Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 09:37 Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Leif --
>
> I like the idea of making this more consistent. I am not convinced that
> 'United States Postal Service' is an improvement over 'USPS'. (Should we
> also rename 'UPS' to 'United Parcel Service'? 'FedEx' to 'Federal Express'?)
>

UPS, probably.  FedEx, no.  They changed their name to just FedEx some time
ago.

>
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi Leif,

> On Sep 26, 2018, at 7:16 AM, Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Martijn,
> I have very little opinion in which value of operator should be used, as long 
> as they are consistent.  I think that basing the 'preferred' values on what 
> can be found printed on the post boxes, however, is a good idea.  This 
> methodology produces the following:
> * UPS
> * FedEx
> * DHL
> * United States Postal Service
> This system makes the most sense to me, as it reduces the amount of possible 
> confusion.  DHL, as a matter of fact, can't be expanded, because it is the 
> initials of the three founders: Adrian Dalsey, Larry Hillblom, and Robert 
> Lynn.
> "United Parcel Service" is rarely seen on post boxes - only the text "ups" is.
> FedEx is the same.  The company rebranded from "Federal Express" to "FedEx" 
> in January 2000, making "FedEx" the correct value to use.
> For the United States Postal Service, the text "United States Postal Service" 
> is always displayed on the post boxes, which seems like a good argument to go 
> with the expanded version.

I see your point. If that’s what folks think is best, I certainly won’t take 
issue with it.

> 
> I think that the above values are the best, but would be happy to adopt any 
> other values.
> 
> Regarding a MapRoulette challenge, how would that work?  Would all post boxes 
> be converted to "United States Postal Service" before or after the challenge, 
> or would me changing operator tags be completely unnecessary?
> 

Right now, folks would need to edit manually, and it would be in place of an 
automated cleanup. The task would highlight an existing post_box with its 
original value and ask mappers to change it to the proposed value. The 
advantage of doing it this way is a) we can keep updating the challenge to 
re-capture ‘wrong’ tagging, so the challenge would be an ongoing one, and b) it 
encourages people to really look at the situation with a human eye which 
captures the spirit of OSM. Similar challenges exist to normalize phone numbers 
across Europe.

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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Leif Rasmussen]

Mark,
No, I was not planning on converting post boxes to the 'correct' operator
value regularly, but that sounds like a good idea.

Martijn,
I have very little opinion in which value of operator should be used, as
long as they are consistent.  I think that basing the 'preferred' values on
what can be found printed on the post boxes, however, is a good idea.  This
methodology produces the following:
* UPS
* FedEx
* DHL
* United States Postal Service
This system makes the most sense to me, as it reduces the amount of
possible confusion.  DHL, as a matter of fact, can't be expanded, because
it is the initials of the three founders: Adrian *D*alsey, Larry *H*illblom,
and Robert *L*ynn.
"United Parcel Service" is rarely seen on post boxes - only the text "ups"
is.
FedEx is the same.  The company rebranded from "Federal Express" to "FedEx"
in January 2000, making "FedEx" the correct value to use.
For the United States Postal Service, the text "United States Postal
Service" is always displayed on the post boxes, which seems like a good
argument to go with the expanded version.

I think that the above values are the best, but would be happy to adopt any
other values.

Regarding a MapRoulette challenge, how would that work?  Would all post
boxes be converted to "United States Postal Service" before or after the
challenge, or would me changing operator tags be completely unnecessary?

Clifford,
Does Nominatim consider "operator:wikipedia" and "operator:wikidata" tags?
If so, I think that that would be an issue with Nominatim, and not the
tagging, correct?  I agree with you and Brian about "wikidata" and
"wikipedia" tags being wrong, but I think that "operator:wikidata" and
"operator:wikipedia" should be fine.

Jmapb,
Good points!  Many post boxes do not have the operator value, and a
community review of those would be a great idea (if people have the time
for that).  Thanks for pointing out all of those variations of the same
operator!  I did not know that all of them existed, and will definitely
convert all to the "correct" value if I manage to go ahead with a
changeset.


