Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Bradley White]

> Long term, it would be nice to separate these notions and have some
> highway:importance key for that, and leave the road type notion that
> separates primary/trunk/motorway alone (or move it to some other tag,
> and get rid of highway=trunk and highway=motorway).

Ideally, this is what 'highway' is already supposed to represent
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Highway_key_voting_importance).
The debate fundamentally is over whether roads built to "expressway"
standards are de facto important enough to warrant being their own
class of importance, in the same way that freeways are in the US
(given that the US has a national interstate system). I think there
are convincing cases for both tagging schemes, but that ultimately we
need to make a decision as a community, since using both is ambiguous
and confusing.

> I guess you are suggesting to add highway=expressway to have expressway
> mean "sort of motorway but not quite" and change trunk to be "very
> important".  I am afraid that with so much established tagging the only
> reasonable approach to orthogonalization is to adopt two new tags for
> the things in question and deprecate the old way, allowing for a long
> and messy transition.

If 'trunk' became defined as "most important roads", I would suggest
adding a tag like 'expressway=yes/traditional/super_two/...', default
'no', to indicate the built design of the road. There has already been
such a proposal for a while, though currently abandoned:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Expressway_indication

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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 3:05 PM Greg Troxel  wrote:

> Tod Fitch  writes:
>
> > My reading of the wiki indicates that for the United States a trunk is
> “a high speed Arterial Divided highway that is partially grade separated.”
> [1]
> >
> > What is the problem with having the main road between
> regions/cities/towns being “primary”? Do you like the rendering of trunk
> better?
> >
> > For myself if I planned a driving trip and was expecting a trunk road
> I’d sure be surprised to find areas that are undivided and apparently, from
> other responses in this thread, unpaved in sections.
>
> Agreed.  To me trunk means:
>
>   paved
>   divided
>   very few at grade intersections or driveways (one every few miles is ok)
>

I'm also willing to include single-carriageway (ie, undivided) freeways,
reserving motorway for something identical to substantially typical
Interstate standard fare.
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Greg Troxel]

Bradley White  writes:

> The lack of consistent highway tagging in the US is one of the biggest
> sources of frustration with this project as a whole to me. IMO, the US
> community needs to make a decision to *either*:
>
> 1. Use 'trunk' to mean "major cross-country highway" and orthogonalize
> expressway constructions with its own 'expressway=*' tag, bump
> 'primary' to "minor cross-country highway/major regional highway",
> 'secondary' to "minor regional highway/major local road", etc...
>
> Or:
>
> 2. Use 'trunk' to mean strictly "partially grade-separated limited
> access divided highway" (with explicit instruction to not tag singular
> or isolated interchanges as 'motorway')
>
> The mixture of the two schemes that leans towards one or the other
> depending on what part of the country you're in is inconsistent and
> confusing to me, and judging by how many times we've gone in circles
> about this on us-talk, others as well.

Agreed.  I think option 2 is the right path.  primary used to mean
important long-distance route, before people started calling local roads
primary.

Long term, it would be nice to separate these notions and have some
highway:importance key for that, and leave the road type notion that
separates primary/trunk/motorway alone (or move it to some other tag,
and get rid of highway=trunk and highway=motorway).

As for the freeway/expressway notion, note that this is regional
langauge and we don't walk that way in Boston (we're too busy running
red lights and using our horns!!).  But seriously, I don't know those
distinctions and people don't really use those words.

I guess you are suggesting to add highway=expressway to have expressway
mean "sort of motorway but not quite" and change trunk to be "very
important".  I am afraid that with so much established tagging the only
reasonable approach to orthogonalization is to adopt two new tags for
the things in question and deprecate the old way, allowing for a long
and messy transition.

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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Greg Troxel]

Tod Fitch  writes:

> My reading of the wiki indicates that for the United States a trunk is “a 
> high speed Arterial Divided highway that is partially grade separated.” [1]
>
> What is the problem with having the main road between regions/cities/towns 
> being “primary”? Do you like the rendering of trunk better?
>
> For myself if I planned a driving trip and was expecting a trunk road I’d 
> sure be surprised to find areas that are undivided and apparently, from other 
> responses in this thread, unpaved in sections.

Agreed.  To me trunk means:

  paved
  divided
  very few at grade intersections or driveways (one every few miles is ok)

basically "sort of like a motorway, but not quite".

primary already means "this is a very main road".

There are plenty of primary roads with 65 MPH speed limits out there.
If they aren't divided or have more-than-occasional at-grade
intersections or driveways, that's the right classification.

I don't think a road that isn't physically trunk should get tagged as
such just because it is the most important road (or the only road).

