Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hi Jonathan Angliss - On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, at 22:42:05 [GMT -0500] (which was 8:42 PM where I live) you wrote: So what am I seeing. I'm seeing bad handling of multiple connections. It appears that, despite having dedicated 4 connections to TB, it seems to not queue the requests correctly. I've attached a screen shot of my connection center. That is how it has been for the last 10 minutes (another issue is I cannot delete the SetFlag request which I've no idea what it is doing, but that's another post). Notice the multiple items in the queue. It'd appear that TB hands out items to be queued to each connection, and then each connection processes its own queue. This can lead to issues like I have in my situation now where I have several items queued on one connection, and the other 3 connections sitting idle. I have the exact same problem here. I'm looking at the connection center as I write this and there are 6 hung processes (using IMAP BTW). I have TB configured to 10 connections and only 2 are being used. -- Best Regards, Kevin PGP Keys: idap://keyserver.pgp.com idap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370 Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 pgpGQ6pqQTyjQ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
On Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 3:22:29 PM [GMT -0500], Kevin Amazon wrote: I have the exact same problem here. I'm looking at the connection center as I write this and there are 6 hung processes (using IMAP BTW). I have TB configured to 10 connections and only 2 are being used. yeah. Only 2 are ever being used. The interesting thing is that once the queued tasks for a particular folder hangs, you're still able to go on your merry way working with the other folders. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Positive: Mistaken at the top of one's voice. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hi -=Curtis=- - On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, at 16:24:17 [GMT -0500] (which was 2:24 PM where I live) you wrote: On Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 3:22:29 PM [GMT -0500], Kevin Amazon wrote: yeah. Only 2 are ever being used. The interesting thing is that once the queued tasks for a particular folder hangs, you're still able to go on your merry way working with the other folders. Exactly. I have now 3 tasks that are obviously hung (having been executing for over 3 hours). It is pretty obvious to me that IMAP is still not quite ready for prime time. sigh -- Best Regards, Kevin PGP Keys: idap://keyserver.pgp.com idap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370 Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 pgp4pO7ILAlvD.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
On Wednesday, August 03, 2005 at 4:28:06 PM [GMT -0500], Kevin Amazon wrote: Exactly. I have now 3 tasks that are obviously hung (having been executing for over 3 hours). It is pretty obvious to me that IMAP is still not quite ready for prime time. sigh I can now actually say that the problem is more a pesky one than a showstopper. I recall the days when hung queues meant everything was hung and you couldn't do anything else from there until you fixed the queue. This often meant a restart. Additionally, queues would just hand at a whim, while doing just about anything. Now, queues tend to hang when doing a lot of deleting and moving of messages, *especially* when you start doing so soon after startup and when TB! is busy updating counts and headers for other folders. So there's a gradual improvement though we're not there yet. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- The worst day fishing is better than the best day working. Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
On 8/4/05, Kevin Amazon wrote: Exactly. I have now 3 tasks that are obviously hung (having been executing for over 3 hours). It is pretty obvious to me that IMAP is still not quite ready for prime time. sigh Pardon me for jumping into this thread without studying the entire discussion, but is everyone sure that this is a problem of IMAP and not something more fundamental in TB, for example, the Connection Centre? I am getting the same sort of problem - hung connections - with POP3. Sometimes I just abort everything, close TB, and restart it. Then the connections succeed without any problem. As I experience 3.51.10, it is heavy and slow - as opposed to other more friendly versions that were light and fast. With 3.51.10, I am even getting slow and ineffective searches in Non-OTFE, something that never happened before. Personally, I find the performance of 3.5.36 to be more stable and more efficient. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.51.10 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
