Re: OT: Computer Philosophy

[Paula Ford]

tracer, you are way too literal. :)

All the problems were solved one way or another. They were just examples
of what the "inept" users deal with.

Thanks for your offer of help, though.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re[2]: OT: Computer Philosophy (was: Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?)

[tracer]

Monday, November 01, 1999

Hello Paula,

Monday, Monday, November 01, 1999, you wrote:

>> On Saturday, October 30, 1999, 3:51:35 PM (GMT+0800), Steve Lamb wrote:

SL>>> Computers are *NOT* complicated.  Women, now that is a complicated piece
SL>>> of equipment!

Paula> Oh, puhleeze. Women are not equipment and I'd much rather deal with a
Paula> woman with a problem, who only wants me to listen and sympathsize, than
Paula> a computer with a problem, which wants to waste my time trying to
Paula> interpret its pouting silence or irritatingly cryptic outbursts. Rather
Paula> like men.

I prefer woman computer users as they tend to produce me less
problems...
Or if I tell them call me if something like that or that happens, they
DO, not some silly attempts trying to fix things making it ten times
as bad.
Its almost always the men here who mess up their systems...

Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.36 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[2]: OT: Computer Philosophy

[tracer]

Monday, November 01, 1999

Hello Paula,

Monday, Monday, November 01, 1999, you wrote:

Paula> On Sunday, October 31, 1999, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

MDP>>> Very  true!  Computers  are  not  the  source of frustration. It is an
MDP>>> individual's own ineptitude that provides it.

>> You are both right, but still I am human and I get frustrated when the
>> programme does something else than I want it to do. See my other mail.

Paula> A user upgrades to Windows 98, carefully following all the instructions.
I have installed windows thousands of times , probably about any
version there is or has been, but doing it ac to the instructions has
only given me a headache sofar..

MS may say you can upgrade, I have never seen a 98 run stable after
doing it.
The BEST way to install 98 is a clean install.
Or at least with a clean registry as its in many cases the correct but
unwanted confusion causing registry settings which produce an unstable
system. At present there are in some newsletters some other kind of
problems caused by the various kinds of ie5 people install.
It totally messes your system up even if things seem to run its just a
matter of time before you get odd crashes.
SAME with 98v2, update from normal 98 doesnt produce a real stable
system and if you tried  an IE5, ofice 2000 or something else with
THEIR version of IE5, then you are really better of with a format.
I did...

Anyway, have a look 
here..http://www.winmag.com/win98/newsletter/1999/1013.htm#possfixes
Paula> All seems to go well. But he finds later, when rushed to get a report
Paula> done that he brought home from the office, that his word processor keeps
Paula> crashing with a very helpful error message about modules and registers
Paula> and stack dumps that may or may not actually point to the source of the
Paula> problem.

doesnt matter if they do or not as it will not help him to get it
fixed.
In a case like that you remove the offending program, use an other wp or
do the work on another machine. Ie get the urgent job out of the way
first.

Paula>  His report is late and he spends the next week trying to figure
Paula> out what the problem is. He checks the Web sites of the software
Paula> companies and finds nothing that specifically addresses his problem, but
Paula> tries a few things that don't help. He downloads 4000+ posts from a
Paula> users news group. After a couple of hours of sifting through the posts,
Paula> he finds other users with the same problem, who have discovered on their
Paula> own that the Windows 98 upgrade replaced some system dll with a version
Paula> dating from the early days of WIN95.
98 overwrites ANY files existing with its own  later ones if they
exist. You donot get the question do you want to overwrite or not.
If  program misbehaves after an upgrade, reinstall the program and
hope it helps.
VERY unlikely 98 sticks an old dll in the system from the beginning of
95.

