Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
Hello, thank you for trying the plugin. Cool. So far I've seen a new menu item Public transport having appearing in my main menu. Anything else to discover? No, that's all so far. At the moment, the plugin facilitates to build bus services when the underlying streets and bus stops already exist. This wizard can be accessed via the menu item in this menu. A second wizard should simplify adding bus stops such that one can map them by just going by a particular bus line with a gps logger in the pocket plus some mouse clicks. But I think, I should rather complete the first wizard, then start the second. If you were asking for a wishlist: Double-click routes or stops should actually select the relation/node and center the editor's view on the latter. Do you mean Double-click on stops on the map should center the stop in the editor window. Or double click in the editor should center the map to the item? How are routes (i.e. relations) visible in the map (I have not found them?) What's the Tags-tab used for? It's empty when I loaded my Leipzig public transport data. I'm sorry, the tags tab is not yet implemented. I'll do this next, but one has to use the standard relation editor as a replacement for the moment. I haven't discovered yet how the Suggest stops feature works. The idea behind this is that adding an itinerary and adding the bus stops for a certain service means to do essentially twice the same thing. Generating the bus stops automatically from a given itinerary is easier than the other way round. Thus, this is implemented so far. The algorithm takes the given itinerary (this is a long sequence of line segments) and adds all bus stops that are closer to one of these line segments than the threshold Maximum distance from routes and one side. As bus stops usually appear in both directions but buses have doors only on one side, all stops in the correct direction must be either on the right hand side or all on the left hand side. To illustrate http://78.46.81.38/misc/suggest_stops.png For the sake of simplicity, the suggest stops replaces all previous stops and assigns no role to the bus stops. But this behaviour can be changed if otherwise useful. Cheers, Roland ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
Am 05.02.2010 15:36, Roland Olbricht: Hello, as I consider mapping bus services as quite intricate, I've written a plugin for JOSM to make editing for comfortable. It is not very mature so far, but I would be grateful for any bug reports, comments and suggestions: The plugin itself http://78.46.81.38/misc/public_transport.jar And some documentation http://78.46.81.38/misc/public_transport.readme.txt The idea behind that is to standardise the data representation, according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema The plugin has successfully been used to map several bus lines in Wuppertal, in particular http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/163298 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/359774 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/34633 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/359796 The source code is available at http://78.46.81.38/misc/public_transport.tar.gz I have not figured out so far how to add this plugin to the JOSM SVN. Cool. So far I've seen a new menu item Public transport having appearing in my main menu. Anything else to discover? If you were asking for a wishlist: Double-click routes or stops should actually select the relation/node and center the editor's view on the latter. What's the Tags-tab used for? It's empty when I loaded my Leipzig public transport data. I haven't discovered yet how the Suggest stops feature works. Thanks again for this plugin. Looks very promising, Clauidus ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
It's amazing that they seem to make the data so hard to get at, given that the objective is to get people to use public transport. Are they really generating serious revenues from this data? Cheers Chris On 24/08/09 21:45, Peter Miller wrote: On 24 Aug 2009, at 20:18, Péter Connell wrote: Wonder if we need some openjourneyplanner thing - obviously a massive task. ... but who owns bus timetables? The argument is raging as we speak This is a great blog post on the subject which shows how hard the agencies are being pushed at present:- http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10315749-250.html?part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-5 At ITO we are pushing transport authorities virtually every day to get hold of the data under a commercial agreement where we pay them, but even that is hard! I am sure that in time the deal will be that the information is available without charge. Imo, we can't expect to maintain accurate timetables without access to the official data. It just isn't practical and sustainable to track all the detail and all the changes over time without it. And of course, the range of services which are suddenly available to authorities who release their data is growing by the day. Regards, Peter *strokes beard* ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
That said, I don't think one way or node can belong to the same relation more than once! So you wouldn't be able to map the 'loop' perfectly yet. Of course it can and it should in such case! member type='node' ref='D' order='1' / member type='node' ref='C' order='2' / member type='node' ref='F' order='3' / member type='node' ref='B' order='4' / member type='node' ref='E' order='5' / member type='node' ref='C' order='6' / member type='node' ref='F' order='7' / member type='node' ref='B' order='8' / member type='node' ref='A' order='9' / You don't need that order tag, the api saves the order in which you list the members in the xml. regards, Melchior ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.dewrote: I would like to add to the map the bus routes of Wuppertal. After starting with a sample (4 out of about 50 routes), it turned out to be a tedious task due to poor tool support. Thus, I'm thinking about writing a JOSM plugin to simplify editing. Nice work on setting out to map the bus routes of Wuppertal (do you have a link? I must confess I have no idea where that is). I'm not sure whether it'd be more or less tedious to write a plugin for JOSM, but good luck if you decide to have a go. Personally, I find the online Potlatch editor works pretty well for tagging long distance routes (and if you learn the keyboard shortcuts, it's pretty quick to keep adding the same relation to a way). There doesn't seem to be consenus about what representation to use. There are some, partly contradictive, propositions http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User%3AOxomoa/Public_transport_schema (and probably others) Yes - public transport mapping is still a fairly new activity, and so there are a few different ways that people have conceived of doing it. I've been trying to promote http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport as a place where we can document the different tagging schemas in existence, but documentation is still a little patchy. Please feel free to help out! - I'd like to differentiate between networks for different times of the day. For example, for the Paris bus network there are even distinct maps: http://www.ratp.info/orienter/bus.php The network has services that run only during daytime, services running only in the evening, services running in the evening a different mission than during daytime and services running always the same mission. Interesting! One idea might be to use a network=* tag. Alternatively, there might be some form of hours-of-operation tag that we could either re-use or propose. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport suggests using service=*, but I don't think this is in wide-spread usage yet (or has even been discussed?). The only thing we probably shouldn't do is to use another relation to group the services together - as that'd be a form of categorisation, which isn't what relations are designed for. - Some of the services run through loops. E.g. ABF---CD || +E---+ they run ABECD in one direction and DCFBECFBA in the other direction. The standard route model with unordered data does not allow to distinguish this from ABECFBECD forth and DCFBA back. As I understand it, the ways SHOULD be order. Also, if we go with the notion of using on-way 'stop points' (ie nodes in the highway representing where the buses stop, rather than the nodes beside the highway representing where passengers wait), then those nodes should be included within the relation too, in order. (This is already done for some train services). That said, I don't think one way or node can belong to the same relation more than once! So you wouldn't be able to map the 'loop' perfectly yet. - I'd like to give some indication about connections between different services. Some services always wait for each other to allow to change quickly. Some services intentionally have coordinated timetables, i.e. the busses of line 627 and 637 partly run in parallel. One is departing at a stop at 00 und 20, the other at 40, so they offer together a ride every 20 minutes. I suspect that might be a little out-of-scope for a map...? Perhaps concentrate on mapping the routes first? Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
On 24 Aug 2009, at 20:18, Péter Connell wrote: Wonder if we need some openjourneyplanner thing - obviously a massive task. ... but who owns bus timetables? The argument is raging as we speak This is a great blog post on the subject which shows how hard the agencies are being pushed at present:- http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10315749-250.html?part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-5 At ITO we are pushing transport authorities virtually every day to get hold of the data under a commercial agreement where we pay them, but even that is hard! I am sure that in time the deal will be that the information is available without charge. Imo, we can't expect to maintain accurate timetables without access to the official data. It just isn't practical and sustainable to track all the detail and all the changes over time without it. And of course, the range of services which are suddenly available to authorities who release their data is growing by the day. Regards, Peter *strokes beard* ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