On Wednesday, August 3, 2005, 4:28:06 PM, Kevin Amazon wrote: Exactly. I have now 3 tasks that are obviously hung (having been executing for over 3 hours). It is pretty obvious to me that IMAP is still not quite ready for prime time. sigh A few weeks ago, when I was doing POP, not IMAP, I used to have similar freezes on POP accounts, but they jammed things up. If I'm having any of these with IMAP, they aren't. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.51.10 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Jonathan, I agree with everything you've said. I've often thought about putting more focus on this issue myself. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.51.10 Pro /thebat version env. ~12 POP3, 4 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hello Jonathan, JA You need a single queue manager/thread. That queue manager polls on a JA regular basis for items that are added to its queue. If it finds an JA item in its queue, it then checks the active connections and searches JA through them until it finds an idle connection, at which point it JA hands the task to that connection. Now a little smart logic needs to JA be included too, for example, to beat having to open and close a JA folder multiple times (which can be quite intensive for IMAP servers, JA and large folders), if the queue manager finds a connection that JA already has a folder open that the next task needs, the queue manager JA hands the task over to that connection (even if it is currently JA working on an item). This /might/ produce events occurring a little JA out of sync to what the user requested, but should ultimately increase JA the IMAP experience. It is the way it currently works. As I can see in your screenshot, first request was blocked, which caused 'updating counters for plugins', 'search in plugins', 'message content from plugins' to stay indefinitely, because they are delayed for the same connection. So... There are 2 problems: 1. Why message list request hanged? 2. Why TB! thinks that \Admin folder is not selectable from other connection - it could be caused with another broken request which had selected the folder Could you give any hints when it happens? If it happens in the same conditions? -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
9Val, On 01-08-2005 13:54, you [9] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 9 So... There are 2 problems: 9 1. Why message list request hanged? 9 2. Why TB! thinks that \Admin folder is not selectable from other 9 connection - it could be caused with another broken request which had 9 selected the folder 9 Could you give any hints when it happens? If it happens in the same 9 conditions? This is the general hanging connections problem that many have been talking about (I think). I also get this at least once a day on some accounts. I have not been able to figure what triggers this. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.51.10 Pro /thebat version env. ~12 POP3, 4 IMAP (MailMax 5.5) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hello 9Val, Monday (August 1, 2005, 4:54 AM) you wrote: Could you give any hints when it happens? If it happens in the same conditions? I am glad you are working on this. I would imagine this problem is related to the following, all of which only happen occasionally: 1. Compress and reindex of IMAP shows damaged mailboxes. 2. Folder pain shows new messages even though the message list shows no new messages (fix is to navigate to another folder and back, which then shows a new message) 3. Deleting a message does not delete the message. 4. Deleting a message and navigating to another message shows the wrong message in the message viewer. BTW, I am back to TB! after trying out many other IMAP clients. I think IMAP is the way of the future because I can check it from work, home, and the road. TB! is doing much much better on IMAP lately and it is the fastest client by far. I think you still have some IMAP bugs (big ones, as mentioned above) and you are missing some IMAP features (de-duplicate, folder permissions), but you are certainly heading in the right direction. May I ask that all programmers of TB! work exclusively (except for specific tests) on IMAP for six months with a requirement of changing IMAP servers every month? This would give you a good users perspective, which would substantially help the program, in my view. Further, your client is so strong on the POP side, I do not think those users would be harmed in any way. -- Best regards, John Thomas Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hello John, JT May I ask that all programmers of TB! work exclusively (except for JT specific tests) on IMAP for six months with a requirement of changing JT IMAP servers every month? This would give you a good users JT perspective, which would substantially help the program, in my view. JT Further, your client is so strong on the POP side, I do not think JT those users would be harmed in any way. :-) POP doesn't take programmers time at all. But... As I wrote, time istakenby Unicode support, memory leaks fixing, HTML forward/reply,search capabilities and surely IMAP. So... I don't think they'll support your wish. -- 9Val Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
