Re: [Talk-us] Excellent progress, u.s.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 7:26 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 April 2012 03:30, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: One drawback to this new-coordinate technique is that, in some cases, the tainted nodes will have been in the proper locations to match the real world. So, in order to make the cleanup bot not consider the nodes to be tainted, we have to knowingly make the map data less accurate than it had formerly been. It also will remain tainted, only the bot will not know about it and consider it untainted. So it's a way to trick the bot and potentially put the OSM Foundation under legal risk. This is why the remapping effort before the bot run is finished, is a Really Bad Idea. It is both more time costly and it is provoking users to cause incompatible IP to be preserved over the license change, often unconsciously. See all the ideas of using the incompatible IP to create the new compatible IP, such as using the tainted coastlines data to remap small islands. (RichardF said he does not agree it's a bad idea, but he wouldn't explain which point he disagrees with or why) Cheers I was assuming that there was an additional data source, such as aerial photos and/or GPS traces, which could be used to judge the accuracy of the tainted node. As I understand the way the bot judges taintedness, if you delete a tainted node, then insert a replacement node in the same location, the new node is also considered tainted even though it was added by someone who agreed to the new license terms, and even though that might be the correct location to mark the corner of a polygon. Any new (version 1) node created by someone who has accepted the new terms is clean and will be in the ODbL planet. The only exception might be if it is an untagged node that is a member of a dirty way that gets deleted. Although I'm not totally sure about this. If this doesn't happen, we will end up with probably millions of orphaned nodes. Also, the only way to replace a node with the exact same location is to copy/paste it. It is virtually impossible for a human to place a node at exactly the same location. And shifting nodes by a few inches just to make it show up clean in OSMI is definitely not ok. If a node is off and needs to be corrected, then fine. But if you are moving it just to clean it, delete it instead, along with any surrounding dirty nodes and recreate it based on imagery or GPS or whatever you normally use to map. This is why I delete all dirty nodes in a way and then use the w mode in JOSM to recreate the geometry from clean sources. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] tiff, dwg and nad83
So I missed the whole exchange - so I read what little I see below and here are my thoughts. I don't think it's too GIS geeky - it's too OSM geeky. There are too many ways to get to a common goal - adding data. You can import, GPS, walk around, etc etc. There almost needs to be a list serve or a forum for new people - somewhere you can walk people through editing woes and problems. I agree - this list does get too bogged down in details. Don't take the following as a complaint - but is someone says So lets say that I ask for a sample GeoTIFF, which I assume is just a big graphic file similar to any other TIFF file (or jpg or whatever) an answer of For the first one you install gdal with python bindings, run gdal2tiles (and it's a Excellent answer and I'm going to try it myself on a geotiff I have here) but it's going to be too confusing for someone new especially someone in the potlatch arena or a new user just getting started. Don't assume a technical question needs a technical answer. Start Simple - build from there. Randy Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc http://www.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale On 4/15/2012 2:37 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: The exchange between Frank Cox and others about importing data is a perfect example of an ongoing problem with this list: Many of the discussions and answers are simply too GIS geeky for the vast majority of us. Frank asked for a simple do x then do y kind of explanation. Several members replied, but no one but Paul Norman tried to give him that kind of answer. Unfortunately, Paul's answer contained a lot of GIS technical language. Obviously, he's very knowlegeable, but he didn't put the explanation at a level where Frank and the rest ofus could understand it. That's why reading the list often is frustrating. There's a lot of talk about technical issues and minutiae, but little guidance for those of us who just want to map using Potlatch 2, which is most of us. (By the way, what is a network, and where is it in Potlatch coding?) Also, sometimes there are snippy disputes about issues that seem obscure, which makes the list occasionally unpleasant to read. Again, for those of us who just want to map, this isn't helpful. What can be done to make Talk-US more useful for the average mapper? Charlotte At 04:59 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote: From: Frank Cox [mailto:thea...