Paula> A user installs a small software program to help keep track of things to
Paula> do that was recommended in a review she read, following all the
Paula> instructions carefully and even using an uninstaller program.
I read reviews but I never install something just because some
journalist thinks its any good. For me thats about the worst
recommendation I can get unless its a journalist I KNOW using the
stuff and knowing what he writes about... Dvorak is a good example..
Paula> Everything
Paula> seems fine and she likes the program, but then her e-mail program
Paula> suddenly develops problems. She e-mails support for the e-mail software
Paula> company, who can only suggest reinstalling it. She does, first
Paula> reinstalling over the existing installation, then uninstalling with her
Paula> uninstaller and trying to clean out every trace of the program. It
Paula> doesn't help. Then, being a bit more savvy than many users, she recalls
Paula> that the problem started after she installed the other program. She
Paula> e-mails support for that company. The developer replies, as it's a 2-man
Paula> shop, and is very nice, but says he hasn't had any problems like this
Paula> reported and he's not familiar with her e-mail program. She uninstalls
Paula> the program, but her e-mail program still has problems. She re-installs
Paula> the e-mail program to no avail. Finally, as a last resort, she spends a
Paula> weekend wiping her hard drive and reinstalling all her software. The
Paula> e-mail program works. Was it the little software program? Who knows?
probably windows...
Anyway, installing/uninstalling programs is about the best way to get
a corrupted system.
I have a similar problem on my own system, Very likely an interaction
between The BAT and AVP. I kicked AVP out, problem is still there.
when it irritates me enough, it will be a clean install...

Paula> An office spends over $4,000 for a new laser network printer, which is
Paula> installed by experienced systems staff. They run a couple test prints;
Paula> all seems well. But, the staff then discov

Re: OT: Computer Philosophy (was: Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?)

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

On Sunday, October 31, 1999, 1:09:38 PM (-5 GMT), Paula scribbled:

SL>>> Computers are *NOT* complicated.  Women, now that is a
SL>>> complicated piece of equipment!

> Oh, puhleeze. Women are not equipment and I'd much rather deal with a
> woman with a problem, who only wants me to listen and sympathsize, than
> a computer with a problem, which wants to waste my time trying to
> interpret its pouting silence or irritatingly cryptic outbursts. Rather
> like men.

Ouch!!

Let the games begin!!! :)))

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. <<<
*---*
  Running The Bat! v1.36 in Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5)
*---*

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Re: OT: Computer Philosophy

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

On Sunday, October 31, 1999, 12:55:31 PM (-5 GMT), Paula scribbled:

MDP>>> Very  true!  Computers  are  not  the  source of frustration.
MDP>>> It is an individual's own ineptitude that provides it.

>> You are both right, but still I am human and I get frustrated when the
>> programme does something else than I want it to do. See my other mail.

> A user upgrades to Windows 98, carefully following all the instructions.

[beautiful examples of how computers can frustrate even though the
user is making more than a reasonable effort snipped]

> All these examples are from real life. Want more? I could fill a volume.
> How are any of these problems the result of the ineptitude of the users?

Definitely not. I find the implication of the statement most offensive
and clueless in it's own way.

> When you have to spend nearly as much time understanding the obscure
> elements of how a tool works, diddling with it, fixing unexpected
> errors, etc., as you do trying to use it for what you want and need
> to use it for, then in my book that tool is frustrating. And, when
> the quality standard of an industry is 'well, it works OK for most
> people', then in my book that industry is still in the primitive
> stages of developing.

> As for RTFM - as someone who always RTFM, or more often the online help,
> which is the only written help one gets with most software these days, I
> can only say that if the people who wrote these things knew the first
> thing about clear writing, or if software companies would invest in
> hiring people whose business it is to write good manuals or help files,
> then users might be more inclined to read them.

I agree that generally this is so. A lot give you 'Yoda type'
guidelines where you are given hint type info and then you figure it
out when you fiddle. I find it fun as a hobbyist but I can understand
the frustrations of someone who needs to learn quickly, through
effective and clear help files, what to do so they can get on with it.
My latest acquired software is a nice little file manager called
'enriva voyager' (explorer isn't enough for me, yet I don't need Bash
:)). The documentation is really the pits. You learn by
experimentation and the website doesn't help either. I had to write to
the developers about the file synchronization utility after giving up
trying to figure it out.

> Yes, there are the users whose first response when they encounter
> anything they don't know how to do or fix is to call support (or
> yell across the office), and obviously when you are doing support,
> this is going to be your picture of users. But, if this were most
> users, there wouldn't be enough phone lines in the world to handle
> the flood of calls.

Amen to that

> And, I can match every story that a support person can tell about
> the clueless user with one about the clueless support person. But,
> users don't bother circulating these stories around the internet to
> the condescending chuckles of those who revel in their in-the-know
> status. Computing is not the center of their lives. Should it be?

I couldn't agree more. Why can't I. I agree more. :)

> My apologies to those on the list who could care less for this long
> message.

I found it most refreshing actually. Great post. It's off topic but at
least you have one appreciative reader. :)

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> I'm fascinated by the way memory diffuses fact. <<<
*---*
  Running The Bat! v1.36 in Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5)
*---*

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Re: OT: Computer Philosophy (was: Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?)

