Re: [Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[alyssa wright]

Thank you Spencer for your thoughts!

Speaking from my own experience, I come to OSM with many blind spots and I
rely on others to help me understand what those blind spots are.

Perhaps that is one best ways academic research can contribute to OSM -- to
let us see  something new that we were not able to see before.

And thanks to Spencer for being brave enough to share your recessive eye
color [1][2].

 ;)
Alyssa


[1] Did you know that green is recessive to brown but dominant over blue?
Hope you weren't mapping during bio classes.

[2] I think it's super creative that Spencer combined the "mapping blind
spots" and "eye color" in the same thread! Yay! OSMers are so creative!

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:36 PM Spencer Gardner 
wrote:

> My thoughts are:
>
>1. The negative reactions to the study seem to be putting the cart
>before the horse. If our goal is to make OSM the most accurate and complete
>map on the planet, it makes sense to me that we would want to understand
>where our blind spots might be, whether they're due to differences in
>participation by gender, ideology, etc. I would expect a vigorous debate
>and passionate disagreement about what (if anything) to do about a blind
>spot if one is found, but that's not really the question at hand. Let's
>cross that bridge when we come to it. Of course, I'm willing to entertain
>arguments for why someone shouldn't pursue this line of inquiry but I don't
>see a compelling reason.
>2. Thanks to the OSM community (esp. Ian, Alyssa, and the rest of the
>board) for encouraging open, respectful conversation. I find my own
>feelings on topics like this to be more complicated than either of the
>screaming sides so I believe it's critical to ensure many voices are heard,
>even from those whose perspective we find difficult.
>
> Regards,
> Spencer
> (green eyes)
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 6:47 PM, alyssa wright 
> wrote:
>
>> Re your question about 
>>
>> If you are doing an academic study on eye color and OSM/VGI contribution
>> -- I'd be happy to moderate a townhall as well.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I have blue eyes (and glasses).
>>
>> Alyssa.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Joel Holdsworth > > wrote:
>>
>>> Could we have one eye colour, also? ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/09/17 17:03, Ian Dees wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind
 that we all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive
 conversation.

 I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too
 hostile towards each other again.

 -Ian


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Re: [Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[Marc Gemis]

In the old thread someone wrote (paraphrasing): I map from
photographs, so I'm not biased.

Since I map in the same way, I have a couple of thoughts. A photo is a
personal interpretation of the real world. The photographer framed the
scene, leaving out or including items. This can be conscious or
unconscious. The interpretation of the photo also depends on the
individual. I once send a photo to the osm-be mailing list and asked
people what they would map. My purpose was to see whether I missed
some things or perhaps teach people to see better and map things they
did not know you could map. Different mappers gave different answers.
This means to me that mapping from a photo is not necessarily
unbiased.

I'm not saying the person in the original thread is dishonest, I
really believe he is trying to do the best he can for OSM, but some
bias can occur.
I know I might never skip taking photos of wayside shrines or dog
parks, but I might "forget" to take a picture of a shop if I'm tired
or have taken lots of pictures during a walk.

What I am missing from all the statistics that we already have about
mappers today, is how divers we map. This can be done e.g. by counting
the number of different amenities, shops, crafts, leisures that a
mapper added and/or updated. So not counting the number of amenities
one maps, but the number of different values of amenity one mapped. Of
course this depends on how well mapped your area is or how many
different features there are in your area. But I'm not the one doing
the research.
Then one can try to see whether this "diversity number" is biased by
gender, religion, education, mother tongue or any other aspect.

E.g. I know nothing about trees, so I will not map the genus of the
trees. So what I know has an impact on OSM. Depending on the OSM
population, genus will be mapped or not. I do not know whether there
are a lot of people that know the difference between the different
species of trees in OSM. So I cannot tell whether OSM is a good,
reliable database to find out about trees in different regions. This
is just one example, please do not focus on this particular example in
your replies.

Those are interesting questions to me. I understand that others do not
care, but I hope people will allow researchers to investigate this
type of topics.

regards

m

p.s. I'm a Belgian, my first language is Dutch, so forgive me when I
didn't use the best English words. It is not my intent to insult or
shame anyone.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind that we
> all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive
> conversation.
>
> I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too
> hostile towards each other again.
>
> -Ian
>
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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER fixup for Hurricane Harvey potential impact areas

[Nick Hocking]

Hi Brian,

>From the TxDOT website I see that the road data is updated yearly, but
unfortunately the data was last published at the end of 2015.

One think I would like to make sure of, is that Texas roads are up-to-date
so that any new subdivisions that may be water affected are actually on the
OSM map.

A couple of years ago there was a "Tiger missing and misaligned 2015" layer
that I found really usefull for bringing many US cities and towns
up-to-date.

Do you know if there is (or plans for) a more recent version of this, maybe
Tiger 2017???

Also if there was a layer like this that only had missing/misaligned roads
where the Tiger data had a name tag, then new sub-divisions and any missing
streets could be easily added, all over the US (once Texas is updated).
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Re: [Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[alyssa wright]

Re your question about 

If you are doing an academic study on eye color and OSM/VGI contribution --
I'd be happy to moderate a townhall as well.

For what it's worth, I have blue eyes (and glasses).

Alyssa.



On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Joel Holdsworth 
wrote:

> Could we have one eye colour, also? ;-)
>
>
>
> On 05/09/17 17:03, Ian Dees wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind that
>> we all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive
>> conversation.
>>
>> I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too
>> hostile towards each other again.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[alyssa wright]

Thanks Ian et al. I'd also like to weigh in with two more points:

   1. It's great Zoe's academic inquiry inspired so much discussion. As
   long as it is respectful and productive, we welcome all community input.
   2. If people are interested in taking this off email and speaking more
   directly, I'd be happy to organize a townhall. Please ping me or anyone
   else on the US board and we can help make it an opportunity for us to learn
   more and be involved with this research.

