[Talk-us] SC / NC / TN events?
Hi All, Are there any OpenStreetMap events planned for the next few weeks in the Greenville, SC / Spartanberg TN / Asheville NC area? I'm travelling for a bit and always enjoy meeting with other mappers. Post your public events here. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding?
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: > > The data that Bryce is talking to us about is post office locations. > And even this, as we've begun to dig into it, is of limited value to > the project, since we have to do the geocoding for this data. > > It's still worth discussing with USPS, both for political and > technical reasons, but this is a very limited subset of our data and > not the same as the USPS "crown jewel" of all US addresses. At SOTM-US (State of the Map US) I spoke to Steven Johnson of the Census Bureau on the issue of what data USPS actually has internally (as the Census Bureau has some special licensed access to this data). Apparently, the USPS does not even know the geocoordinates of most of their assets (e.g. post boxes, post offices, delivery addresses). They do have a near perfect database of *what* these assets are, just not the coordinates. And that itself is useful. Knowing a postbox exists is a huge clue to geocoding it. Knowing a postbox has been removed from service is a huge clue. All this opens up an opportunity. If OSM is given a database of approximate postbox locations, hand mappers can find the dang things, and add value even for the USPS itself. Until USPS is willing or able to send their own carriers out to survey their own assets, OSM can do something USPS can't do itself. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding?
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Mark Newnham wrote: > I work in the Uitilities/Billing industry and do a reasonable amount of > work in addressing quality (in order to get lower USPS rates with things > like the Intelligent Mail Barcoder and suchlike). I'd just like to throw a > couple of things in to enhance the discussionThere are plenty of tools > that the USPS supplies to enhance address quality. > https://www.usps.com/business/manage-address-quality.htm > Hope this helps the discussion > To be clear: the USPS tools are geared to taking an existing list of addresses, and correcting them. The USPS works very hard to not be a source of previously unknown addresses (for whatever reason: they could do far better than most private mailing list vendors). Licence restrictions abound. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding?
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Mark Newnham wrote: >a. Both Google and Openstreetmap don't know anything about actual > addresses in the US. For reverse geocode purposes, they just guess based on > the approximate lat/long location. > > b. An easy example to show you is this - A search for "6188 South Poplar > St, Centennial. CO" in both google and openstreetmap will both return > results - Google will even give you a Streetview. But that property simply > doesn't exist. It never has/ It's easy to understand how you came to this conclusion, but what's happening inside is a bit different than this. What's happenijng when you search for this address in OSM is that you're using a service called Nominatim. What Nominatim is doing is saying "I don't know about this address, but I do know about this street, so I'm going to do my best to give you the information you've asked for". If you click on the details link in Nominatim from this query, it says that this address is estimated. I can't speak for Google and what its geocoder is doing. > USPS provides an easy to understand, comprehensive addressing method that > would allow OSM to provide a consistent addressing methodology to addresses. > For example, An armchair mapper might map an address like North Caley as > North Caley, Nort Caley NTH Caley or N Caley. (These are the most common > ways by the way for manually entered addresses). Yes, but they won't give us access to this data, so it's a bit of a moot point. The data that Bryce is talking to us about is post office locations. And even this, as we've begun to dig into it, is of limited value to the project, since we have to do the geocoding for this data. It's still worth discussing with USPS, both for political and technical reasons, but this is a very limited subset of our data and not the same as the USPS "crown jewel" of all US addresses. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding?
I work in the Uitilities/Billing industry and do a reasonable amount of work in addressing quality (in order to get lower USPS rates with things like the Intelligent Mail Barcoder and suchlike). I'd just like to throw a couple of things in to enhance the discussion. 1. In 90% of cases in the US, The physical address (which can be found using a reverse geocode) is the Postal Address. Obvious areas of difference are: a. PO Boxes b. Rural Areas where there is no mail delivery. But in this case, the Physical address can be found using a reverse geocode. 2. In an earlier part of the thread, someone mentioned PO Boxes. These are Mailing Addresses not physical addresss. The distinction is important. 3. Importantly - a. Both Google and Openstreetmap don't know anything about actual addresses in the US. For reverse geocode purposes, they just guess based on the approximate lat/long location. b. An easy example to show you is this - A search for "6188 South Poplar St, Centennial. CO" in both google and openstreetmap will both return results - Google will even give you a Streetview. But that property simply doesn't exist. It never has/ c. If you go to USPS, https://tools.usps.com/go/POLocatorAction.action they know that it doesn't exist. This is the address quality that USPS supplies. USPS provides an easy to understand, comprehensive addressing method that would allow OSM to provide a consistent addressing methodology to addresses. For example, An armchair mapper might map an address like North Caley as North Caley, Nort Caley NTH Caley or N Caley. (These are the most common ways by the way for manually entered addresses). The only reverse 911 addresses I have provided are validated USPS addresses. If the USPS standard was applied to addressing (and it is a standard that everyone in the US knows and understands) then OSM would be gain a leap in addressing quality. In fact, I would imagine that 75% of the work could be done by Bots There are plenty of tools that the USPS supplies to enhance address quality. https://www.usps.com/business/manage-address-quality.htm Hope this helps the discussion Mark From: Bryce Nesbitt To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Richard Welty wrote: Surveying postal addresses by opening mailboxes (illegal) or knocking on doors doesn't seem feasible. >> >> but the enhanced 911 addresses are basically the same as the postal >addresses and have the potential to become available. i'm working on >that in my part of upstate NY. e911 is a very hopeful source for OSM: high quality coding would be huge. For good background, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireline_enhanced_911 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
