Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
Paper maps handle this with Closed in winter. access=seasonal seems the tagging equivalent. Then, perhaps, if actual dates are announced they could be coded: access:announced_opening=20140501 A router may key off access=seasonal to warn people that a closure date needs to be checked for. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com wrote: Having recently moved to Red Lodge, Montana, I'm trying to update some of the map data around here, as a lot of it is untouched TIGER data that seems to be fairly imaginative. Just south of town, US-212 is closed for the winter. The closing date is mid-October (varies a little year-to-year, but it is calendar-based) and the opening date is based on when the road is clear of snow, ice, and other debris (i.e. significant variation year-to-year is possible). Beartooth Pass! Woo! Highest place I've ever driven. Also, I really like the name and the place. When the road is closed, it is truly closed (per signs and gate); it's not just a unmaintained, travel at your own risk situation. Anyone have suggestions for tagging this segment of road? date_on and date_off were the best options I came up with in a search, but the variation in opening date seems to make that a bad choice. Seems like this might be something that needs to be regularly adjusted, by setting the affected section to access=no. If there's multiple segments, gotta wonder if this would be an acceptable misuse of a relation to make it easier to maintain (just to be able to pull down all the related objects subject to winter closure on that road at once). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 03.11.2014 um 16:03 schrieb Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: seems access=seasonal isn't in wide use but would be correct I think that this is not so nice tagging as it doesn't say anything about which season you'll be allowed to access. I would suggest conditional access, see the wiki for more info, it is something like access:conditional=no @ winter (I'm on mobile and didn't check this syntax) This seems cleaner, as at least then routers can compare the date, which hemisphere they're in and say, Hey, this might be closed, wanna try a different way? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
I am wondering what can done to provide travelers planning information via OSM. You have to rely on local news while you are in a foreign area. How can a gated road be tagged so that travelers know to plan an alternate road or think about hotel reservations for the night? I am not happy with my Skunk Creek gates but at least they are there. More minuta below. Regards, Greg Yep. You have take the northeast entrance of Yellowstone Park to get to Cooke City Montana on US 212 during the winter. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/44.5018/-109.9734 http://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/810-beartooth-highway-usa.html There is the same issue with the east entrance of the Yellowstone Park. You have to hang out at Pahaska Tepee until the road clears. That's all the way into late May most years http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/44.5020/-109.9629 I marked the flood gates by Skunk Creek on West Dove Valley Road. I put them to the side of the road because a gate on the road implies the wrong message. The Arizona method of road construction is you scrape out a dirt road. The ground is hard enough that we can get away with it. Later on you throw some tar down when you have more money. More money means a cement plug through the river bed so that the road survives flooding. Pray and wait for the funding for a bridge. I noted that Wyoming has all these snow gates outside of cities along I90 and other roads. There are plans to put up wind farms for California in some of these areas. A week or so after first flood late August 2014 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/33.78419/-112.12596 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tbHhMckFxbFV6MUE/view *https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tS2JtSHBSNnJNM0E/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tS2JtSHBSNnJNM0E/view* https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tdFdXenZyRFVVT0U/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tdFdXenZyRFVVT0U/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tV0ZKVlN6SDlTY3c/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tSTJ1MXZQVVNaemM/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tS2JtSHBSNnJNM0E/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tUDNScnJhdlJYTnc/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tbFNNUlNaNy12SG8/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tUDNScnJhdlJYTnc/view The next morning after the second flood second week September 2014 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.59086/-111.97704 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tSUhHczBibWRJYVE/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tSUhHczBibWRJYVE/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tSUhHczBibWRJYVE/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tS3hfT3p3U3VMS1k/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tS3hfT3p3U3VMS1k/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tTkhkbWE1UFgzcGs/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tTkhkbWE1UFgzcGs/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4telBqdlVRVDhtbVk/view http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.58235/-111.98358 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tZkliMmVOaExURzg/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tTmRoYjVkZWN3R2s/view Wyoming snow gate somewhere west of Buffalo http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/44.3290/-106.7929 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tRk5IUHJGb3p4ak0/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7WBSr9fv4tRk5IUHJGb3p4ak0/view?usp=sharing http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/01/snow_fences_how_do_they_work_what_are_they_where_did_they_come_from_photos.html http://www.usroads.com/journals/rej/9702/re970201.htm On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:02 PM, David Chiles dwalt...@gmail.com wrote: I agree something like access:conditional=no @ (winter) access:conditional=no @ (Nov - Apr) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 03.11.2014 um 16:03 schrieb Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: seems access=seasonal isn't in wide use but would be correct I think that this is not so nice tagging as it doesn't say anything about which season you'll be allowed to access. I would suggest conditional access, see the wiki for more info, it is something like access:conditional=no @ winter (I'm on mobile and didn't check this syntax) cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