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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[brad]

I'm not expressing strong opposition because consistency with the 
adjacent highways is important, and also because I don't live up there, 
but the wiki makes sense, trunk is a divided highway. Both this: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Road_classification#Trunk


and the US section of this:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk

say that.

On 12/16/19 6:42 PM, Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 16, 2019 8:21 PM, Anthony Costanzo  
wrote:


Given how these and other major
single-carriageway roads in northern and western Canada are tagged as
Trunk, tagging AK 2 as such would seem to be the option that defers to
regional precedent.

Given the discussion we've had so far, unless there is strong opposition to 
doing so, I'm going to updating the tagging of AK-2 to 'trunk' from Canada to 
Eielson AFB for consistency.  This is what it's tagged in the Yukon and, as 
SteveA points out, the differences between Trunk and Primary are little.

This has been a very good discussion, though.

R,
Eric Sparks
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Bradley White]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 4:53 PM  wrote:

> On the West Coast, several important State highways are tagged as trunks
> even though they are not full expressways, because they are the main road
> for a large region. For example, see US 199, US 101, CA 99 and CA 299 on
> this map of far Northern California:

FWIW - I am the one who bumped each of these roads listed up to trunk
a year or two ago, and I have recently bumped them back down to
primary (what they were for years before IIRC) to remain consistent
with guidelines posted here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging and
here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Road_classification

The lack of consistent highway tagging in the US is one of the biggest
sources of frustration with this project as a whole to me. IMO, the US
community needs to make a decision to *either*:

1. Use 'trunk' to mean "major cross-country highway" and orthogonalize
expressway constructions with its own 'expressway=*' tag, bump
'primary' to "minor cross-country highway/major regional highway",
'secondary' to "minor regional highway/major local road", etc...

Or:

2. Use 'trunk' to mean strictly "partially grade-separated limited
access divided highway" (with explicit instruction to not tag singular
or isolated interchanges as 'motorway')

The mixture of the two schemes that leans towards one or the other
depending on what part of the country you're in is inconsistent and
confusing to me, and judging by how many times we've gone in circles
about this on us-talk, others as well.

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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 7:17 PM Eric H. Christensen  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 7:35 PM, Tod Fitch 
> wrote:
>
> > My reading of the wiki indicates that for the United States a trunk is
> “a high speed Arterial Divided highway that is partially grade separated.”
> [1]
> >
> > What is the problem with having the main road between
> regions/cities/towns being “primary”? Do you like the rendering of trunk
> better?
> >
> > For myself if I planned a driving trip and was expecting a trunk road
> I’d sure be surprised to find areas that are undivided and apparently, from
> other responses in this thread, unpaved in sections.
> >
> > [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Road_classification#Trunk
>
> I haven't seen that wiki page before.  Looking at the trunk page[0], the
> highway need not be divided and the U.S.-specific portion says "Surface
> expressway: A relatively high-speed divided road (at least 40 MPH with a
> barrier or median separating each direction of traffic), with a limited
> amount of intersections and driveways; or a major intercity highway. This
> includes many U.S. Highways (that do not parallel an Interstate) and some
> state highways.".  To me that meets the requirement for AK-2.
>

For a single carriageway road?  Seems like it's going the long way around
describing the southern loop of the Duncan Bypass
 or the entire
length of the Chicasaw Turnpike
.
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 10:29 PM Michael Patrick 
wrote:

>   > secondary in most cases for the state
>> highways and primary for the US ones.
>>
>
>  At least for the U.S., the Interstate vs. State Route distinction has
> more to do with funding than  carrying capacity and physical attributes. We
> have several State Routes that are definitely expressways:
> https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-States/Washington/Seattle/SR-at-MP-:-Des-Moines-Memorial-Dr/webcams/1459260132?47.545,-122.306,13
>

That looks more like a freeway (an expressway is a freeway with
intersections or a mix of ramps and intersections).


> Although they are few, there are still portions of the Interstate that are
> not expressways:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gaps_in_Interstate_Highways#Undivided_and_narrow_freeways
>

Yeah, I 5 at either end past the last exit, for example.
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Michael Patrick]

>
>   > secondary in most cases for the state
> highways and primary for the US ones.
>

 At least for the U.S., the Interstate vs. State Route distinction has more
to do with funding than  carrying capacity and physical attributes. We have
several State Routes that are definitely expressways:
https://www.windy.com/-Webcams/United-States/Washington/Seattle/SR-at-MP-:-Des-Moines-Memorial-Dr/webcams/1459260132?47.545,-122.306,13

Although they are few, there are still portions of the Interstate that are
not expressways:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gaps_in_Interstate_Highways#Undivided_and_narrow_freeways

Michael Patrick
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 16, 2019 8:21 PM, Anthony Costanzo  
wrote:

> Given how these and other major
> single-carriageway roads in northern and western Canada are tagged as
> Trunk, tagging AK 2 as such would seem to be the option that defers to
> regional precedent.

