo, gibt es irgendwo eine Liste in der (einige | manche | viele) Bots, also deren verwendete userID, gelistet ist? Marco ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste der Bots
Am Donnerstag 25 Februar 2010 11:36:23 schrieb Marco Lechner - FOSSGIS e.V.: gibt es irgendwo eine Liste in der (einige | manche | viele) Bots, also deren verwendete userID, gelistet ist? Gefällt dir an http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bots irgendwas nicht? Gruß, Bernd -- Wer in einem gewissen Alter nicht merkt, daß er hauptsächlich von Idioten umgeben ist, merkt es aus einem gewissen Grunde nicht. - Curt Goetz (dt. Schriftsteller und Schauspieler 1888-1960) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Roll-Up für Messe
das RollUp ist bezahlt, produziert, abgeholt und wird am nächsten Montag auf die Reise von Bonn nach Osnabrück gehen. Marco Ulf Lamping schrieb: Am 10.02.2010 07:29, schrieb Torsten Breda: Am 10. Februar 2010 00:24 schrieb Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Am 10.02.2010 00:02, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Am 9. Februar 2010 22:35 schrieb Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Das sieht jetzt schon ziemlich gut aus. +1, sieht viel besser aus. Klasse gemacht Ulf! Vielen Dank! In wenigen Wochen können wir es dann ja live sehen. Dann erkennt man auch erst, wie sich die Qualität der Einzelteile auf das Endprodukt niederschlägt. (Und was man vielleicht in Zukunft besser machen kann.) Respekt! Danke für die Blumen! Vielen Dank für Freds und deinen Beitrag - ohne wäre es nicht gegangen. Ich bin jetzt auch mal wirklich gespannt, wie das dann letztendlich in 1*2m wirkt ... Gruß, ULFL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Werte fuer XY:urban XY:rural etc.
Hallo Stefan, hast Du auch vor, die richtungsabhängigen maxspeeds zu unterstützen, also maxspeed:forward=* maxspeed:backward=* Sind schon implementiert, scheinen auch zu funktionieren und werden in der (in den naechsten Tagen) erscheinenden Version 0.2.4 enthalten sein. Ich muss allerdings noch ein büschn testen. laut tagstat kommen sie zwar erst 117-mal vor, aber das könnte sich ändern! Das will ich stark hoffen. Gruesse Julian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Am 25. Februar 2010 11:25 schrieb 1248 1...@gmx.de: Walter Nordmann wrote: ich kenn mich zwar in Münster nicht aus, aber das müßte ein reales Kreuz (Denkmal, ...) sein. Zumindest auf dieser Karte, die wir ja eigentlich ... Dann kann man es natürlich taggen und das Problem Punkt mit Namen aus der Welt schaffen. Fragt mal nen Münsteraner - aber einen mit 2 Beinen ;-) Bin ja selber einer ;-) Wie oben gesagt, das Keuz exisitert auch, ist auch bei OSM eingetragen. Aber 1. dürfte dieses in dem hier besprochenen Straßenlistenabgleich nicht ausgewertet werden, und somit würde man immer eine angeblich fehlende Str. angezeigt bekommen. Und 2. gibt es eben nicht immer einen Gegenstand für einen Namen. Siehe mein zweites Beispiel: Aegidiitor. Dort ist nun nicht mal mehr ein einziger Stein des ehemaligen Tores übrig. Prinzipiell scheinen solche Fälle zwar selten zu sein, aber es gibt sie, und darum wäre es gut, wenn wir dafür eine einheitliche Lösung hätten. Ich fand ja den Vorschlag place=locality schon ganz gut. M.E. wäre es praktisch, solche Tags auch in den Straßenlistenabgleich mit einzubeziehen, ggf. auch nur in eine Abgleichrichtung (so daß in OSM eingetragene localities, die in der offiziellen Straßenliste fehlen, nicht angemeckert werden). Grüße, Philipp Es stehen sogar Gebäude in manchen Listen drin - imo ist eine Straßenliste einfach nicht korrekt, wenn da was anderes als Straßen drinstehen. Wenn es keine Straße mit entsprechendem Namen gibt, spricht nichts dagegen, die Straße aus der Liste zu löschen (mit Kommentar warum) und das Wegkreuz als solches mittels historic=wayside_cross einzutragen. Gruß Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] neue mapgen version 0.09 veröffentli cht
