Re: View Folder Window and status line

[Paula Ford]

On Sunday, November 21, 1999, Ali Martin wrote:

> It would be nice if the View Folder window had a little status line...

Not to disagree with your suggestion, but how large is your monitor? I
have a 17". I have TB main window set up with the folder list down the
left-hand side in a fairly narrow column, wide enough to show folder
names, number of new messages in the folder, and the total number. If I
open the Folder View, I can move the window to open to the side of the
folder list in the main window. Then, I can see the messages information
for the folder. The messages unread also updates as messages are read.

BTW, what do you find to be the advantages of working from the folder
view? I've never seen much point for it, but then I'm fond of 3-pane
mailers.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Help File (Was: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else)

[Paula Ford]

On Sunday, November 21, 1999, tracer wrote:

> Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)

I volunteer to beta test the new Help file for v.2. Where do I sign up?

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re[2]: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Thomas,

on Monday, November 22, 1999, 2:54:45 PM GMT+0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

TF> Most of the time, however, I do not even get an error message. By
TF> mistake, I forgot to reset the SMTP seerver after these tests before
TF> sending this post, and my email just disappeared. (I am resending this
TF> post now after adding this paragrph.)

Correction: I got the error message - just a bit later than expected.

-- 

Best regards,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Dear Syafril,

I just checked and was told we use MS Exchange version 5.5

Just tried to send a message to one of my accounts via our SMTP
server, and the below is what happened.

When I use my address book and the address I send to is "mozart
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" (without quotation marks), the error
message will say that mozart is not recognized, i.e. seeing only the
"Real Name" not even the email address.

I feel that the Exchange server means "not recognized in this domain"
in both cases, and never tries to send it into cyberspace.

Most of the time, however, I do not even get an error message. By
mistake, I forgot to reset the SMTP seerver after these tests before
sending this post, and my email just disappeared. (I am resending this
post now after adding this paragrph.)

So I can send messages only to users within the domain "aafi.com.tw"
with The Bat!. Colleagues using Outlook have no problems sending to
the outside world.

Something wrong in my TB settings, as you said you have tested it
successfully?

Thanks help,

Thomas.   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

===8<==This is a forwarded message=
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, November 22, 1999, 2:18:56 PM
Subject: Undeliverable: Fwd: Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

Your message

  To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Fwd: Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
  Sent:Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:23:07 +0800

did not reach the following recipient(s):

[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:25:36 +0800
The recipient name is not recognized
The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=TW;a=
;p=AAFI;l=NT19911220625XDRRSLY5
MSEXCH:IMS:AAFI:AAFI:NT1 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient


===8<===End of original message text===



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Re: The TBUDL

[Ali Martin]

   tracer wrote:

>>>   delete-thread key?  What key is that?

Ali>> ++
> when I saw this I thought you meant ctrl+alt+delete...
> Sure it doesnt delete all your mail??

No. It will just delete the entire thread in which the presently
highlighted message resides. If you are viewing a message list by
thread right click any message in the message list, go to the 'thread'
item and you'll see 'delete thread' with it's shortcut displayed.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Racial prejudice is a pigment of the imagination. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: The TBUDL

[Ali Martin]

   tracer wrote:


> Anyway, I find you set filters with special options and then go and
> clean them up in the menu.
> I always determine the order of filters myself so anything like this
> should be at the far end of your filters to avoid hitting innocent
> bystanders...

Speaking of order, this may very well have to do with why his filter
isn't working. Messages from this particular individual are probably
being filtered by another filter higher up in the filters list. If the
delete filter goes after this, it will not work.

So, if I wish to delete messages for someone on this list, the filter
that I create has to be listed before the filter for TBUDL mail for it
to work.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Shareware: forget the manual...phone the author at home! <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re[3]: The TBUDL

[Fred Huddle]

Hi tracer,

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 8:09:55 PM, you wrote:
t> If the persons name is in 2 parts (ie has a space in it) for some odd
t> but no doubt logical reason (and yes I know the programming reason )
t> filtering on the thing doesnt work.

Ooooh.  Good suggestion.  I didn't think of that...Thanx.

t> Secondly if you want to thrash  a mailer you filter him to inbox (ie
t> where it is) and then it gets deleted.
t> I think it was somewhere in the help file but absolutely not in a
t> helpful way...

Help file has lots of info in it, but sometimes not easily found, nor
easily understood especially for new users of the [excellent] program.

t> Anyway, I find you set filters with special options and then go and
t> clean them up in the menu.
t> I always determine the order of filters myself so anything like this
t> should be at the far end of your filters to avoid hitting innocent
t> bystanders...
t> Ie I remove the regular correspondents to their boxes and then I start
t> on the rubbish.
t> Consider using his email address as filter only as if the name is in 2
t> parts I never managed to filter on it, either a bug or buggy docs or
t> both

Muchly thanks for the tips.  I'll try them.

-- 
Regards,
 Fred   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: (No Subject)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Alexander V. Kiselev,

On Monday, November 22, 1999, 4:12:02 (GMT +07:00) you told us:

AVK>>> *many*  people  on  this list *do not* understand your American
AVK>>> slang

SL>> Funny, I'm not using slang in the least bit.

AVK> Funny,  then  how  comes  that  I  hardly  understand  *you* when
AVK> *clearly*  understanding  Paula  Ford  and (most of the time) Ali
AVK> Martin? Of cause, my English is quite limited

[ ... ]

AVK> I  know  absolutely  *no*  American  slang,  but  basing  on  the
AVK> above-stated  thoughts  I came to the strong conclusion that it's
AVK> slang  that  I'm  finding  myself  hard  to  understand  in  your
AVK> postings. If I'm wrong here, my apologies directly to you.

I  second  that.  If  I dream in the night, I still speak in my mother
language (Indonesia).


-- 
- syafril -


Name: Syafril Hermansyah | Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto  : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
URL : www.dutaint.co.id  | FAX : (62) (21) 351-9241  



I am using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 (reg) under
Windows NT Workstation 4.0 built 1381, Service Pack 6

Created : Monday, November 22, 1999, 12:09:13 (GMT + 07:00)

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Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Thomas Fernandez,

On Monday, November 22, 1999, 9:24:02 (GMT +07:00) you told us:

H>> One  thing  I  would  like  to see is the ability to use Microsoft
H>> Exchange, so I can take The Bat to work and trash Outlook.

TF> We use MS Exchange at work, and I am using The Bat! here as well.

TF> One  problem:  I  cannot  use  our  SMTP server but have to use an
TF> external  one.  When  I  use our SMTP server, messages get sent to
TF> addresses  within  our domain (within the company), but not to the
TF> outside world. I don't know why.

What's  version  your  Exchange ? Last month I made test with Exchange
5.5  SP1  and  have  no  problem  with  The Bat!. Have you ask your SA
(System Administrator) about the error ?


