Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-20 Thread Vivek Bansal 
Hey Peter,

I'd like to first say I didn't really know what your account was doing when
I saw those stop_lines, but I certainly see some value in them now.  I hope
your company stays engaged and keeps contributing to OpenStreetMap!

I think there is more value in having the ways re-tagged than having them
deleted.  I think one of the important things is that the road_marking ways
should be joined to any relevant intersecting ways (probably highways) with
a node (utilsplugin2 should help).

-Vivek



On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:12 AM peter flier  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> This being my first post to this list, I hope it has gotten through. As
> Vivek has mentioned, we have a productive discussion about how best to
> address the digitization of stoplines and the havoc my approach has wrought
> upon all of you.
>
> First, let me say I am sorry that my initial incursion into the new
> feature type was so categorically disruptive to people's workflows. I had
> attempted to propose this feature as a free to the public service my
> company was going to be providing as a secondary result of our work. I
> scoured OSM for a proper feature type that could be used for this purpose
> and found nothing that quite lined up (pun intended!), so I proposed my own
> and moved forward with it. It was only afterwards that I was informed of
> the experimental road_marking feature type which would encompass nearly all
> of the stop lines I would be adding.
>
> If there are no objections to the re-tagging of these ways, I will move
> things over in bulk through JOSM and add future stop lines under the
> "road_marking= solid_stop_line" pairing.
>
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[Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-20 Thread peter flier 
Hello everyone,

This being my first post to this list, I hope it has gotten through. As
Vivek has mentioned, we have a productive discussion about how best to
address the digitization of stoplines and the havoc my approach has wrought
upon all of you.

First, let me say I am sorry that my initial incursion into the new feature
type was so categorically disruptive to people's workflows. I had attempted
to propose this feature as a free to the public service my company was
going to be providing as a secondary result of our work. I scoured OSM for
a proper feature type that could be used for this purpose and found nothing
that quite lined up (pun intended!), so I proposed my own and moved forward
with it. It was only afterwards that I was informed of the experimental
road_marking feature type which would encompass nearly all of the stop
lines I would be adding.

If there are no objections to the re-tagging of these ways, I will move
things over in bulk through JOSM and add future stop lines under the
"road_marking= solid_stop_line" pairing.
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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-19 Thread Vivek Bansal 
All,

I messaged pflier last night and today we have been having a fruitful and
positive discussion.  As soon as he gets access to the list he will comment.

-3vivekb



On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:27 AM Saikrishna Arcot 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've seen the new stoplines in San Jose as well, and the reason they're
> not useful as-is IMO is because they're not connected to the main road that
> has the stop line; it's just a floating disconnected way. If they were
> connected to the road, then it would be more useful to data users, but in
> their current state, for it to be of use, data users would have to do some
> additional processing on their end to find out what way it intersects to
> see where it applies.
>
>
> On 09/19/2017 08:00 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
>> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
>> workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re adding
>> sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if the
>> concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful anyways.
>> Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead they should
>> be a road_marking.
>>
>> This also affects Phoenix, Arizona.
>>
>> Here is a link to pfliers history:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pflier/history#map=6/38.882/-117.411
>>
>> Here is pfliers proposal:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line
>>
>> -3vivekb
>>
>> I noticed the new tagging in Phoenix.  I sent the Keep Right maintainer a
> request that excludes highway=stopline from "intersections without
> junctions" checking.  I do not believe the sky is falling.  I don't see how
> these stoplines would have to be remapped.  When we look at the data, all
> the Phoenix stoplines are mapped by traffic lights.  I am not sure how
> stoplines would impact your workflow.  Ignore the Josm validation
> recommendations for these stoplines.  I haven't put a request into Josm
> maintainers but it is certainly something that you can do.
>
> The proposal has something to do with autonomous cars. The stoplines may
> just be perfect for the Phoenix area.
>
> http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/06/23/arizona-getting-ahead-autonomous-vehicle-industry-stepping-aside-waymo-uber-intel-chevy-bolt/405436001/
>
>
> https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=15=33.51322=-112.06043=B0T=0%2C130%2C191%2C192%2C193%2C194%2C195%2C196%2C197%2C198_ign=0_tmpign=0
>
>
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>
> --
> Saikrishna Arcot
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-19 Thread Saikrishna Arcot 
Hi,

I've seen the new stoplines in San Jose as well, and the reason they're
not useful as-is IMO is because they're not connected to the main road
that has the stop line; it's just a floating disconnected way. If they
were connected to the road, then it would be more useful to data users,
but in their current state, for it to be of use, data users would have
to do some additional processing on their end to find out what way it
intersects to see where it applies.