Am 24. Februar 2010 17:27 schrieb Gary68 g...@gary68.de: hallo martin, du müsstest das heruntergeladene gebiet zunächst mit osmosis und bounding box beschneiden, parameter clipincompleteentities o.ä. eine andere möglichkeit wäre, wenn du einen place=xy in der mitte der karte hast, die -place option und zusätzlich radien anzugeben. den notwendigen place= kannst du dir in deinem lokalen file ja auch beliebig anlegen. auch die bbox reduktion steht bei mir noch auf der todo liste... OK, dann komme ich wohl um Osmosis doch nicht herum ;-) Als ich es vor ein paar Monaten das letzte mal ausprobiert habe lief es leider gar nicht auf meinem debian sid, unter Windows Vista war es jedoch kein Problem, nur leider läuft das fast nie und umbooten ist nervig ;-). Ich werde alternativ mal versuchen, mit dem mkgmap splitter den geforderten Bereich mit einer kml-Datei zu übergeben und so aus einer größeren Datei auszuschneiden. An anderer Stelle funktioniert das ganz gut... die fehlermeldungen rühren von fehlenden daten her. also meint ein weg z.b., er besitze den node 123, aber 123 ist nicht in dem osm file. könnte ich abfangen, steht auf der todo liste... Ah, ok - es führt halt dazu, daß man die Informationen über das Papierformat am Anfang nicht mehr sieht. Ich werd einfach die komplette Ausgabe filtern. auf die höhenlinien musst du noch ein wenig warten! :-) Das ist kein Beinbruch ;-) Danke für die Aufklärung! -Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tauchen
Hallo Dimitri, Ja, OpenSeaMap ist auch ein Overlay. Es besteht aber aus gerenderten Kacheln Das bezweifel ich, wenn ich eines der Icons in Mozille mit rechts anklicke und Grafik anzeigen auswähle komme ich zu: http://map.openseamap.org/map/resources/places/marina_32.png und zwar für jede Marina - da werden Icons über den normalen Tiles plaziert nicht 2 Tiles übereinander. OpenSeaMap hat insgesamt 3 Overlays: 1. Seezeichen - Dies ist ein Tile-Layer (ab Z12) 2. Sport - Dies ist ein Tile-Layer (ab Z12) 3. Häfen - Dies ist ein POI Layer Die Marina-Icons gehören zu dem Hafen-Layer. Da hast du recht das sind keine Kacheln. Der Sport-Layer, der für die Tauchbasen interessant ist, besteht aus Kacheln. Beste Grüße Olaf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Liste der Bots
doch sehr hübsch gefällt mir ;-) Marco Bernd Wurst schrieb: Am Donnerstag 25 Februar 2010 11:36:23 schrieb Marco Lechner - FOSSGIS e.V.: gibt es irgendwo eine Liste in der (einige | manche | viele) Bots, also deren verwendete userID, gelistet ist? Gefällt dir an http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bots irgendwas nicht? Gruß, Bernd ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Am 25.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Andre Joost: Also NaviPOWM (kostenlos) z.B. sollte problemlos laufen. So richtig navigieren kann man aber mit dem doch auch (noch) nicht? Es gibt meines Wissens exakt eine Anwendung, die auf WinCE auf Basis von OSM-Karten routen kann. Aber das Ding läuft so, dass es hier nicht vermittelbar ist (siehe Betreff Für Anfänger) -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net wrote: Es gibt meines Wissens exakt eine Anwendung, die auf WinCE auf Basis von OSM-Karten routen kann. Das sieht auf anderen mobilen Plattformen kaum besser aus. Navit ist anscheinend nix für Anfänger (Achtung hörensagen!). Aber das Ding läuft so, dass es hier nicht vermittelbar ist (siehe Betreff Für Anfänger) Außer OSM-Garminkarten gibt es IMO derzeit nichts in dieser Kathegorie. Sven -- TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners (Man-page uubp(1C) on Debian/GNU Linux) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Sven Geggus schrieb: Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net wrote: Es gibt meines Wissens exakt eine Anwendung, die auf WinCE auf Basis von OSM-Karten routen kann. Das sieht auf anderen mobilen Plattformen kaum besser aus. Navit ist anscheinend nix für Anfänger (Achtung hörensagen!). Nee, passt schon. ich habe jetzt beim X.ten Versuch grade mal eine Karte zur Anzeige bekommen. Start und Zielkoordinaten habe ich auch schon eingeben können, danach verabschiedet sich das Programm (hier die Winxp-Version). Hat jemand mit gosmore Erfolge erzielt? Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mehr Karten auf der Homepage?