Finally, should I also "fix" UPS and FedEx boxes as well in the changeset?
It would be nice for all post boxes to be consistently tagged.

Thank you,

Leif Rasmussen
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Aaron Forsythe]

I’d be weary of using what’s on the box as the operator.  There are multiple 
types of drop boxes provided by USPS (also UPS and FedEx have multiple types).  
These have different restrictions on the type of mail/packages that should go 
in those boxes.  Putting in the wrong box can likely cause a delay in the 
transit time, and even could cause a return to sender.

Personally, I’d rather go by what the operator uses with legal terms.  
Examples: Copyright © 2018 USPS, Copyright ©1994- 2018 United Parcel Service of 
America, Inc., © FedEx 1995-2018, 2018 © DHL International GmbH.  This shows 
3/4 of the major operations near here use abbreviations.  Therefore, I would 
suggest abbreviations for all.

Sorry for joining this discussion late.

- Aaron Forsythe

> For those tagged with an operator, most are one of the many variations 
on the US Postal Service name: 
> 3609 * usps
> 199 *us postal service
> 125 * u.s. postal service
> 12 * us post
> 11 * united states postal service (used to be popular before Leif's mass 
edit) 
> 4 * us mail (some older post boxes still say this on the side) 
> 1 * united states postal office
> 1 * usps express mail
> 1 * usps.com
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Jmapb]

On 9/25/2018 10:37 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:

But there's also an opportunity to have the community have another 
look at the area surrounding the nodes. It's only ~4600 items: 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Cg0 .


By far the majority of post_boxes in the USA have no operator tag: 6871 
by my count. These are highly likely to be the USPS blue boxes but of 
course it's better not to assume that. They'd be a good candidate for a 
community review.


For those tagged with an operator, most are one of the many variations 
on the US Postal Service name:

3609 * usps
199 *us postal service
125 * u.s. postal service
12 * us post
11 * united states postal service (used to be popular before Leif's mass 
edit)

4 * us mail (some older post boxes still say this on the side)
1 * united states postal office
1 * usps express mail
1 * usps.com

No doubt I've missed a few variations. There are also many (hard to 
count) where the name of the local post office branch is used for the 
operator.


Then we have the familiar shipping companies:
202 * ups
47 * united parcel service
4 * ups store
1  * the ups store
206 * fedex
9 * federal express
1 * fedex office
3 * dhl

Most of the rest are typos or questionable data. One instance of "multi" 
and one of "UPS; DHL; FedEx"... I've never seen a postal box with 
multiple operators in real life; my guess would be it's a few boxes next 
to each other.


J

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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Bryan Housel]

I agree that adding `wikipedia` or `wikidata` to each location is wrong..
But using `operator:wikidata`/`operator:wikipedia` (and or 
`brand:wikidata`/`brand:wikipedia`) should be ok, even preferred.. 

This is the approach I’m taking with 
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index 

which is the project that seeds the preset list for iD with common brand names

Thanks,
Bryan



> On Sep 25, 2018, at 10:58 AM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> 
> First off, I don't have an opinion on the naming of blue boxes. I'm am 
> concerned about adding the wikipedia tags. One of the unintended consequences 
> of adding the wikipedia tag to fast food chains is that nominatim puts those 
> locations high in the search results. We removed most of the wikipedia tags 
> to Starbucks locations a few years back. The consensus at that time was that 
> the wikipedia tag only belonged on the headquarters location and any store 
> that had a unique wikipedia article. (Only one did, the first) 
> 
> My question is, should the wikipedia tag only be placed on their headquarters 
> locatIon?
> 
> Best,
> Clifford
> 
> -- 
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us 
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Clifford Snow]

First off, I don't have an opinion on the naming of blue boxes. I'm am
concerned about adding the wikipedia tags. One of the unintended
consequences of adding the wikipedia tag to fast food chains is that
nominatim puts those locations high in the search results. We removed most
of the wikipedia tags to Starbucks locations a few years back. The
consensus at that time was that the wikipedia tag only belonged on the
headquarters location and any store that had a unique wikipedia article.
(Only one did, the first)

My question is, should the wikipedia tag only be placed on their
headquarters locatIon?

