Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
In message Brian Prangle wrote: > Have a go at mapping one bus route to start with - it's great fun! We were > helped enormously by having the trial NaPTAN import so we got a good grid of > bus stops mapped where we agreed as a local group to make sure all the route > nos where displayed on bus stops were tagged. It's a good idea to travel a > bus route and take a GPS track ( great for wet miserable days when you don't > want to cycle). If there's a plethora of operators just pick the biggest and > map their routes. > I tried to do a bit of Route 50 yesterday which I know very well from staying at the Paragon Hotel. As you will see I got into a bit of a tangle with the relation description. Maybe somewhere there is guidance on this. It is quite a lot of work and I do wonder if there are easier ways to provide OSM with where the routes go. The immediate value to the public transport industry will be OSM local verification of the bus stop positions and the naming of stops, streets and localities. Best wishes. -- Peter J Stoner UK Regional Coordinator Traveline www.travelinedata.org.uk follow us @traveline on Twitter a trading name of Intelligent Travel Solutions Ltd company number 3826797 Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Have a go at mapping one bus route to start with - it's great fun! We were helped enormously by having the trial NaPTAN import so we got a good grid of bus stops mapped where we agreed as a local group to make sure all the route nos where displayed on bus stops were tagged. It's a good idea to travel a bus route and take a GPS track ( great for wet miserable days when you don't want to cycle). If there's a plethora of operators just pick the biggest and map their routes. Regards Brian ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
In message <1350f7a40907011136v6c900679pb0005b149101...@mail.gmail.com > Frankie Roberto wrote: > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Melchior Moos wrote: >> I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first >> step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees >> the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole >> europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham: >> http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13&lat=53.48074&lon=-2.24051 >> > How do you start? Honestly, the information on the ground at bus stops is so > poor it's completely useless. Getting on a bus is like rolling a dice (which > determines where you'll end up, as well as how much you'll pay). > Frankie You might find helpful www.traveline.info/nextbuses.htm (or www.mytraveline.mobi if that suits your browser better) where you can type the naptan:AtcoCode straight in and find out what the next departures are. -- Peter J Stoner UK Regional Coordinator Traveline www.travelinedata.org.uk follow us @traveline on Twitter a trading name of Intelligent Travel Solutions Ltd company number 3826797 Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Melchior Moos schrieb: > Hi, > > Bus routes are appearing nicely now on: > >> > >> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml > > > > > > Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for > > Manchester. Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing > > (multiple operators with different fare structures, and routes that > > seem to change monthly) that this kind of map would be really > > useful. > > > > I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though > > (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes). > > > > I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the > first step and I think there will be someone who continues your work > if he sees the results or the objects in the database. The map > available for the whole europe, so you will se the results in the > same way as in Birmingham: > http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13&lat=53.48074&lon=-2.24051 > regards, Melchior Yes, Melchior deserves the kudos for making the public transport map! We merely display his great map on Mappa Mercia. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Melchior Moos wrote: > I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first > step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees > the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole > europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham: > http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13&lat=53.48074&lon=-2.24051 > How do you start? Honestly, the information on the ground at bus stops is so poor it's completely useless. Getting on a bus is like rolling a dice (which determines where you'll end up, as well as how much you'll pay). Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Hi, Bus routes are appearing nicely now on: >> >> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml > > > Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for Manchester. > Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing (multiple operators with > different fare structures, and routes that seem to change monthly) that this > kind of map would be really useful. > > I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though > (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes). > I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham: http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13&lat=53.48074&lon=-2.24051 regards, Melchior ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) < ajrli...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Bus routes are appearing nicely now on: > > http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for Manchester. Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing (multiple operators with different fare structures, and routes that seem to change monthly) that this kind of map would be really useful. I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes). Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