-- 
- syafril -


Name: Syafril Hermansyah | Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto  : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
URL : www.dutaint.co.id  | FAX : (62) (21) 351-9241  



I am using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 (reg) under
Windows NT Workstation 4.0 built 1381, Service Pack 6

Created : Monday, November 22, 1999, 11:19:17 (GMT + 07:00)

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Re: The TBUDL

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Paula Ford,

On Monday, November 22, 1999, 1:10:23 (GMT +07:00) you told us:

Nice word Paula !
I am supporting you most of your words !

[ ... ]

PF> As  Marck  noted,  many  new subscribers are unsubscribing shortly
PF> after  joining.  Maybe this has nothing to do with what's going on
PF> on the list, but I doubt it.

Need  help  of  "Alexander  V.  Kiselev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> to more
study about the correlation after compiling the data :-).

PF> (2)  take some of these discussions about developmental philosophy
PF> to the Beta list, where they might be more appropriate,

Ah yes, more philosophy doctor there :-).

-- 
- syafril -


Name: Syafril Hermansyah | Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto  : [EMAIL PROTECTED]  | Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
URL : www.dutaint.co.id  | FAX : (62) (21) 351-9241  



I am using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 (reg) under
Windows NT Workstation 4.0 built 1381, Service Pack 6

Created : Monday, November 22, 1999, 11:27:47 (GMT + 07:00)

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Re[2]: The TBUDL

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Ali,

Monday, Monday, November 22, 1999, you wrote:

Ali>Watcher wrote:

>>   delete-thread key?  What key is that?

Ali> ++
when I saw this I thought you meant ctrl+alt+delete...
Sure it doesnt delete all your mail??




Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[2]: The TBUDL

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Fred,

Monday, Monday, November 22, 1999, you wrote:

Fred> Hi Paula,

Fred> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 10:10:23 AM, you wrote:
PF>> Of the 23 messages I've received so far this morning for this list, only
PF>> 4 of them are related to the primary purposes of this list. It seems to
PF>> me that there has been a marked decline in recent weeks in the number of
PF>> list messages from people requesting information about using TB.


Fred> Some of us "lurkers" are just waiting for "other" and "advanced"
Fred> activity/conversation to die down a bit before we interject our
Fred> novice/basic questions.

Fred> For example:  I can't seem to make my filters work, and I suspect I'm
Fred> not doing them correctly.  I find the Help in TB! to be less than
Fred> clear in some instances.  Filters are one instance.

Fred> Here's what I did (what I clicked on):
Fred>   Account
Fred>   Sorting Office/Filters
Fred>   Incoming Mail  (maybe I should have clicked on "Kill filters"???)
Fred>   New
Fred>   New Rule
Fred> Rule tab:
Fred>   Name:  gave it a name
Fred>   Source folder:  Inbox
Fred>   Move messages to folder:  Trash
Fred>   Filtering strings:
Fred> Strings:  a person's name
Fred> Location:  Sender
Fred> Present:  Yes
Fred> Rule is:  Active
Fred> Alternatives tab:  nothing
Fred> Actions tab:
Fred>   Delete the message:  checked
Fred>   Delete the message from the Server:  checked
Fred> Options tab:
Fred>   Continue processing with other filters:  checked
Fred>   Send generated messages:  Queue in Outbox

Fred> But I still get messages from "a person's name" in my inbox.
Fred> What did I do wrong or forget to do?
Fred> Thanks,


If the persons name is in 2 parts (ie has a space in it) for some odd
but no doubt logical reason (and yes I know the programming reason )
filtering on the thing doesnt work.
Secondly if you want to thrash  a mailer you filter him to inbox (ie
where it is) and then it gets deleted.
I think it was somewhere in the help file but absolutely not in a
helpful way...
Anyway, I find you set filters with special options and then go and
clean them up in the menu.
I always determine the order of filters myself so anything like this
should be at the far end of your filters to avoid hitting innocent
bystanders...
Ie I remove the regular correspondents to their boxes and then I start
on the rubbish.
Consider using his email address as filter only as if the name is in 2
parts I never managed to filter on it, either a bug or buggy docs or
both

Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[3]: (No Subject)

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Pasquale,

Monday, Monday, November 22, 1999, you wrote:

Pasquale> Hello Alexander,

Pasquale> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 4:12:02 PM, you wrote:

AVK>> Hi there!

AVK>> On 21 Nov 99, at 9:53, Steve Lamb wrote
AVK>> about "Re: (No Subject)":


>>> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:36:55 AM, Alexander wrote:
>>> > *many* people on this list *do not* understand your American
>>> > slang
>>> 
>>> Funny, I'm not using slang in the least bit.

AVK>> Funny, then how comes that I hardly understand *you* when 
AVK>> *clearly* understanding Paula Ford and (most of the time) Ali 
AVK>> Martin? Of cause, my English is quite limited (besides, I 
AVK>> presume *your* Russian is even worse then that, am I right?:-
AVK>> )), but it *needn't* be better then it is. I have *no need* in better 
AVK>> English at all: almost all non-Russian-speaking mathematicians 
AVK>> I'm communicating with routinely speak English even worse 
AVK>> then I do; morethanthat, we usually clearly understand each 
AVK>> other. 

AVK>> Besides, my level of understanding English (based on my own 
AVK>> experience on the good number of English-speaking mailing 
AVK>> lists) shows, that you're probably the only *native* English-
AVK>> speaker whose English is (sometimes) hard for me to 
AVK>> understand. (Oh, pardon, there's one Australian on Pegasus 
AVK>> mailing list too, but that's a completely other story: he just hates 
AVK>> to use commas and periods:-) Kind of I know all the words he 
AVK>> uses, but it's extremely hard to gain the meaning:-)))

AVK>> I know absolutely *no* American slang, but basing on the 
AVK>> above-stated thoughts I came to the strong conclusion that it's 
AVK>> slang that I'm finding myself hard to understand in your 
AVK>> postings. If I'm wrong here, my apologies directly to you. 


AVK>> SY, Alex
AVK>> (St.Petersburg, Russia)

Pasquale> What slangs do you not understand?, send e-mail to me privately and
Pasquale> I'll help on the slangs I know. Now I'll will dust off my OLD high
Pasquale> school russian / english dictionary.
I saw on the net that there seems to be a decent translator around
(Alex probably disagrees with the decent part)  but that might help
you as well. I havent seen it but it was mentioned somewhere.
ref slang:
I think there is some USA slang dictionary around.
But again Alex, not sure that would be of any use.
Some people write difficult english, others donot and I am sure its
the same in any Language.


Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[2]: The TBUDL

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Andreas,

Monday, Monday, November 22, 1999, you wrote:

Andreas> Hello Paula,  Hamburg/GER, Monday, November 22, 1999

Andreas> in your mail dated Sunday, November 21, 1999, 19:10,
Andreas> you whispered something about "The TBUDL".