Thanks,
Alyssa.

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind that
> we all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive
> conversation.
>
> I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too
> hostile towards each other again.
>
> -Ian
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[Joel Holdsworth]

Could we have one eye colour, also? ;-)


On 05/09/17 17:03, Ian Dees wrote:

Hi all,

Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind that 
we all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive 
conversation.


I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too 
hostile towards each other again.


-Ian


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[Talk-us] Gender in OpenStreetMap

[Ian Dees]

Hi all,

Let's continue the conversation on this new thread, keeping in mind that we
all need to keep our mind open and have productive and positive
conversation.

I reserve the right to add a moderated cooling off period if we get too
hostile towards each other again.

-Ian
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Joel Holdsworth]

> A simpler explanation would be that women are simply interested in other
> past-times. And what's wrong with that?


*On average* women are simply interested in other past-times. And what's 
wrong with that?


--- groan that I have to put that caveat in, or people will twist your 
words.




On 05/09/17 14:32, Joel Holdsworth wrote:



The ultimate goal for OSM should be a project which everyone feels
welcome to be a part of, and which does not have a noticeable bias
towards either gender or any given race. Also, please realize just
because women are welcome to participate in OSM, does not necessarily
mean that some women will *feel* they are welcome.



But exactly how is the project unwelcoming? How could the "Edit" button 
be welcoming to men and not women?


I didn't even know the map had strip-clubs or childcare in it - and I've 
been contributing for 10-years, so this clearly isn't an explanation for 
the gender percentages we have.


A simpler explanation would be that women are simply interested in other 
past-times. And what's wrong with that?


Joel

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Joel Holdsworth]

The ultimate goal for OSM should be a project which everyone feels
welcome to be a part of, and which does not have a noticeable bias
towards either gender or any given race. Also, please realize just
because women are welcome to participate in OSM, does not necessarily
mean that some women will *feel* they are welcome.



But exactly how is the project unwelcoming? How could the "Edit" button 
be welcoming to men and not women?


I didn't even know the map had strip-clubs or childcare in it - and I've 
been contributing for 10-years, so this clearly isn't an explanation for 
the gender percentages we have.


A simpler explanation would be that women are simply interested in other 
past-times. And what's wrong with that?


Joel

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 09/05/2017 12:48 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> This is a study, not a manifesto. All this researcher is doing
> is looking for gender bias, IF it exists, in OSM mapping.
> So, I have to ask, what would you do if she does find certain
> areas of gender bias in OSM and reports them? Would you be
> angry and quit mapping? Would you ignore the report? Or would
> you make subtle changes in your mapping to avoid that bias?
> The choice is yours.
> 
> Charlotte

Well said. Though given the number of tags we have for things like bars,
pubs, brothels, strip clubs, etc versus the lack of tags for child care
facilities, the gender imbalance kind of outs itself. That said, I don't
mind another study to get a current measurement to see if it's gotten
better or worse since the last one.

The ultimate goal for OSM should be a project which everyone feels
welcome to be a part of, and which does not have a noticeable bias
towards either gender or any given race. Also, please realize just
because women are welcome to participate in OSM, does not necessarily
mean that some women will *feel* they are welcome.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Kristin Rollins]

The very notion that studying who participates in OSM is divisive is
preposterous.

The very notion that there would be nothing to learn if a project where
"everyone has a chance to contribute if they want to" had a 99% to 1%
gender imbalance is absolutely ridiculous. If there are groups of people
who have a chance to contribute but choose not to participate, the
reasons for that are absolutely worth studying. Are there ways that OSM
could change to encourage more people to participate? Are there ways
that OSM could change how it works in a way that would produce a better
product? Or a more welcoming experience for people who aren't like you?

I also find the idea that learning more about ANYTHING is divisive to be
offensive. I find it difficult to find any legitimate reason for the
vehemence of your responses on this topic.

And, to be frank, if the price of my participation is putting up with
anti-knowledge and faux-egalitarian BS, then I suspect I will be another
woman walking out the door of OSM.

