Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP
CDPs make for nice cartographic labeling in areas where there are no other official towns. e.g. http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/villeda.map-atyd5cky.html#11/39.3356/-76.5905 On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us wrote: On 2014-06-11 09:09, Clifford Snow wrote: I can not search for an address in part of unincorporated King County, WA when using the postal city. Fails - 7732 234th Place Northeast, Redmond, WA The search works when omitting the postal city. The search returns the CDP, Union Hill-Novelty Hill at the correct location. Passes - 7732 234th Place Northeast, WA The building is tagged as follows: addr:city=Redmond addr:housenumber=7732 addr:street=234th Place Northeast addr:postcode=98053 name=7732 Is this a problem with nominatim or the CDP boundary? I'm resigned to the idea that Nominatim only gives reverse absolute paths, not addresses. I've mapped many residential and retail developments with named landuses, so Nominatim now gives results like: 3, Highridge Circle, Stoneybrook, Loveland, Hamilton, Ohio, 45140, United States http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=42703202 (where Stoneybrook is a named landuse=residential) The tagging is correct, but Nominatim is a tad too aggressive in this case. Its behavior probably makes sense for rural, poorly mapped areas, but not for built-up, well-mapped ones. -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP
On 2014-06-23 06:20, Elliott Plack wrote: CDPs make for nice cartographic labeling in areas where there are no other official towns. e.g. http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/villeda.map-atyd5cky.html#11/39.3356/-76.5905 That's often true, but it's strange for Nominatim to include these names in what might otherwise appear to be addresses. CDPs and landuse areas would make more sense if Nominatim used more prepositions: 123 Caribou Crossing near Tigertown in Real Township, -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] How is Scout?
Hi all! We launched Scout for iOS powered by OpenStreetMap a little over a month ago now, followed by the Android version in early June. While the feedback in general has been overwhelmingly positive, I am really curious to hear about your experiences. Have you tried Scout? What are your impressions? Have you given any feedback using the map error reporting function in the app? Nothing major to report from our side. We're looking closely at the map feedback coming in through the apps. Our main objective right now is to make sure the feedback we get is useful so we can fix OSM based on it where necessary. Of course, we would like to involve you in that process - either through MapRoulette, or OSM notes, or some other means - but right now there is too much 'noise' for that to work without us looking at every report first. Which is what we are doing. You may see the odd note appear on the map as a result of this. (see an example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/187143) Some other OSM related things we're working on currently: * We are fixing ways in OSM that are marked with fixme=dual carriageway (or a variant thereof). * We are adding exit_to information to selected stretches of freeway * We are working on getting fresh data to Scout users faster (currently 2 weeks). * I am working on improving MapRoulette - specifically better statistics As always, feel free to email me directly with questions, feedback or concerns! -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I can not search for an address in part of unincorporated King County, WA when using the postal city. Fails - 7732 234th Place Northeast, Redmond, WA The search works when omitting the postal city. The search returns the CDP, Union Hill-Novelty Hill at the correct location. Passes - 7732 234th Place Northeast, WA The building is tagged as follows: addr:city=Redmond addr:housenumber=7732 addr:street=234th Place Northeast addr:postcode=98053 name=7732 Is this a problem with nominatim or the CDP boundary? I have nothing to add to the CDP discussion but that is not your problem here. I looked at this after my own address import. This is definitely a Nominatim issue. What happens is that Nominatim associates address points with roads. In order to reduce duplication, some information is associated with roads instead of on the individual address points themselves. This includes addr:city which is assigned to roads based on containment within an administrative boundary, not based on any addr:city tags on address nodes. You could fix this by adding an addr:city tag to the road that these addresses belong to. This overrides any admin boundary containment. However this seems like a case of tagging for the geocoder and I think Nominatim needs to be changed to make this problem better. Like, if all addresses being associated with a given road have the same addr:city tag on them then it should carry that over to the road and override anything Nominatim comes up with on its own. As an example I did add an addr:city tag to one road: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/13226787 Notice that if you search for an address along Cottonwood Circle with Manhattan in the search (ex: 3700 Cottonwood Circle, Manhattan, KS) it finds it. But if you search for an address on the neighboring road (ex: 6001 Stony Brook Drive, Manhattan, KS) it finds nothing until you remove the Manhattan at which point it finds the address but reports it to be simply in Riley County. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
