Re: New Feature Wish
Hallo Mary, On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:10:35 -0500GMT (10-10-2006, 0:10 , where I live), you wrote: MB === MB Warning - the TO address uses a different message template than the one MB that was initially applied. Do you want to discard any changes in the MB editor and apply the new template? YES/NO MB === I definitely wouldn't like to be bothered by this kind of things after editing the new message. Editing fixes the template, altering or adding addressees shouldn't mess with this. The reasoning behind this feature is to make sure that the computer takes care of your not making mistakes, but you're the brains of the pair not the computer. -- Groetjes, Roelof Postscript: The only thing of interest in some letters. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpyDpP2oO7PF.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: New Feature Wish
Hello Roelof! On Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 5:53 AM, you wrote: MB === MB Warning - the TO address uses a different message template than the one MB that was initially applied. Do you want to discard any changes in the MB editor and apply the new template? YES/NO MB === I definitely wouldn't like to be bothered by this kind of things after editing the new message. Editing fixes the template, altering or adding addressees shouldn't mess with this. Roelof, two things: 1) Would you ever even see this Alert box? Since you never make a typo in a header field? 2) Do you 2a) Use manually typed handles to invoke addresses in the To: field? 2b) Have %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE in the AB templates of any contacts for whom you regularly use manually typed-in handles? The reasoning behind this feature is to make sure that the computer takes care of your not making mistakes, but you're the brains of the pair not the computer. And I should be a letter-perfect typist, never make a typing mistake in the To: field, always notice if I do, and be it on my head if my entire bank account is emptied because of this kind of mistake? No, thank you. For myself, I simply abandon manually typed handles for those contacts whose AB templates include %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE. But--it's an academic question now. I get no sympathy for being human and making typos. And neither do other potential TB! user victims of this trap. So, forget it. As far as I am concerned, this thread is closed. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.86.02 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: New Feature Wish
Hallo Mary, On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:21:33 -0500GMT (10-10-2006, 13:21 , where I live), you wrote: MB 1) Would you ever even see this Alert box? Since you never make a typo in MB a header field? Your feature would be triggered when addressing an edited template to an addressee with an AB template. So if I want to use my account template for a contact with an AB template I start editing a message and afterwards set the addressee. Apart from that I never claimed that I don't make typos in header fields, but merely that that I check the recipient after typing. Check my new messages to the tb-lists and you'll see that I make plenty of typos in the subject header, that's why I'm in favour of spell control for the subject. MB 2) Do you MB 2a) Use manually typed handles to invoke addresses in the To: field? Hardly, my tendency to check the address before leaving the To: field causes the autocomplete to be triggered with my most common handles. But when your wish would be implemented I've no illusions whatsoever that the question will be triggered by handles only. TB makes no difference between handles and other addresses. MB 2b) Have %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE in the AB templates of any contacts for whom MB you regularly use manually typed-in handles? I don't %EncryptComplete for any of the contacts in my AB, nor did your wish state that you only wanted the alert triggered for just those cases. I could live with that, though I'd prefer an AB option like 'always encrypt messages to this contact' above an alert about templates. The reasoning behind this feature is to make sure that the computer takes care of your not making mistakes, but you're the brains of the pair not the computer. MB I get no sympathy for being human and making typos. And neither do MB other potential TB! user victims of this trap. You got lots of sympathy and you were offered ways to prevent your problem within TB's current possibilities. But there's no way to make these things absolutely fool proof. Next somebody (not necessarily you) types siss in stead of sis and starts complaining that it got send to a user siss at the same ISP (because that's the way these things work), so the suggestion comes that TB shouldn't send to addresses without a domain. There's always an extra safety wish and somebody who's bothered by it. -- Groetjes, Roelof Nobody notices when things go right, and I'm noticed. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgp1eXDGFaWGq.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: New Feature Wish
10/10/2006 8:46 AM Hi Mary, On 10/10/2006 Mary Bull wrote: MB I get no sympathy for being human and making typos. And neither do MB other potential TB! user victims of this trap. Is it TB's responsibility to remind us when we forget to turn the coffee maker on too? At 64 I am still waiting to meet the person who wears out the lead in their pencil before the eraser. When convenience usurps function it bodes experiences that bless no one. Much better that we learn our limitations and implement management techniques that work for us rather than expecting those around us to subscribe to something that is not pertinent. You are not a victim of anything and TB has not set a trap. For your sake I hope you can accept this. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.85.03 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.1.2600 No IMAP OTFE Opera 8.5 Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