Kristin

-- 
  Kristin Rollins
  g...@kristin.verumsolum.com
  Chesapeake, VA

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017, at 02:27 PM, Joel Holdsworth wrote:
> Because the very notion that it is relevant to study OSM by gender is 
> divisive.
> 
> Who cares what the gender balance of contributors to OSM is? I don't. I 
> didn't even know what the split was until this thread. Because it 
> literally doesn't matter.
> 
> Even it were 99% women, it wouldn't matter. So long as everyone has a 
> chance to contribute if they want to.
> 
> Some people are saying about how awful it is to have a gender bias in 
> the mapped data. If it were 99% women, I would imagine there might be 
> better detail about the women's toilets. In that case, I would add data 
> about the men's. No one owes me an apology, or a commitment to change 
> their mapping habits. The solution starts with me - "Be the change you 
> want to see."
> 
> It's simple - whatever gender, race, social group you are, come and use 
> OSM. If some data you care about is missing, get mapping!
> 
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/09/17 12:14, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
> > 
> > My goodness, all this anxiety! Why are you feeling that
> > you have to justify what you map, just because someone is
> > studying it by gender?
> > 
> > Charlotte
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > At 10:10 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote:
> >> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 08:25:33 +0200 Marc Gemis  
> >> wrote: > One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female 
> >> hygiene > products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map 
> >> that, > without access to women's toilets ? > > The real question for 
> >> me is are men more likely going to map shop=car > than 
> >> shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the > 
> >> stereotyping) > will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ? > 
> >> will a roman catholic map a mosque ? > will a non-dog owner map 
> >> leisure=dog_park ? > > in short: will we map everything we see or do 
> >> we map only our > interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything 
> >> or do we only see > (and map) things we are conditioned to ? > > This 
> >> is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are
> >> > pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.
> >>
> >> I know I map what I see (or more precisely, what my camera
> >> captures). If it doesn't have a sign out front, I don't map it.
> >> To take an example from the midwives vs. strip clubs debate,
> >> the phone book lists seven midwives and/or midwife groups
> >> in the Spokane area. Of those, three are attached to hospitals
> >> and one to a community-health clinic, and so wouldn't have
> >> signs. Two are operating out of private homes and don't have
> >> signs (and I wouldn't map them if they did, just like I don't map
> >> lawn care or computer repair businesses operating out of
> >> private homes).
> >> The last one is in the 95% of the city I haven't yet photo-mapped.
> >> The phone book lists zero strip clubs in the Spokane area.
> >> Despite that, I've found and mapped one strip club: it was on a
> >> major street and had a clear sign out front.
> >> Yes, there's a bias in my mapping, but it's a bias towards
> >> "things identifiable from the street." I'm more likely to map a car
> >> store than a clothes store, because car stores are generally
> >> not found inside shopping malls. Playgrounds beat pubs,
> >> because every playground is visible from the street.  And this
> >> non-dog-owner didn't map the dog park, because it was
> >> already mapped by the time I got started.
> >>
> >> -- Mark
> >> ___
> >> Talk-us mailing list
> >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> > 
> > Charlotte Wolter
> > 927 18th Street Suite A
> > Santa Monica, California
> > 90403
> > +1-310-597-4040
> > techl...@techlady.com
> > Skype: thetechlady
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 

Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Ian Dees]

Hi everybody,

We're going to stop this thread here (at least on the lists I moderate).
Not only is it off-topic for this thread, but we're also off-topic for the
mailing list. Let's remember to keep conversations positive, constructive,
and on topic.

Thanks!
Ian, your friendly list moderator

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Joel Holdsworth 
wrote:

> Because the very notion that it is relevant to study OSM by gender is
> divisive.
>
> Who cares what the gender balance of contributors to OSM is? I don't. I
> didn't even know what the split was until this thread. Because it literally
> doesn't matter.
>
> Even it were 99% women, it wouldn't matter. So long as everyone has a
> chance to contribute if they want to.
>
> Some people are saying about how awful it is to have a gender bias in the
> mapped data. If it were 99% women, I would imagine there might be better
> detail about the women's toilets. In that case, I would add data about the
> men's. No one owes me an apology, or a commitment to change their mapping
> habits. The solution starts with me - "Be the change you want to see."
>
> It's simple - whatever gender, race, social group you are, come and use
> OSM. If some data you care about is missing, get mapping!
>
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/09/17 12:14, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>
>>
>> My goodness, all this anxiety! Why are you feeling that
>> you have to justify what you map, just because someone is
>> studying it by gender?
>>
>> Charlotte
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:10 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 08:25:33 +0200 Marc Gemis 
>>> wrote: > One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female hygiene
>>> > products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map that, >
>>> without access to women's toilets ? > > The real question for me is are men
>>> more likely going to map shop=car > than 
>>> shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/
>>> ... (sorry for the > stereotyping) > will men map leisure=playground or
>>> amenity=pub ? > will a roman catholic map a mosque ? > will a non-dog owner
>>> map leisure=dog_park ? > > in short: will we map everything we see or do we
>>> map only our > interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything or do
>>> we only see > (and map) things we are conditioned to ? > > This is not
>>> about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are
>>> > pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.
>>>
>>> I know I map what I see (or more precisely, what my camera
>>> captures). If it doesn't have a sign out front, I don't map it.
>>> To take an example from the midwives vs. strip clubs debate,
>>> the phone book lists seven midwives and/or midwife groups
>>> in the Spokane area. Of those, three are attached to hospitals
>>> and one to a community-health clinic, and so wouldn't have
>>> signs. Two are operating out of private homes and don't have
>>> signs (and I wouldn't map them if they did, just like I don't map
>>> lawn care or computer repair businesses operating out of
>>> private homes).
>>> The last one is in the 95% of the city I haven't yet photo-mapped.
>>> The phone book lists zero strip clubs in the Spokane area.
>>> Despite that, I've found and mapped one strip club: it was on a
>>> major street and had a clear sign out front.
>>> Yes, there's a bias in my mapping, but it's a bias towards
>>> "things identifiable from the street." I'm more likely to map a car
>>> store than a clothes store, because car stores are generally
>>> not found inside shopping malls. Playgrounds beat pubs,
>>> because every playground is visible from the street.  And this
>>> non-dog-owner didn't map the dog park, because it was
>>> already mapped by the time I got started.
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>> ___
>>> Talk-us mailing list
>>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
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>>>
>>
>> Charlotte Wolter
>> 927 18th Street Suite A
>> Santa Monica, California
>> 90403
>> +1-310-597-4040
>> techl...@techlady.com
>> Skype: thetechlady
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [HOT] Surveys and studies

[Nathan Mills]

I'm sorry, but the closest thing to toxicity I've seen are the overly vehement 
objections to the mere gathering of data. It might be worth examining why 
someone gathering demographic data is causing such a strong reaction.

