Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 3 Aug 2010, at 22:32 , Kevin Atkinson wrote: OK. So There is clearly no agreement on the abbreviation of road types (Street, Way, etc). So what about these specific exceptions. I will assume silence means agreement :) Rather than United Stated Highway 29 Frontage Road just U.S. 29 Frontage Road or maybe US 29 Frontage Road. Why. Because no will say the formal out load. most of the times I see it name=Frontage Road ref=US 29 this will be rendered in similar way as on other maps. Name is on the street and US, I, is on a shield. Doesn't make sense to duplicate the ref on the name. Since when does a frontage road get a Highway shield? And in any case you are saying that the frontage road is part of US 29? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.orgwrote: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 3 Aug 2010, at 22:32 , Kevin Atkinson wrote: OK. So There is clearly no agreement on the abbreviation of road types (Street, Way, etc). So what about these specific exceptions. I will assume silence means agreement :) Rather than United Stated Highway 29 Frontage Road just U.S. 29 Frontage Road or maybe US 29 Frontage Road. Why. Because no will say the formal out load. most of the times I see it name=Frontage Road ref=US 29 this will be rendered in similar way as on other maps. Name is on the street and US, I, is on a shield. Doesn't make sense to duplicate the ref on the name. Since when does a frontage road get a Highway shield? got this wrong and meant Frontage road is a name, but now need to correct altogether. but what is meant here has most likely no name at all. frontage road is a then a type of highway not a name. and US 29 in any form is not really a name either. again all other maps will not render names unless there really is a defined name. normally ramp, access road, frontage road are mapped as highway=*link without name And in any case you are saying that the frontage road is part of US 29? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:32 AM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: OK. So There is clearly no agreement on the abbreviation of road types (Street, Way, etc). So what about these specific exceptions. I will assume silence means agreement :) See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name specifically under Abbreviations: Don't do it :-) Rather than United Stated Highway 29 Frontage Road just U.S. 29 Frontage Road or maybe US 29 Frontage Road. Why. Because no will say the formal out load. Rather than Interstate 95 Frontage Road, just I-95 Frontage Road. Why? Even though some will say the formal, most just say the letter I. North Service Road and South Service Road. Romantic names, I know. Are these similar to what you are calling frontage roads? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.58872lon=-79.57644zoom=17layers=M Perhaps frontage roads are an edge case that have been dealt with in another jurisdiction. Are there suggestions from tagging, or talk? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On 8/4/10 7:45 AM, Richard Weait wrote: North Service Road and South Service Road. Romantic names, I know. Are these similar to what you are calling frontage roads? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.58872lon=-79.57644zoom=17layers=M i certainly would call those frontage roads. Perhaps frontage roads are an edge case that have been dealt with in another jurisdiction. Are there suggestions from tagging, or talk? if the frontage roads have signs (some do, some don't) the name should be from the sign. otherwise, i'd go with local usage. some places use Service Road, others use Frontage Road, and i'm sure there are other usages. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x
Presently numbered county roads in Florida (and New Jersey) are tagged using parentheses, for example ref=(535) for County Road 535. The reasons for this are essentially a historical accident. I'm proposing a semi-automated change from this to ref=CR 535. The present format is likely confusing to most users, while the new format would be easier to understand and no harder for a renderer to convert to a shield. The steps would be to download a XAPI query of ref=* for Florida and then to use regular expressions to change the refs. I'm not quite sure how to do the latter; JOSM doesn't seem to have a find-replace function. Does anyone have experience with this sort of replacement and can offer advice? I'm sending this proposal to the talk-us mailing list as well as to individual mappers who have edited recently in Florida. Please discuss it either on the list or through the OSM messaging system. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x
We have a long history in the US of well-intentioned bots which end up causing problems[1]. My question is Have you run your changes across the data to see what it actually does and then reviewed the results? - Serge [1] Including my own. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On 4 August 2010 08:23, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 3 Aug 2010, at 22:32 , Kevin Atkinson wrote: most of the times I see it name=Frontage Road ref=US 29 this will be rendered in similar way as on other maps. Name is on the street and US, I, is on a shield. Doesn't make sense to duplicate the ref on the name. Since when does a frontage road get a Highway shield? got this wrong and meant Frontage road is a name, but now need to correct altogether. but what is meant here has most likely no name at all. frontage road is a then a type of highway not a name. and US 29 in any form is not really a name either. again all other maps will not render names unless there really is a defined name. normally ramp, access road, frontage road are mapped as highway=*link without name Maybe the description= tag would be better for that, although name= is traditionally abused so much for descriptions that I don't see it as a problem. I agree about U.S. not being read out fully, so possibly it's better written this way too. Cheers ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: We have a long history in the US of well-intentioned bots which end up causing problems[1]. My question is Have you run your changes across the data to see what it actually does and then reviewed the results? Yes, I would review the results; what I need however is a way to run the changes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x