Best,
Clifford

-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Marc Gemis]

Are you planning to run this on a regular schedule  (e.g. every month) ?

m.
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 6:18 AM Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> The opinions expressed on the USPS/United States Postal Service tagging have 
> been very mixed, with seemingly equivalent numbers of people supporting both 
> options.  Based on the following facts, I have decided to convert the tag 
> "operator"="USPS" on post boxes to "operator"="United States Postal Service".
> 1) We all agree that all USPS post boxes should have the same operator tag, 
> but disagree on the minor detail of which tag is better: "USPS" or "United 
> States Postal Service".
> 2) I saw, overall, a larger number of good arguments for expanding the 
> operator tag, including the fact that the words "United States Postal 
> Service" appear on the post boxes themselves.
> 3) Expanding USPS would be in line with the OSM "expand abbreviations" 
> guidelines.
>
> I will create the changeset Thursday evening if nobody replies with an 
> objection.  If you are strongly against this change, please stop me before 
> then!
> The changeset will do the following to post boxes tagged with 
> "operator"="USPS", "operator"="US Post Services", "operator"="US Post 
> Service", "operator"="US Postal Service", "operator"="US Postal Services", 
> "operator"="U.S. Post Services", "operator"=" U.S. Post Service", 
> "operator"="U.S. Postal Service", and "operator"="U.S. Postal Services":
> * Convert the value of "operator" to "United States Postal Service".
> * Add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".
> * Add the tag "operator:wikipedia"="en:United States Postal Service".
> * Fix any warnings or errors that come up in the JOSM validator window (such 
> as incorrect collection times format).
>
> Post offices will not be affected by this change.  If someone would like them 
> to also have uniform operator tags, they can propose that separately.
> Thank you to everyone who commented on this issue!  I highly appreciated the 
> views expressed, and believe that they greatly improved the end outcome of 
> this change.  Again, if you still strongly oppose this change or I am 
> forgetting something important, let me know before Thursday evening!
> Leif Rasmussen
>
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[Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Leif Rasmussen]

Hi everyone,
The opinions expressed on the USPS/United States Postal Service tagging
have been very mixed, with seemingly equivalent numbers of people
supporting both options.  Based on the following facts, I have decided to
convert the tag "operator"="USPS" on post boxes to "operator"="United
States Postal Service".
1) We all agree that all USPS post boxes should have the same operator tag,
but disagree on the minor detail of which tag is better: "USPS" or "United
States Postal Service".
2) I saw, overall, a larger number of good arguments for expanding the
operator tag, including the fact that the words "United States Postal
Service" appear on the post boxes themselves.
3) Expanding USPS would be in line with the OSM "expand abbreviations"
guidelines.

I will create the changeset Thursday evening if nobody replies with an
objection.  If you are strongly against this change, please stop me before
then!
*The changeset will do the following* to post boxes tagged with
"operator"="USPS", "operator"="US Post Services", "operator"="US Post
Service", "operator"="US Postal Service", "operator"="US Postal Services",
"operator"="U.S. Post Services", "operator"=" U.S. Post Service",
"operator"="U.S. Postal Service", and "operator"="U.S. Postal Services":
* *Convert the value of "operator" to "United States Postal Service".  *

** Add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  *
** Add the tag "operator:wikipedia"="en:United States Postal Service".*
** Fix any warnings or errors that come up in the JOSM validator window
(such as incorrect collection times format).  *

*Post offices will not be affected by this change. * If someone would like
them to also have uniform operator tags, they can propose that separately.
Thank you to everyone who commented on this issue!  I highly appreciated
the views expressed, and believe that they greatly improved the end outcome
of this change.  *Again, if you still strongly oppose this change or I am
forgetting something important, let me know before Thursday evening!  *
Leif Rasmussen
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Peter Dobratz]

It would be good to standardize on operator tags for the 4 major carriers
as you mentioned.  The logos for DHL, FedEx, and UPS have those exact
letters in them, so if people map what they see, then they will end up with
those exact values.  However, as mentioned, the USPS logo actually contains
the text United States Postal Service.

