Re: [Talk-GB] Virgin Train Traces (Richard Mann)
John McKerrell wrote: I've now emailed, no idea if they'll come back with anything, I think it's a case of this guy goes to the marketing department and they say how much press could we get off this and how much effort would it take. As the amount of press is probably minimal I'm not going to get my hopes up but I thought I'd ask him anyway. Is it worth discussing this with RMT (http://www.rmt.org.uk/) and see if they can get their members (specifically train drivers) to carry loan GPS units with them? I can see RMT gaining more publicity over this than any of the train operators would. Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest
I've been thinking about this for a while. Is he doing anything (legally) wrong? Is he always connecting from the same IP address? Can the login script be amended to point suspect users to a You've been dicking about with the map - we're going to let you continue in the hope that at some point you're going to mature into somebody who wants to be helpful rather than a pain in the backside page? Presumably his IP address is known... Can somebody contact his ISP and get them to do something or forward a letter? Chances are that if it's a kid, mummy and daddy are paying for the Internet connection. Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] UK government postcode/geolocation/nhs information leaked
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/UK_government_database_of_all_1,841,177_post_codes_together_with_precise_geographic_coordinates_and_other_information,_8_Jul_2009 Shame we can't make use of it! Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] English chapter
Chris Hill wrote: What is the point of local chapters in England? We don't have language conversion issues, currency issues or time zone issues. Well, there is the issue of some very strange regional accents and dialects. ;-) Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Liam123 again
Tom Hughes wrote: Well it will have to go to the WG for that. They will doubtless start by sending him a direct email. Is it just me who thinks that having a wiki which is open to everybody and doesn't have any controls over who can do what is utterly ludicrous? Yes, I'm a trusting soul, but even I think there ought to be limits. The thing which worries me most is that how can we expect organisations to take OSM seriously when we cannot be sure that the information in it isn't garbage and even when we do find garbage, we do nothing about making sure it doesn't happen again. The only reason we found out about Liam123 was because somebody said This doesn't look right to me. How do we know there isn't another user who's messing about with things somewhere else? To my mind, nobody ought to be able to edit live map data unless: 1 - They have uploaded n tracks, 2 - They have had m edits approved by a moderator 3 - They are vouched for by somebody who has made many many edits (insert 'and' or 'or' or 'and/or' as appropriate) Anyway. Another thought occurred to me. If I were Liam123, I'd be signed up to the mailing lists - where's the fun in distrubing the ants nest if you don't get to see the ants scurrying about trying to repair things? In that case, I'd say Hello Liam123. If you would like to do something constructive, my money's betting that every single person on this list would like to help you help us. Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Liam123 again
Frederik Ramm wrote: No, millions of Wikipedia contributors think it is a good thing (and they even allow edits from people without an account) ;-) Point taken, but Wikipedia isn't trying to position itself as a viable and reliable alternative for a mission critical commercial solution (I'm thinking about mapping for SatNav devices here). Sure, Wikipedia is the first place people go to, but anybody worth their salt will *always* check 'facts' with another resource if it is important. How many people do you know who carry two SatNavs with them in case the data on one of them is incorrect? I'd also argue that information on Wikipedia can be very easily reverted when a rogue edit is discovered. Because of the nature of the data, one can't just revert an OSM edit without causing more problems as a result (if we could, we wouldn't be having this discussion and Liam123 wouldn't be a problem). Comparing OSM and Wikipedia socially, technically or commercially just doesn't work, IMHO. The only reason we found out about Liam123 was because somebody said This doesn't look right to me. How do we know there isn't another user who's messing about with things somewhere else? We don't. Indeed. FWIW, my answer would be We don't and there probably is. To my mind, nobody ought to be able to edit live map data unless: snip A rather draconian way of reducing the freedom of contributors. We *do* want to give newcomers the rewarding experience of fixing a bug and seeing it fixed on the map more or less immediately. Understood, but if OSM is ever to be taken seriously there needs to be more control. Without control, OSM is a toy. Note that I enjoy playing with OSM. I'm talking about the bigger picture. A moderator approving something is surely the last thing we want (or can handle technically for that matter). Understood. But there must be an effective way to stop this happening. What happens if there are 100 Liam123's appearing during the school holidays this summer? 100 would seriously trash the database wouldn't they? How would 100 be dealt with? At the moment we're lucky it's only one. Actually, another thought occurs to me... If I were Liam123, hell bent on trashing the database, I'd have two or more accounts - one headline one in which big edits will be made and the other ones for making lots and lots of small edits. This way, the firefighting would be on the big edits, but the damage would really be done by the massive number of small edits. Nick. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Seems to me that everybody replying thinks that there ought to be some sort of framework for mass changes and I'll go along with that too. However, the OP raised an interesting point... Frederik Ramm wrote: One example to which I took exception is ... changing Strasse in the name to Straße, which is the correct spelling (but nonetheless Strasse is often found on signs). Straße may well be the correct spelling in German speaking countries, but it certainly isn't in the UK. (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7998lon=-1.75262zoom=17layers=B000FTF). I was at the Bradford Mapping Party this weekend (which is how I spotted 'Hamm Strasse' - see link above). One of the guys there commented that after he spent some time mapping an area called 'Batley Carr', some numbskull thought it would be a good idea to correct all the misspellings of 'car' and changed every single reference. I have no evidence that either of these changes were applied globally, but all it takes is for some blinkered xenophobe to decide that everybody ought to use their character set, language rules and dictionary and we're in a right mess. Anyway, rant over. Nick. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Restaurants/Fast Food
Ed Loach wrote: Is it only me that finds these two classifications a bit limiting? No. amenity=restaurant takeaway=yes/no drive_thru=yes/no delivery=yes/no and where you can't eat in amenity=takeaway drive_thru=yes/no delivery=yes/no What about: amenity=food eatin=yes/no takewaway=yes/no drivethrough=yes/no delivery=yes/no fastfood=yes/no foodtype=FREEFORM (e.g. 'chinese', 'indian', 'chicken', 'tasteless cardboard' etc.) Mind you, is it really worth capturing this information? Nick. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