Given the discussion we've had so far, unless there is strong opposition to 
doing so, I'm going to updating the tagging of AK-2 to 'trunk' from Canada to 
Eielson AFB for consistency.  This is what it's tagged in the Yukon and, as 
SteveA points out, the differences between Trunk and Primary are little.

This has been a very good discussion, though.

R,
Eric Sparks
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Anthony Costanzo]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 7:45 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:35 PM Anthony Costanzo  wrote:
>>
>> All of AK 2 between Fairbanks and the Canadian border is paved. I can
>> vouch for this personally.
>
> OK, so that's kinda putting more weight on the "primary" idea.  Is most of it 
> a single carriageway freeway or a dual carriageway expressway?  It's
> been a long time since I've been there but i can't imagine it being more than 
> your typical middle-of-nowhere two-lane uncontrolled single
> carriageway today.  If that's the case, I feel like primary is the highest it 
> should be, and we should be considering more whether or not such a road
> rises to primary instead of secondary (the lowest it should be, given it's 
> part of the primary state highway network in Alaska).

Most of it is uncontrolled two-lane single carriageway.

I don't have a strong opinion on whether the road is tagged as trunk
or primary based on its own merits, however I do think the tags for
the single-carriageway parts of AK 2 and YT 1 (and BC 97 for that
matter) should match, whichever it is. These roads are functionally
equivalent and physically similar. Given how these and other major
single-carriageway roads in northern and western Canada are tagged as
Trunk, tagging AK 2 as such would seem to be the option that defers to
regional precedent.

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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[stevea]

In the USA, I think the answer is "both are extant."  In short, it's the "trunk 
means this, absolutely and primary means that, absolutely" on the one hand and 
"around here, even paved with gravel, that road rises to the level of trunk, 
absolutely" on the other hand.  And you have two hands.  The answer is yes.

Sometimes, and in this instance ("primary and trunk semantics in the USA") the 
answer is "yes, both."

I believe it is correct to recognize that both are true simultaneously and the 
(several, many) reasons why both exist simultaneously.  Saying "even if gravel 
around here, still trunk" and tell the people who are shocked (absolutely 
shocked) at this to close their mouths and expand their minds.  Expand the 
definition of trunk to be accommodating, that is (it is).

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 16, 2019 7:35 PM, Tod Fitch  wrote:

> My reading of the wiki indicates that for the United States a trunk is “a 
> high speed Arterial Divided highway that is partially grade separated.” [1]
>
> What is the problem with having the main road between regions/cities/towns 
> being “primary”? Do you like the rendering of trunk better?
>
> For myself if I planned a driving trip and was expecting a trunk road I’d 
> sure be surprised to find areas that are undivided and apparently, from other 
> responses in this thread, unpaved in sections.
>
> [1] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Road_classification#Trunk

I haven't seen that wiki page before.  Looking at the trunk page[0], the 
highway need not be divided and the U.S.-specific portion says "Surface 
expressway: A relatively high-speed divided road (at least 40 MPH with a 
barrier or median separating each direction of traffic), with a limited amount 
of intersections and driveways; or a major intercity highway. This includes 
many U.S. Highways (that do not parallel an Interstate) and some state 
highways.".  To me that meets the requirement for AK-2.

[0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk

--Eric "Sparks"
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Evin Fairchild]

Those roads in northern CA were tagged as trunk long after NE2 was banned
from editing OSM. Also US 101 in Washington was tagged as trunk two years
ago, and it doesn't bother me enough for me to change it back to primary.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 4:58 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:47 PM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alaska is not attached to the rest of the USA, so consistency with the
>> Yukon Territory and British Columbia is equally important.
>>
>> In the western USA, highway=trunk is not limited to expressways like it
>> is in Germany and France
>>
>> On the West Coast, several important State highways are tagged as trunks
>> even though they are not full expressways, because they are the main road
>> for a large region. For example, see US 199, US 101, CA 99 and CA 299 on
>> this map of far Northern California:
>>
>
> Are we sure that's not leftover tagging from before NE2 torqued things on
> a continental level?  101 in parts of California I could potentially see,
> and maybe parts of 99 where the freeway is ending in central california but
> the other examples probably should be secondary in most cases for the state
> highways and primary for the US ones.
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:47 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> Alaska is not attached to the rest of the USA, so consistency with the
> Yukon Territory and British Columbia is equally important.
>
> In the western USA, highway=trunk is not limited to expressways like it is
> in Germany and France
>
> On the West Coast, several important State highways are tagged as trunks
> even though they are not full expressways, because they are the main road
> for a large region. For example, see US 199, US 101, CA 99 and CA 299 on
> this map of far Northern California:
>