Hi 9Val, On Monday, August 01, 2005, you wrote: JA You need a single queue manager/thread. That queue manager polls JA on a regular basis for items that are added to its queue. If it JA finds an item in its queue, it then checks the active connections JA and searches through them until it finds an idle connection, at JA which point it hands the task to that connection. Now a little JA smart logic needs to be included too, for example, to beat having JA to open and close a folder multiple times (which can be quite JA intensive for IMAP servers, and large folders), if the queue JA manager finds a connection that already has a folder open that JA the next task needs, the queue manager hands the task over to JA that connection (even if it is currently working on an item). JA This /might/ produce events occurring a little out of sync to JA what the user requested, but should ultimately increase the IMAP JA experience. It is the way it currently works. As I can see in your screenshot, first request was blocked, which caused 'updating counters for plugins', 'search in plugins', 'message content from plugins' to stay indefinitely, because they are delayed for the same connection. So... There are 2 problems: 1. Why message list request hanged? 2. Why TB! thinks that \Admin folder is not selectable from other connection - it could be caused with another broken request which had selected the folder I don't think that's an accurate assumption. I believe I can select the folder and open other emails in it which have not previously been fetched (I'll have to double check), but it's not limited to the folders in the screen shot. After reopening the bat, nearly 20 folders were listed in there after it hung on a different folder at the same step (SetFlags). Even Could you give any hints when it happens? If it happens in the same conditions? Not really. Seems random, different folders, different times, different levels of patients when it happens. Maybe to help diagnose this, you should put the connection number in the connection center, even when it's not connected, or running that task? Right now, it's hung on SetFlags on my INBOX, which, for obvious reasons, is selectable, however there are now 6 or 7 tasks queued up on various different folders waiting to go. -- Jonathan Angliss [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpDxg4rG9izq.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
On Monday, August 01, 2005 at 8:15:49 AM [GMT -0500], John Thomas wrote: I am glad you are working on this. I would imagine this problem is related to the following, all of which only happen occasionally: 1. Compress and reindex of IMAP shows damaged mailboxes. 2. Folder pain shows new messages even though the message list shows no new messages (fix is to navigate to another folder and back, which then shows a new message) 3. Deleting a message does not delete the message. 4. Deleting a message and navigating to another message shows the wrong message in the message viewer. Except for 2 which is very frequent, I tend to have the others when the queued commands for a folder is stuck as Jonathan mentioned. Usually, when messages will not delete or message bodies will not load, I check for a queue hang. Usually that folders queue is hung and I have to disconnect/connect to cure the problem. For some reason, my Inbox is most prone to the problem. Probably because it's the folder from which I delete or move all the messages while reading them. I sat and went through 800 unread messages in a folder without a single hitch while going through 26 messages in the Inbox was full of hitches and problems as I either moved or deleted messages when finished reading them. I hope this will be a hint for 9Val in that the problem tends to occur in association with deleting/moving messages. BTW, I am back to TB! after trying out many other IMAP clients. I think IMAP is the way of the future because I can check it from work, home, and the road. I strongly agree here. TB! is doing much much better on IMAP lately and it is the fastest client by far. I think Mulberry is faster, but simply because it's more efficient. It retrieves less information from the server for you to work with your mail. However, if Mulberry and TB! were to retrieve the same information, TB! would be the winner. I think you still have some IMAP bugs (big ones, as mentioned above) and you are missing some IMAP features (de-duplicate, folder permissions), but you are certainly heading in the right direction. De-duping folders works for me here. Folder quota and size information in the properties is also needed. We don't have unlimited server space and part of IMAP is being able to see how much space each folder occupies etc. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.51.10 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Graduate Of The Uncle Fester Keith Moon School of hair styling Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP - Multiple Connections, and bad behaviour
JT May I ask that all programmers of TB! work exclusively (except for JT specific tests) on IMAP for six months with a requirement of changing JT IMAP servers every month? This would give you a good users JT perspective, which would substantially help the program, in my view. JT Further, your client is so strong on the POP side, I do not think JT those users would be harmed in any way. :-) POP doesn't take programmers time at all. But... As I wrote, time istakenby Unicode support, memory leaks fixing, HTML forward/reply,search capabilities and surely IMAP. So... I don't think they'll support your wish. Those fixes sound great and I am not sure why they would preclude you from operating in an IMAP environment, in fact, operating on an IMAP environment might actually help. As you can probably tell, I am back to Thurderbird because, in my view, it can be better used in a production (non-test) IMAP environment. -- Sincerely, John Thomas Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