I could be convinced to switch my tagging from United States Postal Service
to USPS.  Are there any arguments to support the short form beyond it being
easier to type?



Both "USPS" and "United States Postal Service" are used within the text of
this page:
"The History Behind the USPS Logo"
https://uspsblog.com/the-history-behind-the-usps-logo/

Looking at USPS trademarks
https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_006.htm
and the USPS FAQ
http://faq.usps.com/
you can see that "U.S. Postal Service" is another possible variation on the
same name.

Looking through Taginfo, OSM tag usage reflects the same inconsistencies as
in the USPS FAQ.  The following similar key/vales exist:
operator=USPS
operator=United States Postal Service
operator=US Postal Service
operator=U.S. Postal Service

OSM Tag History can be used to graph total usage of these tags over time:

http://taghistory.raifer.tech/
[image: taghistory_USPS.png]

All 4 lines on the graph are increasing over time with USPS and United
States Postal Service being an order of magnitude higher than the
variations with only the US abbreviated.  The graph doesn't yet reflect
Leif's efforts to standardize tagging (spike in USPS and dip in United
States Postal Service).

Once we come to a consensus, we should document on the OSM wiki pages for
amenity=post_box and amenity=post_office, and also flow to editor presets.

Peter

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:18 PM Bryan Housel  wrote:

> Can we please leave it as USPS?  Other shippers UPS, FedEx, and DHL are
> also abbreviated.
> The “expand abbreviations” rule is really for street addresses, not
> everything in OSM.
>
> Taginfo can show you what values are currently stored in the `operator`
> tag:
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/operator#values
>
> If we were to switch the `operator` field in iD over to a taginfo-based
> autocomplete, 2 things would happen:
> 1. It would show exactly the results in the url above, which contains all
> the operators (not just the postal ones).  It would not be a good list to
> pick from.
> 2. The taginfo service would crash.  We’ve been asked by Jochen not to do
> lookups against tags with a lot of distinct values (like “name” and
> “operator”) because queries like this are resource intensive.
>
> Thanks, Bryan
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
> I would like to do the operator value conversion this weekend, but would
> also like to make sure to listen to all the reasons for not expanding
> USPS.  These include having the tagging style as consistent as possible,
> the long version being harder to type, a list of semicolon separated
> expanded operators being too long, and more.  These are valid concerns,
> which should be addressed before anything else happens.
> First, for keeping the tagging style as consistent as possible, each post
> box will be given the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  This way, even if
> the operator=* tags are changed later on, all post boxes will still be
> consistent and easy to querry.
> Second, for making sure that the operator tag is not too hard to type, I
> think that adding a taginfo based autocomplete to the operator=* field in
> iD could solve this.  I would have to open an issue about that on Github,
> though.
> Third, another fear was that a list of expanded operators separated by
> semicolons would be hard to work with.  I have no easy solution for this.
> Perhaps, iD could have something to organize the operator tags into blocks,
> rather than just text like other fields.
> I would like to convert the tags this weekend, so please let me know if
> you have any suggestions for how to make the conversion less problematic.
> Thank you,
> Leif Rasmussen
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 7:12 PM Jmapb  wrote:

> On 9/6/2018 6:44 PM, Leif Rasmussen wrote:
>
> > First, for keeping the tagging style as consistent as possible, each
> > post box will be given the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  This
> > way, even if the operator=* tags are changed later on, all post boxes
> > will still be consistent and easy to querry.
>
> Earlier I wrote in favor of keeping operator=USPS. Just to add, I don't
> see any problem with adding this operator:wikidata tag, but there's no
> reason to expect anyone else will be adding it to newly mapped mailboxes
> going forward, right? I mean, "United States Postal Service" may be a
> chore to type, but nothing compared to typing "operator:wikidata=Q668687".