Martijn, I like it so far! It is hard to part ways with Waze but I do like that the Scout data is all OSM. Question, I occasionally get some weird routing. Is there a good place to discuss these things? Here, twitter, etc? Elliott On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com wrote: Hi all! We launched Scout for iOS powered by OpenStreetMap a little over a month ago now, followed by the Android version in early June. While the feedback in general has been overwhelmingly positive, I am really curious to hear about your experiences. Have you tried Scout? What are your impressions? Have you given any feedback using the map error reporting function in the app? Nothing major to report from our side. We're looking closely at the map feedback coming in through the apps. Our main objective right now is to make sure the feedback we get is useful so we can fix OSM based on it where necessary. Of course, we would like to involve you in that process - either through MapRoulette, or OSM notes, or some other means - but right now there is too much 'noise' for that to work without us looking at every report first. Which is what we are doing. You may see the odd note appear on the map as a result of this. (see an example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/187143) Some other OSM related things we're working on currently: * We are fixing ways in OSM that are marked with fixme=dual carriageway (or a variant thereof). * We are adding exit_to information to selected stretches of freeway * We are working on getting fresh data to Scout users faster (currently 2 weeks). * I am working on improving MapRoulette - specifically better statistics As always, feel free to email me directly with questions, feedback or concerns! -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
Elliott - if it's not OSM specific but more Scout specific, it's probably best to email me directly. I can make sure that the right people are notified if there's a bug. Martijn On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com wrote: Martijn, I like it so far! It is hard to part ways with Waze but I do like that the Scout data is all OSM. Question, I occasionally get some weird routing. Is there a good place to discuss these things? Here, twitter, etc? Elliott On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com wrote: Hi all! We launched Scout for iOS powered by OpenStreetMap a little over a month ago now, followed by the Android version in early June. While the feedback in general has been overwhelmingly positive, I am really curious to hear about your experiences. Have you tried Scout? What are your impressions? Have you given any feedback using the map error reporting function in the app? Nothing major to report from our side. We're looking closely at the map feedback coming in through the apps. Our main objective right now is to make sure the feedback we get is useful so we can fix OSM based on it where necessary. Of course, we would like to involve you in that process - either through MapRoulette, or OSM notes, or some other means - but right now there is too much 'noise' for that to work without us looking at every report first. Which is what we are doing. You may see the odd note appear on the map as a result of this. (see an example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/187143) Some other OSM related things we're working on currently: * We are fixing ways in OSM that are marked with fixme=dual carriageway (or a variant thereof). * We are adding exit_to information to selected stretches of freeway * We are working on getting fresh data to Scout users faster (currently 2 weeks). * I am working on improving MapRoulette - specifically better statistics As always, feel free to email me directly with questions, feedback or concerns! -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
Although I don't use it for navigation purposes, it is very cool to have an OSM routing application in my pocket. The ability to play around with an OSM routing engine so easily has caused me to: 1) Identify and fix roads OSM believes are connected that are in fact not and remove them 2) Identify and fix roads OSM believes are not connected that in fact are Playing with a routing engine really makes it easy (and fun?) for you to go huh, that's not right... what is going on here?, look in OSM, and find something to fix. My neighborhood is especially complex, so I look forward to telling Lyft drivers to use Scout rather than Apple/Google maps if they actually wan't to find their way to my house! I guess my only 'negative' feedback is that the lag between me fixing something and actually getting to test the updated routing in Scout. It would be nice to know the update schedule for the routing engine or to receive a notification when the routing engine has received an update. For example, I might not use Scout because I know a particular route it is providing is incorrect and is a result of OSM data being out of data in Scout. This is more from the perspective of the feedback loop of an OSM contributor and not your standard Scout user I suppose. However, if Scout is helping me identify issues with OSM, normal Scout users should be able to take advantage of the updates the community has made based on the routing engine. Daniel Bozeman On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com wrote: Elliott - if it's not OSM specific but more Scout specific, it's probably best to email me directly. I can make sure that the right people are notified if there's a bug. Martijn On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com wrote: Martijn, I like it so far! It is hard to part ways with Waze but I do like that the Scout data is all OSM. Question, I occasionally get some weird routing. Is there a good place to discuss these things? Here, twitter, etc? Elliott On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Martijn van Exel marti...