[Talk-transit] Tools for viewing and dealing with the NaPTAN data...
I now have lots of great bus stop data in Suffolk and I want to check it and sort out any issues. However I am getting a bit lost re which tools are available to help check and improve the NaPTAN data and NPTG data in OSM. Could someone add brief description and links to the wiki? They could be added as a new section on the main naptan page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN Regards, Peter Miller ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Weird stations in the UK (as shown on Google maps)
Hi Peter, Nice work! Just goes to show some of the advantages of OSM - we can fix the data relatively quickly. Incidentally, according to Wikipedia Bank and Monument tube stations are treated operationally as one complex (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_and_Monument_stations), however on Google Maps they are shown separately: http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8ll=51.511694,-0.08656spn=0.005649,0.024462z=16 When tagging, I think we should generally follow the 'rule of ground' and tag what people perceive to be separate stations (eg most people would think of St Pancras as a single station). Frankie On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: We have been doing some work for National Rail and this has highlighted a bunch of weirdnesses about what is a railway station and what is not a railway station. Some of weirdnesses are down to problems with data, but others show up operational issues. I have been proposing a more comprehensive model for complex interchanges within OSM and in might be interesting to see how one would map some of these onto this model (or not in the case of data errors. [1] I am showing that many of the problems also appear on Google Maps who also use NaPTAN. The images are in the set 'weird stations' ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/sets/72157621968445655/ ) Reading Station, or Reading Stations? In NaPTAN and in Google there are two Reading stations[2]. The reason evidently is that for operation reasons the station is treated as two stations with the 'The Waterloo part of Reading is a separately coded rail station'. This does however seem weird on information displayed to the public. Curiously Clapham Junction station is divided into four stations for operational reasons but Google only shows one - possibly it deals with it as a special case as there are four stations in NaPTAN. There are two additional stations close to Albany Park Station (nr Sidcup) on Google Maps.[3] This is because two bus stops have incorrectly be coded as railways stations (and incidentally means we are likely to be 2 bus stops light on the import of the county). The data owner has been notified and this error should be fixed reasonably soon. There are two railway stations shown for Heathrow. One is actually a coach station from which 'RailAir' coaches operate so it is not really a railway station at all.[4] There are four station in the King's Cross/ St Pancras on Google[5]. Two for St Pancras station, one for King's Cross Station and then one for King's Cross/St Pancras. NaPTAN does have two stations for St Pancras (possibly the international section is treated as a separate station for operational reasons) but only seems to have one for King's Cross Station in NaPTAN. I am not sure where the combined one on Google has come from but it does possibly make sense to present them as a single station at some zoom levels. Finally, there is a mainline station shown for Newbury Park as well as an underground station on Google and in NaPTAN[6] even though it appears to be on the Central line with no connection to mainline services and the station doesn't appear in a station search on the National Rail website. Is this another NaPTAN mistake? [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Stop_Place [2] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3839787944 [3] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3839198147/in/set-72157621968445655/ [4] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3839198227 [5] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3838985737/ [6] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3839310795/ ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Weird stations in the UK (as shown on Google maps)
Peter wrote: Finally, there is a mainline station shown for Newbury Park as well as an underground station on Google and in NaPTAN[6] even though it appears to be on the Central line with no connection to mainline services and the station doesn't appear in a station search on the National Rail website. Is this another NaPTAN mistake? [6] http://www.flickr.com/photos/petereastern/3839310795/ Google suggests there used to be a main line station there: http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Newbury_Park.html and Wikipedia agrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbury_Park_tube_station My wife was there earlier this week. I think they've a fairly big bus area outside the station exit, but I don’t think there is a mainline station there now. Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Weird stations in the UK (as shown on Google maps)
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: There are four station in the King's Cross/ St Pancras on Google[5]. Two for St Pancras station, one for King's Cross Station and then one for King's Cross/St Pancras. NaPTAN does have two stations for St Pancras (possibly the international section is treated as a separate station for operational reasons) but only seems to have one for King's Cross Station in NaPTAN. I am not sure where the combined one on Google has come from but it does possibly make sense to present them as a single station at some zoom levels. Is Kings Cross St. Pancras tube station part of the same station complex as St Pancras International/Domestic, I wonder? On the ground, I'd have said yes, but it's really mainly the name that connects, seeing as it's equally well connected physically with both St Pancras rail station and Kings Cross rail station. Mind you, I've always found Kings Cross to be confusing on the ground too - once almost missed my train by not realising that I needed Kings Cross Thameslink rather than Kings Cross. Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Weird stations in the UK (as shown on Google maps)
Various comments on these: 1. Reading. If Heathrow Rail-air is shown, shouldn't the Reading end be shown? 2. St. Pancras is indeed two stations. Midland Main Line services depart from platforms at the far-end of the main train shed, has separate ticketing etc.. The 'interchange' between this and the Underground is quite a decent walk, although nothing like as bad as it was before the International station opened. There is a set of platforms under the main-line station (used to be Thameslink), but as I've never used them don't know their status, other than for the traveller they're quite distinct. 3. I thought the extra Kings-X might be the local line to Royston and Cambridge, which used to be pretty disjunct from the rest of Kings-X, but on the map it looks like the underground station has been rewarded with the old British Rail symbol to signify an interchange, but this isn't true of some of the dubious interchange stations (e.g., Euston Square). 4. I think RailAir is a typical exception which one has to live with. There are plenty of railways where some services are operated by buses which depart from a separate location. However, ticketing etc is entirely in the hands of the railway operator. For instance the line to Skegness has Mablethorpe on the timetable described as a rail-replacement bus (although I think the railway line has been disused for 40-odd years). Hope this adds grist to the mill! ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