>>[original mail deleted]

Andreas> Thanks a lot, I support your mail wholehearted! During the last times I've
Andreas> read the TBUDL more and more with the "delete thread"-key. :-(

what key is that? never had a need to use it  bit it could be handy..




Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re: Wish List

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Hal,

Monday, Monday, November 22, 1999, you wrote:

Hal> One thing I would like to see is the ability to use Microsoft Exchange, so I can
Hal> take The Bat to work and trash Outlook.
Thay might be a good selling argument as well as there way too many
virus strains targetting the ms software.


Hal> Regards,
Hal>  Halmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hal> If I throw a stick will you leave?




Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[2]: [OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[tracer]

Monday, November 22, 1999

Hello Paula,

Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote:

Paula> I thought Marck declared a Dead Horse here.
Maybe a different horse???
We can start a farm...




Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re: View Folder Window and status line

[Mark Worsham]

Hi Ali -

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 8:44:39 PM, you wrote:

AM> Hi all,
 
AM>  It would be nice if the View Folder window had a little status line
AM>  which indicates the amount of messages in the folder being displayed,
AM>  as well as the number of new messages (which dynamically updates as
AM>  you read the new messages). This would make the window really
AM>  self-contained with all the info one needs. :)
  
Ala Agent?  I requested this when I first purchased TB!, and the guys said it
was a possibilty, so we'll see.

-- 
Mark Worshammailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plano, TX  USA



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View Folder Window and status line

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,
 
 It would be nice if the View Folder window had a little status line
 which indicates the amount of messages in the folder being displayed,
 as well as the number of new messages (which dynamically updates as
 you read the new messages). This would make the window really
 self-contained with all the info one needs. :)
  
-- 
 -=Ali=-

  >>> Minds are like parachutes, they only work when open. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
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Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

[Hal]

Hello Thomas,

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 9:24:02 PM, you wrote:

TF> Hi Hal,

TF> on Monday, November 22, 1999, 8:19:47 AM GMT+0800, Hal wrote:

H>> One thing I would like to see is the ability to use Microsoft Exchange, so I can
H>> take The Bat to work and trash Outlook.

TF> We use MS Exchange at work, and I am using The Bat! here as well.

TF> One problem: I cannot use our SMTP server but have to use an external
TF> one. When I use our SMTP server, messages get sent to addresses within
TF> our domain (within the company), but not to the outside world. I don't
TF> know why.

I'll give it a try and see if it works- thanks!


Regards,
 Halmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

...And which dwarf are you?

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Re: The TBUDL

[Hal]

Hello Fred,

Don't use the automatic reply address:  Fred Huddle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Use: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Regards,
 Halmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

...I pretend to work and they pretend to pay me!

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Re: The TBUDL

[Ali Martin]

   Fred Huddle wrote:

 
> For example:  I can't seem to make my filters work, and I suspect I'm
> not doing them correctly.  I find the Help in TB! to be less than
> clear in some instances.  Filters are one instance.

> Here's what I did (what I clicked on):
>   Account
>   Sorting Office/Filters
>   Incoming Mail  (maybe I should have clicked on "Kill filters"???)
>   New
>   New Rule
> Rule tab:
>   Name:  gave it a name
>   Source folder:  Inbox
>   Move messages to folder:  Trash
>   Filtering strings:
> Strings:  a person's name
> Location:  Sender
> Present:  Yes
> Rule is:  Active
> Alternatives tab:  nothing
> Actions tab:
>   Delete the message:  checked

You should stop here and leave everything else as is.

>   Delete the message from the Server:  checked

Either you are deleting the message from the server or you're
downloading the message, sending it to the trash and deleting it. I
wouldn't try to do both and that's probably where the problem lies.
Undo one of them and see what happens.

> Options tab:
>   Continue processing with other filters:  checked

You don't need to have this option checked either.

>   Send generated messages:  Queue in Outbox

Of course, look very carefully for any possible typo's.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> -- is the key to success <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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MS Exchange (was:Wish List)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Hal,

on Monday, November 22, 1999, 8:19:47 AM GMT+0800, Hal wrote:

H> One thing I would like to see is the ability to use Microsoft Exchange, so I can
H> take The Bat to work and trash Outlook.

We use MS Exchange at work, and I am using The Bat! here as well.

One problem: I cannot use our SMTP server but have to use an external
one. When I use our SMTP server, messages get sent to addresses within
our domain (within the company), but not to the outside world. I don't
know why.

-- 

Best regards,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: The TBUDL

[Mark Worsham]

Hi Paula -

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 12:10:23 PM, you wrote:

PF> My understanding from the list guidelines is that, first of all, the
PF> purpose of the list is to discuss _The Bat!_ with a primary focus on
PF> providing user-to-user support and a secondary focus on discussing
PF> suggestions for new features and improvements. The latter, for as long
PF> as I've been on the list, has always generated some lively debate, but
PF> without the acrimony and personal aspects that characterize most of the
PF> recent debates - not to mention, the verbosity. Secondly, off-topic
PF> posts are to be limited, that is, it's not OK to discuss anything and
PF> everything as long as you put an OT in the subject. It's not always easy
PF> to draw a line between what is OT and not, but now folks are introducing
PF> topics that aren't even remotely related to the list purposes. It's
PF> tempting to turn a mailing list into a social club, but in my experience
PF> it ends up undermining the primary purposes of a list like this one in
PF> the long run.

Yep, the last few weeks have seen the noise ratio go wy up.  I don't know
about you, but I'm deleting large amounts of messages simply because they aren't
related to TB!

-- 
Mark Worshammailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plano, TX  USA

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Re: The TBUDL

[Mark Worsham]

Hi Watcher -

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:37:59 PM, you wrote:

W>   delete-thread key?  What key is that?

ctrl-shift-del

-- 
Mark Worshammailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plano, TX  USA



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Re: The TBUDL

[Ali Martin]

   Watcher wrote:

>   delete-thread key?  What key is that?

++

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> In politics, stupidity is not a handicap. - Napoleon Bonaparte  <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: The TBUDL

[Fred Huddle]

Hi Paula,

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 10:10:23 AM, you wrote:
PF> Of the 23 messages I've received so far this morning for this list, only
PF> 4 of them are related to the primary purposes of this list. It seems to
PF> me that there has been a marked decline in recent weeks in the number of
PF> list messages from people requesting information about using TB.


Some of us "lurkers" are just waiting for "other" and "advanced"
activity/conversation to die down a bit before we interject our
novice/basic questions.

For example:  I can't seem to make my filters work, and I suspect I'm
not doing them correctly.  I find the Help in TB! to be less than
clear in some instances.  Filters are one instance.