Am 24. Februar 2010 06:33 schrieb Andreas Labres l...@lab.at: Also mein Bedarf, diese rüde Sprache in seitenlangem Englisch zu lesen, hält sich in Grenzen. ;-) Ich fände es aber gut, die dort angesprochenen Punkte auch hier zu diskutieren. hm, vermutlich wäre die Sichtbarkeit im engl. Thread allerdings deutlich höher... Na gut, lasse ich mich doch hinreissen, hier was dazu zu posten: Ja, in der Höhe was wegzunehmen halte ich auch nicht für sinnvoll. Meine Wunschliste ist eher: - Routing unkompliziert von der Startseite aus (z.B. solange es nichts eigenes gibt auch über ORS wobei der Kartenausschnitt der Verlinkung dem der aufrufenden Seite entsprechen sollte) - Marker einfach setzen (habe zwar persönlich kein Problem damit, aber es scheint ja doch ein Thema zu sein) - Einen schlichten Editor, wo man die Lage von Objekten nicht ändern kann, sondern nur Namen korrigieren und POIs (nodes) eintragen (schlicht halt) - Namefinder-Suchfeld weiter oben - unter dem Plus mehr alternative Karten anbieten (von Community-Projekten, diese sofern sie nicht weltweit angeboten sind, könnte man auch je nach Ausschnitt anpassen) - unter Edit verschiedene Editoren anbieten - das Ganze jeweils reduzieren (also damit man nicht von langen Listen erschlagen wird jeweils zusätzlich einen Button weitere Optionen wo man dann zum entspr. Thema die weiteren Links/Optionen bekommt). Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Hallo! (aus gegebenen Anlass ;-)). Ich bin seit einiger Zeit an der Entwicklung von libosmscout (http://libosmscout.sf.net). Ziel dieser Entwicklung ist das Bereitstellen von Basisfunktionalitäten für offline-fähige Navgiationssoftware. Dies beinhaltet das Zeichnen von Karten, das Suchen von Karteninhalten sowie Routing. Performance und Hauptspeicherverbrauch sollten der Ausstattung von entsprechenden mobilen Geräten angemessen sein. Es handelt sich hierbei nicht um die Entwicklung einer Navigationssoftware, sondern nur um die entsprechenden Basisdienste. Mit einer entsprechenden Bibliothek sollte aber das Entwicklen einer entsprechenden Applikation erheblich einfacher (aber sicherlich nicht einfach) sein. Weitere Informationen auf der Homepage (Screenshots, Video). Die aktuellen Anforderungen bzgl. des Betriebssystems sind realtiv gering (C++, xml-Parser, für Karten libcairo), eine Nutzung damit auch unter Windows, iXXX und Symbian prinzipiell möglich (mein Ziel ist Nokias maemo/bzw. Nokias und Intels MeeGo Plattform). Für dieses Projekt suche ich noch Hilfe. Bei Fragen/Interesse bitte an mich wenden :-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Tim Teulings r...@edge.ping.de wrote: Für dieses Projekt suche ich noch Hilfe. Bei Fragen/Interesse bitte an mich wenden :-) Wäre es vielleicht sinnvoll einen Lightning Talk auf der FOSSGIS zu machen? Siehe Mail von Fred! Gruss Sven -- All bugs added by David S. Miller da...@redhat.com Linux Kernel boot message from /usr/src/linux/net/8021q/vlan.c /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Hallo! Für dieses Projekt suche ich noch Hilfe. Bei Fragen/Interesse bitte an mich wenden :-) Wäre es vielleicht sinnvoll einen Lightning Talk auf der FOSSGIS zu machen? Siehe Mail von Fred! Darüber habe ich sogar schon nachgedacht. Bonn-Osnabrück ist auch prinzipiell machbar, aber auf der Abreit geht es gerade drunter und drüber, so daß ich vermutlich nicht einen Tag freibekommen werde :-/ Ich habe aber kein Problem jemand anderes entsprechend zu briefen ;-) -- Gruß... Tim ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] FOSSGIS/OSM-Konferenz: Anmeldung noch bis 2 6.Februar möglich