@telenav.com wrote: Hi all! We launched Scout for iOS powered by OpenStreetMap a little over a month ago now, followed by the Android version in early June. While the feedback in general has been overwhelmingly positive, I am really curious to hear about your experiences. Have you tried Scout? What are your impressions? Have you given any feedback using the map error reporting function in the app? Nothing major to report from our side. We're looking closely at the map feedback coming in through the apps. Our main objective right now is to make sure the feedback we get is useful so we can fix OSM based on it where necessary. Of course, we would like to involve you in that process - either through MapRoulette, or OSM notes, or some other means - but right now there is too much 'noise' for that to work without us looking at every report first. Which is what we are doing. You may see the odd note appear on the map as a result of this. (see an example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/187143) Some other OSM related things we're working on currently: * We are fixing ways in OSM that are marked with fixme=dual carriageway (or a variant thereof). * We are adding exit_to information to selected stretches of freeway * We are working on getting fresh data to Scout users faster (currently 2 weeks). * I am working on improving MapRoulette - specifically better statistics As always, feel free to email me directly with questions, feedback or concerns! -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
I can notify this list whenever we drop new data, if we agree that this is not too spammy. -- Martijn From: Boze theb...@gmail.commailto:theb...@gmail.com Date: Monday, June 23, 2014 at 3:02 PM To: Martijn Van Exel marti...@telenav.commailto:marti...@telenav.com Cc: OSM US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.orgmailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout? It would be nice to know the update schedule for the routing engine or to receive a notification when the routing engine has received an update. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
Martijn, How often would this be? If it's once every few months, that might not be so bad, but if it's more frequently, maybe Twitter would be better. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] How is Scout?
I would be very embarrassed if it were only every few months :) This would be more like every two weeks. I like the Twitter idea. I'll use my own account (@mvexel) for that for now. With a hashtag of some kind probably. On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Martijn, How often would this be? If it's once every few months, that might not be so bad, but if it's more frequently, maybe Twitter would be better. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] exit_to vs destination
Hi all, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:exit_to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination While motorway_junction= + exit_to= is much more common here in the US than destination= for freeway exit tagging, we seem to be the exception globally. Before we embark on adding exit information (as mentioned in my earlier note) I want to make sure that exit_to is still the preferred way of exit information tagging for the US. Personally I dislike exit_to for its limitations (how to tag lane-specific destination information?) and poor documentation, but it is much easier to tag and BY FAR the more popular way to tag this type of information. But given the previous lengthy discussion threads, I didn't want to just make the call. I don't want to rehash points already made in previous threads, most of which are summarized here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:exit_to but I am open to new insights! -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] exit_to vs destination
On 6/23/2014 6:58 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: While motorway_junction= + exit_to= is much more common here in the US than destination= for freeway exit tagging, we seem to be the exception globally. I have no objection to changing to a system that is more informative and adaptable. exit_to gained popularity in the US because it was the first tagging scheme available at the time the Interstates were being identified. Most of this could be automatically converted to 'destination=', except that there is a growing dislike of any botlike edits. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] exit_to vs destination
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Most of this could be automatically converted to 'destination=', except that there is a growing dislike of any botlike edits. We should approach automated edits with a great deal of caution - but that's a separate discussion. I think converting exit_to to destination would be hard to do anyway because exit_to is added to the motorway_junction node, whereas destination is on a way. That could get ugly really fast, don't you think? -- Martijn van Exel President, US Chapter OpenStreetMap http://openstreetmap.us/ http://osm.org/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] exit_to vs destination
On 6/23/2014 7:16 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Most of this could be automatically converted to 'destination=', except that there is a growing dislike of any botlike edits. We should approach automated edits with a great deal of caution - but that's a separate discussion. I think converting exit_to to destination would be hard to do anyway because exit_to is added to the motorway_junction node, whereas destination is on a way. That could get ugly really fast, don't you think? I haven't examined the destination tag, but just moving the information from the node to the correct attached way would be straightforward.Of course any non-regular cases could be flagged for manual work - such as terminating in a Y with an exit_to:left and exit_to:right. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I have nothing to add to the CDP discussion but that is not your problem here. I looked at this after my own address import. This is definitely a Nominatim issue. What happens is that Nominatim associates address points with roads. In order to reduce duplication, some information is associated with roads instead of on the individual address points themselves. This includes addr:city which is assigned to roads based on containment within an administrative boundary, not based on any addr:city tags on address nodes. You could fix this by adding an addr:city tag to the road that these addresses belong to. This overrides any admin boundary containment. However this seems like a case of tagging for the geocoder and I think Nominatim needs to be changed to make this problem better. Like, if all addresses being associated with a given road have the same addr:city tag on them then it should carry that over to the road and override anything Nominatim comes up with on its own. As an example I did add an addr:city tag to one road: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/13226787 Notice that if you search for an address along Cottonwood Circle with Manhattan in the search (ex: 3700 Cottonwood Circle, Manhattan, KS) it finds it. But if you search for an address on the neighboring road (ex: 6001 Stony Brook Drive, Manhattan, KS) it finds nothing until you remove the Manhattan at which point it finds the address but reports it to be simply in Riley County. I'll report a bug to Nominatim since I started this. Putting addr:city on a highway doesn't seem right. Especially if the road isn't in the city boundary although less tagging than adding a city tag to each address node. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Nominatim in CDP
I reported this as a bug in trac. See https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/5190 Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] (no subject)
Supreme Court rules for a second time that indian nations are domestic dependent nations with inherent sovereign authority. This affirms that indian reservations are higher than the state level, lower than the federal level. This sounds like the SCOTUS just reaffirmed a case for indian reservations being tagged as admin_level=3, if we're tagging for accurate status and not for the renderer. Thoughts? http://www2.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/Mich_v_Bay_Mills_Indian_Cmty_No_12515_US_May_27_2014_Court_Opinio ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] (no subject)
On 2014-06-23 8:41 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: Supreme Court rules for a second time that indian nations are domestic dependent nations with inherent sovereign authority. This affirms that indian reservations are higher than the state level, lower than the federal level. This sounds like the SCOTUS just reaffirmed a case for indian reservations being tagged as admin_level=3, if we're tagging for accurate status and not for the renderer. Thoughts? http://www2.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/Mich_v_Bay_Mills_Indian_Cmty_No_12515_US_May_27_2014_Court_Opinio Having read through the decision, it's about tribal immunity for acts outside Indian* territory. Do you propose cutting the areas out of the states, i.e. so that IRs are not in any admin_level=4 relations? That's what you have to do if you're fitting IRs into the admin_level hierarchy. * The term used in the legal case ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] End of an Era, data collection to slow in Oklahoma, project announcement
Alright, after nearly 110,000 miles, 4000 notes, 2000 trips, 2 years, and an epic road trip from Portland, Oregon to Long Beach, California to Tulsa, Oklahoma via Historic Route 66, I'm leaving my current position as a leading field service engineer in Northeast Oklahoma to take a job as a support engineer with a local internet hosting company. What does this mean? My GPX uploads and creation of OSM notes is going to become more sporadic, and someone in Oklahoma's going to have the opportunity to out-edit me (maybe, I still have a massive backlog, plus ongoing projects inspired by my current, coming-to-an-end job). As a result, I'm also going to be pulling back on watching out for and maintaining construction zones outside the Tulsa City-County network and OklaDOT's Tulsa zone (I don't think I have any mapped construction zones outside this area at this time). I'm not leaving the OpenStreetMap project, though out of a want to continue mapping and an understanding on how OSM in Oklahoma is used actively, I'm going to become more project oriented (especially once I'm done inspecting the vicinity of the traces I collected over the last two years). Knowing the limitations and challenges of every other major mapping provider in the region in practice has left me with a unique perspective on how a map should work, and I plan on continuing my efforts to help support travelers and mobile professionals in the region until I, somehow, manage to find OSM is Complete™ (yeah, don't count on that ever happening). I'm just not going to be actively monitoring, on average, 240 highway miles per day like I have been. I've yet to properly name my current project for OSM, which has recently gotten underway and is going to take a LOT of time to complete assuming I don't get help. The basic jist of it is that I'm moving from county to county, in order of 2010 population, to complete route relations for State Highways, State Turnpikes, US Highways, and Interstate Highways in Oklahoma, with a special emphasis on ensuring route relations, lane counts, turn lanes, and placement=* tags are accurate relative to the most recent Mapbox data (or personal recollection, whichever is more recent). My ultimate goal is to make OpenStreetMap, far and away, the most useful map for navigation in Oklahoma, something I already believe we've no doubt achieved with apps like Osmand capable of inferring address lookups through Nominatim as a supplement to the physically mapped data, ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