Are we sure that's not leftover tagging from before NE2 torqued things on a
continental level?  101 in parts of California I could potentially see, and
maybe parts of 99 where the freeway is ending in central california but the
other examples probably should be secondary in most cases for the state
highways and primary for the US ones.
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Evin Fairchild]

Well I think Alaska is kind of an exception to the rest of the US given
that there are no intercity freeways due to lack of demand. It's more
equivalent to western Canada in that regard.

Personally I think US highways should be tagged as trunk roads in most
cases but that's an entirely different discussion so if we want to discuss
that, we should probably start a new email thread.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 4:31 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:26 PM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Trunks are rarely expressways in remote parts of the world. In Britain,
>> where this tag started, many highway=trunk roads are not expressways or
>> motorroads.
>>
>
> Are we not trying to remain internally consistent with the rest of the US?
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Tod Fitch]

My reading of the wiki indicates that for the United States a trunk is “a high 
speed Arterial Divided highway that is partially grade separated.” [1]

What is the problem with having the main road between regions/cities/towns 
being “primary”? Do you like the rendering of trunk better?

For myself if I planned a driving trip and was expecting a trunk road I’d sure 
be surprised to find areas that are undivided and apparently, from other 
responses in this thread, unpaved in sections.

—Tod

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Road_classification#Trunk

> On Dec 16, 2019, at 4:26 PM, Joseph Eisenberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Trunks are rarely expressways in remote parts of the world. In Britain, where 
> this tag started, many highway=trunk roads are not expressways or motorroads.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:22 AM Paul Johnson  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:18 PM Joseph Eisenberg  > wrote:
> I would use highway=trunk the whole way for consistency. In Canada the 
> connecting highway is also highway=trunk. This makes sense because AK 2 is 
> linking Fairbanks, the largest city in this part of Alaska, with All the 
> cities in Canada and the lower 48 States.
> 
> That's kind of my thinking as to why it should be primary instead of 
> secondary (as typical for the US for state highways).  Almost all of it's not 
> even paved, it'd be a hard stretch to call it an expressway (trunk).
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Alaska is not attached to the rest of the USA, so consistency with the
Yukon Territory and British Columbia is equally important.

In the western USA, highway=trunk is not limited to expressways like it is
in Germany and France

On the West Coast, several important State highways are tagged as trunks
even though they are not full expressways, because they are the main road
for a large region. For example, see US 199, US 101, CA 99 and CA 299 on
this map of far Northern California:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/40.681/-123.184

Expressways should be tagged with additional details like lanes=, surface,
maxspeed=, expressway=yes, and motorroad=yes

The latter two tags could be useful for rendering if they were applied
consistently.

- Joseph Eisenberg

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:29 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:26 PM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Trunks are rarely expressways in remote parts of the world. In Britain,
>> where this tag started, many highway=trunk roads are not expressways or
>> motorroads.
>>
>
> Are we not trying to remain internally consistent with the rest of the US?
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

Please strongly consider splitting digests into constituent messages with
procmail or your MUA, or switch to the non-digest version to preserve
threading.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:35 PM Anthony Costanzo 
wrote:

>
> All of AK 2 between Fairbanks and the Canadian border is paved. I can
> vouch for this personally.
>

OK, so that's kinda putting more weight on the "primary" idea.  Is most of
it a single carriageway freeway or a dual carriageway expressway?  It's
been a long time since I've been there but i can't imagine it being more
than your typical middle-of-nowhere two-lane uncontrolled single
carriageway today.  If that's the case, I feel like primary is the highest
it should be, and we should be considering more whether or not such a road
rises to primary instead of secondary (the lowest it should be, given it's
part of the primary state highway network in Alaska).
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:26 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> Trunks are rarely expressways in remote parts of the world. In Britain,
> where this tag started, many highway=trunk roads are not expressways or
> motorroads.
>

Are we not trying to remain internally consistent with the rest of the US?
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Trunks are rarely expressways in remote parts of the world. In Britain,
where this tag started, many highway=trunk roads are not expressways or
motorroads.