I sincerely cannot comprehend why anyone would be against this. I can see 
"meh," I can see how someone might find it interesting or maybe even useful, 
and I can even understand finding it totally useless and asking why someone 
else finds it interesting. I can't find any reasonable objection to the 
voluntary collection of demographic data regarding OSM editors and I especially 
can't find any basis to say that it is in any way divisive or "gender-baiting."

If you don't like it, maybe just ignore it since it doesn't affect you in any 
way except receiving an extra email.

-Nathan

On September 5, 2017 2:32:33 PM EDT, Joel Holdsworth  
wrote:
>On 05/09/17 12:07, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>> If someone named Allessanbdro were in charge, a study,
>> such as Zoe's, never would happen, Clearly, from the reactions
>> on the email lists, a gender topic is very threatening to a number
>> of members.
>
>That's a quite a toxic statement.
>
>It's hard to think of a project more egalitarian than OSM. Which is why
>
>people object to the gender-baiting. It's not because they feel 
>threatened, it's because it's so divisive.
>
>Joel
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Harald Kliems]

Dear Zoe:
Thanks for doing the study -- I saw it posted earlier in OSM Weekly. I look
forward to seeing the results, whatever they may be.  And I'm quite ashamed
(but not surprised) by the open hostility your study is facing on this list
and elsewhere.

Best,
 Harald (hobbesvsboyle)

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:51 AM Zoe Gardner  wrote:

> Dear All
>
> Further to my email yesterday regard, I would like to reassure subscribers
> here that the research is bona fide. I included a link to my University
> webpage in the original post which I thought would give the survey the
> required credence.
>
> I agree with Charlotte that it would have been more credible to send the
> post from my University email and this was my error. Apologies for any lack
> of uncertainty in this respect. Please do complete the survey if you are
> inclined!
>
> Best wishes
> Zoe
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:36 PM,  wrote:
>
>> If it helps, I can confirm that I have met the researcher concerned at an
>> OSM meetup in Nottingham. We talked about the project a bit, and what's
>> been said about the research here doesn't differ from what was s‎aid then.
>>
>> Happy to answer questions from the US board if anyone thinks it will add
>> to the "web of trust" here :)
>>
>>
>> *From: *Charlotte Wolter
>> *Sent: *Monday, 4 September 2017 19:25
>> *To: *Talk-US@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject: *[Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>>
>> Follks,
>>
>> It would be nice if we could get some confirmation that this is
>> a real research projects being done by an actual researcher at Nottingham.
>> If it is legit, why is the return email address from Gmail rather than the
>> university?
>> Is there some mechanism that we can set up to confirm that the
>> research is for real, such as running it through the US board first? I
>> don't mind contributing to a survey. I just want to be sure it is for real.
>>
>> Charlotte
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Zoe Gardner 
>> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org ...snip... talk...@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear OSM talk subscriber
>>
>> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
>> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in
>> geospatial crowd-sourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
>> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
>> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially
>> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is
>> available to location-based service providers that use OSM as their primary
>> geospatial database.
>> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
>> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
>> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
>> map. However, the actual consequences of this bias remain little explored
>> or reported. By collecting information about contributors to OSM, which can
>> then be analyzed along with their editing patterns, the impacts of this
>> bias might begin to be measured and therefore better understood. I have
>> therefore published an online survey designed to collect information
>> directly from OSM editors and I would like to invite as many of you as
>> possible to participate. The survey is anonymous and takes a couple of
>> minutes to complete.
>> If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like to
>> participate in the study, please click on the link below, which will take
>> you to the Bristol Online Survey website where you will find more
>> information and an opportunity to participate in the survey. As a small
>> incentive, at the close of the survey in a few weeks' time, 60 respondents
>> will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon voucher.
>> To participate in the survey, click on the link below:
>> https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles
>> Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about the
>> way participation biases impact on crowd-sourced maps will enable new
>> strategies to be developed to address any resulting voids in the geospatial
>> information provided by amateur mappers. In turn this could strengthen the
>> role played by platforms such as OSM in urban planning and sustainability,
>> and could raise the profile of the important mapping work that you all do.
>> In the meantime, if you would like to know more about me, my research
>> activities or the project, please visit my University webpage (link below)
>> and do not hesitate to get in touch directly or via the OSM messaging
>> service.
>> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner
>> Thank you
>>
>> Zoe
>> ___
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>> 

Re: [Talk-us] [HOT] Surveys and studies

[Joel Holdsworth]

On 05/09/17 12:07, Charlotte Wolter wrote:

If someone named Allessanbdro were in charge, a study,
such as Zoe's, never would happen, Clearly, from the reactions
on the email lists, a gender topic is very threatening to a number
of members.


That's a quite a toxic statement.

It's hard to think of a project more egalitarian than OSM. Which is why 
people object to the gender-baiting. It's not because they feel 
threatened, it's because it's so divisive.


Joel

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Joel Holdsworth]

Because the very notion that it is relevant to study OSM by gender is 
divisive.


Who cares what the gender balance of contributors to OSM is? I don't. I 
didn't even know what the split was until this thread. Because it 
literally doesn't matter.


Even it were 99% women, it wouldn't matter. So long as everyone has a 
chance to contribute if they want to.


Some people are saying about how awful it is to have a gender bias in 
the mapped data. If it were 99% women, I would imagine there might be 
better detail about the women's toilets. In that case, I would add data 
about the men's. No one owes me an apology, or a commitment to change 
their mapping habits. The solution starts with me - "Be the change you 
want to see."


It's simple - whatever gender, race, social group you are, come and use 
OSM. If some data you care about is missing, get mapping!



Joel




On 05/09/17 12:14, Charlotte Wolter wrote:


My goodness, all this anxiety! Why are you feeling that
you have to justify what you map, just because someone is
studying it by gender?

