Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

It was very late this morning when I wrote that and I think I need to
clarify a bit further after a bit of sleep.

Yesterday OSM had edits in 165 countries, now while that doesn't
directly give us information on how many countries we actually have
contributors in, I think it is safe to assume that we have dozens of
different legislations to deal with. The OSMF, at least in the past, has
not made prescriptive statements or even just given guidance as to who
can sign up, who can map, where they can map and so on. For example
there are no statements on participation from countries where mapping
might be illegal. In general we simply assume that the locals know what
they are doing.

So not having anything formal from the OSMF on COPPA is not a surprise,
it should be expected. The topic itself however has had a relative high
visibility due to the US connection and the resulting fear of
enforcement if OSM was to specifically target youths in the US, as
already pointed out this was mostly before the 2013 COPPA revision.

That said, it is by far not the only issue that we are ignoring wrt
participation from minors for example they typically can't actually
enter in to contracts (at least not without lots of caveats and specific
further age limits) which would effect the validity of our sign up
process as it currently is.

If the board considers it worthwhile, the LWG could take this on and see
if there is a way to handle this (likely by some form of parental
consent) during the sign up process without creating a cascade of
further problems.

Simon

PS: given that this is slowly getting very off topic , I would suggest
carrying on the discussion on the legal-talk list.

Am 18.11.2015 um 02:26 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
>
> Am 18.11.2015 um 01:26 schrieb Kate Chapman:
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> The groups releasing Geobadges "TeachOSM with support from
>> Mapstory.org and American Geographical Society" are not large
>> multi-million dollar US organizations. None of them have highly paid
>> in-house lawyers. Thank you for pointing out the legislation, do you
>> hangout on all of the other country specific lists to point
>> out legislation to people?
>>
>> I was an active member of the community in 2009 and I'm unaware of
>> any specific discussions of this nature. There have been efforts to
>> perform outreach to high schools and scouts at least since that time.
>> If something was too sensitive to minute, then how is anyone supposed
>> to know that is the case?
>>
>>
> The 2009 public discussions were, well, public, and mainly in the
> context of the contributor terms and other T (see the legal-talk
> archives), further there is at least one draft of a OSM privacy policy
> with relevant text (which likely started to bitrot immediately) see
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy_-_Discussion_Draft#Children
> .
>
> As to other records, there are two problems: a) the OSMF wiki site
> isn't searchable so finding something is near impossible, and b) there
> is no guarantee that something was minuted in the first place,
> particularly if it was advice received from counsel (former boards
> have been very concerned about that) As a result I can just relate
> hearsay that the board or at least the subset that made up the LWG at
> the time, was informed and aware of the issue.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

I assume that you have got legal advice on the COPPA related
consequences of your activities and are willing to share this with the OSMF?

Simon

Am 17.11.2015 um 02:45 schrieb Steven Johnson:
> Hello list,
>
> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org
> and American Geographical Society, has released the first
> OpenStreetMap Surveyor I badge.[1] 
>
> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is
> awarded for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on
> OpenStreetMap. We envision this badge to be the first in a
> constellation of more specialized badges based on skill sets, domains,
> area knowledge, and so forth. For more info on the mechanics of
> GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>
> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any of
> the #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events during
> OSMGeoweek will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make sure to
> comment your changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek hashtags so we
> can find it. 
>
> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>
> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G  
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, /On
> Nature, /Empedocles
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Steven Johnson]

Hi Simon,
The developers selected the Credly platform specifically so that the OSM
community is not in the business of collecting and managing personally
identifiable information (PII). Also, we're doing two things to insure
GeoBadges users understand terms and conditions of the badging process:

1. We're adding language to the 'About' section of the site to clarify the
relationship: *"**For GeoBadge earning and issuing, we work with the
Credly.com platform. Credly manages all earner-level data and security. By
partnering with Credly, we can help earners increase the impact of their
achievements by sharing it on social media platforms and connecting to
other digital badging projects that also use Credly. To learn more about
Credly, visit credly.com .*

*GeoBadges complies with the COPPA and DCMA laws of the United States. Only
individuals age 13+ are eligible to earn GeoBadges. If any content on the
site seems inappropriate or out of compliance, please contact us
immediately at geobad...@americangeo.org ."*