 Granted, there could be a bot that scans for and automatically updates
this.  But there could just as easily be a bot that correctly expands
things as well,
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Jmapb]

On 9/6/2018 6:44 PM, Leif Rasmussen wrote:

First, for keeping the tagging style as consistent as possible, each 
post box will be given the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  This 
way, even if the operator=* tags are changed later on, all post boxes 
will still be consistent and easy to querry.


Earlier I wrote in favor of keeping operator=USPS. Just to add, I don't 
see any problem with adding this operator:wikidata tag, but there's no 
reason to expect anyone else will be adding it to newly mapped mailboxes 
going forward, right? I mean, "United States Postal Service" may be a 
chore to type, but nothing compared to typing "operator:wikidata=Q668687".


J

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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Bryan Housel]

Can we please leave it as USPS?  Other shippers UPS, FedEx, and DHL are also 
abbreviated.
The “expand abbreviations” rule is really for street addresses, not everything 
in OSM.

Taginfo can show you what values are currently stored in the `operator` tag:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/operator#values 


If we were to switch the `operator` field in iD over to a taginfo-based 
autocomplete, 2 things would happen:
1. It would show exactly the results in the url above, which contains all the 
operators (not just the postal ones).  It would not be a good list to pick from.
2. The taginfo service would crash.  We’ve been asked by Jochen not to do 
lookups against tags with a lot of distinct values (like “name” and “operator”) 
because queries like this are resource intensive.

Thanks, Bryan




> On Sep 6, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> I would like to do the operator value conversion this weekend, but would also 
> like to make sure to listen to all the reasons for not expanding USPS.  These 
> include having the tagging style as consistent as possible, the long version 
> being harder to type, a list of semicolon separated expanded operators being 
> too long, and more.  These are valid concerns, which should be addressed 
> before anything else happens.  
> First, for keeping the tagging style as consistent as possible, each post box 
> will be given the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  This way, even if the 
> operator=* tags are changed later on, all post boxes will still be consistent 
> and easy to querry.
> Second, for making sure that the operator tag is not too hard to type, I 
> think that adding a taginfo based autocomplete to the operator=* field in iD 
> could solve this.  I would have to open an issue about that on Github, though.
> Third, another fear was that a list of expanded operators separated by 
> semicolons would be hard to work with.  I have no easy solution for this.  
> Perhaps, iD could have something to organize the operator tags into blocks, 
> rather than just text like other fields.
> I would like to convert the tags this weekend, so please let me know if you 
> have any suggestions for how to make the conversion less problematic.
> Thank you, 
> Leif Rasmussen
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Leif Rasmussen]

Hi Peter,
I would like to do the operator value conversion this weekend, but would
also like to make sure to listen to all the reasons for not expanding
USPS.  These include having the tagging style as consistent as possible,
the long version being harder to type, a list of semicolon separated
expanded operators being too long, and more.  These are valid concerns,
which should be addressed before anything else happens.
First, for keeping the tagging style as consistent as possible, each post
box will be given the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687".  This way, even if
the operator=* tags are changed later on, all post boxes will still be
consistent and easy to querry.
Second, for making sure that the operator tag is not too hard to type, I
think that adding a taginfo based autocomplete to the operator=* field in
iD could solve this.  I would have to open an issue about that on Github,
though.
Third, another fear was that a list of expanded operators separated by
semicolons would be hard to work with.  I have no easy solution for this.
Perhaps, iD could have something to organize the operator tags into blocks,
rather than just text like other fields.
I would like to convert the tags this weekend, so please let me know if you
have any suggestions for how to make the conversion less problematic.
Thank you,
Leif Rasmussen
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Peter Dobratz]

Leif,

What's the next step in your process on this?