Joseph

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:22 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:18 PM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would use highway=trunk the whole way for consistency. In Canada the
>> connecting highway is also highway=trunk. This makes sense because AK 2 is
>> linking Fairbanks, the largest city in this part of Alaska, with All the
>> cities in Canada and the lower 48 States.
>>
>
> That's kind of my thinking as to why it should be primary instead of
> secondary (as typical for the US for state highways).  Almost all of it's
> not even paved, it'd be a hard stretch to call it an expressway (trunk).
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Evin Fairchild]

Totally agree. Since Alaska doesn't have any freeways outside of Anchorage,
these roads are the most important roads in the state and should be tagged
as trunk.

-Evin (compdude)

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 4:20 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> I would use highway=trunk the whole way for consistency. In Canada the
> connecting highway is also highway=trunk. This makes sense because AK 2 is
> linking Fairbanks, the largest city in this part of Alaska, with All the
> cities in Canada and the lower 48 States.
>
> -Joseph
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:37 AM Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> I've noticed that there is some mixed tagging of the Alaska Highway AK-2
>> from the Canadian border through Delta Junction to where it becomes a
>> divided highway just south and east of Fairbanks at Eielson Air Force
>> Base.  Some of the non-divided portions are tagged as trunk while the other
>> (majority) is tagged as primary.  The definitions of these two tags are
>> similar enough in the U.S. to almost be interchangeable.  Being that this
>> highway links many villages with Canada and the City of Fairbanks and the
>> speed limit is 65 MPH, I would lean towards this highway being tagged as
>> trunk.  By the same definition, I'd probably argue the same for the 
>> Richardson
>> Highway AK-4
>> 
>> .
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> R,
>> Eric "Sparks"
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:18 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> I would use highway=trunk the whole way for consistency. In Canada the
> connecting highway is also highway=trunk. This makes sense because AK 2 is
> linking Fairbanks, the largest city in this part of Alaska, with All the
> cities in Canada and the lower 48 States.
>

That's kind of my thinking as to why it should be primary instead of
secondary (as typical for the US for state highways).  Almost all of it's
not even paved, it'd be a hard stretch to call it an expressway (trunk).
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I would use highway=trunk the whole way for consistency. In Canada the
connecting highway is also highway=trunk. This makes sense because AK 2 is
linking Fairbanks, the largest city in this part of Alaska, with All the
cities in Canada and the lower 48 States.

-Joseph

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:37 AM Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> I've noticed that there is some mixed tagging of the Alaska Highway AK-2
> from the Canadian border through Delta Junction to where it becomes a
> divided highway just south and east of Fairbanks at Eielson Air Force
> Base.  Some of the non-divided portions are tagged as trunk while the other
> (majority) is tagged as primary.  The definitions of these two tags are
> similar enough in the U.S. to almost be interchangeable.  Being that this
> highway links many villages with Canada and the City of Fairbanks and the
> speed limit is 65 MPH, I would lean towards this highway being tagged as
> trunk.  By the same definition, I'd probably argue the same for the Richardson
> Highway AK-4
> 
> .
>
> Thoughts?
>
> R,
> Eric "Sparks"
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 5:35 PM Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> I've noticed that there is some mixed tagging of the Alaska Highway AK-2
> from the Canadian border through Delta Junction to where it becomes a
> divided highway just south and east of Fairbanks at Eielson Air Force
> Base.  Some of the non-divided portions are tagged as trunk while the other
> (majority) is tagged as primary.  The definitions of these two tags are
> similar enough in the U.S. to almost be interchangeable.  Being that this
> highway links many villages with Canada and the City of Fairbanks and the
> speed limit is 65 MPH, I would lean towards this highway being tagged as
> trunk.  By the same definition, I'd probably argue the same for the
> Richardson Highway AK-4.
>

I'd personally go for primary in the segments that don't rise to being a
single carriageway freeway or a dual carriageway with infrequent
intersections or a mix of intersections and ramps.
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[Talk-us] Alaska Highway AK-2 tagging

[Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

I've noticed that there is some mixed tagging of the Alaska Highway AK-2 from 
the Canadian border through Delta Junction to where it becomes a divided 
highway just south and east of Fairbanks at Eielson Air Force Base.  Some of 
the non-divided portions are tagged as trunk while the other (majority) is 
tagged as primary.  The definitions of these two tags are similar enough in the 
U.S. to almost be interchangeable.  Being that this highway links many villages 
with Canada and the City of Fairbanks and the speed limit is 65 MPH, I would 
lean towards this highway being tagged as trunk.  By the same definition, I'd 
probably argue the same for the Richardson Highway AK-4.

Thoughts?

R,
Eric "Sparks"




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