Charlotte



At 10:10 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 08:25:33 +0200 Marc Gemis  
wrote: > One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female 
hygiene > products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map 
that, > without access to women's toilets ? > > The real question for 
me is are men more likely going to map shop=car > than 
shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the > 
stereotyping) > will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ? > 
will a roman catholic map a mosque ? > will a non-dog owner map 
leisure=dog_park ? > > in short: will we map everything we see or do 
we map only our > interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything 
or do we only see > (and map) things we are conditioned to ? > > This 
is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are

> pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.

I know I map what I see (or more precisely, what my camera
captures). If it doesn't have a sign out front, I don't map it.
To take an example from the midwives vs. strip clubs debate,
the phone book lists seven midwives and/or midwife groups
in the Spokane area. Of those, three are attached to hospitals
and one to a community-health clinic, and so wouldn't have
signs. Two are operating out of private homes and don't have
signs (and I wouldn't map them if they did, just like I don't map
lawn care or computer repair businesses operating out of
private homes).
The last one is in the 95% of the city I haven't yet photo-mapped.
The phone book lists zero strip clubs in the Spokane area.
Despite that, I've found and mapped one strip club: it was on a
major street and had a clear sign out front.
Yes, there's a bias in my mapping, but it's a bias towards
"things identifiable from the street." I'm more likely to map a car
store than a clothes store, because car stores are generally
not found inside shopping malls. Playgrounds beat pubs,
because every playground is visible from the street.  And this
non-dog-owner didn't map the dog park, because it was
already mapped by the time I got started.

-- Mark
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Charlotte Wolter]

My goodness, all this anxiety! Why are you feeling that
you have to justify what you map, just because someone is
studying it by gender?

Charlotte



At 10:10 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 08:25:33 +0200 Marc Gemis  
wrote: > One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female 
hygiene > products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to 
map that, > without access to women's toilets ? > > The real 
question for me is are men more likely going to map shop=car > than 
shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the > 
stereotyping) > will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ? > 
will a roman catholic map a mosque ? > will a non-dog owner map 
leisure=dog_park ? > > in short: will we map everything we  see or 
do we map only our > interests ? Furthermore, do we really see 
everything or do we only see > (and map) things we are conditioned 
to ? > > This is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are

> pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.

I know I map what I see (or more precisely, what my camera
captures). If it doesn't have a sign out front, I don't map it.
To take an example from the midwives vs. strip clubs debate,
the phone book lists seven midwives and/or midwife groups
in the Spokane area. Of those, three are attached to hospitals
and one to a community-health clinic, and so wouldn't have
signs. Two are operating out of private homes and don't have
signs (and I wouldn't map them if they did, just like I don't map
lawn care or computer repair businesses operating out of
private homes).
The last one is in the 95% of the city I haven't yet photo-mapped.
The phone book lists zero strip clubs in the Spokane area.
Despite that, I've found and mapped one strip club: it was on a
major street and had a clear sign out front.
Yes, there's a bias in my mapping, but it's a bias towards
"things identifiable from the street." I'm more likely to map a car
store than a clothes store, because car stores are generally
not found inside shopping malls. Playgrounds beat pubs,
because every playground is visible from the street.  And this
non-dog-owner didn't map the dog park, because it was
already mapped by the time I got started.

-- Mark
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Charlotte Wolter]

Nick,

This is a study, not a manifesto. All this researcher is doing
is looking for gender bias, IF it exists, in OSM mapping.
So, I have to ask, what would you do if she does find certain
areas of gender bias in OSM and reports them? Would you be
angry and quit mapping? Would you ignore the report? Or would
you make subtle changes in your mapping to avoid that bias?
The choice is yours.

Charlotte


At 02:53 AM 9/5/2017, you wrote:



We are, mostly, volunteers. Therefore I think we should map
whatever takes our fancy and should not feel obliged to spend
our time/money on mapping that we do not want to do willingly.
If the location-based service providers find that certain info is
missing that they would like to have, then maybe they could pay
someone to collect the data, or even better, do it themselves.
If you can convince mappers to alter their mapping habits, well
and good, but trying to shame or threaten them into doing so
will just destroy whatever community there is.
Your statement (highly paraphrased) of "If you don't map what I
want you to map, then nobody is going to want to use your data"
may not be the best way to win people over to your cause.

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90403
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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Jerry Clough - OSM]

Sorry, this was drawn to my attention.
I can vouch that Zoe Gardner is a researcher at Nottingham University 
Geospatial Institute. Her institutional webpage is here: Zoe Gardner - The 
University of Nottingham
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Zoe Gardner - The University of Nottingham
   |   |

  |

  |

 

Zoe took the time to come along to the Nottingham OSM July meeting, and I've 
bumped into her at a University facility on the Jubilee Campus site when I had 
a further discussion of her research (and probably caused her coffee to get a 
bit cool, in which case my apologies). I also believe, and I think it is stated 
in some of her emails, that she is collaborating with Dr Peter Mooney of 
Maynooth University in Ireland. He was a co-editor on a recent scholarly 
multi-author book on OSM, and has presented work at various SotM conferences.
I have no affiliation with Nottingham University nor with her research. I 
therefore cannot say why her institutional email address has not been used, 
although I would expect that for this type of activity a distinct email address 
is probably useful to avoid confusion with regular day-job communications.
I have not checked, but normally research of this kind, storing personal data, 
will need some approval via an ethics committee. Furthermore institutions in 
Britain and Europe need to adhere to current (and future) European data 
protection legislation.
Requiring researchers to seek approval for their research via OSMF, or local 
chapters (affiliated or otherwise), would, in my view, raise a rather high bar 
for academics, and one which may be perceived to be contra OSM's openness. On 
the other hand the it may be appropriate for OSMF to consider guidelines w.r.t. 
collection of personal data of mappers for academic research, particularly as 
the new European directive comes into force next year.
HTH,
Jerry CloughSK53



