Re: [Talk-it-southtyrol] Import South Tyrol house numbers in OSM
Hello, since you are going to discuss the address import tomorrow at the OpenGisData.eu mappers meeting, and I can't be there in person, I'll give you some comments here: 1. Less is more * addr:full tags I'd just drop the addr:full:* tags, they are of no use here. * addr:country tags Drop the addr:country tags, too. This is overly redundant in my opinion. The only place where this data may come in handy would be for addresses that are very near to the border, but in those cases the addr:country could be added by the mapper during the import, if one thinks that it makes sense. * addr:source tags Drop those. It's good enough to tag the source on the changesets (and the import wiki pages). No need for a source tag on every imported datum. 2. Address tagging I think we've talked about this already [1], but addresses in South Tyrol are of two different kinds: a) street-based or b) place-based. If it is street-based, the addr:street tag must be used (and if available, an addr:hamlet can be used optionally to indicate the Fraktion/frazione of the address). On the other hand, if an address is place-based the addr:place tag must be used and there must be no addr:street tag. Looking at the test data for Martell, I see that all addresses are converted as street-based ones, which is incorrect as most (or all?) of them are actually place-based addresses. (See how the addresses in Martell are currently tagged.) I know that the WEGE-DB doesn't directly have this data (and that the data is quite inconsistent from one municipality to the next). But that doesn't mean that you can import this incomplete data into OSM. The solution to this problem is either to program some kind of heuristic that takes nearby places into account, or to let mappers decide before or during the import (this approach would require a more elaborate importing procedure rather than just providing 3 .osm files to import with JOSM). 3. addr:aa2osmid I think we've talked about this, too. Why do you need other ids to represent already unique identifiers? While having external IDs (like GTFS stuff, TMC, Gemeindekennzahl, etc.) in OSM is quite bad in principle, this particular ID is even worse: There is no accessible external dataset to which these IDs correspond to, nobody other than you can check if they are still correct, no mapper can know what to put in if new addresses are mapped on the ground or if errors are being corrected, etc… Also, see point number 1 above (less is more). I don't see how this field should be necessary in the future. Please show me one use-case where this ID is necessary. Until then I'm strongly against importing this field. 4. Announce internationally Please note that you will have to announce this import also on the international @imports [2] mailing list. In the last few months there have been several other address import proposals which were all heavily discussed. Best regards, Martin [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AltoAdige_-_Südtirol/OpenGisData_HouseNumber_Import2#OSM_tags [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports ___ Talk-it-southtyrol mailing list Talk-it-southtyrol@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it-southtyrol
Re: [Talk-it-southtyrol] Import South Tyrol house numbers in OSM
Ciao Pietro! I'd just drop the addr:full:* tags, they are of no use here. I don't understand: need to drop only addr:full:it and the addr:full:de and taking the addr:full or need to drop addr:full too? Drop all of them. From the OSM wiki: “Use [addr:full] for [an] address if you find the structured address fields unsuitable for denoting the address of this particular location.” This doesn't apply to any address in the WEGE DB as far as I know. 2. Address tagging I think we've talked about this already [1], but addresses in South Tyrol are of two different kinds: a) street-based or b) place-based. The kinds are 3: a) street-based, b) place-based c) both Really? How does c) look like in real life? Do you have an example? Looking at the test data for Martell, I see that all addresses are converted as street-based ones, which is incorrect as most (or all?) of them are actually place-based addresses. (See how the addresses in Martell are currently tagged.) I pay many attenction about this question: In the Wege DB there are no place-based addresses in Martell. This is not an error. All the actually place-based addresses are incorrect. I say this because in the other municipality (for example Bressanone) the place-based addresses are correct. But i'm going to check this problem within tomorrow I do honestly doubt that. The user who originally mapped the existing addresses in Martell told me that there are no road names in Martell. (One can easily confirm this by looking around the town in google streetview. Also, look at the supposedly street names: Meiern, Ennetal, Sonnenberg, Gand, … those don't sound like street names, do they?) For OSM the situation is quite clear: If there are no street signs, the roads are unnamed. If the roads are unnamed, one cannot use addr:street to reference these. I cannot help but to assume that either the WEGE-DB contains slightly wrong data or describes slightly different things than what we would like to describe in OSM. 3. addr:aa2osmid […] […] but if you say that this ID is not necessary, i will drop it. Huh. I ask you: Why did you want to import it in the first place? It was you who proposed this field on the import-plan, wasn't you? Best wishes, Martin ___ Talk-it-southtyrol mailing list Talk-it-southtyrol@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it-southtyrol
Re: [Talk-it-southtyrol] Import South Tyrol house numbers in OSM
Il 30/01/2014 18:25, Martin Raifer ha scritto: Ciao Pietro! I'd just drop the addr:full:* tags, they are of no use here. I don't understand: need to drop only addr:full:it and the addr:full:de and taking the addr:full or need to drop addr:full too? Drop all of them. From the OSM wiki: “Use [addr:full] for [an] address if you find the structured address fields unsuitable for denoting the address of this particular location.” This doesn't apply to any address in the WEGE DB as far as I know. You are right. Ok I drop all the addr:full* tags 2. Address tagging I think we've talked about this already [1], but addresses in South Tyrol are of two different kinds: a) street-based or b) place-based. The kinds are 3: a) street-based, b) place-based c) both Really? How does c) look like in real life? Do you have an example? I see one example in Bressanone: In the city of Bressanone does exists Via Vinzenz Goller. But in the same municipality of Bressanone, in the Fraction of S. Andrea, does exists the same street Via Vinzenz Goller. Also the full address are: Bressanone, Via Vinzenz Goller, 1 and Bressanone, Fraz. S. Andrea, Via Vinzenz Goller, 1. I am absolutely sure about this question (i have worked with the house numbers of Bressanone for my company): by not taking the combination place-based+street-based there are duplicate house numbers in the Bressanone municipality. If you search on Google Maps bressanone vinzenz goller you can see two results too. Looking at the test data for Martell, I see that all addresses are converted as street-based ones, which is incorrect as most (or all?) of them are actually place-based addresses. (See how the addresses in Martell are currently tagged.) I pay many attenction about this question: In the Wege DB there are no place-based addresses in Martell. This is not an error. All the actually place-based addresses are incorrect. I say this because in the other municipality (for example Bressanone) the place-based addresses are correct. But i'm going to check this problem within tomorrow I do honestly doubt that. The user who originally mapped the existing addresses in Martell told me that there are no road names in Martell. (One can easily confirm this by looking around the town in google streetview. Also, look at the supposedly street names: Meiern, Ennetal, Sonnenberg, Gand, … those don't sound like street names, do they?) For OSM the situation is quite clear: If there are no street signs, the roads are unnamed. If the roads are unnamed, one cannot use addr:street to reference these. I cannot help but to assume that either the WEGE-DB contains slightly wrong data or describes slightly different things than what we would like to describe in OSM. Last evening i have watch on streete view too. You are right. In martello there are no street. I hope I can find a solution about this problem. 3. addr:aa2osmid […] […] but if you say that this ID is not necessary, i will drop it. Huh. I ask you: Why did you want to import it in the first place? It was you who proposed this field on the import-plan, wasn't you? At this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AltoAdige_-_S%C3%BCdtirol/OpenGISData_House_Number_Import I read ath the point 7: Each address got a cryptic project-ID that is practically unmaintainable by a mapper Also i have think that a non-cryptic ID are necessary. Best wishes, Martin ___ Talk-it-southtyrol mailing list Talk-it-southtyrol@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it-southtyrol
