Re: [Talk-us] Ferries
Interesting idea, but since there's not a whole ton of ferry terminals worldwide, I don't know if it would be worthwhile to create a whole new highway=* tag just for this. I don't really mind the service=ferry tag; it would be less complicated in getting it to render. -Compdude On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Evin Fairchild evindf...@gmail.comwrote: When I made relations for all the state highways in Washington, I included the ferry routes and the ferry access roads in the highway route relation. I also have done some edits to ferry terminals, adding a way for each lane in the ferry waiting lot. This was previously done at some ferry terminals in BC. I agree with tagging the ferry terminal roads with service=ferry. The service=ferry works for me, but I'd like to point out that it isn't consistent with other highway tags linking different road segments. The wiki describes motorway_link, primary_link, etc. Rather than describe the normally short road segment as a service road, why not highway=ferry_link? service=ferry does have the advantage that the render wouldn't stumble. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
This is not a concern in WA, there's no state highways that have the same number as US or Interstate highways. -compdude On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Eric Fischer e...@pobox.com wrote: California gives State, US, and Interstate roads unique signed numbers within the state, but not all states do. Interstate 64 in southern Indiana is close enough to State Road 64 to cause frequent confusion. Eric On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote: On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Nathan Mills wrote: On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote: If my GPS tells me to turn right at the entrance to East Interstate Whatever and the sign says North Interstate Whatever, I'm going to be confused and wonder if I'm actually making the correct turn. Even more so if it's a printed list of directions. I can't say for the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways, but the single and double digit Interstates all seem to have on ramp signs that use their nominal direction rather than the compass direction at that particular location. At least that is my understanding from what I've read about the rules and conventions that are supposed to be used and I have never noticed an exception. For what it is worth, it is my understanding that within a state the use of a particular number, at least outside of triple digit urban beltways and penetration Interstates, is supposed to be unique. So if I-10 goes through your state, there will be no US10 nor a state highway 10. I haven't paid much attention to this in other states I've visited but it seems to hold true for California. If true throughout the US then it could be used to help validate highway route numbers. Confusion in California comes in two flavors: In Southern California there is a popular tendency to call freeways by a name (e.g. The Ventura) and use the actual direction the road goes for that named segment (east/west for the Ventura) when giving directions. But the named segment might be on a US or Interstate with a different nominal direction. This bit me years ago when we were mailing out wedding directions and I assumed the on ramp from the hotel area would be labeled for the eastbound Ventura Freeway when, upon checking, it turned out to be labeled for southbound US101. In the San Francisco Bay Area the confusion comes from the fact that the only Interstate to enter the area is I-80. So all the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways have to have a suffix of 80 (even number implying east/west) even if the road is north/south. So we have 280, 580, 680, 880, etc. all going in different directions. Southern California avoids this by having I-5, I-8, I-10 and I-15 enter the area, so I-210 is basically east/west while I-405 and I-215 are basically north/south. -Tod ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Ferries
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Evin Fairchild evindf...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting idea, but since there's not a whole ton of ferry terminals worldwide, I don't know if it would be worthwhile to create a whole new highway=* tag just for this. I don't really mind the service=ferry tag; it would be less complicated in getting it to render. If service=ferry tag is acceptable to everyone, what about passenger only ferries? For example, http://osm.org/go/WIdFBwTUx-- includes both car ferry, and passenager only ferries here in Seattle. How does Telenav do walking routing? -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Saikrishna Arcot wrote: Just to add, three-digit routes tend to be either regional or be loop-shaped, where the designated direction changes. On Thu 17 Oct 2013 03:40:07 PM EDT, Ian Dees wrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? (Sorry, meant to send this to the list yesterday): I am not pointing to an authoritative source of Interstate numbering, though I believe this to be accurate or at least very close: it is my understanding that in three-digit routes xyz, these are belt or spur routes off of the yz route, where x=even means belt and x=odd means spur (single connection back to or out from the parent yz route). A belt has two connections to the parent route, but I'm not positive if that is exactly two or not. We have an example in California in the South Bay (area of San Francisco) of 280 and 680 (together) being a belt that connects to 80 (twice, well, almost twice). The split between these two happens sort of conveniently at US-101. Yes, E-W even and N-S odd is correct. Furthermore, routes ending in 0 or 5 are major routes. Remember, directions are for long-distance motorways (Interstate freeways, in local parlance). A bit of local wander in an off direction happens to a lot of roads. Many of these are direction-specific routed roads. That's OK, consider these a local bend in the road. We have roads here signed north which go south. That just means we have geography (coastlines, mountains, et cetera) together with get me from San Francisco to New Jersey on a single named road. 80/580 through Berkeley are an especially wild example of this. It's just local geography messing with long-distance cardinal direction routing. It does that! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.comwrote: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29: In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations. Field signage is sometimes inconsistent with the official rules; for example, US 68 is mostly (entirely?) signed north-south, and I-69 becomes east-west between Lansing and Port Huron. States may have their own rules; some states (MS, FL) follow the even-odd rules that the national routes do, some use an opposite pattern (even N-S, odd E-W), and some have no pattern at all (GA, TN). There are also cases of signage by loop nesting (inner clockwise/outer counterclockwise for RHD) - I-495 around Washington and I-440 around Raleigh NC are examples, along with GA 10 Loop around Athens GA. And in Canada the QEW is directionally signed by destination (Toronto on the clockwise carriageway, Niagara and then Fort Erie on the counterclockwise one). There may be a few more oddballs I've missed. IMO preferred practice should be a relation for each continuous cardinal direction, to keep validation simple; undivided roads should use forward/backward roles to distinguish which relation applies to the underlying way's forward/backward traversal. It shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with an algorithm to fixup the existing single-relation cases, particularly for the ones where the routes are entirely dual carriageway, although occasionally the heuristics will be wrong and need a manual edit. Chris ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Chris, the QEW has three destinations on the counterclockwise direction. In addition to having Niagara and Fort Erie, between Toronto and Hamilton, it's posted for Hamilton. After Hamilton, it then becomes Niagara. I should know, I've traveled the QEW several times in my life. -James From: lordsu...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:59:58 -0400 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29 : In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations.Field signage is sometimes inconsistent with the official rules; for example, US 68 is mostly (entirely?) signed north-south, and I-69 becomes east-west between Lansing and Port Huron. States may have their own rules; some states (MS, FL) follow the even-odd rules that the national routes do, some use an opposite pattern (even N-S, odd E-W), and some have no pattern at all (GA, TN). There are also cases of signage by loop nesting (inner clockwise/outer counterclockwise for RHD) - I-495 around Washington and I-440 around Raleigh NC are examples, along with GA 10 Loop around Athens GA. And in Canada the QEW is directionally signed by destination (Toronto on the clockwise carriageway, Niagara and then Fort Erie on the counterclockwise one). There may be a few more oddballs I've missed. IMO preferred practice should be a relation for each continuous cardinal direction, to keep validation simple; undivided roads should use forward/backward roles to distinguish which relation applies to the underlying way's forward/backward traversal. It shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with an algorithm to fixup the existing single-relation cases, particularly for the ones where the routes are entirely dual carriageway, although occasionally the heuristics will be wrong and need a manual edit. Chris ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