Here's what I did (what I clicked on):
  Account
  Sorting Office/Filters
  Incoming Mail  (maybe I should have clicked on "Kill filters"???)
  New
  New Rule
Rule tab:
  Name:  gave it a name
  Source folder:  Inbox
  Move messages to folder:  Trash
  Filtering strings:
Strings:  a person's name
Location:  Sender
Present:  Yes
Rule is:  Active
Alternatives tab:  nothing
Actions tab:
  Delete the message:  checked
  Delete the message from the Server:  checked
Options tab:
  Continue processing with other filters:  checked
  Send generated messages:  Queue in Outbox

But I still get messages from "a person's name" in my inbox.
What did I do wrong or forget to do?
Thanks,

-- 
Regards,
 Fredmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...

[tracer]

Sunday, November 21, 1999

Hello Alexander,

Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote:

Alexander> Hi there!

Alexander> On 21 Nov 99, at 14:34, tracer wrote
Alexander> about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah":

>> >> Alexander> Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar 
>> >> Alexander> bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people 
>> >> Alexander> 
>> >> Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat
>> 
>> Alexander> Americans, whom else?:-)))

>> How do your bears know the difference

Alexander> But these are *Russian* bears:-)). They know! Those 
Alexander> Americans are really funny, they (provided that they know 
Alexander> *what and where* Russia is anyway) still seem to believe it's 
Alexander> common for the wild bears to walk down the streets in Russia:-) 
Alexander> At least I've already seen 3 such guys (all of them Americans) 
Alexander> who were *really* deadly surprised not to find those bears in 
Alexander> the streets. and a friend of mine now working in the 
Alexander> Silicon valley met 2 other Americans, who seemed to believe 
Alexander> that Russia is located somewhere next to Venezuela:-))
whats wrong with that?
They tested students in the past on their chemistry knowledge  and
according to some Sodium Chloride was a green gas

But you are missing out on a tourist attraction, train some bears  and
get the tourists to visit them. Obviously wanting repeat visits you
cannot let those bears eat them (at least not all of them)
By the way a friend has an internet cafee and yesterday his internet
browser looked 'odd' he said.
Some smart visitor had switched him to the Russian character set...
They must have been trying to fix it for hours so when I visited  for
a refreshing beer it meant serious (g) work...

Alexander> SY, Alex
Alexander> (St.Petersburg, Russia)



Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Hip Hip

[Hal]

Hello Paula,

A voice of sanity at last.

Regards,  Hal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

...I work 40 hours a week to be this poor!

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Wish List

[Hal]

One thing I would like to see is the ability to use Microsoft Exchange, so I can
take The Bat to work and trash Outlook.


Regards,
 Halmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

...If I throw a stick will you leave?

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Re[2]: The TBUDL

[Watcher]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  delete-thread key?  What key is that?

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:50:01 PM, Andreas wrote:
> Hello Paula,  Hamburg/GER, Monday, November 22,
> 1999  

> in your mail dated Sunday, November 21, 1999, 19:10,
> you whispered something about "The TBUDL".

>>[original mail deleted]

> Thanks a lot, I support your mail wholehearted! During the last
> times I've read the TBUDL more and more with the "delete
> thread"-key. :-(  


- -- 
Watcher aka Bill DeVos |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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- -
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Re: The TBUDL

[Andreas Rumpenhorst]

Hello Paula,  Hamburg/GER, Monday, November 22, 1999

in your mail dated Sunday, November 21, 1999, 19:10,
you whispered something about "The TBUDL".

>[original mail deleted]

Thanks a lot, I support your mail wholehearted! During the last times I've
read the TBUDL more and more with the "delete thread"-key. :-(

-- 
Best regards,
 Andreas  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
with an AMD K6-III 400, 128MB SDRAM

PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_key

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Re[5]: %Cursor

[Watcher]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Saturday, November 20, 1999, 12:22:02 PM, Marck wrote:
> On 20 November 1999 at 07:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] told the list:

t>> Saturday, November 20, 1999

Watcher>>>   I  would still like to find a keystroke that is
convenient
Watcher>>> (Ctrl-anything  is  less  than  convenient)  to  simply
walk
Watcher>>> through  all of my messages letting my emailer find the
next
Watcher>>> message even changing folders if all messages in the
current
Watcher>>> folder are read. This is a functionality that I have
assumed
Watcher>>> to be in all mail programs that are also being used for
news
Watcher>>> or  list  reading,  in  pine for example it is space, in
elm
Watcher>>> it's  space,  in  Becky  it is space, in tin it is space,
in
Watcher>>> Netscape it is space...

> In TB! it is space. For me. In the way I use it.

t>> Whats wrong with the arow down or up key? ok it doesnt goto the
t>> next folder but that shouldnt be a difficult thing to add, ie
t>> trying to exceed the folders last or first email goto the earlier
t>> or later folder. Suggest it!

> I  have  new mail shown on the ticker and the ticker enabled. I
> double click  on  the  ticker  and  up pops a folder view window
> split with a message list at the top and a preview pane beneath.  

> I  usually  have  to  press  the  home  key once to focus on the
> first message.  I  have  threading by reference enabled and sort by
> Creation date / time.  

> Then,  I  simply  press  the  space  bar  to page through my new
> mail. Regardless  of  which  folder  it  resides in. Viewing from
> the ticker takes care of grouping all new mail for me.  

> What's wrong with that?

  Nothing, sounds perfect for you but I don't use the ticker.  It
simply gets in the way when I'm working on something else.

- -- 
Watcher aka Bill DeVos |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.aack.net/  | http://www.aack.net/watcher
- -
The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and
stupidity.
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Re: (No Subject)

[jwd]

Ali Martin wrote:
> 
SNIP
> . . ."The surgery went OK, and he/she should do fine", as being
> adequate information at the time. They expect a more in depth
> explanation of the findings and the implications etc. They expect it
> then and there. See what I'm getting at? I have to do that, explaining
> the same things, day in and day out.
> 
SNIP

Ali,

In considering this thread, there is a real difference between trying to
explain to a patient and their relatives why a surgery should happen and
how it went, and handling many of the repetitive questions that arrive
at support lines.  People do not arrive with user's manuals and
documentation.  Hardware and software ought to, and for sure ISPs need a
phone line that can help when someone simply can't log in.  The problem
is that much documentation is so opaquely written that a "user" can't
make head or tail of it.  Often the issue will be addressed but the
doucmentation and help is so poorly cross indexed that even a
knowledgeable user may wind up asking for help on what should be a
beginner-level problem.  Technical help is often in the unenviable
position of having to make up for the inadequacies of both the user and
the individual who composed the documentation.  The rudeness should not
happen, but is understandable.