Gehling Marc glaubte zu wissen: Am 24.02.2010 um 15:39 schrieb Florian Gross: Mirko Küster glaubte zu wissen: Es geht hier um Massenmails die für eine Veranstaltung innerhalb des Projektes werben zu dem sich der Benutzer selbst angemeldet hat! Derzeit gibt es den Schalter Informiere mich über Veranstaltungen noch nicht, aber ich finde, dass man den im Rahmen einer Anmeldung durchaus per default auf on schalten kann. Das wäre für mich ein Grund, mails von Openstreetmap direkt in den Mülleimer aussortieren zu lassen. Nur weil ich mal einen Weg oder eine Relation 700km weiter repariert habe, will ich nicht dauernd e-mails über irgendwelche Treffen usw. dort erhalten. Falscher Gedanke. Du wirst nur angeschrieben, wenn du deine Heimat-Geokoordinaten gesetzt hast und die in der Ortsrelation liegen. Falscher Gedanke: Ich möchte nur angeschrieben werden, wenn ich meine Zustimmung dafür gebe (Opt-In) und will nicht jedesmal hinterrennen und mich austragen müssen, wenn einem mal wieder der Finger juckt. Sowas würde mich nerven und ich pflege Dinge, die mich nerven nach Möglichkeit dauerhauft abzustellen, z.B. durch einen entsprechenden Filtereintrag, der dazu führen würde, daß ich nicht mehr über osm.org angeschrieben werden könnte (oder: s.u.). Oder ich stecke meine Zeit in andere Projekte, bei denen das nicht so gehandhabt wird. Wenn es nach Geokoordinaten geht, könnte ich auch den Nordpol eintragen. Sorry, mit solchem Schrott werde ich oft genug belästigt. Ich bin alt genug, mir auszusuchen, zu welchem Thema ich Informationen zugesandt haben möchte. Sammel das Zeug wegen mir auf einer Wiki-Seite mit einfacher Anmeldemöglichkeit, mach eine Announce- Liste auf o.ä. aber schick mir solches Zeug nicht unverlangt zu. Sowas betrachte ich als SPAM und ich werde entsprechend agieren, um das abzustellen. Und zwar nicht, indem ich zig Häckchen irgendwo lösche, die ohne meine Erlaubnis gesetzt wurden. Nein, ich mach da richtig Ärger beim Provider usw. um meine Ruhe zu haben. War das verständlich oder muß ich mein NEIN! deutlicher deutlicher ausdrücken? flo -- Was ich immer wieder fazinierend finde, ist, daß in dem scheinbaren Chaos der Bahn ein Wissender eine Art Ordnung entdecken kann. Das Chaos kommt _wegen_ der Ordnung. [Alexander Stielau und Hans Bonfigt in dasr] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] neue mapgen version 0.09 veröffentli cht
hi. problem ist auch noch, dass ich keine wege mit nur einem knoten akzeptiere, diese dann aber in relationen gebraucht werden könnten. mal sehen. das mit den höhenlinien sollte eigentlich kein problem sein. denke ich. es gibt ja höhenlinien im osm format, oder? und osmosis müsste die zu den anderen daten mischen können. und dann wären es normale wege, die gezeichnet und beschriftet werden... ciao gehard On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 13:48 +0100, Martin Simon wrote: Am 24. Februar 2010 17:27 schrieb Gary68 g...@gary68.de: hallo martin, du müsstest das heruntergeladene gebiet zunächst mit osmosis und bounding box beschneiden, parameter clipincompleteentities o.ä. eine andere möglichkeit wäre, wenn du einen place=xy in der mitte der karte hast, die -place option und zusätzlich radien anzugeben. den notwendigen place= kannst du dir in deinem lokalen file ja auch beliebig anlegen. auch die bbox reduktion steht bei mir noch auf der todo liste... OK, dann komme ich wohl um Osmosis doch nicht herum ;-) Als ich es vor ein paar Monaten das letzte mal ausprobiert habe lief es leider gar nicht auf meinem debian sid, unter Windows Vista war es jedoch kein Problem, nur leider läuft das fast nie und umbooten ist nervig ;-). Ich werde alternativ mal versuchen, mit dem mkgmap splitter den geforderten Bereich mit einer kml-Datei zu übergeben und so aus einer größeren Datei auszuschneiden. An anderer Stelle funktioniert das ganz gut... die fehlermeldungen rühren von fehlenden daten her. also meint ein weg z.b., er besitze den node 123, aber 123 ist nicht in dem osm file. könnte ich abfangen, steht auf der todo liste... Ah, ok - es führt halt dazu, daß man die Informationen über das Papierformat am Anfang nicht mehr sieht. Ich werd einfach die komplette Ausgabe filtern. auf die höhenlinien musst du noch ein wenig warten! :-) Das ist kein Beinbruch ;-) Danke für die