  From: Charlotte Wolter 
 To: Talk-US@openstreetmap.org 
 Sent: Monday, 4 September 2017, 19:25
 Subject: [Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM
   
Follks,

  It wouldbe nice if we could get some confirmation that this is a real 
researchprojects being done by an actual researcher at Nottingham. If it 
islegit, why is the return email address from Gmail rather than theuniversity?
  Is theresome mechanism that we can set up to confirm that the 
research is forreal, such as running it through the US board first? I don't 
mindcontributing to a survey. I just want to be sure it is for real.

Charlotte




From: Zoe Gardner
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org ...snip... talk...@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

 
 
Dear OSM talk subscriber
 
I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at theUniversity 
of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases ingeospatial 
crowd-sourced projects such as OSM and other VolunteeredGeographical 
Information (VGI) projects. My current research project isconcerned with the 
way in which participation biases in OSM maypotentially affect the usability of 
the data that is collected andsubsequently what is available to location-based 
service providers thatuse OSM as their primary geospatial database.
The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong malebias in 
OSM participation. This has led to assertions that variousgeospatial knowledge 
could be under represented or poorly recorded on themap. However, the actual 
consequences of this bias remain little exploredor reported. By collecting 
information about contributors to OSM, whichcan then be analyzed along with 
their editing patterns, the impacts ofthis bias might begin to be measured and 
therefore better understood. Ihave therefore published an online survey 
designed to collect informationdirectly from OSM editors and I would like to 
invite as many of you aspossible to participate. The survey is anonymous and 
takes a couple ofminutes to complete.
If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like toparticipate 
in the study, please click on the link below, which will takeyou to the Bristol 
Online Survey website where you will find moreinformation and an opportunity to 
participate in the survey. As a smallincentive, at the close of the survey in a 
few weeks' time, 60respondents will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon 
voucher.
To participate in the survey, click on the link below:
https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles
Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about theway 
participation biases impact on crowd-sourced maps will enable newstrategies to 
be developed to address any resulting voids in thegeospatial information 
provided by amateur mappers. In turn this couldstrengthen the role played by 
platforms such as OSM in urban planning andsustainability, and could raise the 
profile of the important 

Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Philip Barnes]

I am not sure pubs are a good thing to compare but I have certainly mapped 
playgrounds as I find them, no particular interest beyond trying to complete 
the map of my home town. Finding them does take time, they are not as easy to 
map as pubs (big buildings on the main roads).

We are not a huge community hence things like pubs can be surveyed just by 
driving through a place so there is going to be a bias, they are the low 
hanging fruit so to speak. 

Using playgrounds as an example, I believe I have mapped them all in my home 
town, 8 in town of 5000. But mapping such things as playgrounds does take a 
serious amount of time and shoe leather. 

Phil (trigpoint) 


On 5 September 2017 11:43:01 BST, Marc Gemis  wrote:
>While I agree that changing peoples mapping habits is possible by
>posting about certain mapping subjects, or developing apps, I do not
>see why it is wrong to question whether a typical mapper only maps
>what interests him/her or whether they also map other stuff.
>
>I map a lot of items in which I have no personal interest, but because
>I know other people are interested and because I want to work on the
>best map possible.
>Are there other mappers that map e.g. playgrounds (even if they do not
>have children) ? Or are playgrounds mainly mapped by people with young
>children?
>
>Is not it worth to investigate this type of mapping habits ?
>
>
>m
>
>p.s. Who said you have to start mapping what you do not want to map? I
>might have missed this with all the cross posting going on.
>
>On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Nick Hocking 
>wrote:
>> This is how it's done
>>
>>
>http://www.dw.com/en/online-map-shows-wheelchair-accessible-locations-worldwide/a-15381244
>>
>> I met this bloke at SOTM Japan some years ago.   He didn't put out a
>> questionaire about whether non-disabled persons tended to tag less
>> accessability tags than disabled persons, because he already knew the
>> answer. He just went out and mapped them, created a website to
>support his
>> interest and got thousands of people interested in his project. Truly
>an
>> inspirational mapper.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Marc Gemis]

While I agree that changing peoples mapping habits is possible by
posting about certain mapping subjects, or developing apps, I do not
see why it is wrong to question whether a typical mapper only maps
what interests him/her or whether they also map other stuff.

I map a lot of items in which I have no personal interest, but because
I know other people are interested and because I want to work on the
best map possible.
Are there other mappers that map e.g. playgrounds (even if they do not
have children) ? Or are playgrounds mainly mapped by people with young
children?

Is not it worth to investigate this type of mapping habits ?


m

p.s. Who said you have to start mapping what you do not want to map? I
might have missed this with all the cross posting going on.