JWDougherty

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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[Watcher]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 8:00:11 AM, Steve wrote:
> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 4:07:05 AM, Ali wrote:



> Personally, I think politeness at the expense of accuracy of
> thought and communication is a detriment.  It throws up illusions
> that everything is hunky-dory when, in fact, it is not.  When the
> party in the grips of the illusion realizes that, it is far, FAR
> worse than just coming out, up front, and stating the case instead
> of pussy-footing around.  

> Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it
> to change.  

  I'd like to agree... and disagree with you. I absolutely hate
"political correctness" which is just a fancy way of saying "lying to
make the other person feel good" and I don't do it despite the fact
that that decision has made my road rougher at times BUT that is
still
no excuse for me to NOT consider the feelings of the person I am
communicating with.
  Considering your position and your apparent success in that
position
you have the ability to relate the facts to the other person without
being offensive or condescending. I think all that "we" are asking is
that you use that talent with us as well as you do with your
customers.

- -- 
Watcher aka Bill DeVos |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.aack.net/  | http://www.aack.net/watcher
- -
Do you dream in colors or do you discriminate ?
- -

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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[Watcher]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Saturday, November 20, 1999, 7:18:59 AM, Ali wrote:
> Hi all,
>   Steve Lamb wrote:

>> Friday, November 19, 1999, 11:10:13 PM, tracer wrote:
>>> But the people who are in need of that filter probably donot know
>>> how to make one. Maybe steve can post one (g)  

  Hey, I had no problem creating one!  8^)

>> Filter / Incoming mail / New

>> Name: RM: Steve Lamb (RM means ReMove)
>> Source Folder: Inbox
>> Filtering String #1:
>> String: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Location: kludges Present:
>> yes Actions tab Check Delete the message box  

  HaaHaaHaa!  Well done Steve!


> You know Steve, despite our differences on certain issues and our
> heated debates, on and off list that often disintegrate into
> behavioral issues and personal attacks , I've
> never thought of constructing one of the above on you. Strange
> perhaps, but true. Through all that static of your abrasive style,
> you do get through to me and I listen.:)  

> Your are clearly well informed and have informed opinions that I've
> certainly benefited from and used to hone my own final opinions on
> certain issues.

  Ok, you've convinced me to deactivate that filter for a while, I'll
try again.  8^)

> Unfortunately I'm just one person that has gotten used to you and
> just as how you promote rules of netiquette, your tone and abrasive
> style does come into issue and is pretty much written about in the
> rules of netiquette but in a more subtle, general fashion since
> being abrasive and unfriendly comes in all sizes shapes and forms
> so they cannot be specific as saying for example that you shouldn't
> quote excessively in messages or send HTML mail to discussion
> lists.  

> See: 

  Thank you very much!  This is a rule that I know *I* need to be
reminded to read on a regular basis.

- -- 
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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[Pasquale J. Festa Sr.]

Hello Alexander,

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 4:12:02 PM, you wrote:

AVK> Hi there!

AVK> On 21 Nov 99, at 9:53, Steve Lamb wrote
AVK> about "Re: (No Subject)":


>> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:36:55 AM, Alexander wrote:
>> > *many* people on this list *do not* understand your American
>> > slang
>> 
>> Funny, I'm not using slang in the least bit.

AVK> Funny, then how comes that I hardly understand *you* when 
AVK> *clearly* understanding Paula Ford and (most of the time) Ali 
AVK> Martin? Of cause, my English is quite limited (besides, I 
AVK> presume *your* Russian is even worse then that, am I right?:-
AVK> )), but it *needn't* be better then it is. I have *no need* in better 
AVK> English at all: almost all non-Russian-speaking mathematicians 
AVK> I'm communicating with routinely speak English even worse 
AVK> then I do; morethanthat, we usually clearly understand each 
AVK> other. 

AVK> Besides, my level of understanding English (based on my own 
AVK> experience on the good number of English-speaking mailing 
AVK> lists) shows, that you're probably the only *native* English-
AVK> speaker whose English is (sometimes) hard for me to 
AVK> understand. (Oh, pardon, there's one Australian on Pegasus 
AVK> mailing list too, but that's a completely other story: he just hates 
AVK> to use commas and periods:-) Kind of I know all the words he 
AVK> uses, but it's extremely hard to gain the meaning:-)))

AVK> I know absolutely *no* American slang, but basing on the 
AVK> above-stated thoughts I came to the strong conclusion that it's 
AVK> slang that I'm finding myself hard to understand in your 
AVK> postings. If I'm wrong here, my apologies directly to you. 


AVK> SY, Alex
AVK> (St.Petersburg, Russia)

What slangs do you not understand?, send e-mail to me privately and
I'll help on the slangs I know. Now I'll will dust off my OLD high
school russian / english dictionary.

-- 
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 Pasqualemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: (No Subject)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Nov 99, at 9:53, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: (No Subject)":


> Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:36:55 AM, Alexander wrote:
> > *many* people on this list *do not* understand your American
> > slang
> 
> Funny, I'm not using slang in the least bit.

Funny, then how comes that I hardly understand *you* when 
*clearly* understanding Paula Ford and (most of the time) Ali 
Martin? Of cause, my English is quite limited (besides, I 
presume *your* Russian is even worse then that, am I right?:-
)), but it *needn't* be better then it is. I have *no need* in better 
English at all: almost all non-Russian-speaking mathematicians 
I'm communicating with routinely speak English even worse 
then I do; morethanthat, we usually clearly understand each 
other. 

Besides, my level of understanding English (based on my own 
experience on the good number of English-speaking mailing 
lists) shows, that you're probably the only *native* English-
speaker whose English is (sometimes) hard for me to 
understand. (Oh, pardon, there's one Australian on Pegasus 
mailing list too, but that's a completely other story: he just hates 
to use commas and periods:-) Kind of I know all the words he 
uses, but it's extremely hard to gain the meaning:-)))

I know absolutely *no* American slang, but basing on the 
above-stated thoughts I came to the strong conclusion that it's 
slang that I'm finding myself hard to understand in your 
postings. If I'm wrong here, my apologies directly to you. 


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  Things get worse under pressure.
(forth principle of thermodynamics)

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Re: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Nov 99, at 13:25, Pasquale J. Festa Sr. wrote
about "Re[2]: Clicking on a sender w/ alt ":

> >> Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)
> 
> AVK> AFAIK, the new and better help file will be one of the most 
> AVK> characteristic features of long-expected version 2:-)) 
> 
> I sure hope so!, as a newbie with this program, the help file is
> almost as useless as star offices 5.1.
> 
> I noticed that less time is spent on the help files of most newnew
> programs, and some are requiring that you go to their web sites.

Well, as far as I understand (please do not take this as an 
official statement of RIT labs, I'm not affiliated to them at all; the 
only thing is that since I'm Russian I've got better chances of 
communicating with them on "their own ground", that's all), they 
decided not to focus on rewriting the help file for 1.xx series 
since the upcoming 2.x will be in many aspects of it's GUI quite 
different from the current version, therefore they are quite likely 
to focus on writing a better online help for 2.x.