Aufklärung! -Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Guten Morgen André! Dann habe ich ja Glück: WinCE scheint zu den verbreiteten OS zu gehören. Im Prinzip schon, nur ist dein Core-Version eine abgespeckte Version, die nur diejenigen Treiber hat, die dein Hersteller für seine Software braucht. Verstehe. Aber man könnte doch einfach eine aktuellere OS-Version aufspielen? Oder die für OSM erforderlichen Treiber nachrüsten? Wo bekomme ich die? wie mache ich das? Unterschiede der Versionen findest du hier: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/de-de/products/readyproducts/navready/component-library.mspx Oh - wenn ich das alles richtig verstehe, habe ich da nicht nur ein Navi geschenkt bekommen, sondern einen fast vollwertigen Mini-PC?! ich bin den umgekehrten Weg gegangen: Auch dieser Weg ist für Anfänger interessant. Ein How-To im Wiki wäre hilfreich. Probier einfach mal alle Programme in der Wiki-Seite aus. Wie mache ich das? (vermute mal, dazu müsste ich erst die vorhandene SW+Daten irgendwie sichern? und dann neue SW irgendwie aufspielen? und dann OSM irgendwie laden? und dann die Kombination irgendwie testen? - Und ich vermute, das haben erfahrene OSMer alles schon gemacht und ich brauche (als Anfänger) nicht ein eigenen Jugend forscht-Projekt starten?) So 100% vollständig sind die OSM-Daten nämlich noch nicht navitauglich (insbesondere auf dem Land) Also die Strassen in OSM sind wesentlich vollständiger (in meiner Gegend) als diejenigen in meinem neuen PNA. Aber Du hast recht: Abbigeverbote habe ich noch nie erfasst, weil ich deren Bedeutung bisher nicht verstanden hatte, sondern dachte das sieht man ja. Werde mich bessern - versprochen! Da gibt es sicher ein cooles Tool, mit dem ich Abbiegeverbote mit meinem neuen WinCE-PNA unterwegs erfassen kann? Dann könnte ich auch gleich Durchfahrtshöhen und Achslasten mitschreiben. Dazu mache ich aber mal einen neuen Thread. Hier geht es mir darum, OSM auf mein PNA zu kriegen... Gruss, Markus Straßen, Einbahnregelungen und Abbiegeverbote noch nicht komplett drin sind. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] neue mapgen version 0.09 veröffentli cht
osm.pm akzeptiert keine negativen ids... wo kommen die her? uninitialisierte werte lassen drauf schließen, dass referenzierte objekte fehlen. On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 18:38 +0100, Johann H. Addicks wrote: Am 25.02.2010 16:44, schrieb Gary68: problem ist auch noch, dass ich keine wege mit nur einem knoten akzeptiere, diese dann aber in relationen gebraucht werden könnten. mal sehen. Was für Ein Problem hat mapgen eigentlich, wenn es in einer Endlosschleife(?) hängt und unendlich oft folgendes auf die Fehlerkonsole wirft? (Datei stammt aus Josm und Kosmos verarbeitet die auch brav) Use of uninitialized value in numeric ne (!=) at mapgen.pl line 477, $file line 384. Use of uninitialized value in numeric ne (!=) at mapgen.pl line 477, $file line 384. Use of uninitialized value in hash element at mapgen.pl line 472, $file line 384. Use of uninitialized value in hash element at mapgen.pl line 473, $file line 384. Use of uninitialized value in hash element at mapgen.pl line 474, $file line 384. WARNING reading osm file, line follows (expecting id, lon, lat and user for node): node id='-2461' action='modify' visible='true' lat='50.134733921850454' lon='8.57232050992306' -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Hallo André, Hat jemand mit gosmore Erfolge erzielt? Was verstehst du unter Erfolgen? Also bei mir läuft es. Aber der Routingalgorithmus ist meines Erachtens nicht der beste. Jedenfalls bin ich damit nicht so ganz zufrieden. Vom Layout/Rendering und der Benutzerfreundlichkeit möchte ich gar nicht erst sprechen. Aber man kann sich mit gosmore navigieren lassen. Ich glaube da wird auch nicht mehr entwickelt. Bei Navipowm ist ja ein Routing geplant http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/navipowm/index.php?title=NaviPOWM_Milestones mal schaun wann es was wird. -- schönen Gruß Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Kurzanleitung zum Erstellen von routingf ähigen Karten von Inseln mit Meer drumrum