>>Also, what do the colours mean? > blue = Naptan stop (no highway=bus_stop but a naptan:AtcoCode tag) > yellow = plain OSM stop (highway=bus_stop but no naptan:AtcoCode tag) > orange = Merged stop (highway=bus_stop and naptan:AtcoCode, but is still > unverified or has no shelter tag set*) > green = Merged and verified stop > > * I do not remember off the top of my head if there is another rule. I think > we discussed something about route tags on the mailing list. I need to check > the code to provide reliable information. 2009/7/1 Christoph Boehme : > Andy, > > Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: >> Looking great. > > Thanks! > >> I didn't play for more than a couple of moments so I may be missing >> something here, however if a stop has been merged, ie it appears to have all >> the right data, then there will be no wish to merge it with another stop. >> There could be a danger of losing data if we did? I think once a stop >> reaches a certain level of tagging it should perhaps be possible to disable >> a merge. > > You are right. That is one of the things that I need to do when I clean > up the muddle of the map interaction code. > > My idea is that only plain osm and plain Naptan stops can be merged. As > soon as a node has both a highway=bus_stop and a naptan:AtcoCode tag it > cannot be part of a merge any more. The similar stops list accounts for > this already but the map does not. Be aware that some counties may go with the 'default on' option of highway=bus_stop tagging for the import, so you're going to have to rely on the verified tag. Also note that it was proposed to change unverified=yes to verified=no. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Andy, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > Looking great. Thanks! > I didn't play for more than a couple of moments so I may be missing > something here, however if a stop has been merged, ie it appears to have all > the right data, then there will be no wish to merge it with another stop. > There could be a danger of losing data if we did? I think once a stop > reaches a certain level of tagging it should perhaps be possible to disable > a merge. You are right. That is one of the things that I need to do when I clean up the muddle of the map interaction code. My idea is that only plain osm and plain Naptan stops can be merged. As soon as a node has both a highway=bus_stop and a naptan:AtcoCode tag it cannot be part of a merge any more. The similar stops list accounts for this already but the map does not. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Christoph, Looking great. I didn't play for more than a couple of moments so I may be missing something here, however if a stop has been merged, ie it appears to have all the right data, then there will be no wish to merge it with another stop. There could be a danger of losing data if we did? I think once a stop reaches a certain level of tagging it should perhaps be possible to disable a merge. Cheers Andy >-Original Message- >From: Christoph Boehme [mailto:christ...@b3e.net] >Sent: 01 July 2009 1:28 PM >To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) >Cc: talk-gb-westmidla...@openstreetmap.org; talk-transit@openstreetmap.org >Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes > >Hi! > >Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > >> FYI, I'm only adding the routes in for sections where I've already >verified >> the NaPTAN bus stops and added the route refs displayed at the stop. > >I it might be helpful here that I recently updated the Naptanmerger (now >renamed to Novam as Brian suggested) and it now displays all nodes >within the UK with naptan:AtcoCode or highway=bus_stop set. It also >indicates the completeness of the tagging by using different colours. > >http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/novam.wsgi/ > >The current database dump is from 29/06/09 and I am currently testing a >script that will apply the hourly diffs to the database. This will >hopefully ready for use on the server within the next weeks. > >The tool now has most of its client-side functions implemented. Though, >there are a couple things missing or not working properly (especially >the selection/marking state of the icons on the map). You can play >around with it as much as you like since no actual changes are made on >the server yet. > >There are three hidden functions: > >1. Shift+Clicking on a bus stop selects this bus stop instead of marking > >it for merging when another bus stop is selected at the moment. >2. Control+Clicking on images (none in the database at the moment) >selects the position of the image. >3. The currently selected bus stop can be moved on the map to change its > >position. > >Cheers, >Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Thomas Wood wrote: > 2009/7/1 Christoph Boehme : >> Hi! >> >> Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: >> >>> FYI, I'm only adding the routes in for sections where I've already verified >>> the NaPTAN bus stops and added the route refs displayed at the stop. >> I it might be helpful here that I recently updated the Naptanmerger (now >> renamed to Novam as Brian suggested) and it now displays all nodes >> within the UK with naptan:AtcoCode or highway=bus_stop set. It also >> indicates the completeness of the tagging by using different colours. >> >> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/novam.wsgi/ >> >> The current database dump is from 29/06/09 and I am currently testing a >> script that will apply the hourly diffs to the database. This will >> hopefully ready for use on the server within the next weeks. >> >> The tool now has most of its client-side functions implemented. Though, >> there are a couple things missing or not working properly (especially >> the selection/marking state of the icons on the map). You can play >> around with it as much as you like since no actual changes are made on >> the server yet. >> >> There are three hidden functions: >> >> 1. Shift+Clicking on a bus stop selects this bus stop instead of marking >> >>it for