@melvilletheatre.com] Subject: Re: [Imports] tiff, dwg and nad83 On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:34:49 -0700 Paul Norman wrote: What I would suggest is to start with the GeoTiffs and go from there. All righty, now we're getting somewhere. So lets say that I ask for a sample GeoTIFF, which I assume is just a big graphic file similar to any other TIFF file (or jpg or whatever). The engineering department has these things (we assume), so he gives me a copy of one of them. I carry this thing home on my trusty flash drive (or whatever), plug it into my computer, and now I have a graphic file on my computer that I didn't have before. What now? Depending on how big it is, you can either tile it with gdal2tiles[1] or serve it with mapserver[2]. For the first one you install gdal with python bindings, run gdal2tiles on the geotiff, use a script (http://paste.ubuntu.com/928312/) to fix some names, and serve that with apache. JOSM or Potlatch can then use it as a background layer. For the second one you install gdal and mapserver and tell it to serve the geotiff and then you can add it as a background layer with JOSM or Potlatch. I had a look at your town and given that it's a very small town and the bing imagery is actually quite good, I don't know that it's worth doing any sort of import. If you wanted street names you could get them from CanVec[3]. Of course collecting street names also gives you a chance to tag businesses, amenities, etc. [1] http://gdal.org/ [2] http://mapserver.org/ [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CanVec ___ Imports mailing list impo...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady *The Four Internet Freedoms* Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] tiff, dwg and nad83
Also, the original mail in this thread was on imports, which is by its nature, a technical list. Folks who don't have a *ton* of experience shouldn't do imports, and folks with a ton of experience don't do imports. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] tiff, dwg and nad83
..and I'll end my part in this with this - I've contacted the two people I am interested in helping. I will talk to them and work our way through the problem. I am interested in getting more people editing - not arguing over the technical. As for imports - I guess I shouldn't have imported the NHD data for my region. But I did. I've improved it since the import. Parts failed - parts worked well - I've done what I can to make it better overall. I will import more data when appropriate - when it's not appropriate I will get out and manually collect and edit the data. Ask not what OSM can do for you - Ask what you can do to make the map better. We're all here to do that and attract users and editors - making answers cryptic, offering up blanket statements on user experience, and not offering help won't do it. Have a nice day Randy Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc http://www.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale On 4/15/2012 5:27 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Also, the original mail in this thread was on imports, which is by its nature, a technical list. Folks who don't have a *ton* of experience shouldn't do imports, and folks with a ton of experience don't do imports. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] tiff, dwg and nad83
Documentation! I think what you did is exactly what is needed. It may or may not need improvements. If what is decided in the newsgroups is not put down in the wiki then the discussion was not finished to a point someone could sum it up for the masses to follow. Then post a link here for everyone to review. There are always different types of people. Some need step by step instructions, other just an overview and they research it from there. Sometimes simply stating which type of instructions before starting is fine. If it is something that others will need to know then make a wiki page and answer by pointing them there. Especially if it took much work to answer the question. Stating up front: Importing is generally a technical endeavor and anyone not willing to do a bit of digging to learn new things will find it frustrating. This is just an overview of the steps. Detailed instructions for some or all of the steps may be on the wiki under imports (link) and learning to use each piece of software may also be required. That said great software design would make imports easy... It just take a great programmer that understands the beginner mapper, but can map with the masters and a LOT of programming. :p Dale On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.com wrote: The exchange between Frank Cox and others about importing data is a perfect example of an ongoing problem with this list: Many of the discussions and answers are simply too GIS geeky for the vast majority of us. I'm not entirely sure this is helping to address your concerns, but I just created a checklist for importing which should help: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#A_checklist The goal is to provide a quick overview of the steps in importing data. This can certainly be expanded, so please do so. Replies should probably go to the imports@ list rather than talk-us@, since it's not talk-us@ specific. -Josh ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