New Feature Wish
Hello Everyone! Here are the steps to replicate the problem that I think will be helped by having my feature wish implemented: 1) In your address book put a nickname for one of your entries. 2) To the New Message properties for that entry include in the template the macro: %SIGNCOMPLETE. 3) Start a new message to this contact by typing the nickname (the handle) 4) But deliberately make a typo. NOTE: the handle has no domain with it; until you tab down, the address called by the handle is not in the To: field; if you make a typo, no address will be called. EXAMPLE: The handle is sis. Type siss in the To: field and tab down. 5) You will see that the default Account template is called, which does not include $SIGNCOMPLETE. And, unless you have previously modified it, the greeting will appear as you tab into the message body: Hello siss, 6) Delete the extra s. 7) Go back to the To: field and delete the extra s there. The address of your contact will then appear as you tab down. 8) Proceed to compose and send the message. Send it. Off it will go, unencrypted. Now, of course, if I had noticed that the address had not been invoked by my handle with the typo in it, I would have corrected it in the To: field before tabbing on into the message body and correcting the greeting. But, for four years this template has worked, and until today, I had never made a typo in the handle. For some reason I had an attention lapse. I cannot guarantee to myself that I will not have another lapse of attention. Therefore, my feature wish is for an Alert Box, which, when I change the handle in the To: field, after typing in the message body because my attention was distracted, will pop up. It might say something like (and a big thank-you to Alexander Kunz for this suggestion): === Warning - the TO address uses a different message template than the one that was initially applied. Do you want to discard any changes in the editor and apply the new template? YES/NO === Now, I do not plan to use handles with contacts for whom I have the macro %SIGNCOMPLETE in the New Message template--not any more. My safety will lie in bringing up a previous message, highlighting the address of that contact, and choosing Write a message to this address. However, this truly is a trap--albeit an esoteric one. The alert box might prevent some newbie (or not-so-newbie) TB! user from sending unencrypted sensitive material to his/her banker or accountant, when he/she intended to send it encrypted. All comments to this idea for a feature wish are welcome. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.86.02 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: New Feature Wish
Howdy Mary, Monday, October 9, 2006, 11:10:35 PM, Mary wrotened: MB Therefore, my feature wish is for an Alert Box, which, when I change MB the handle in the To: field, after typing in the message body because MB my attention was distracted, will pop up. MB It might say something like (and a big thank-you to Alexander Kunz for MB this suggestion): MB === MB Warning - the TO address uses a different message template than the one MB that was initially applied. Do you want to discard any changes in the MB editor and apply the new template? YES/NO MB === I've been watching this topic in this thread and the other for a while. And to be honest I am not sure on which side of the fence I sit. However if it is a problem, then we are missing a large part of the argument. I know Mary's point of view is focusing on the security aspect (which I believe to be a slightly erroneous aspect of the argument as I don't believe any security will be able to prevent anyone determined enough from reading your mail, but then I have not really looked into or read up about the security aspect and this is not on the topic we are here to discuss), however the point about template being applied after editing the message body is interesting. Personally having several accounts with slightly different templates for each one I have noticed this problem previously. If I have one account currently selected, and viewing from the mail ticker select a message, that has been sent to another account, TB will invoke the template that responds to the account selected in the main TB window. Now as far as I can see this is a similar situation to Mary's, where TB invokes the wrong template, or rather a template that we didn't want. I haven't really thought of whether this behaviour is feature or bug. I'm just used to it. Just my (largely irrelevant) 2p. -- Have Fun, Ben Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] crashing The Bat! v3.86.02 falling out of mid air with Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 The dyslexic theorist suffering insomnia is still up all night pondering if there is a Dog. Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: New Feature Wish