2. We're removing the Grade 3-5 option, since clearly that would be
marketed to under 13.

Thanks for your concern. Hope I've addressed your question. Best regards,


-- SEJ
-- twitter: @geomantic
-- skype: sejohnson8

"Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, *On Nature,
*Empedocles

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
> I assume that you have got legal advice on the COPPA related consequences
> of your activities and are willing to share this with the OSMF?
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 17.11.2015 um 02:45 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>
> Hello list,
>
> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org and
> American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
> Surveyor I badge.[1]
>
> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is awarded
> for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on OpenStreetMap. We
> envision this badge to be the first in a constellation of more specialized
> badges based on skill sets, domains, area knowledge, and so forth. For more
> info on the mechanics of GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>
> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any of the
> #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events during OSMGeoweek
> will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make sure to comment your
> changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek hashtags so we can find it.
>
> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>
> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G 
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, *On
> Nature, *Empedocles
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing 
> listTalk-us@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

Hi Kate

The changes on Geobadges are naturally OK (in a way, more see below)  it
just isn't backed up by measures on the OSMF side. Aka we don't do any
age checking at all and I'm slightly concerned that addressing US youths
and only having (whatever) enforcement for half of the equation is not
such a good idea. I'm further slightly concerned that multi-million
budget US based organisations, likely with dozens of highly paid
in-house lawyers, need me to point out their local legislation to them.

The more general, relevant for OSM, issue is that we should fix the
problem properly where we can, given that sooner or later we wont be
able to ignore it. And it seems that it is now "sooner".  Either arrange
things that we are either exempt from getting consent from the parents,
having a procedure in place for this to be documented or at least some
measures in place that outline what the potential dangers are (doodling
"my home" on the map has a different quality if a 60 year does it than a
10 year old) . 

To be clear: "I" don't want to exclude a 12 year old US resident that is
interested in collecting  data in their neighbourhood from making
surveying for OSM their hobby*, as a result I'm slightly unhappy with
the above, but short term it is likely the only thing we can do.

As to "people all over the world are encouraging teenagers": there are
likely numerous other countries where their is similar legislation. it
is simply that the US is a  well known case. The oldest discussions of
this go back to at least 2009 (before I was an active member of the
community). From the LWG side, if I'm not totally mistaken, the policy
has always been to not specifically target children and youths. This may
have been considered so sensitive that it was never minuted,, but the
current and past board members that were involved are well aware of this.

Simon


* personal opinion as a parent is that I don't see a value in trying to
get kids to spend even more time in from of a screen simply arm
chairing, but going outside collecting stuff, great.

Am 17.11.2015 um 22:11 schrieb Kate Chapman:
> Hi Simon,
>
> What do you mean by address the OSM side of things? People all over
> the world are encouraging teenagers to contribute to OSM, this has
> been on going for years. Steven removed the part which encouraged
> people under the age of 13. What is the issue?
>
> -Kate
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Simon Poole  > wrote:
>
> Thais good, but doesn't address the OSM side of things.
>
> Historically, aka pre 2013 revision of COPPA, we couldn't touch
> sub 13teeners with a long pole. That may have improved a bit,
> theoretically, with the 2013 revision of COPPA, but nobody has
> actually done the foot- and paperwork involved to find out and
> address any issues.
>
> I don't want to dig too deep in to the things that might be
> considered problematic given general US paranoia on such topics,
> but I would consider completely ignoring this a bit risky.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 17.11.2015 um 19:03 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>> Hi Simon,
>> The developers selected the Credly platform specifically so that
>> the OSM community is not in the business of collecting and
>> managing personally identifiable information (PII). Also, we're
>> doing two things to insure GeoBadges users understand terms and
>> conditions of the badging process:
>>
>> 1. We're adding language to the 'About' section of the site to
>> clarify the relationship: /"//For GeoBadge earning and issuing,
>> we work with the Credly.com platform. Credly manages all
>> earner-level data and security. By partnering with Credly, we can
>> help earners increase the impact of their achievements by sharing
>> it on social media platforms and connecting to other digital
>> badging projects that also use Credly. To learn more about
>> Credly, visit credly.com ./
>> /
>> /
>> /GeoBadges complies with the COPPA and DCMA laws of the United
>> States. Only individuals age 13+ are eligible to earn GeoBadges.
>> If any content on the site seems inappropriate or out of
>> compliance, please contact us immediately
>> at geobad...@americangeo.org ."/
>> /
>> /
>> 2. We're removing the Grade 3-5 option, since clearly that would
>> be marketed to under 13.
>>
>> Thanks for your concern. Hope I've addressed your question. Best
>> regards,
>>
>>
>> -- SEJ
>> -- twitter: @geomantic
>> -- skype: sejohnson8
>>
>> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" -
>> v.141, /On Nature, /Empedocles
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Simon Poole > > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I assume that you have got legal advice on the COPPA related
>> consequences of your activities and are 

Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Simon,

The groups releasing Geobadges "TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org and
American Geographical Society" are not large multi-million dollar US
organizations. None of them have highly paid in-house lawyers. Thank you
for pointing out the legislation, do you hangout on all of the other
country specific lists to point out legislation to people?

I was an active member of the community in 2009 and I'm unaware of any
specific discussions of this nature. There have been efforts to perform
outreach to high schools and scouts at least since that time. If something
was too sensitive to minute, then how is anyone supposed to know that is
the case?

-Kate







On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Hi Kate
>
> The changes on Geobadges are naturally OK (in a way, more see below)  it
> just isn't backed up by measures on the OSMF side. Aka we don't do any age
> checking at all and I'm slightly concerned that addressing US youths and
> only having (whatever) enforcement for half of the equation is not such a
> good idea. I'm further slightly concerned that multi-million budget US
> based organisations, likely with dozens of highly paid in-house lawyers,
> need me to point out their local legislation to them.
>
> The more general, relevant for OSM, issue is that we should fix the
> problem properly where we can, given that sooner or later we wont be able
> to ignore it. And it seems that it is now "sooner".  Either arrange things
> that we are either exempt from getting consent from the parents, having a
> procedure in place for this to be documented or at least some measures in
> place that outline what the potential dangers are (doodling "my home" on
> the map has a different quality if a 60 year does it than a 10 year old) .
>
> To be clear: "I" don't want to exclude a 12 year old US resident that is
> interested in collecting  data in their neighbourhood from making surveying
> for OSM their hobby*, as a result I'm slightly unhappy with the above, but
> short term it is likely the only thing we can do.
>
> As to "people all over the world are encouraging teenagers": there are
> likely numerous other countries where their is similar legislation. it is
> simply that the US is a  well known case. The oldest discussions of this go
> back to at least 2009 (before I was an active member of the community).
> From the LWG side, if I'm not totally mistaken, the policy has always been
> to not specifically target children and youths. This may have been
> considered so sensitive that it was never minuted,, but the current and
> past board members that were involved are well aware of this.
>
> Simon
>
>
> * personal opinion as a parent is that I don't see a value in trying to
> get kids to spend even more time in from of a screen simply arm chairing,
> but going outside collecting stuff, great.
>
>
> Am 17.11.2015 um 22:11 schrieb Kate Chapman:
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> What do you mean by address the OSM side of things? People all over the
> world are encouraging teenagers to contribute to OSM, this has been on
> going for years. Steven removed the part which encouraged people under the
> age of 13. What is the issue?
>
> -Kate
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>> Thais good, but doesn't address the OSM side of things.
>>
>> Historically, aka pre 2013 revision of COPPA, we couldn't touch sub
>> 13teeners with a long pole. That may have improved a bit, theoretically,
>> with the 2013 revision of COPPA, but nobody has actually done the foot- and
>> paperwork involved to find out and address any issues.
>>
>> I don't want to dig too deep in to the things that might be considered
>> problematic given general US paranoia on such topics, but I would consider
>> completely ignoring this a bit risky.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Am 17.11.2015 um 19:03 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>>
>> Hi Simon,
>> The developers selected the Credly platform specifically so that the OSM
>> community is not in the business of collecting and managing personally
>> identifiable information (PII). Also, we're doing two things to insure
>> GeoBadges users understand terms and conditions of the badging process:
>>
>> 1. We're adding language to the 'About' section of the site to clarify
>> the relationship: *"**For GeoBadge earning and issuing, we work with the
>> Credly.com platform. Credly manages all earner-level data and security. By
>> partnering with Credly, we can help earners increase the impact of their
>> achievements by sharing it on social media platforms and connecting to
>> other digital badging projects that also use Credly. To learn more about
>> Credly, visit credly.com .*
>>
>> *GeoBadges complies with the COPPA and DCMA laws of the United States.
>> Only individuals age 13+ are eligible to earn GeoBadges. If any content on
>> the site seems inappropriate or out of compliance, please contact us
>> immediately at geobad...@americangeo.org 

Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

Am 18.11.2015 um 01:26 schrieb Kate Chapman:
> Hi Simon,
>
> The groups releasing Geobadges "TeachOSM with support from
> Mapstory.org and American Geographical Society" are not large
> multi-million dollar US organizations. None of them have highly paid
> in-house lawyers. Thank you for pointing out the legislation, do you
> hangout on all of the other country specific lists to point
> out legislation to people?
>
> I was an active member of the community in 2009 and I'm unaware of any
> specific discussions of this nature. There have been efforts to
> perform outreach to high schools and scouts at least since that time.
> If something was too sensitive to minute, then how is anyone supposed
> to know that is the case?
>
>
The 2009 public discussions were, well, public, and mainly in the
context of the contributor terms and other T (see the legal-talk
archives), further there is at least one draft of a OSM privacy policy
with relevant text (which likely started to bitrot immediately) see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy_-_Discussion_Draft#Children
.

As to other records, there are two problems: a) the OSMF wiki site isn't
searchable so finding something is near impossible, and b) there is no
guarantee that something was minuted in the first place, particularly if
it was advice received from counsel (former boards have been very
concerned about that) As a result I can just relate hearsay that the
board or at least the subset that made up the LWG at the time, was
informed and aware of the issue.

Simon



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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Paul Norman]

On 11/16/2015 6:09 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:

Hi Frederik,
Thanks for the suggestion and I appreciate the distinction. Because 
this is our first outing, we're sure that the badge will evolve and 
the requirements are terminology will evolve with them.


I would suggest "Editor" for the criteria listed on 
http://www.geobadges.org/#/pathway/564211c60b3048110032e5c2 and only to 
use Surveyor where someone has surveyed. To do otherwise is to mislead 
people as to someone's accomplishments.


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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Simon Poole]

Thais good, but doesn't address the OSM side of things.

Historically, aka pre 2013 revision of COPPA, we couldn't touch sub
13teeners with a long pole. That may have improved a bit, theoretically,
with the 2013 revision of COPPA, but nobody has actually done the foot-
and paperwork involved to find out and address any issues.

I don't want to dig too deep in to the things that might be considered
problematic given general US paranoia on such topics, but I would
consider completely ignoring this a bit risky.

Simon

Am 17.11.2015 um 19:03 schrieb Steven Johnson:
> Hi Simon,
> The developers selected the Credly platform specifically so that the
> OSM community is not in the business of collecting and managing
> personally identifiable information (PII). Also, we're doing two
> things to insure GeoBadges users understand terms and conditions of
> the badging process:
>
> 1. We're adding language to the 'About' section of the site to clarify
> the relationship: /"//For GeoBadge earning and issuing, we work with
> the Credly.com platform. Credly manages all earner-level data and
> security. By partnering with Credly, we can help earners increase the
> impact of their achievements by sharing it on social media platforms
> and connecting to other digital badging projects that also use Credly.
> To learn more about Credly, visit credly.com ./
> /
> /
> /GeoBadges complies with the COPPA and DCMA laws of the United States.
> Only individuals age 13+ are eligible to earn GeoBadges. If any
> content on the site seems inappropriate or out of compliance, please
> contact us immediately at geobad...@americangeo.org
> ."/
> /
> /
> 2. We're removing the Grade 3-5 option, since clearly that would be
> marketed to under 13.
>
> Thanks for your concern. Hope I've addressed your question. Best regards,
>
>
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, /On
> Nature, /Empedocles
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Simon Poole  > wrote:
>
>
> I assume that you have got legal advice on the COPPA related
> consequences of your activities and are willing to share this with
> the OSMF?
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 17.11.2015 um 02:45 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>> Hello list,
>>
>> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from
>> Mapstory.org and American Geographical Society, has released the
>> first OpenStreetMap Surveyor I badge.[1] 
>>
>> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is
>> awarded for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on
>> OpenStreetMap. We envision this badge to be the first in a
>> constellation of more specialized badges based on skill sets,
>> domains, area knowledge, and so forth. For more info on the
>> mechanics of GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>>
>> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any
>> of the #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events
>> during OSMGeoweek will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make
>> sure to comment your changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek
>> hashtags so we can find it. 
>>
>> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>>
>> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
>> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G  
>> -- SEJ
>> -- twitter: @geomantic
>> -- skype: sejohnson8
>>
>> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" -
>> v.141, /On Nature, /Empedocles
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>