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Nick Hocking  wrote:
> This is how it's done
>
> http://www.dw.com/en/online-map-shows-wheelchair-accessible-locations-worldwide/a-15381244
>
> I met this bloke at SOTM Japan some years ago.   He didn't put out a
> questionaire about whether non-disabled persons tended to tag less
> accessability tags than disabled persons, because he already knew the
> answer. He just went out and mapped them, created a website to support his
> interest and got thousands of people interested in his project. Truly an
> inspirational mapper.
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Nick Hocking]

This is how it's done

http://www.dw.com/en/online-map-shows-wheelchair-accessible-locations-worldwide/a-15381244

I met this bloke at SOTM Japan some years ago.   He didn't put out a
questionaire about whether non-disabled persons tended to tag less
accessability tags than disabled persons, because he already knew the
answer. He just went out and mapped them, created a website to support his
interest and got thousands of people interested in his project. Truly an
inspirational mapper.
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Rihards]

On 2017.09.05. 12:53, Nick Hocking wrote:
> We are ,mostly, volunteers.  Therefore I think we should map whatever
> takes our fancy and should not feel obliged to spend our time/money on
> mapping that we do not want to do willingly.
> 
> If the location based service providers find that certain info is
> missing that they would like to have then maybe they could pay someone
> to collect the data, or even better, do it themselves.
> 
> If you can convince mappers to alter their mapping habits, well and
> good, but trying to shame or threaten them into doing so will just
> destroy whatever community there is.
> 
> Your statement (highly paraphrased) of "If you don't map what I want you
> to map, then nobody is going to want to use your data" may not be the
> best way to win people over to your cause.
wtf, man. the analysis that Frederik showed to be deeply flawed before
is one thing, but this reaction is just wtf.
-- 
 Rihards

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Nick Hocking]

We are ,mostly, volunteers.  Therefore I think we should map whatever takes
our fancy and should not feel obliged to spend our time/money on mapping
that we do not want to do willingly.

If the location based service providers find that certain info is missing
that they would like to have then maybe they could pay someone to collect
the data, or even better, do it themselves.

If you can convince mappers to alter their mapping habits, well and good,
but trying to shame or threaten them into doing so will just destroy
whatever community there is.

Your statement (highly paraphrased) of "If you don't map what I want you to
map, then nobody is going to want to use your data" may not be the best way
to win people over to your cause.
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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Zoe Gardner]

Dear All

Further to my email yesterday regard, I would like to reassure subscribers
here that the research is bona fide. I included a link to my University
webpage in the original post which I thought would give the survey the
required credence.

I agree with Charlotte that it would have been more credible to send the
post from my University email and this was my error. Apologies for any lack
of uncertainty in this respect. Please do complete the survey if you are
inclined!

Best wishes
Zoe

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:36 PM,  wrote:

> If it helps, I can confirm that I have met the researcher concerned at an
> OSM meetup in Nottingham. We talked about the project a bit, and what's
> been said about the research here doesn't differ from what was s‎aid then.
>
> Happy to answer questions from the US board if anyone thinks it will add
> to the "web of trust" here :)
>
>
> *From: *Charlotte Wolter
> *Sent: *Monday, 4 September 2017 19:25
> *To: *Talk-US@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *[Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>
> Follks,
>
> It would be nice if we could get some confirmation that this is a
> real research projects being done by an actual researcher at Nottingham. If
> it is legit, why is the return email address from Gmail rather than the
> university?
> Is there some mechanism that we can set up to confirm that the
> research is for real, such as running it through the US board first? I
> don't mind contributing to a survey. I just want to be sure it is for real.
>
> Charlotte
>
>
>
> From: Zoe Gardner 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org ...snip... talk...@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>
>
>
> Dear OSM talk subscriber
>
> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in
> geospatial crowd-sourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially
> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is
> available to location-based service providers that use OSM as their primary
> geospatial database.
> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
> map. However, the actual consequences of this bias remain little explored
> or reported. By collecting information about contributors to OSM, which can
> then be analyzed along with their editing patterns, the impacts of this
> bias might begin to be measured and therefore better understood. I have
> therefore published an online survey designed to collect information
> directly from OSM editors and I would like to invite as many of you as
> possible to participate. The survey is anonymous and takes a couple of
> minutes to complete.
> If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like to
> participate in the study, please click on the link below, which will take
> you to the Bristol Online Survey website where you will find more
> information and an opportunity to participate in the survey. As a small
> incentive, at the close of the survey in a few weeks' time, 60 respondents
> will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon voucher.
> To participate in the survey, click on the link below:
> https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles
> Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about the
> way participation biases impact on crowd-sourced maps will enable new
> strategies to be developed to address any resulting voids in the geospatial
> information provided by amateur mappers. In turn this could strengthen the
> role played by platforms such as OSM in urban planning and sustainability,
> and could raise the profile of the important mapping work that you all do.
> In the meantime, if you would like to know more about me, my research
> activities or the project, please visit my University webpage (link below)
> and do not hesitate to get in touch directly or via the OSM messaging
> service.
> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner
> Thank you
>
> Zoe
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>
>
> Charlotte Wolter
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040 <(310)%20597-4040>
> techl...@techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Dave Swarthout]

Zoe,

Reading these responses helps me understand why you are doing what you're
doing. It's almost laughable that some male mappers responded with, well,
sexist remarks concerning your work. People are not usually aware of the
biases they introduce and that's why researchers must use statistical
analyses and double blind tests to evaluate new drugs, consumer trends and
preferences, etc. I'm reasonably sure OSM is no different. I know that a
portion of my mapping effort tends to concentrate on areas and things that
are of interest to me and while I don't think my being a man has much to do
with it, I would be curious to see if your research shows something
different. Towards that end, I'd be happy to cooperate with your effort to
clarify the situation.