I prefer the "operator"="United States Postal Service".  Not only does it
match the sticker on the side of many blue mail boxes (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Post_office_drivethrough_lane.jpg
), it follows the general OSM guideline of not putting abbreviations in
names of things (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
).  The https://www.usps.com/ website seems to use both USPS and United
States Postal Service.

Thanks,
Peter

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:02 PM Jack Burke  wrote:

> Because they are labeled "United States Postal Service" with big stickers,
> that's how I've been tagging them.
>
> -jack
>
> --
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology
>
> On August 28, 2018 4:02:40 PM EDT, Jmapb  wrote:
>>
>> On 8/28/2018 3:31 PM, Leif Rasmussen wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> A couple of days ago, I noticed that different post boxes in the United
>> States had different ways of tagging that they were part of the USPS
>> system.  Roughly 60% had "operator"="USPS", 40% "operator"="United States
>> Postal Service", and about 15 similar to "operator"="United States Post
>> Services" or "United States Post Office".  I wanted to make them all the
>> same, so I asked on the OSMUS Slack group about the tags, and most people
>> supported "USPS".  I then proceeded to upload a changeset manually
>> converting 1500 "United States Postal Service" or similar to "USPS".  I
>> should have waited longer before uploading.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62020302
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Boq
>> All post boxes in the USPS system now have "operator"="USPS".
>> After uploading, people expressed concern about the choice of "USPS" over
>> "United States Postal Service".  The wiki states that abbreviations should
>> be expanded, "USPS" could be confused with other agencies
>> , and this
>> counted as an automated edit, which should have had better planning with
>> the OSM community.
>> I would now like to propose converting all post boxes with the tag
>> "operator"="USPS" to "operator"="United States Postal Service".  I would
>> also like to add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687" to the post boxes
>> that currently have "operator"="USPS".  Please reply with any feedback or
>> concerns you have with this proposal.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for looping us in, Leif. Haven't made it to the slack group yet,
>> but when I noticed that change I thought to myself "thank the Lord, it's
>> over!" Every time I've tagged a post box I've managed to convince myself
>> that I did it wrong the previous time. So I rotated between "USPS", "usps"
>> and "United States Postal Service" and figured I'd get around to fixing
>> them when my brain settled down. Seeing someone else take the initiative
>> was a relief, despite the understandable grumbling about automated edits.
>>
>> Now that it's done, I'm in favor of making an exception to the
>> no-abbreviations rule for a fixed set of couriers, so sticking with USPS.
>> It's easy to tag and read, and I don't think it's truly ambiguous... if the
>> United States Power Squadrons start a courier service, *they* should be
>> tagged with the fully expanded name.
>>
>> Another reason is that there are plenty of private company post boxes,
>> and I'd like the tagging style to be consistent as possible, with the
>> commonly-used compact versions of their names. I feel operator=UPS,
>> operator=FedEx, operator=DHL will be easier to write, maintain, and read
>> than operator=United Parcel Service, operator=Federal Express, operator=..
>> well, I still can't figure out what DHL actually stands for.
>>
>> Also -- not an issue for postboxes per se, but I've found occasion to tag
>> some some shops with the shipping companies they offer, and the idea of a
>> semicolon-seperated list of fully expanded shipping company names makes me
>> weary.
>>
>> (No problem with adding the operator:wikidata tag.)
>>
>> Thanks, Jason
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Jack Burke]

Because they are labeled "United States Postal Service" with big stickers, 
that's how I've been tagging them. 