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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Simon,

What do you mean by address the OSM side of things? People all over the
world are encouraging teenagers to contribute to OSM, this has been on
going for years. Steven removed the part which encouraged people under the
age of 13. What is the issue?

-Kate

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Thais good, but doesn't address the OSM side of things.
>
> Historically, aka pre 2013 revision of COPPA, we couldn't touch sub
> 13teeners with a long pole. That may have improved a bit, theoretically,
> with the 2013 revision of COPPA, but nobody has actually done the foot- and
> paperwork involved to find out and address any issues.
>
> I don't want to dig too deep in to the things that might be considered
> problematic given general US paranoia on such topics, but I would consider
> completely ignoring this a bit risky.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 17.11.2015 um 19:03 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>
> Hi Simon,
> The developers selected the Credly platform specifically so that the OSM
> community is not in the business of collecting and managing personally
> identifiable information (PII). Also, we're doing two things to insure
> GeoBadges users understand terms and conditions of the badging process:
>
> 1. We're adding language to the 'About' section of the site to clarify
> the relationship: *"**For GeoBadge earning and issuing, we work with the
> Credly.com platform. Credly manages all earner-level data and security. By
> partnering with Credly, we can help earners increase the impact of their
> achievements by sharing it on social media platforms and connecting to
> other digital badging projects that also use Credly. To learn more about
> Credly, visit credly.com .*
>
> *GeoBadges complies with the COPPA and DCMA laws of the United States.
> Only individuals age 13+ are eligible to earn GeoBadges. If any content on
> the site seems inappropriate or out of compliance, please contact us
> immediately at  geobad...@americangeo.org
> ."*
>
> 2. We're removing the Grade 3-5 option, since clearly that would be
> marketed to under 13.
>
> Thanks for your concern. Hope I've addressed your question. Best regards,
>
>
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, *On
> Nature, *Empedocles
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>>
>> I assume that you have got legal advice on the COPPA related consequences
>> of your activities and are willing to share this with the OSMF?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Am 17.11.2015 um 02:45 schrieb Steven Johnson:
>>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org and
>> American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
>> Surveyor I badge.[1]
>>
>> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is awarded
>> for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on OpenStreetMap. We
>> envision this badge to be the first in a constellation of more specialized
>> badges based on skill sets, domains, area knowledge, and so forth. For more
>> info on the mechanics of GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>>
>> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any of the
>> #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events during OSMGeoweek
>> will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make sure to comment your
>> changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek hashtags so we can find it.
>>
>> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>>
>> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
>> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G 
>> -- SEJ
>> -- twitter: @geomantic
>> -- skype: sejohnson8
>>
>> "Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, *On
>> Nature, *Empedocles
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Steven Johnson 
wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org and
> American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
> Surveyor I badge.[1]
>
> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is awarded
> for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on OpenStreetMap. We
> envision this badge to be the first in a constellation of more specialized
> badges based on skill sets, domains, area knowledge, and so forth. For more
> info on the mechanics of GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>
> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any of the
> #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events during OSMGeoweek
> will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make sure to comment your
> changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek hashtags so we can find it.
>
> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>
> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G 
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
>
Steven Johnson,