Best wishes,

Dave (aka AlaskaDave)

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female hygiene
> products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map that,
> without access to women's toilets ?
>
> The real question for me is are men more likely going to map shop=car
> than shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the
> stereotyping)
> will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ?
> will a roman catholic map a mosque ?
> will a non-dog owner map leisure=dog_park ?
>
> in short: will we map everything we  see or do we map only our
> interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything or do we only see
> (and map) things we are conditioned to ?
>
> This is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are
> pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.
>
>
> regards
>
> m.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Zoe Gardner 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear OSM talk subscriber
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
> >> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases
> in
> >> geospatial crowdsourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
> >> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
> >> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may
> potentially
> >> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently
> what is
> >> available to location based service providers which use OSM as their
> primary
> >> geospatial database.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
> >> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
> >> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on
> the
> >> map.
> >
> >
> > Zoe,
> >
> > I believe that you need to go back to the drawing board.  OSM is not
> about
> > gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. OSM is about people with
> > leisure time that are willing to spend to add nodes to a map.  If I like
> to
> > add buidlings to the map, there is nothing about those nodes and one way
> > that compose the building that would discriminate or leave out
> information
> > based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
> >
> > This sounds like one of those surveys designed to damage OSM.
> > "data that is collected and subsequently what is available to location
> based
> > service providers"
> > That statement sound like you are performing research for a vendor that
> > cannot compete with OSM.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>



-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Zoe Gardner]

Dear All

Further to my email yesterday regard, I would like to reassure subscribers
here that the research is bona fide. I included a link to my University
webpage in the original post which I thought would give the survey the
required credence.

I agree with Charlotte that it would have been more credible to send the
post from my University email and this was my error. Apologies for any lack
of uncertainty in this respect. Please do complete the survey if you are
inclined!

Best wishes
Zoe

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:36 PM,  wrote:

> If it helps, I can confirm that I have met the researcher concerned at an
> OSM meetup in Nottingham. We talked about the project a bit, and what's
> been said about the research here doesn't differ from what was s‎aid then.
>
> Happy to answer questions from the US board if anyone thinks it will add
> to the "web of trust" here :)
>
>
> *From: *Charlotte Wolter
> *Sent: *Monday, 4 September 2017 19:25
> *To: *Talk-US@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *[Talk-us] Fwd: Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>
> Follks,
>
> It would be nice if we could get some confirmation that this is a
> real research projects being done by an actual researcher at Nottingham. If
> it is legit, why is the return email address from Gmail rather than the
> university?
> Is there some mechanism that we can set up to confirm that the
> research is for real, such as running it through the US board first? I
> don't mind contributing to a survey. I just want to be sure it is for real.
>
> Charlotte
>
>
>
> From: Zoe Gardner 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org ...snip... talk...@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM
>
>
>
> Dear OSM talk subscriber
>
> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in
> geospatial crowd-sourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially
> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is
> available to location-based service providers that use OSM as their primary
> geospatial database.
> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
> map. However, the actual consequences of this bias remain little explored
> or reported. By collecting information about contributors to OSM, which can
> then be analyzed along with their editing patterns, the impacts of this
> bias might begin to be measured and therefore better understood. I have
> therefore published an online survey designed to collect information
> directly from OSM editors and I would like to invite as many of you as
> possible to participate. The survey is anonymous and takes a couple of
> minutes to complete.
> If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like to
> participate in the study, please click on the link below, which will take
> you to the Bristol Online Survey website where you will find more
> information and an opportunity to participate in the survey. As a small
> incentive, at the close of the survey in a few weeks' time, 60 respondents
> will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon voucher.
> To participate in the survey, click on the link below:
> https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles
> Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about the
> way participation biases impact on crowd-sourced maps will enable new
> strategies to be developed to address any resulting voids in the geospatial
> information provided by amateur mappers. In turn this could strengthen the
> role played by platforms such as OSM in urban planning and sustainability,
> and could raise the profile of the important mapping work that you all do.
> In the meantime, if you would like to know more about me, my research
> activities or the project, please visit my University webpage (link below)
> and do not hesitate to get in touch directly or via the OSM messaging
> service.
> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner
> Thank you
>
> Zoe
> ___
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> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
> Charlotte Wolter
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040 <(310)%20597-4040>
> techl...@techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed import of building footprints for Hartford, CT

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 05.09.2017 04:41, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Please join us on Slack [1] to help discuss
> the import.

If anything meaningful is ever discussed there, please don't forget that
it is a proprietary platform not used by everyone, and add summaries or
transcripts to the public import documentation.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Marc Gemis]

One of the discussion points on her diary entry was female hygiene
products found in women's toilets. How is a man going to map that,
without access to women's toilets ?

The real question for me is are men more likely going to map shop=car
than shop=clothes;clothes=underwear/fashion/ ... (sorry for the
stereotyping)
will men map leisure=playground or amenity=pub ?
will a roman catholic map a mosque ?
will a non-dog owner map leisure=dog_park ?

in short: will we map everything we  see or do we map only our
interests ? Furthermore, do we really see everything or do we only see
(and map) things we are conditioned to ?

This is not about buildings, addresses, roads and paths. They are
pretty gender neutral I think. It's about POIs.


regards

m.



On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Zoe Gardner  wrote:
>>
>> Dear OSM talk subscriber
>>
>>
>>
>> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
>> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in
>> geospatial crowdsourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
>> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
>> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially
>> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is
>> available to location based service providers which use OSM as their primary
>> geospatial database.
>>
>>
>>
>> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
>> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
>> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
>> map.
>
>
> Zoe,
>
> I believe that you need to go back to the drawing board.  OSM is not about
> gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. OSM is about people with
> leisure time that are willing to spend to add nodes to a map.  If I like to
> add buidlings to the map, there is nothing about those nodes and one way
> that compose the building that would discriminate or leave out information
> based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
>
> This sounds like one of those surveys designed to damage OSM.
> "data that is collected and subsequently what is available to location based
> service providers"
> That statement sound like you are performing research for a vendor that
> cannot compete with OSM.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>

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