On 09/19/2017 08:00 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering
> up our workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator
> as we’re adding sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big
> mechanical edit? Even if the concept is good, they’d have to be
> remapped in order to be useful anyways. Maybe they should be a
> node along the centerline.  Or instead they should be a road_marking.
>
> This also affects Phoenix, Arizona.
>
> Here is a link to pfliers history:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pflier/history#map=6/38.882/-117.411
> 
>
> Here is pfliers proposal:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line
> 
>
> -3vivekb
>
> I noticed the new tagging in Phoenix.  I sent the Keep Right
> maintainer a request that excludes highway=stopline from
> "intersections without junctions" checking.  I do not believe the sky
> is falling.  I don't see how these stoplines would have to be
> remapped.  When we look at the data, all the Phoenix stoplines are
> mapped by traffic lights.  I am not sure how stoplines would impact
> your workflow.  Ignore the Josm validation recommendations for these
> stoplines.  I haven't put a request into Josm maintainers but it is
> certainly something that you can do.
>
> The proposal has something to do with autonomous cars. The stoplines
> may just be perfect for the Phoenix area.
> http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/06/23/arizona-getting-ahead-autonomous-vehicle-industry-stepping-aside-waymo-uber-intel-chevy-bolt/405436001/
>
> https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=15=33.51322=-112.06043=B0T=0%2C130%2C191%2C192%2C193%2C194%2C195%2C196%2C197%2C198_ign=0_tmpign=0
>
>
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-- 
Saikrishna Arcot



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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-19 Thread Greg Morgan 
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
> workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re adding
> sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if the
> concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful anyways.
> Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead they should
> be a road_marking.
>
> This also affects Phoenix, Arizona.
>
> Here is a link to pfliers history:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pflier/history#map=6/38.882/-117.411
>
> Here is pfliers proposal:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line
>
> -3vivekb
>
> I noticed the new tagging in Phoenix.  I sent the Keep Right maintainer a
request that excludes highway=stopline from "intersections without
junctions" checking.  I do not believe the sky is falling.  I don't see how
these stoplines would have to be remapped.  When we look at the data, all
the Phoenix stoplines are mapped by traffic lights.  I am not sure how
stoplines would impact your workflow.  Ignore the Josm validation
recommendations for these stoplines.  I haven't put a request into Josm
maintainers but it is certainly something that you can do.

The proposal has something to do with autonomous cars. The stoplines may
just be perfect for the Phoenix area.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/06/23/arizona-getting-ahead-autonomous-vehicle-industry-stepping-aside-waymo-uber-intel-chevy-bolt/405436001/

https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=15=33.51322=-112.06043=B0T=0%2C130%2C191%2C192%2C193%2C194%2C195%2C196%2C197%2C198_ign=0_tmpign=0
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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-19 Thread Frederik Ramm 
Hi,

On 19.09.2017 03:39, Vivek Bansal wrote:
> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
> workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re
> adding sidewalks. 

Who is "we"?

> Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if
> the concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful
> anyways. 

I'm unsure - why do you think they have to be "remapped to be useful"?
Useful to whom? Have you discussed this with the user (or have you at
least tried)?

It sounds to me as if there are two contravening goals here. One, we
would like to avoid people adding "niche" information to the map that
makes it more difficult for other mappers to do their work. But on the
other hand, we encourage people when they're planning to introduce a new
tag, to "test-run" it for feasibility. You don't have to ask for
permission to map something new, and you shouldn't have to expect others
to simply remove your stuff because their chosen editor pops up a
warning. (It could be the editor or the workflow that need changing, not
the data.)

> Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead
> they should be a road_marking.

That's a valuable discussion to be held, and I would suggest to hold
this discussion before removing anything, if possible (and if the user
in question is willing to discuss).

Your sidewalks are not per se more important or more valuable than
pfliers' stop lines, and you wouldn't want someone else to simply
mass-delete your sidewalks because their editor showed them a warning
when adding stop lines!

> Here is pfliers proposal:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line

The proposal certainly needs fleshing out. Personally I think the use of
the "highway" tag is questionable since there will be many applications
out there that treat any linear feature with highway=* as something you
can travel on.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-18 Thread Shawn K. Quinn 
On 09/18/2017 08:39 PM, Vivek Bansal wrote:
> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
> workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re
> adding sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if
> the concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful
> anyways. Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead
> they should be a road_marking.

Ideally, the position of the highway=stop/yield node should convey this
information. In the case of a nearby highway=traffic_signals I could
maybe see road_marking=stopline, but not under highway=*.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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[Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

2017-09-18 Thread Vivek Bansal 
Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
`highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re adding
sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if the
concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful anyways.
Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead they should
be a road_marking.

This also affects Phoenix, Arizona.

Here is a link to pfliers history:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pflier/history#map=6/38.882/-117.411

Here is pfliers proposal:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line

-3vivekb
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