merging when another bus stop is selected at the moment. >> 2. Control+Clicking on images (none in the database at the moment) >>selects the position of the image. >> 3. The currently selected bus stop can be moved on the map to change its >> >>position. >> >> Cheers, >> Christoph >> >> ___ >> Talk-transit mailing list >> Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit >> > > Very nice, can't review it in full now, since I'm away until Monday. In case you wondered about the Internal Errors: the Waypoints and Images links are deliberately not working. I have not added verification of the uploaded data yet. Therefore, I disabled the methods. > However, I think it'd be good if you could link to the osm.org browse > view for the node, or show the raw tagging so people can get an idea > how it handles various tags? Yes, that is a good idea. At the moment, the merge preview basically shows the original tags; it only strips the naptan: prefix. The way different tags are handled can easily be changed if needed. I have not implemented any particular suggestions that arose from the public transport tagging scheme yet. So, once decisions have been made there the editor can be updated. I also need to add a method to handle tags which are not part of the tagging scheme (discarding them silently is probably not an option). > Also, what do the colours mean? blue = Naptan stop (no highway=bus_stop but a naptan:AtcoCode tag) yellow = plain OSM stop (highway=bus_stop but no naptan:AtcoCode tag) orange = Merged stop (highway=bus_stop and naptan:AtcoCode, but is still unverified or has no shelter tag set*) green = Merged and verified stop * I do not remember off the top of my head if there is another rule. I think we discussed something about route tags on the mailing list. I need to check the code to provide reliable information. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
2009/7/1 Christoph Boehme : > Hi! > > Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > >> FYI, I'm only adding the routes in for sections where I've already verified >> the NaPTAN bus stops and added the route refs displayed at the stop. > > I it might be helpful here that I recently updated the Naptanmerger (now > renamed to Novam as Brian suggested) and it now displays all nodes > within the UK with naptan:AtcoCode or highway=bus_stop set. It also > indicates the completeness of the tagging by using different colours. > > http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/novam.wsgi/ > > The current database dump is from 29/06/09 and I am currently testing a > script that will apply the hourly diffs to the database. This will > hopefully ready for use on the server within the next weeks. > > The tool now has most of its client-side functions implemented. Though, > there are a couple things missing or not working properly (especially > the selection/marking state of the icons on the map). You can play > around with it as much as you like since no actual changes are made on > the server yet. > > There are three hidden functions: > > 1. Shift+Clicking on a bus stop selects this bus stop instead of marking > > it for merging when another bus stop is selected at the moment. > 2. Control+Clicking on images (none in the database at the moment) > selects the position of the image. > 3. The currently selected bus stop can be moved on the map to change its > > position. > > Cheers, > Christoph > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > Very nice, can't review it in full now, since I'm away until Monday. However, I think it'd be good if you could link to the osm.org browse view for the node, or show the raw tagging so people can get an idea how it handles various tags? Also, what do the colours mean? -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Hi! Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > FYI, I'm only adding the routes in for sections where I've already verified > the NaPTAN bus stops and added the route refs displayed at the stop. I it might be helpful here that I recently updated the Naptanmerger (now renamed to Novam as Brian suggested) and it now displays all nodes within the UK with naptan:AtcoCode or highway=bus_stop set. It also indicates the completeness of the tagging by using different colours. http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/novam.wsgi/ The current database dump is from 29/06/09 and I am currently testing a script that will apply the hourly diffs to the database. This will hopefully ready for use on the server within the next weeks. The tool now has most of its client-side functions implemented. Though, there are a couple things missing or not working properly (especially the selection/marking state of the icons on the map). You can play around with it as much as you like since no actual changes are made on the server yet. There are three hidden functions: 1. Shift+Clicking on a bus stop selects this bus stop instead of marking it for merging when another bus stop is selected at the moment. 2. Control+Clicking on images (none in the database at the moment) selects the position of the image. 3. The currently selected bus stop can be moved on the map to change its position. Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes
Please add any bus route relation references to the wiki page below so that we avoid having to merge relations for routes that traverse the city or get edited by different contributors at different times. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bus_Routes_in_West_Midlands/Route_Refs I note that within the west mids some route references are used more than once. Thus it's necessary to check what the operator of the route is or more details via Centro before deciding to reuse a relation or start a new one. Bus routes are appearing nicely now on: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml FYI, I'm only adding the routes in for sections where I've already verified the NaPTAN bus stops and added the route refs displayed at the stop. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