Like dude!  My hat is off to you!!!  You dared to violate the mainstream
[1] way of doing OSM business.  I don't know if we should call you Newton
[2], Galileo [3], Ignaz [4], Lincoln [6], or suffrage [7].  All I know is
that it takes a long [4][8] to make changes around here. I don't get why
OpenStreetMap has such a problem with some of the key tenants of Open
Source:
* Show me the code to make it better if the current code is wrong.
* Release early and release often.
* Use the force read the source.
I just saw these videos today. I get what you are trying to do!!!
1.) You are trying to help new mappers choose a lovable project to focus
on. [9][10].
2.) You are helping new mappers by picking one topic at a time to focus
energy on. [9][10]
3.) You are doing new mappers a favor by helping them define a performance
level. [9][10]
4.) and how to deconstructing the skill into subskills for them with badge
levels.
5) What's totally awesome about your plan is that you are providing time
frames for each subskill in say 20 hours. [9][10]
Oh my goodness! Steven your are a rocket scientist when it comes to those
little badges.  I get that you are starting at "Surveyor I" with just
setting up an account.  You have a plan to build on badge I with editing,
advanced editing, reading aerials, using KeepRight, and finally ending up
at say,Surveyor 25 after learning all the survey techniques.

I hope that you keep at your idea as you have dared to "Release early" in
hopes of developing a community around the system.  I hope that you can
ignore all the negative feedback [11] and return here for further refine
your badge ideas,"release often".  Hey I know that there are some pervs on
the network.  Even though the pervs exist, there are all these kids out
there that lie behind their parents backs and have a facebook page at 12.
Yes and they also lie about their age too to get that FB account.  If your
program fails approval based on age issues, I think you are on track to
develop the idea for "adults". The rewards idea are awesome. The current
plan of making new mappers think that have to have $20,000 of GPS
equipment[12] before adding a single node isn't working.

Keep up the good work Steve!

Regards,
Greg


mainstream
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=309
Newton
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=470
Galileo
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=617
Ignaz Semmelweis
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=716
It takes a long time.
[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=836
Lincoln
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=866
Suffrage
[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=912
It takes a long time like gravity
[8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU=946
Visual summary "The First 20 Hours"
[9]
http://sachachua.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/20130705-Visual-Book-Review-The-First-20-Hours-How-to-Learn-Anything...-Fast-Josh-Kaufman.png
You tube "The First 20 Hours" interview.
[10] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB6K60mkmho
feedback
[11] https://youtu.be/Bxtb-PpZih8?t=653
$20,000 to mark plant locations for a database.
[12] http://www.meetup.com/PHXGeo/photos/21943882/364216142/#364216142
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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Frederik Ramm]

Steven,

On 11/17/2015 02:45 AM, Steven Johnson wrote:
> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org
> and American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
> Surveyor I badge.[1] 

It's a great idea to make badges but I have a very big PLEASE: please,
could you reserve the word "surveyor" for people who actually, you know,
survey something, as in going out with a measuring device or even just a
notepad and getting their boots dirty?

And if you give people a badge for digitzing something off of a picture
someone else has taken, give that badge a different name than "Surveyor
badge"?

I'm looking forward to there being proper surveyor badges in the future
where the proof is your GPX trace or the paper you scribbled on in the
field ;)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Steven Johnson]

Hi Frederik,
Thanks for the suggestion and I appreciate the distinction. Because this is
our first outing, we're sure that the badge will evolve and the
requirements are terminology will evolve with them.
Best,

-- SEJ
-- twitter: @geomantic
-- skype: sejohnson8

"Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands off beans!" - v.141, *On Nature,
*Empedocles

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Steven,
>
> On 11/17/2015 02:45 AM, Steven Johnson wrote:
> > Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org
> > and American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
> > Surveyor I badge.[1]
>
> It's a great idea to make badges but I have a very big PLEASE: please,
> could you reserve the word "surveyor" for people who actually, you know,
> survey something, as in going out with a measuring device or even just a
> notepad and getting their boots dirty?
>
> And if you give people a badge for digitzing something off of a picture
> someone else has taken, give that badge a different name than "Surveyor
> badge"?
>
> I'm looking forward to there being proper surveyor badges in the future
> where the proof is your GPX trace or the paper you scribbled on in the
> field ;)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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