Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different So Tesla is calling their supercharger sockets suckets? How appropriate. -jack On April 13, 2015 4:24:03 PM EDT, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote: You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer changes to OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now updated) OSM changefile. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the name tag. I have manually checked this differences: - The name tags I produce are better than the original - If they're not better, I manually adjust them - In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes capacity is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's - A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM - The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment for convenience. - Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote: You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer changes to OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now updated) OSM changefile. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the name tag. I have manually checked this differences: - The name tags I produce are better than the original - If they're not better, I manually adjust them - In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes capacity is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's - A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM - The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment for convenience. - Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Do you think anybody will do the effort to correct some of the data, when it will be overwritten again with each update ? That's why people ask not to overwrite the data automatically. regards m p.s. it's annoying that this is cross-posted on 2 mailing lists, I'm only subscribed to one of them. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Hi, On 04/13/2015 10:23 AM, Greg Morgan wrote: Oh my goodness. Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will drive off mappers without examining any real data. No. It appears that you're going off on a tangent without examining the messages that were written ;) Until now I can't see anyone who has said don't import the superchargers, it will drive off mappers. What I see is don't overwrite existing, manually collected information in an automated process, and that is, as Greg correctly says, a cultural bright line that will not be crossed with impunity. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Oh my goodness. Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will drive off mappers without examining any real data. If we look at the Buckeye Charger we see that fredo_p, a A Hit-and-Run Mapper, added the original node. He's still a mapper. Theodin a German mapper added something. AndiG88 another German mapper added something. Finally njaard touched the same node. The German mappers did nothing different that what njaard did. They looked up that there were 8 charging ports on the Tesla site. I surveyed the site and see no problem with what has gone on with this node. The question I have is should there be eight nodes for each station since one is required for each parking spot along with a wall/building for the transformer where the address is located? The name issue may not be a factor since you can Google on either the address or name. Note that all the mappers involved including me the surveyor are still mapping. I am surprised that we did not loose fredo_p--last modifier of 95 nodes, 16 ways and 0 relationships--with the mapper's first experience of a node that does not render. I hope that we don't loose njaard--last modifier of 2,900 nodes, 663 ways, and 30 relationships--over a node still does not render with a cute little icon. In may case, I lost interest in mapping all EV chargers because there's no reward for mapping them. There was the reward of finding three of the four types of chargers used in the US. There was the reward of understanding the problems with making EV work. Sure the nodes are in the database but I do not experience the reward of seeing the node on the map like a regular gas station node. In my view it is not the importers that are killing mappers it is the cartographers that only show a portion of what can be mapped. https://www.google.com/search?q=mapbox+sudio+data+projectie=utf-8oe=utf-8#q=buckeye+arizona+tesla+charger http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/location?place=buckeyesupercharger http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cs_us_tesla_buckeye_charger.png http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2776570644/history#map=19/33.44263/-112.55724 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fredo_p http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?fredo_p http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Theodin http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Theodin http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?AndiG88 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/njaard http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?njaard I am guessing that this will bounce because I am not on the import list. HTH, Greg On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org writes: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote: Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite OSM's. Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value? Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than supercharge.info, so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it, I manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the differences. You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org writes: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote: Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite OSM's. Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value? Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than supercharge.info, so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it, I manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the differences. You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? pgpaZFTtXNvGv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote: Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite OSM's. Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value? Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than supercharge.info, so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it, I manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the differences. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
* Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org [150412 22:21]: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote: Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite OSM's. Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value? Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than supercharge.info, so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it, I manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the differences. Sounds like the perfect way to drive away mappers, in other words: a pretty bad idea. Investigating existing differences and reconciling the two data sets looks like a much better (and acceptable) way to me. Wolfgang ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