Hi Torsten! Die Verwendung mehrer Layer hat verschiedene Vorzuege: Klar hast Du damit Recht, nur die Sache ist die: Ein Anfänger ist erstmal überfordert mit der ganzen Fülle von Möglichkeiten. Es ist schon schwer genug, die basics erstmal zu verstehen. Deshalb war ich ja so begeistert von Carlos' Anleitung: Denn sie ist kurz genug um auch von einem Anfänger wie mir überblickt zu werden und sie liefert Meer. ;-) Das war mir natürlich auch recht wichtig, denn Urlaub auf einer kleinen Insel ist doof, wenn Du auf der Karte das Meer nicht siehst. Viele Grüße von Dani ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Edit in Josm, Greasemonkey-Script von Matteo Gottardi
Hallo Liste, habe gerade das Greasemonkey-Script von Matteo Gottardi ausprobiert, es erzeugt auf openstreetmap.org unten rechts unterhalb von Permalink einen Link Edit in Josm. Damit das auch funktioniert muss natürlich JOSM laufen und dort das Remote-Plugin installiert sein. Das Script findet Ihr hier: http://www.gomatteo.net/openstreetmap.user.js Gruß Martin PS: Wer mit dem Wort Greasemonkey nichts anfangen kann: das ist ein Firefox-Addon, mit welchem man eigene Scripte im Firefox benutzen kann. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
Markus schrieb: Dann habe ich ja Glück: WinCE scheint zu den verbreiteten OS zu gehören. Im Prinzip schon, nur ist dein Core-Version eine abgespeckte Version, die nur diejenigen Treiber hat, die dein Hersteller für seine Software braucht. Verstehe. Aber man könnte doch einfach eine aktuellere OS-Version aufspielen? Auf normalen PCs kein Problem, aber Windows mobile liegt teilweise im ROM, und da kommst du als Anfänger so leicht nicht dran. Theoretisch kann man auch linux drauf spielen... Oder die für OSM erforderlichen Treiber nachrüsten? Wo bekomme ich die? wie mache ich das? Dazu haben andere ja schon einiges geschrieben. So einfach wird es für dich nicht sein. Unterschiede der Versionen findest du hier: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/de-de/products/readyproducts/navready/component-library.mspx Oh - wenn ich das alles richtig verstehe, habe ich da nicht nur ein Navi geschenkt bekommen, sondern einen fast vollwertigen Mini-PC?! Ja, mit der Betonung auf fast ;-) Probier einfach mal alle Programme in der Wiki-Seite aus. Wie mache ich das? (vermute mal, dazu müsste ich erst die vorhandene SW+Daten irgendwie sichern? und dann neue SW irgendwie aufspielen? und dann OSM irgendwie laden? und dann die Kombination irgendwie testen? Alte und neue Software sollten nebeneinader existieren können, solange Speicherplatz vorhanden ist. Jedes Programm hat seine eigene Art, OSM-Daten zu nutzen. Das Kartenmaterial kann schon mal 1GB groß werden, also sollte man gleich auf SD installieren. Dazu mache ich aber mal einen neuen Thread. Komischerweise kam der hier wesentlich eher an als obige mail. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Routing auf Navi für Anfänger
geo.osm schrieb: Hallo André, Hat jemand mit gosmore Erfolge erzielt? Was verstehst du unter Erfolgen? Also bei mir läuft es. Aber der Routingalgorithmus ist meines Erachtens nicht der beste. Jedenfalls bin ich damit nicht so ganz zufrieden. Vom Layout/Rendering und der Benutzerfreundlichkeit möchte ich gar nicht erst sprechen. Wohl war. Frickelware ohne intuitive Benutzungsmöglichkeit und ohne anfängerfreundliche Doku. Immerhin bin ich jetzt soweit, dass die Optionen auf deutsch und das GPS-Modul auf Empfang geht. Aber man kann sich mit gosmore navigieren lassen. Ich glaube da wird auch nicht mehr entwickelt. Schade. Bei Navipowm ist ja ein Routing geplant Taj, das hilft nur im Moment nicht weiter. Navit existiert ja auch noch, leidet aber unter den gleichen Handicaps. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