I agree something like access:conditional=no @ (winter) access:conditional=no @ (Nov - Apr) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 03.11.2014 um 16:03 schrieb Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: seems access=seasonal isn't in wide use but would be correct I think that this is not so nice tagging as it doesn't say anything about which season you'll be allowed to access. I would suggest conditional access, see the wiki for more info, it is something like access:conditional=no @ winter (I'm on mobile and didn't check this syntax) cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
seems access=seasonal isn't in wide use but would be correct. At first glance, I'd prefer a tag that works to get the message out correctly all the time. So, access=seasonal or similar. That would work for a consumer who received the data when the road was open, but tried to navigate when the road was closed. an additional seasonal:access:link=http://dot.highway-pass-status.example/gate-7/; would be super helpful, if such a service exists. http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=access%3Dseasonal faking it, to get it to render on a particular map is not recommended. So, highway=construction, or similar, wouldn't apply. I imagine that other communities with mountain passes will have considered this, perhaps ask on talk@ and hope for a reply from a mapper in the Alps, etc. :-) Easy for me to say from my frying-pan-flat glacial-run-off plain. :-) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
Am 03.11.2014 um 16:03 schrieb Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: seems access=seasonal isn't in wide use but would be correct I think that this is not so nice tagging as it doesn't say anything about which season you'll be allowed to access. I would suggest conditional access, see the wiki for more info, it is something like access:conditional=no @ winter (I'm on mobile and didn't check this syntax) cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
Having recently moved to Red Lodge, Montana, I'm trying to update some of the map data around here, as a lot of it is untouched TIGER data that seems to be fairly imaginative. Just south of town, US-212 is closed for the winter. The closing date is mid-October (varies a little year-to-year, but it is calendar-based) and the opening date is based on when the road is clear of snow, ice, and other debris (i.e. significant variation year-to-year is possible). When the road is closed, it is truly closed (per signs and gate); it's not just a unmaintained, travel at your own risk situation. Anyone have suggestions for tagging this segment of road? date_on and date_off were the best options I came up with in a search, but the variation in opening date seems to make that a bad choice. -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening
If someone has a good solution for this, I'd like it too! It is actually a bit worse here in California as both the opening and closing is based on weather and can vary significantly from year to year. Best I've come up with is to tag the location of the gate and put the following on the gate node: barrier=gate access=permissive or access=no note=Seasonal closure from first snow until spring, see CalTrans website for status website=http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi To further confuse the issue, some highways have multiple gates at different elevations and the closure notices are often worded as closed x miles beyond Strawberry (or some such) and you need to figure out which gate they are referring to. If I am sure I will be vigilant when spring comes, I might change the access=permissive to access=no when I see the official status go to closed and then change it back in spring when the road reopens. That is bad form but since the dates fit no pattern and knowing if the road is open or not is a big deal for routers I think it needs to be indicated in some way. There appears to be some sort of state to state shared database about highway conditions: At least the CalTrans QuickMap application for Android at http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/app.htm shows some road information for highways outside of California. If that is publicly accessible then a tag in OSM indicating how to access that information for a specific closure would allow routing applications to determine the current state without polluting OSM with seasonal changes. Is there and API to allow routing software to query highway status for all of the US? North America? If there is such an API then we could come up with a tag in OSM to give the details needed for the specific query for that location. -Tod On Nov 2, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Kevin Broderick wrote: Having recently moved to Red Lodge, Montana, I'm trying to update some of the map data around here, as a lot of it is untouched TIGER data that seems to be fairly imaginative. Just south of town, US-212 is closed for the winter. The closing date is mid-October (varies a little year-to-year, but it is calendar-based) and the opening date is based on when the road is clear of snow, ice, and other debris (i.e. significant variation year-to-year is possible). When the road is closed, it is truly closed (per signs and gate); it's not just a unmaintained, travel at your own risk situation. Anyone have suggestions for tagging this segment of road? date_on and date_off were the best options I came up with in a search, but the variation in opening date seems to make that a bad choice. -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
