Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
Hi all, I think this is a good spot to put this thread to rest. We've answered the question at hand and have since strayed a bit off topic. -Your friendly list moderator On Mar 4, 2014 8:48 AM, "Martin Koppenhoefer" wrote: > > 2014-03-04 15:32 GMT+01:00 Serge Wroclawski : > >> We don't store historical information in OSM. There are other projects >> which do, but OSM looks at what's currently in the ground. >> > > > > yes, and no, we do store in small niches also historic information in the > main project, e.g. with the tags start_date and end_date, with the tag > old_name and variants of this tag, with the disused and abandoned tags etc. > A former school might also be an actual object, i.e. you might be able on > the ground to see that there is a school which is closed (hence > amenity=school doesn't fit, but disused:amenity=school or building=school > could be accurate descriptions of what is on the ground). To decide you > will have to know the area where you are mapping, deducting this from the > name tag of an import is most likely not very "ground-truthy" I agree. > > cheers, > Martin > > > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
We need to be able to distinguish between the object no longer being present, and the object still being present but its usage having changed. If it is likely to be of historical and/or landmark interest, tagging both the historical name and current name is useful. Original Message From: Serge Wroclawski Sent: March 4, 2014 8:09:01 AM CST To: Theodin Cc: Open Street Map Talk-US Subject: Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical) All gnis objects that are "(historical)" are no longer present and should be removed. - Serge On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:38 AM, Theodin wrote: > Hi fellow mappers, > > While doing some TIGER cleanup, I often stumble over historical schools > tagged as: > amenity=school > name=some small town school (historical) > > which are rendered on the map with their name. Are there any ideas for a > better tagging as most of > them (all?) arent really schools any more. > I tagged some as > historic=school > which was in the database 80 times. Any better ideas? > > Regards, > Theodin > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
2014-03-04 15:32 GMT+01:00 Serge Wroclawski : > We don't store historical information in OSM. There are other projects > which do, but OSM looks at what's currently in the ground. > yes, and no, we do store in small niches also historic information in the main project, e.g. with the tags start_date and end_date, with the tag old_name and variants of this tag, with the disused and abandoned tags etc. A former school might also be an actual object, i.e. you might be able on the ground to see that there is a school which is closed (hence amenity=school doesn't fit, but disused:amenity=school or building=school could be accurate descriptions of what is on the ground). To decide you will have to know the area where you are mapping, deducting this from the name tag of an import is most likely not very "ground-truthy" I agree. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
Ok Serge,thanks for the encouragement! I have seen schools in the middle of the forrest in a natural park so chances are big there never was a school at that location at all . Ever. :) Thanks, Theodin Am 04.03.2014 15:32, schrieb Serge Wroclawski: > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Theodin wrote: >> OK. It says the same on the GNIS-Wiki-page so Im going to do that in the >> future. Although it might >> be a valid information for history-buffs to get an image of how things were. > We don't store historical information in OSM. There are other projects > which do, but OSM looks at what's currently in the ground. Also, gnis > tags are notiously wrong by large distances, sometimes up to 1km. > > They're a classic example of the kind of data that, once imported, > people are afraif to touch. I had to explain to a mapper recently who > knew that a school wasn't present where the map said it was, that it > was allright to delete it. > > He'd been to the location himself and found out that it wasn't a > school at all, but it was a drug rehab center! Despite having been > there and knowing this, he was afraid of "messing up the import". > This was an OSMer who'se been an active contributor for years. > > This is why imports can have "dangerous side effects". > > - Serge > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Theodin wrote: > OK. It says the same on the GNIS-Wiki-page so Im going to do that in the > future. Although it might > be a valid information for history-buffs to get an image of how things were. We don't store historical information in OSM. There are other projects which do, but OSM looks at what's currently in the ground. Also, gnis tags are notiously wrong by large distances, sometimes up to 1km. They're a classic example of the kind of data that, once imported, people are afraif to touch. I had to explain to a mapper recently who knew that a school wasn't present where the map said it was, that it was allright to delete it. He'd been to the location himself and found out that it wasn't a school at all, but it was a drug rehab center! Despite having been there and knowing this, he was afraid of "messing up the import". This was an OSMer who'se been an active contributor for years. This is why imports can have "dangerous side effects". - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
2014-03-04 15:19 GMT+01:00 Theodin : > OK. It says the same on the GNIS-Wiki-page so Im going to do that in the > future. Although it might > be a valid information for history-buffs to get an image of how things > were. > I would only delete it if there is no building at all. Agree that it is not an "amenity", but if a building is errected as school it will somehow be recognizable (often) as such, i.e. the building type is still "school" even if there is no school there (unless the building underwent heavy restructuring / modifications). cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
OK. It says the same on the GNIS-Wiki-page so Im going to do that in the future. Although it might be a valid information for history-buffs to get an image of how things were. Regards, Theodin Am 04.03.2014 15:09, schrieb Serge Wroclawski: > All gnis objects that are "(historical)" are no longer present and > should be removed. > > - Serge > > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:38 AM, Theodin wrote: >> Hi fellow mappers, >> >> While doing some TIGER cleanup, I often stumble over historical schools >> tagged as: >> amenity=school >> name=some small town school (historical) >> >> which are rendered on the map with their name. Are there any ideas for a >> better tagging as most of >> them (all?) arent really schools any more. >> I tagged some as >> historic=school >> which was in the database 80 times. Any better ideas? >> >> Regards, >> Theodin >> >> ___ >> Talk-us mailing list >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
All gnis objects that are "(historical)" are no longer present and should be removed. - Serge On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:38 AM, Theodin wrote: > Hi fellow mappers, > > While doing some TIGER cleanup, I often stumble over historical schools > tagged as: > amenity=school > name=some small town school (historical) > > which are rendered on the map with their name. Are there any ideas for a > better tagging as most of > them (all?) arent really schools any more. > I tagged some as > historic=school > which was in the database 80 times. Any better ideas? > > Regards, > Theodin > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
2014-03-04 11:38 GMT+01:00 Theodin : > which are rendered on the map with their name. Are there any ideas for a > better tagging as most of > them (all?) arent really schools any more. > I tagged some as > historic=school > which was in the database 80 times. Any better ideas? > they shouldn't be tagged as amenity=school if they aren't currently used as school, and the name-tag shouldn't contain descriptions like "(historical)". There are several possibilities to deal with this, probably also depending on the situation (e.g. how long it is that there was an actual school). On way is to use prefixes, e.g. disused:amenity=school or abandoned:amenity=school etc. this is preferable over adding a attribute like disused=yes as the latter would provoke misinterpretations (if you don't search for these status attributes), a risk that is circumvented with the prefix. Another way is to simply tag the building as what it is and don't use any amenity at all, e.g. building=school (= this is a building of the building type school) name=* (should be the name of the building in this case, as name always refers to where it is attached to) etc. you can of course also use historic=school but I would personally prefer one of the two ways described above, the first for not so long closed schools and the second for the rest. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] historic schools (amenity=school; name= * (historical)
Hi fellow mappers, While doing some TIGER cleanup, I often stumble over historical schools tagged as: amenity=school name=some small town school (historical) which are rendered on the map with their name. Are there any ideas for a better tagging as most of them (all?) arent really schools any more. I tagged some as historic=school which was in the database 80 times. Any better ideas? Regards, Theodin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