-jack

-- 
Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology

On August 28, 2018 4:02:40 PM EDT, Jmapb  wrote:
>On 8/28/2018 3:31 PM, Leif Rasmussen wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> A couple of days ago, I noticed that different post boxes in the 
>> United States had different ways of tagging that they were part of
>the 
>> USPS system.  Roughly 60% had "operator"="USPS", 40% 
>> "operator"="United States Postal Service", and about 15 similar to 
>> "operator"="United States Post Services" or "United States Post 
>> Office".  I wanted to make them all the same, so I asked on the OSMUS
>
>> Slack group about the tags, and most people supported "USPS".  I then
>
>> proceeded to upload a changeset manually converting 1500 "United 
>> States Postal Service" or similar to "USPS".  I should have waited 
>> longer before uploading.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62020302
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Boq
>> All post boxes in the USPS system now have "operator"="USPS".
>> After uploading, people expressed concern about the choice of "USPS" 
>> over "United States Postal Service".  The wiki states that 
>> abbreviations should be expanded, "USPS" could be confused with other
>
>> agencies 
>> , and 
>> this counted as an automated edit, which should have had better 
>> planning with the OSM community.
>> I would now like to propose converting all post boxes with the tag 
>> "operator"="USPS" to "operator"="United States Postal Service".  I 
>> would also like to add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687" to the 
>> post boxes that currently have "operator"="USPS".  Please reply with 
>> any feedback or concerns you have with this proposal.
>
>Thanks for looping us in, Leif. Haven't made it to the slack group yet,
>
>but when I noticed that change I thought to myself "thank the Lord,
>it's 
>over!" Every time I've tagged a post box I've managed to convince
>myself 
>that I did it wrong the previous time. So I rotated between "USPS", 
>"usps" and "United States Postal Service" and figured I'd get around to
>
>fixing them when my brain settled down. Seeing someone else take the 
>initiative was a relief, despite the understandable grumbling about 
>automated edits.
>
>Now that it's done, I'm in favor of making an exception to the 
>no-abbreviations rule for a fixed set of couriers, so sticking with 
>USPS. It's easy to tag and read, and I don't think it's truly 
>ambiguous... if the United States Power Squadrons start a courier 
>service, *they* should be tagged with the fully expanded name.
>
>Another reason is that there are plenty of private company post boxes, 
>and I'd like the tagging style to be consistent as possible, with the 
>commonly-used compact versions of their names. I feel operator=UPS, 
>operator=FedEx, operator=DHL will be easier to write, maintain, and
>read 
>than operator=United Parcel Service, operator=Federal Express, 
>operator=.. well, I still can't figure out what DHL actually stands
>for.
>
>Also -- not an issue for postboxes per se, but I've found occasion to 
>tag some some shops with the shipping companies they offer, and the
>idea 
>of a semicolon-seperated list of fully expanded shipping company names 
>makes me weary.
>
>(No problem with adding the operator:wikidata tag.)
>
>Thanks, Jason
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Jmapb]

On 8/28/2018 3:31 PM, Leif Rasmussen wrote:

Hi everyone,
A couple of days ago, I noticed that different post boxes in the 
United States had different ways of tagging that they were part of the 
USPS system.  Roughly 60% had "operator"="USPS", 40% 
"operator"="United States Postal Service", and about 15 similar to 
"operator"="United States Post Services" or "United States Post 
Office".  I wanted to make them all the same, so I asked on the OSMUS 
Slack group about the tags, and most people supported "USPS".  I then 
proceeded to upload a changeset manually converting 1500 "United 
States Postal Service" or similar to "USPS".  I should have waited 
longer before uploading.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62020302
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Boq
All post boxes in the USPS system now have "operator"="USPS".
After uploading, people expressed concern about the choice of "USPS" 
over "United States Postal Service".  The wiki states that 
abbreviations should be expanded, "USPS" could be confused with other 
agencies 
, and 
this counted as an automated edit, which should have had better 
planning with the OSM community.
I would now like to propose converting all post boxes with the tag 
"operator"="USPS" to "operator"="United States Postal Service".  I 
would also like to add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687" to the 
post boxes that currently have "operator"="USPS".  Please reply with 
any feedback or concerns you have with this proposal.