Hello Ben! On Monday, October 09, 2006, 5:54 PM, you wrote: Personally having several accounts with slightly different templates for each one I have noticed this problem previously. If I have one account currently selected, and viewing from the mail ticker select a message, that has been sent to another account, TB will invoke the template that responds to the account selected in the main TB window. Yes, I have struggled with this behavior, also. I found that the only thing I could effectively do was delete the message, move to the account whose From template I wished to appear in the new message headers, and start over. Now, one can do that in this situation. However, I had an attention lapse last week and sent a message to my nephew while I was in my account with the dutaint domain. Of course, he hit Reply and replied to me in that domain, and of course it was filtered to that collapsed account's Inbox. Took me a minute or so to realize where the message from my nephew that I saw on the server was hiding. So, I have attention lapses more often than I used to. And it would be nice if TB! could be coded some way that I could Customise it to protect myself. If not, I shall just go on living with it. But I shall certainly not invoke the address of new messages by typing in manually the handle any more, for my contacts in whose Properties I have %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE in the New Message template. Now as far as I can see this is a similar situation to Mary's, where TB invokes the wrong template, or rather a template that we didn't want. I haven't really thought of whether this behaviour is feature or bug. I'm just used to it. I'm used to it to. And I think it is the same sort of coding which produces it, as produced my really bad experience today. Just my (largely irrelevant) 2p. I think your 2p is right on the money, Ben. And now I'm used to this ignoring of my PGP template. The Bat! does it in two instances: 1) If I save a message as Draft, with the %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE macro in the contact's Properties, it goes into the Outbox--the only folder where you cannot modify Folder Properties. 1a) When I open that saved message in an editor to work on it a little further, the Privacy settings are changed. If--and actually I never save as draft any more, for messages I encrypt, because of this--I forget to pull down the Privacy menu and check the Encrypt when complete box, out it will go, unencrypted, when I press the Send button. 2) The second instance in which The Bat! disregards my PGP template settings for a contact is the subject of this thread. Thanks a mil for joining the discussion, Ben. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.86.02 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: New Feature Wish
Howdy Mary, Tuesday, October 10, 2006, 12:21:12 AM, Mary wrotened: Personally having several accounts with slightly different templates for each one I have noticed this problem previously. If I have one account currently selected, and viewing from the mail ticker select a message, that has been sent to another account, TB will invoke the template that responds to the account selected in the main TB window. MB Yes, I have struggled with this behavior, also. MB I found that the only thing I could effectively do was delete the MB message, move to the account whose From template I wished to appear MB in the new message headers, and start over. There is another work around for this. Before you edit the message body go to optionsactive account and select the account whose default template you wish to use, and TB will change the message body to that template. However if you do it after you have edited the message body the template stays as initially selected, even though it will send through the other account. MB So, I have attention lapses more often than I used to. And it would be MB nice if TB! could be coded some way that I could Customise it to MB protect myself. MB If not, I shall just go on living with it. I agree, that it would be handy to have a warning message so that I could change the template that is being used, but I feel it should be turned off by default. Though having said that I normally hate warning messages, and I would most likely turn it off or ignore it. As I said before theres for and against then theres me on the fence. MB But I shall certainly not invoke the address of new messages by typing MB in manually the handle any more, for my contacts in whose Properties MB I have %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE in the New Message template. I don't use either of those features anyway, so I am not in a position to comment. Now as far as I can see this is a similar situation to Mary's, where TB invokes the wrong template, or rather a template that we didn't want. I haven't really thought of whether this behaviour is feature or bug. I'm just used to it. MB I'm used to it to. MB And I think it is the same sort of coding which produces it, as MB produced my really bad experience today. I think that user friendliness is a valid thing for programmers to go for, without sacrificing the functionality. If adding something makes the program easier to use then I am for it, having said that though we don't want TB to become so bloated with additional things that don't add real substance. So to sum up. I don't know whether I am in favour or against. Plus I am babbling. Just my (largely irrelevant) 2p. MB I think your 2p is right on the money, Ben. MB And now I'm used to this ignoring of my PGP template. Again not using security I can't give an informed opinion about this. MB Thanks a mil for joining the discussion, Ben. Always a pleasure M'Queen Trill. -- Have Fun, Ben Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] crashing The Bat! v3.86.02 falling out of mid air with Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Im not only weird. Im gifted too. Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
SOT exchabge of civilities between Ben A. and Mary B. [was Re: New Feature Wish]
Hello Ben! On Monday, October 09, 2006, 6:46 PM, you wrote: MB Thanks a mil for joining the discussion, Ben. Always a pleasure M'Queen Trill. Your humble servant, Alpha Ben. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.86.02 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.86.02 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