Note however that the *official* (i.e. non-beta) 2.x apparently 
won't be released in the nearest future, so this very list will 
probably remain the best (and almost only:-)) source of 
additional info about the program for the new users of it.

Hence I fully support the opinion of Paula Ford expressed in 
her most recent posting: let's concentrate on helping people 
rather then on personal attacks on them. 


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  If a series of events can go wrong, it will do so in the worst
  possible sequence.

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Re[2]: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[Pasquale J. Festa Sr.]

Hello Alexander,

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 12:32:39 PM, you wrote:

AVK> Hi there!

AVK> On 21 Nov 99, at 21:25, tracer wrote
AVK> about "Re[2]: Clicking on a sender w/ alt ":

>> Jack> Amazingly, that works! I too replied to Douglas before my last fetch
>> Jack> so I didn't know you had replied also. Where did you find that? and
>> Jack> why doesn't TB! illustrate that instead of the CTRL= ?
>> 
>> Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)

AVK> AFAIK, the new and better help file will be one of the most 
AVK> characteristic features of long-expected version 2:-)) 


AVK> SY, Alex
AVK> (St.Petersburg, Russia)

I sure hope so!, as a newbie with this program, the help file is
almost as useless as star offices 5.1.

I noticed that less time is spent on the help files of most newnew
programs, and some are requiring that you go to their web sites.

 PJFSr.
>> Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)
> 
> AFAIK, the new and better help file will be one of the most 
> characteristic features of long-expected version 2:-)) 


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 Pasqualemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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The TBUDL

[Paula Ford]

Hello All,

Of the 23 messages I've received so far this morning for this list, only
4 of them are related to the primary purposes of this list. It seems to
me that there has been a marked decline in recent weeks in the number of
list messages from people requesting information about using TB. I know
I used to receive alot more messages every day and almost all them were
actually about TB. Is there some relationship here or are there simply
fewer people trying out TB, fewer people on the list or joining the
list? I don't know, but I've seen alot of mailing lists and discussion
groups take this turn - they become cliquey, one or two strong
personalities discourage, usually unintentionally, others from posting,
etc. - the whole familiar electronic group dynamic.

My understanding from the list guidelines is that, first of all, the
purpose of the list is to discuss _The Bat!_ with a primary focus on
providing user-to-user support and a secondary focus on discussing
suggestions for new features and improvements. The latter, for as long
as I've been on the list, has always generated some lively debate, but
without the acrimony and personal aspects that characterize most of the
recent debates - not to mention, the verbosity. Secondly, off-topic
posts are to be limited, that is, it's not OK to discuss anything and
everything as long as you put an OT in the subject. It's not always easy
to draw a line between what is OT and not, but now folks are introducing
topics that aren't even remotely related to the list purposes. It's
tempting to turn a mailing list into a social club, but in my experience
it ends up undermining the primary purposes of a list like this one in
the long run.

This list is very loosely moderated; therefore, it is very much up to
the long-term subscribers to set the tone for the list. Most of us want
TB to succeed. I think that success depends in no small measure on this
list, at least as long as the documentation continues to be so outdated
and inadequate. It's nearly impossible to tap the potential of the
program, or even learn how to use some of the basic features, without
the assistance of other users. I think, however, the list is drifting
quite far from fulfilling this role. As Marck noted, many new
subscribers are unsubscribing shortly after joining. Maybe this has
nothing to do with what's going on on the list, but I doubt it.

For all of us, I suggest: (1) use the TakeItOff thing that Leif
suggested for general discussions of interest, but not particularly
relevant to the purposes of this list (it may not be ideal, but it works
fine), (2) take some of these discussions about developmental philosophy
to the Beta list, where they might be more appropriate, (3) keep public
comments impersonal and do not make discussions about personalities -
take it private, and (4) quit making the snide references to users being
lusers. You're not just talking to each other. That stuff discourages
alot of people from posting or even staying on the list. Whether you
think it should or not is not at all relevant. This isn't the place for
personal crusades to change people or the world. Finally, I'll repeat
here one of Leif's rules for the list:

Play nice, don't be rude. Try to be nice. I know some people irk you or
a question [or a suggestion!] seems absurdly stupid, but not everybody
is as computer savvy as the rest. Try not to be too sarcastic either.
Sometimes the information someone has provided is wrong, so just correct
them without resorting to name calling [...or sacrasm or making it
personal].

Think about it, people, and keep your eye on the objective.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re: (No Subject)

[Steve Lamb]

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 6:36:55 AM, Alexander wrote:
> *many* people on this list *do not* understand your American
> slang

Funny, I'm not using slang in the least bit.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

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Re: Comment on politeness

[Steve Lamb]

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 5:41:51 AM, Nick wrote:
> Drive on the streets of Dallas for one day and you'd begin to welcome a
> little politeness! :)

>   In all your rants though the only one that made my eyebrows raise
> was "Society has gotten a little *too* polite". If that's the case I
> want to live wherever you do, as it's not happening in my neck of the
> woods.

Sure, drive my neck of the woods, LA.  :)

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: [OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[Steve Lamb]

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 5:17:37 AM, Ali wrote:
> There is an optimal balance that can be attained Steve and I don't
> think it's as difficult as you make it out to be.

Of course not, I've attained it.  I'm waiting for everyone else to figure
that out.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

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Re: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Nov 99, at 21:25, tracer wrote
about "Re[2]: Clicking on a sender w/ alt ":

> Jack> Amazingly, that works! I too replied to Douglas before my last fetch
> Jack> so I didn't know you had replied also. Where did you find that? and
> Jack> why doesn't TB! illustrate that instead of the CTRL= ?
> 
> Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)

AFAIK, the new and better help file will be one of the most 
characteristic features of long-expected version 2:-)) 


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch
  either one being made.

--- 
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fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Comment on politeness

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  Nick Danger wrote:

>   While I totally agree that people nowadays can't "take a joke" and
> get offended WAAA-AAY too easily I'm not sure I'd say society has
> gotten too polite.  Drive on the streets of Dallas for one day and
> you'd begin to welcome a little politeness!  :)

>   That said, I also agree if you find something idiotic what's wrong
> with saying it? Hey, it's just your opinion. So basically I support
> someone's right to post wacky stuff on the list as well as your's to
> state your opinion about however "opinionated" that may be.

That's a dangerous stance to take which in effect welcomes you to post
whatever you feel like. Apply what you post here, to what you'd
willingly say to the person if he/she were in front of you and is a
stranger to you. If you do this then you'll be fine and I'm quite sure
that you wouldn't use the word 'idiotic' in such a setting. :)

This is what netiquette is all about.

HTML mail offends.

Improperly trimmed quotes offend.

Large attachments offend.