On 8/4/10 8:49 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Serge Wroclawskiemac...@gmail.com wrote: We have a long history in the US of well-intentioned bots which end up causing problems[1]. My question is Have you run your changes across the data to see what it actually does and then reviewed the results? Yes, I would review the results; what I need however is a way to run the changes. i concur with Nathan's proposed change, i think it is warranted. the review step is important, anyone running bots should have a quality control plan which includes a timely review and a plan to rollback the changeset promptly if things go awry. lack of QC planning has led to some significant damage to the map in parts of the US (particularly with some of the ill advised dup removal bots.) i don't know enough about bot operation to actually answer Nathan's question, though. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On 08/04/2010 07:09 AM, Richard Welty wrote: otherwise, i'd go with local usage. some places use Service Road, others use Frontage Road, and i'm sure there are other usages. Either way though, that’s not the actual name of the road. It’s a description of the road’s function. (though sometimes they are actually named that by the local municipality as well, YMMV) —Alex Mauer “hawke” signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Richard Weait wrote: On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:32 AM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: OK. So There is clearly no agreement on the abbreviation of road types (Street, Way, etc). So what about these specific exceptions. I will assume silence means agreement :) See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name specifically under Abbreviations: Don't do it :-) Yes of course I know about. So you really are saying that, both examples should be spelled out, _if_, they are called that. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police
I have found that in almost every case, the road really is officially named service road or frontage road if the naming authority is a county or municipality. In most cases though, the naming authority for such roads generally belongs to the State, who gives the road a name like an official name North Highway 40 Frontage Road (with the direction always designated side of the highway the road runs along, not direction the road runs), and then shortens it on the sign. The exceptions are when the state has an even more cryptic system that gives the frontage road an official name like R40N270170. This is common when the frontage or service road is technically a ramp. In those cases though, the roads rarely have signage. --Brett Brett Lord-Castillo Information Systems Designer/GIS Programmer St. Louis County Police Office of Emergency Management 14847 Ladue Bluffs Crossing Drive Chesterfield, MO 63017 Office: 314-628-5400 Fax: 314-628-5508 Direct: 314-628-5407 -Original Message- Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:34:25 -0500 From: Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police Message-ID: i3c1a8$rs...@dough.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 08/04/2010 07:09 AM, Richard Welty wrote: otherwise, i'd go with local usage. some places use Service Road, others use Frontage Road, and i'm sure there are other usages. Either way though, that?s not the actual name of the road. It?s a description of the road?s function. (though sometimes they are actually named that by the local municipality as well, YMMV) ?Alex Mauer ?hawke? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Remember the On the Ground addendum
At 2010-08-04 06:33, Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote: ... Moral of my little story. Remember the addendum to the on the ground rule: In the case where there are multiple local names, then if the government with effective and sustained control of the area has an official source of names or an official stance on a naming dispute, then that name is default. And don't assume that the name on the sign is the correct local name. Odds are the agency that put it there is not the agency responsible for official names. Interesting story. In my experience in SoCal, the accuracy of the signs varies by city, but it's usually the sign that is wrong in the case of an inconsistency with county records (tract, parcel, survey maps). In these cases, I've informed the city (who is generally responsible for the signage), and they generally respond with a signage fix (or intend to, anyway). I put the correct name in the name tag and the incorrectly signed name in the alt_name tag and add a FIXME to recheck in the future. On a few occasions, I've found inconsistencies among multiple county records and the signage, and come to the conclusion that one of the records is wrong, which I then report to the county and/or city involved. These take more time to get fixed, but there's no need to tag the incorrect name at all. Occasionally, I've stumbled on a naming dispute like the one Brett described, where a name given by a city doesn't match the records or the signs. These are difficult to resolve (certainly for me with no official capacity), and are always just a subjective call as far as tagging. Basically, my goal is that the name on the signage should be in the map in either the alt_name or name tags, since that's how most people will know it. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x
At 2010-08-04 05:17, Nathan Edgars II wrote: ... The steps would be to download a XAPI query of ref=* for Florida and then to use regular expressions to change the refs. I'm not quite sure how to do the latter; JOSM doesn't seem to have a find-replace function. Does anyone have experience with this sort of replacement and can offer advice? Yes, a find/replace in JOSM would be cool. I've written perl scripts in the past, but these ad-hoc changes I've done as follows: 1. As you said, download to a file using XAPI. Save a backup copy of the file, too. 2. Open the file in JOSM and search for the regex that identifies the objects that you will change. Add some tag to them (e.g. foo=bar). This is done to add the action=modify descriptor to them. Save the file and close it. 3. Open the file in a text editor capable of regex replacements (e.g. TextPad). Search/replace your desired change. The count should match that in step 2. Save and close the file. 4. Open the file again in JOSM. Search for foo=bar. You should get the same number as in step 2. Look at your tag changes in those objects one last time. Remove the foo=bar tag from them. Upload (note the number of changes, which should again match step 2) with a meaningful changeset comment. Save the file and close. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] nominations reminder
Nominations are open for board positions for the US Chapter of OSM US until midnight August 13th (Eastern time). if you are a paid member, you may self-nominate at this URL: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States/US_SOTM/Board_Nominations_July-August_2010 The 7 current nominees have been verified to be eligible for the Board. Richard Welty Secretary, OSMF US Chapter ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