[Paula Ford]

> On Saturday, October 30, 1999, 3:51:35 PM (GMT+0800), Steve Lamb wrote:

SL>> Computers are *NOT* complicated.  Women, now that is a complicated piece
SL>> of equipment!

Oh, puhleeze. Women are not equipment and I'd much rather deal with a
woman with a problem, who only wants me to listen and sympathsize, than
a computer with a problem, which wants to waste my time trying to
interpret its pouting silence or irritatingly cryptic outbursts. Rather
like men.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re: OT: Computer Philosophy

[Paula Ford]

On Sunday, October 31, 1999, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

MDP>> Very  true!  Computers  are  not  the  source of frustration. It is an
MDP>> individual's own ineptitude that provides it.

> You are both right, but still I am human and I get frustrated when the
> programme does something else than I want it to do. See my other mail.

A user upgrades to Windows 98, carefully following all the instructions.
All seems to go well. But he finds later, when rushed to get a report
done that he brought home from the office, that his word processor keeps
crashing with a very helpful error message about modules and registers
and stack dumps that may or may not actually point to the source of the
problem. His report is late and he spends the next week trying to figure
out what the problem is. He checks the Web sites of the software
companies and finds nothing that specifically addresses his problem, but
tries a few things that don't help. He downloads 4000+ posts from a
users news group. After a couple of hours of sifting through the posts,
he finds other users with the same problem, who have discovered on their
own that the Windows 98 upgrade replaced some system dll with a version
dating from the early days of WIN95.

A user installs a small software program to help keep track of things to
do that was recommended in a review she read, following all the
instructions carefully and even using an uninstaller program. Everything
seems fine and she likes the program, but then her e-mail program
suddenly develops problems. She e-mails support for the e-mail software
company, who can only suggest reinstalling it. She does, first
reinstalling over the existing installation, then uninstalling with her
uninstaller and trying to clean out every trace of the program. It
doesn't help. Then, being a bit more savvy than many users, she recalls
that the problem started after she installed the other program. She
e-mails support for that company. The developer replies, as it's a 2-man
shop, and is very nice, but says he hasn't had any problems like this
reported and he's not familiar with her e-mail program. She uninstalls
the program, but her e-mail program still has problems. She re-installs
the e-mail program to no avail. Finally, as a last resort, she spends a
weekend wiping her hard drive and reinstalling all her software. The
e-mail program works. Was it the little software program? Who knows?

An office spends over $4,000 for a new laser network printer, which is
installed by experienced systems staff. They run a couple test prints;
all seems well. But, the staff then discover all sorts of printing
anomalies when printing simple word processing documents. The printer
company and the software company point fingers at each other. The only
solution found is to use old printer drivers, which make unavailable the
nice, new features that were among the reasons that the office bought
the expensive printer in the first place.

A user is installing some software upgrade from a major software company
that deals with DUN connections. She is confronted with an installation
screen that asks which chipset her modem uses. Chipset? She pulls out
the documentation that came with her computer. In this case, she
actually happens to have a 'manual' that indentifies the modem in the
computer. The 'manual' is a 4-page brochure. It includes a list of the
modem specifications, filled with esoteric data, but nowhere does it say
what chipset the modem uses. She visits the modem manufacturer's Web
site. Nada. Top secret information apparently. Finally, she has to call
the manufacturer at long-distance charges, wait on hold for 20 minutes
on her dime, then talk to a support person who says he'll have to check
and get back to her. He never calls back. She calls again a couple weeks
later, goes through the same routine, but this time happens to get
someone who knows. He tells her politely, but is probably rolling his
eyes and thinking "another idiot user".

All these examples are from real life. Want more? I could fill a volume.
How are any of these problems the result of the ineptitude of the users?

When you have to spend nearly as much time understanding the obscure
elements of how a tool works, diddling with it, fixing unexpected
errors, etc., as you do trying to use it for what you want and need to
use it for, then in my book that tool is frustrating. And, when the
quality standard of an industry is 'well, it works OK for most people',
then in my book that industry is still in the primitive stages of
developing.

As for RTFM - as someone who always RTFM, or more often the online help,
which is the only written help one gets with most software these days, I
can only say that if the people who wrote these things knew the first
thing about clear writing, or if software companies would invest in
hiring people whose business it is to write good manuals or help files,
then users might be more inclined to read them. Yes, there are the users
whose first response