Being rude offends.   Why belittle this rule over the rest and start
saying that people are too sensitive? That's unreasonable.

Rude, unfortunately, is an elusive term and is based a lot on cultural
upbringing. But my rule of thumb is that if someone thinks that you
are being rude then you almost invariably are in fact being rude, even
more so, if others chime in to indicate the you are being rude.

>   In all your rants though the only one that made my eyebrows raise
> was "Society has gotten a little *too* polite".

No, this is just a symptom and opinion that shows up the problem.

> If that's the case I want to live wherever you do, as it's not
> happening in my neck of the woods.

:))

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> I do this kind of stuff to him all through the picture. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: [OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[Paula Ford]

I thought Marck declared a Dead Horse here.

-- 
Paula Ford
The Bat! 1.35 (reg)
Windows 95 4.0 Build 950

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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[Kevin Boylan]

> Given the two choices of bosses, I'd rather take the one who knows
> what he is doing and is a little rough around the edges than the one
> who doesn't know what he is doing, makes my life and job hell, but,
> damn, can he state it politely.

I wouldn't prefer either boss if the one who knows what he is doing is
rude, talks down to everyone, and has an oversized ego.  He's no
better than the other because he's not going to get anything
accomplished either. The ones that truly impress me are the ones that
know what they are doing AND have some social skills to go along with
that. I've actually had bosses that know nothing technically, but they
were great bosses because they knew it.  They handled the political
side and let me handle the technical side.

> Personally, I think politeness at the expense of accuracy of thought
> and communication is a detriment.  It throws up illusions that
> everything is hunky-dory when, in fact, it is not.  When the party
> in the grips of the illusion realizes that, it is far, FAR worse
> than just coming out, up front, and stating the case instead of
> pussy-footing around.

But politeness doesn't have to be at the expense of accuracy of
thought.  And more often than not, rudeness detracts from those
accurate thoughts. You can be direct and to the point without
including rudeness.

> Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it to
> change.

If there's one thing I don't like it's all the Political Correctness
stuff these days, and I THINK that's what you are aluding to because I
really don't think the world is becoming more polite, it seems to
becoming less polite. But politeness and PC are two different things.
It really is possible to be polite and get a point across at the same
time.  I noticed that everyone listened to and learned from your great
description of MUA etc, myself included.  :-)

Thanks,

Kevin



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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[tracer]

Sunday, November 21, 1999

Hello Steve,

Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote:

Steve> Saturday, November 20, 1999, 3:11:27 PM, Ali wrote:
>> explanation of the findings and the implications etc. They expect it
>> then and there. See what I'm getting at? I have to do that, explaining
>> the same things, day in and day out.

Steve> I certainly do.  In my 3 years of tech support at a small ISP I rarely had
Steve> a customer complain about me, I was considered the best tech on staff, got the
Steve> customer's problems resolved the fastest, was often sent out to customer's
Steve> homes and offices to fix problems they had incurred upon themselves.  Only
Steve> once did a customer ever hear me blow up and that was because of a improperly
Steve> programmed mute button on a phone.  3 years, a couple hundred calls a day.

How many times the same Questions(g)??
main problem with isp problems is that if something suddenly doesnt
work the poor user things he messed it up and starts to fix things
after which the lot probably IS corrupted.
I made them a list and rule number one is NOT to change any
settings...

Steve> What I have described and what you have described, however, are two
Steve> different things.  That is work, this is not.


Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re[2]: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[tracer]

Sunday, November 21, 1999

Hello Jack,

Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote:

Jack> Hi Ali

Jack> Saturday, November 20, 1999, you wrote to the list:

AM>> Hi all,

AM>>   Douglas Hinds wrote:

>>> Today's tip mentioned clicking on a sender w/ alt to see all that
>>> senders messages - like clicking on the sender column, except all
>>> other message are no longer visible. It worked fine.

>>> But I found nothing in the help file anything telling me how to bring
>>> the rest of my messages back into view, short of closing TB!.
>>> (Repeating the procedure did not do the job).

>>> It might a good idea include the antidote along with the tip.  What is
>>> it? (It's probably something obvious I'm missing).

AM>> Your antidote is the good old Escape  key. :)

Jack> Amazingly, that works! I too replied to Douglas before my last fetch
Jack> so I didn't know you had replied also. Where did you find that? and
Jack> why doesn't TB! illustrate that instead of the CTRL= ?


Who volenteers the rewrite the help file (g)

Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 

mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY



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Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Nov 99, at 14:34, tracer wrote
about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah":

> >> Alexander> Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar 
> >> Alexander> bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people 
> >> Alexander> 
> >> Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat
> 
> Alexander> Americans, whom else?:-)))

> How do your bears know the difference

But these are *Russian* bears:-)). They know! Those 
Americans are really funny, they (provided that they know 
*what and where* Russia is anyway) still seem to believe it's 
common for the wild bears to walk down the streets in Russia:-) 
At least I've already seen 3 such guys (all of them Americans) 
who were *really* deadly surprised not to find those bears in 
the streets. and a friend of mine now working in the 
Silicon valley met 2 other Americans, who seemed to believe 
that Russia is located somewhere next to Venezuela:-))


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  I am in total control, but don't tell my wife.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: (No Subject)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Nov 99, at 5:00, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: (No Subject)":

And now, Steve, could you please go and *translate* this to 
proper (i mean, literal) English? I confess, this time I didn't 
understand good half of words you used, although I (and my 
dictionary) really tried hard!

Or else please send me privately a list of your favourite words 
together with their translation. I've already received 5 off-list 
messages supporting my thought (recently posted here) that 
*many* people on this list *do not* understand your American 
slang, and have more interesting things in front of them to do 
then to *learn* it (especially taking into account that to get a 
visa to USA is a real trouble almost everywhere I know, so your 
language isn't the thing we would likely need anyhow).

> Good comparison.  Let me run with it.  Microsoft got to the top because of
> its good looks and butt kissing.  Once on the top everyone below them came to
> realize they weren't the best for that position.  However, now there they are
> very hard to displace with an entity who, while a little less good looking and
> a little less skilled at brown-nosing knows what they are doing, does it
> right, listens to the public but not to the point of killing what they are
> trying to make to appease those who know not of what they ask.
> 
> John Doe got to the top because he wears nice suits and is good at
> butt-kissing.  Once he became supervisor all the people below him came to
> realize that he wasn't the best man for the position.  However, once he was
> there it was very hard to displace the man who could fire you with a man who,
> while his suits aren't as pressed and he's a bit less skilled at schmoozing
> than the guy presently there at least knows the field he is in and isn't
> demanding that you destroy the system you're working on just to save it.
> 
> Given the two choices of bosses, I'd rather take the one who knows what he
> is doing and is a little rough around the edges than the one who doesn't know
> what he is doing, makes my life and job hell, but, damn, can he state it
> politely.
> 
> Personally, I think politeness at the expense of accuracy of thought and
> communication is a detriment.  It throws up illusions that everything is
> hunky-dory when, in fact, it is not.  When the party in the grips of the
> illusion realizes that, it is far, FAR worse than just coming out, up front,
> and stating the case instead of pussy-footing around.
> 
> Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it to change.
> 


SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
-- 
Thought for the day:
  Who is #1?  You are, #6.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Wish for RegExp

[Giamma]

Hello all,

  I think it will be a nice feature if TB can copy/move a message in a
  folder applying a regexp first.
  