Thanks for looping us in, Leif. Haven't made it to the slack group yet, 
but when I noticed that change I thought to myself "thank the Lord, it's 
over!" Every time I've tagged a post box I've managed to convince myself 
that I did it wrong the previous time. So I rotated between "USPS", 
"usps" and "United States Postal Service" and figured I'd get around to 
fixing them when my brain settled down. Seeing someone else take the 
initiative was a relief, despite the understandable grumbling about 
automated edits.


Now that it's done, I'm in favor of making an exception to the 
no-abbreviations rule for a fixed set of couriers, so sticking with 
USPS. It's easy to tag and read, and I don't think it's truly 
ambiguous... if the United States Power Squadrons start a courier 
service, *they* should be tagged with the fully expanded name.


Another reason is that there are plenty of private company post boxes, 
and I'd like the tagging style to be consistent as possible, with the 
commonly-used compact versions of their names. I feel operator=UPS, 
operator=FedEx, operator=DHL will be easier to write, maintain, and read 
than operator=United Parcel Service, operator=Federal Express, 
operator=.. well, I still can't figure out what DHL actually stands for.


Also -- not an issue for postboxes per se, but I've found occasion to 
tag some some shops with the shipping companies they offer, and the idea 
of a semicolon-seperated list of fully expanded shipping company names 
makes me weary.


(No problem with adding the operator:wikidata tag.)

Thanks, Jason



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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Paul Johnson]

I fully support the expanded version, not the abbreviated version.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 14:32 Leif Rasmussen <354...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> A couple of days ago, I noticed that different post boxes in the United
> States had different ways of tagging that they were part of the USPS
> system.  Roughly 60% had "operator"="USPS", 40% "operator"="United States
> Postal Service", and about 15 similar to "operator"="United States Post
> Services" or "United States Post Office".  I wanted to make them all the
> same, so I asked on the OSMUS Slack group about the tags, and most people
> supported "USPS".  I then proceeded to upload a changeset manually
> converting 1500 "United States Postal Service" or similar to "USPS".  I
> should have waited longer before uploading.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62020302
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Boq
> All post boxes in the USPS system now have "operator"="USPS".
> After uploading, people expressed concern about the choice of "USPS" over
> "United States Postal Service".  The wiki states that abbreviations should
> be expanded, "USPS" could be confused with other agencies
> , and this
> counted as an automated edit, which should have had better planning with
> the OSM community.
> I would now like to propose converting all post boxes with the tag
> "operator"="USPS" to "operator"="United States Postal Service".  I would
> also like to add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687" to the post boxes
> that currently have "operator"="USPS".  Please reply with any feedback or
> concerns you have with this proposal.
> Thank you,
> Leif Rasmussen
> OSM username: LeifRasmussen 
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[Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Leif Rasmussen]

Hi everyone,
A couple of days ago, I noticed that different post boxes in the United
States had different ways of tagging that they were part of the USPS
system.  Roughly 60% had "operator"="USPS", 40% "operator"="United States
Postal Service", and about 15 similar to "operator"="United States Post
Services" or "United States Post Office".  I wanted to make them all the
same, so I asked on the OSMUS Slack group about the tags, and most people
supported "USPS".  I then proceeded to upload a changeset manually
converting 1500 "United States Postal Service" or similar to "USPS".  I
should have waited longer before uploading.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62020302
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Boq
All post boxes in the USPS system now have "operator"="USPS".
After uploading, people expressed concern about the choice of "USPS" over
"United States Postal Service".  The wiki states that abbreviations should
be expanded, "USPS" could be confused with other agencies
, and this
counted as an automated edit, which should have had better planning with
the OSM community.
I would now like to propose converting all post boxes with the tag
"operator"="USPS" to "operator"="United States Postal Service".  I would
also like to add the tag "operator:wikidata"="Q668687" to the post boxes
that currently have "operator"="USPS".  Please reply with any feedback or
concerns you have with this proposal.
Thank you,
Leif Rasmussen
OSM username: LeifRasmussen 
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