Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
Hi On 06/08/2019 15:06, Jarek Piórkowski wrote: > > The currently mapped Flixbus routes are just guessing as well - buses > can deviate as long as they make the scheduled stops. > I think so as well, judging from newspaper articles about bus drivers taking wrong routes (not leading to the station) But I'd like to get back to the sustainability argument. It is difficult editing data with routes and not breaking them. We should not require experts to edit roads. We should keep the relations manageable. It pains me to see new mappers attacked by experienced ones, because their favourite bus route broke. For me edits on the roads have priority and we should not require knowledge of the route part of PT relations. Anyway, I'm in favour of not adding routes to those long range bus relations. If someone maps them, they should not complain if they break. I don't see The use case. Michael ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 06:23, Dave F via Talk-transit wrote: > On 06/08/2019 07:08, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > An app would route from one station to the other, and show status as if you > > were driving. There could be a tag that would say if the route goes through > > motorways, tolled roads, ferries and so on. That would help the app > > determine what would be the route. > > No, it wouldn't. That would just be guessing The currently mapped Flixbus routes are just guessing as well - buses can deviate as long as they make the scheduled stops. They don't usually deviate, because the mapped route is by far the fastest, and that's the point. --Jarek ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 13:20 Dave F via Talk-transit < talk-transit@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > > On 02/08/2019 14:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the > relation. > > How would you perform real-time tracking? > An app would route from one station to the other, and show status as if you were driving. There could be a tag that would say if the route goes through motorways, tolled roads, ferries and so on. That would help the app determine what would be the route. Route times could be written in the tags. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
Really? Just because you may not want to does not mean others will not. How would route distance and times be calculated? On 5 August 2019, at 22:33, Tijmen Stam wrote: On 05-08-19 13:22, Dave F via Talk-transit wrote: > > > On 02/08/2019 14:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: >> I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the >> relation. > > How would you perform real-time tracking? I think that is not something one does on OSM. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
On 05-08-19 13:22, Dave F via Talk-transit wrote: On 02/08/2019 14:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the relation. How would you perform real-time tracking? I think that is not something one does on OSM. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
On 02/08/2019 14:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the relation. How would you perform real-time tracking? DaveF ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
On 02-08-19 15:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: A user in Europe started adding long bus lines some time ago. These routes are crossing several countries and mostly drive along motorways. Here is a piece of motorway between Berlin and Dresden: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/313980637 it has two road routes, and 13 Flixbus bus routes. I think this can't be sustainable. If all bus companies started adding these routes, we could have a hundred or more relations on motorway ways. Are there any recommendations about routes like this on the wiki? I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the relation. What are your thoughts? I have had the same idea before. Mainly because some of these operators have non-fixed routes between their stations. They are able (either on the discretion of the driver or dispatching) to choose between different roads based on traffic, and will frequently do so. This is not compareable to long distance trains, which will only in rare cases deviate from their standard route, mainly because the train network is so much sparser. Tijmen/IIVQ ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Long bus routes
Fundamentally this isn't that different from long-distance train services. In practice, at least in Germany, Flixbus is one of very few bus operators that have 1) daily/weekly schedules and 2) tickets they sell to anyone (rather than a charter service). However I am aware elsewhere this might not be the case. Further, it might not actually be a problem in practice since most communities will probably not be as thorough in mapping intercity buses in OSM as the Germans ;) Suggestions that come to mind are: - not mapping the route highways for long-distance PTv2 routes and only including the stops (should still be usable for PT routing between stops); or - creating a sort of "meta-routes" for "buses along A13 between Dresden and Berlin" and "buses along A24 between Berlin and Hamburg" that would then be assembled into full routing by routes like Prague->Hamburg, Dresden->Warnemünde, or Dresden->Berlin (requires new software support, but then only one relation along the piece of A13). --Jarek On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 at 09:35, Janko Mihelić wrote: > > A user in Europe started adding long bus lines some time ago. These routes > are crossing several countries and mostly drive along motorways. Here is a > piece of motorway between Berlin and Dresden: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/313980637 > > it has two road routes, and 13 Flixbus bus routes. I think this can't be > sustainable. If all bus companies started adding these routes, we could have > a hundred or more relations on motorway ways. > > Are there any recommendations about routes like this on the wiki? I think > they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the relation. > > What are your thoughts? > > Janko Mihelić > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] Long bus routes
A user in Europe started adding long bus lines some time ago. These routes are crossing several countries and mostly drive along motorways. Here is a piece of motorway between Berlin and Dresden: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/313980637 it has two road routes, and 13 Flixbus bus routes. I think this can't be sustainable. If all bus companies started adding these routes, we could have a hundred or more relations on motorway ways. Are there any recommendations about routes like this on the wiki? I think they should be mapped as relations with only stations in the relation. What are your thoughts? Janko Mihelić ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
