Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 4:50 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: * Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com [2012-07-19 00:42 -0500]: Any other common problems that people have seen? The most common problem I see is a missing way. But all the nodes are there sitting in space. I've also tried: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=redactionbot To identify missing ways to fix... but so far the tool has nothing but false positives. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 00:42 -0500, Toby Murray wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? This looks like Preston Road in Dallas, TX, is messed up: http://osm.org/go/Tt5Z2UZM-- Possible damage to I-35/Kansas Turnpike in Kansas: http://map.project-osrm.org/Xg As a sidenote OSRM may be a big help to find problems, especially if one can compare with an expected route between two points. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
* Mike N nice...@att.net [2012-07-19 17:01 -0400]: FYI in South Carolina, I'm volunteering to clean up the northwestern part of the state because I have some local knowledge. Cool. I've just finished looking over I-20 and repairing all the roads that were split to make bridges over it. I mostly left them classified highway=residential; I'd prefer to leave road classification to someone more familiar with the area. I plan to start cleaning up I-95 next; it looks like it's got big chunks missing, among other problems. -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- For every meme, there is a Cafe Press shop, where you can buy t-shirts, mugs, and thongs. -- Xeni Jardin --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On 7/19/2012 4:22 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. In many cases, I find it easier to retrieve and plop the TIGER road back in as a replacement and stitch the intersections, rather than connect-the-dots. I figure that someone will run a global orphan node deletion bot some day. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
* Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com [2012-07-19 00:42 -0500]: Any other common problems that people have seen? Probably the most common thing I've seen is what TIGER road splits look like: one way (usually leading up to a bridge), followed by a string of unconnected nodes. Fixing these is pretty easy: click along the unconnected nodes to draw a way connecting them (and recreate the bridge or whatever, of course). Having Bing or other imagery underneath helps you know when to stop or keep going. I've also seen a bunch of motorway_links without oneway tags, so that's definitely something to keep in mind. Are there other important, non-obvious tags that it would be good to specifically be checking for? -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- Science is built up of facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house. -- Jules Henri Poincare --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
Hi, On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: [..] Any other common problems that people have seen? I get the road spaghetti in non-motorway settings too. Example in Salt Lake: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2vwbfnz2ag0sjd/Java%20OpenStreetMap%20Editor_2012-07-19_08-05-05.png They're usually easy to spot, but searching for user:OSMF Redaction Account in JOSM helps too. Phil's broken motorways I've seen too. Other things I've seen quite a bit but may be specific to my local pet disagreers: * Empty areas, or remnants of areas, that used to be landuse or admin boundaries. * Vanished traffic signals. * Vanished metadata on ways (maxspeed, lanes, access, highway type). This is much harder to spot, except where a part of a way has suddenly become residential where the rest is still tertiary. -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
Hi, On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
* Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2012-07-19 14:22 -0600]: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. Eeek! Be very careful with this! The unconnected, untagged nodes were left deliberately to facilitate recreation of roads, particularly the case where a decliner split a TIGER way but did not change its geometry. I've been making use of these nodes in South Carolina to reconstruct the roads there. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
Hi, On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2012-07-19 14:22 -0600]: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. Eeek! Be very careful with this! The unconnected, untagged nodes were left deliberately to facilitate recreation of roads, particularly the case where a decliner split a TIGER way but did not change its geometry. I've been making use of these nodes in South Carolina to reconstruct the roads there. A fair word of caution! One should always be careful when deleting stuff you have not manually selected. I almost never do this. However, I don't see how leaving these nodes facilitates remapping. If you are going to recreate a lost road that is based off of TIGER data, you would likely want to improve the geometry anyway. That said, searching for empty nodes gives you an idea of where ways have been deleted by the redaction. -- martijn van exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On 7/19/2012 1:42 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Now that we're cleaning up after the license bot, what problems are people seeing? The biggest problem I have run into so far is the same 'foldback' problem Kai saw. It's quite confusing when both sides of a dual carriageway are folded back and take the on- and off- ramps with them. Unwinding that is worse than any TIGER fixup. Fortunately it hasn't happened very often. I'm tempted to just do a mass delete and rebuild of such an area instead of sorting it out. FYI in South Carolina, I'm volunteering to clean up the northwestern part of the state because I have some local knowledge. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 7/19/2012 1:42 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Now that we're cleaning up after the license bot, what problems are people seeing? The biggest problem I have run into so far is the same 'foldback' problem Kai saw. It's quite confusing when both sides of a dual carriageway are folded back and take the on- and off- ramps with them. Unwinding that is worse than any TIGER fixup. Fortunately it hasn't happened very often. I'm tempted to just do a mass delete and rebuild of such an area instead of sorting it out. FYI in South Carolina, I'm volunteering to clean up the northwestern part of the state because I have some local knowledge. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us is anyone else noticing some ways have a name, a one way direction, some other info, but no highway tag. so they dont actually render in potlatch 2. the only reason i noticed them way due to the oneway arrows being drawn on top of the satellite image. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 4:32 PM, jeremy jozwik jerjoz.for...@gmail.com wrote: is anyone else noticing some ways have a name, a one way direction, some other info, but no highway tag. so they dont actually render in potlatch 2. the only reason i noticed them way due to the oneway arrows being drawn on top of the satellite image. Yes, I saw something like this last night. I think it was a dual carriageway which was originally split by a decliner and then subsequently edited by an agreeing user so some of the tags stayed but most of the important ones were gone. I'm not sure how to do an effective search for this either. Many ways that aren't roads have a name. I guess a oneway tag without a highway tag is highly suspicious but that will only catch a few of these. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
Phil, Thanks for that info. But, why wasn't it sent out in a general mailing to the members? Lots of people who work assiduously on the maps can't stand the mailing lists (lots of sleep-inducing argument about obscure details of tagging with no final resolution). --C At 01:41 PM 7/19/2012, you wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2012-07-19 14:22 -0600]: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. Eeek! Be very careful with this! The unconnected, untagged nodes were left deliberately to facilitate recreation of roads, particularly the case where a decliner split a TIGER way but did not change its geometry. I've been making use of these nodes in South Carolina to reconstruct the roads there. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
jerjozwik wrote: is anyone else noticing some ways have a name, a one way direction, some other info, but no highway tag. so they dont actually render in potlatch 2. the only reason i noticed them way due to the oneway arrows being drawn on top of the satellite image. Everything's rendered in P2 - there's a special rule in the stylesheet that says if it's not been rendered, draw it as a plain black line. _But_ if you have the full satellite display, you might not be able to distinguish it easily. Use the Dim checkbox in the Background menu - that'll help you see it. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Post-bot-cleanup-tp5717182p5717408.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Post bot cleanup
At 2012-07-19 13:41, Phil! Gold wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2012-07-19 14:22 -0600]: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Any other common problems that people have seen? Another thing I find is a lot of leftover stray nodes without any tags. I select them in JOSM with type:node tags:0 -child and delete them in one fell swoop. Eeek! Be very careful with this! The unconnected, untagged nodes were left deliberately to facilitate recreation of roads, particularly the case where a decliner split a TIGER way but did not change its geometry. I've been making use of these nodes in South Carolina to reconstruct the roads there. That _is_ a nice feature. One thing I would do (in JOSM) when first loading an area to work on is run the validator. This will find those orphan nodes, as well as crossing ways that don't intersect, etc. - indicators of things that need to be fixed. While it might seem easier sometimes to delete and re-draw objects, be careful with objects that have source/source_ref values, as this says that a user has edited/confirmed that object (with the exception of some of the automated import sources), which should be considered the highest form of authenticity. Be careful of intersections with turn restrictions and their connecting roads. These render with little restriction signs on/near the intersection in JOSM and Potlatch. Unfortunately, TIGER11 still has naming inaccuracies. I recently did this neighborhood with some new construction in Yorba Linda, CA: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.8987lon=-117.8017zoom=14layers=M and put note tags on a number of roads that required research that ultimately contradicted TIGER. I think there were a couple more that were wrong that I did not annotate. That would be roughly 1-5% of the roads in the area, and a larger %age of the new roads. I've had a similar experience with new construction at Fort Irwin, CA and Victorville/Hesperia, CA. It seems to be worse for new construction areas, presumably because TIGER eventually gets some feedback to correct it. The issues are often obvious - look for mis-spellings of common words, lack of prefix or suffix (i.e. missing Via, Camino, St, Ave, Blvd), etc. Also look for names that are different from the pattern used in a given area, e.g., Piazza Maria, Piazza Angela, Piazza Gina, George, Piazza Donnatella. George is probably wrong here (missing prefix, non-Italian man's name). I will say that TIGER11 road positioning and connectivity generally seems good now, even enough for GPS guidance. Bing imagery is available down to zoom 19 (~26cm/pel) in virtually any area with a road, and even zoom 21 (~6cm/pel) in the most populous areas (though some of the patches close to downtown LA are jagged, and look better at z19). I've confirmed that alignment accuracy is within about 5m of known benchmarks (personal surveys, FAA VORs, USGS benchmarks, CORS stations, etc.) at many points - enough to satisfy me that the imagery can be used. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