  This will be very useful if i want to strip the big tag lines of
  mailing list messages before archiving them. Also for rearrange
  layout of messages of `submission forms` in html pages, sended
  via `post` method.

  Seems to me it can be done without much work...
  
-- 

Ciao! 

 Gian Matteo
 icq:3946333
 The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2



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Re: Comment on politeness

[Nick Danger]

In Reference to "Comment on politeness" From Nick Danger:

ND> (taken off List so as to not raise anyone's blood pressure)



Oops! Guess it's not off list!!  Note to self... get up, make coffee,
drink coffee, THEN write mail.


-- 
- Nick


Using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998



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Re: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  Christopher J. Trybowski wrote:

>> I  found  it  when I was hit with the same problem of trying to undo
>> this  'list specific senders messages' gem of an option. Hitting the
>>   key just came to mind and when I tried it, it worked. It just
>> seemed  to be the appropriate key to use and they indeed assigned it
>> for that. :))

>  ESC  is  a key used for refreshing the folder's display. By th way it
>  also cancels this filtering...

>  Isn't  it  amazing  how  much  one  can learn about the program if he
>  witnesses the program's development (through the discussion list)? :)
>  Especially   with   program   like  TB,  which  really  really  lacks
>  documentation.  That's why such lists are wonderful (and also various
>  FAQ and support pages!).

I really love this discussion list for all that you've said. I also
get to take part in and witness the occasional debates based on
general PC stuff or just e-mail clients in general. In this way, it's
also educational since some very experienced individuals subscribe and
post to the group.


-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Push the limit, and the limit will move away! <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Comment on politeness

[Nick Danger]

In Reference to "(No Subject)" From Steve Lamb:

(taken off List so as to not raise anyone's blood pressure)

SL> Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it to
SL> change.

Steve,

  While I totally agree that people nowadays can't "take a joke" and
get offended WAAA-AAY too easily I'm not sure I'd say society has
gotten too polite.  Drive on the streets of Dallas for one day and
you'd begin to welcome a little politeness!  :)

  That said, I also agree if you find something idiotic what's wrong
with saying it? Hey, it's just your opinion. So basically I support
someone's right to post wacky stuff on the list as well as your's to
state your opinion about however "opinionated" that may be.

  In all your rants though the only one that made my eyebrows raise
was "Society has gotten a little *too* polite". If that's the case I
want to live wherever you do, as it's not happening in my neck of the
woods.

-- 
- Nick

Using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

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Re: OT: Millionaire (was: Re: %Cursor)

[Deryk Lister]

Hi Christopher,
On Sunday 21/11/1999 at 12:48, you wrote:

> The  when  where  one answers questions by choosing one correct answer
> out of four? And where he has three "rescue wheels" to use?

Ha, sounds like it's a common idea :)
We have one in the UK called "Who Wants To Be a Millionaire" hosted by
an irritating man called Chris Tarrant.
You have 4 correct answers, 1 right, 3 wrong, in 15 total questions.
There are 3 "lifelines" as we call them, which are to phone a friend, ask the
audience or 50/50 (leave 1 right and 1 wrong answer).
It's too irritating to watch though, as the host sits there for a
minute asking "Are You Sure... sure sure... certain..." before letting
the player answer :)

>From what I heard, it was our idea in the UK, and it spread around
the world like a bad smell 

-- 
Best regards,
 Derykmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  Steve Lamb wrote:

> Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it to change.

It would appear that you missed the whole point of the example.

I used MS as an example to illustrate that human interaction is of
prime importance and that it can't simply be cast aside. People, by
their very nature listen and respond to inuendos, body language,
politeness, personal deportment etc. in a very significant sense. MS
knows this all too well and used it to there advantage. As I said
clearly before I do not subscribe to that sort of abuse and yes, I
call it abuse, on MS part.

Neither do I subscribe to either of your two scenarios. I dislike the
smart yet shabbily dressed, fowl mouthed worker as much as I dislike
the well dressed, polite worker who knows nothing really. There are
doctors who fit both descriptions and I've had to work with both and
believe me, I don't know which one is worse because they cause equal
amounts of harm but only in different ways.

There is an optimal balance that can be attained Steve and I don't
think it's as difficult as you make it out to be. If you are being
lazy about it, don't try to justify it in this way. I don't go to work
dressed as I feel like simply because I *know* that I'm competent at
what I do and that is all that matters. I know how damaging first
impressions can be and you know what? very often it's very
difficult to rid people of that first impression and even worse, you
don't get a chance to even try.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Real men don't set for stun. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: Clicking on a sender w/ alt & bringing back everyone else

[Christopher J. Trybowski]

On Sunday, November 21, 1999 Ali Martin wrote:

> I  found  it  when I was hit with the same problem of trying to undo
> this  'list specific senders messages' gem of an option. Hitting the
>   key just came to mind and when I tried it, it worked. It just
> seemed  to be the appropriate key to use and they indeed assigned it
> for that. :))

 ESC  is  a key used for refreshing the folder's display. By th way it
 also cancels this filtering...

 Isn't  it  amazing  how  much  one  can learn about the program if he
 witnesses the program's development (through the discussion list)? :)
 Especially   with   program   like  TB,  which  really  really  lacks
 documentation.  That's why such lists are wonderful (and also various
 FAQ and support pages!).

 Best regards,
 
-- 
Christopher J. Trybowski 
~~~
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OT: Millionaire (was: Re: %Cursor)

[Christopher J. Trybowski]

On Saturday, November 20, 1999 Paula Ford wrote:

> I want to be a millionaire too. (For international friends: It's a
> big hit TV show here in the USA.)

The  when  where  one answers questions by choosing one correct answer
out of four? And where he has three "rescue wheels" to use?

If so, then we have it too :-)

-- 
Christopher J. Trybowski 
~~~
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Re: [OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Ali,

On Sunday, November 21, 1999, 8:34:02 PM (GMT+0800), Ali Martin wrote:

Ali>>> c) If someone makes a suggestion that is their own selfish desire I
Ali>>> really don't think the developers at Ritlabs will suddenly implement
Ali>>> it, especially on this very basis, unless it's a compelling and truly
Ali>>> useful suggestion. So why bully them? Furthermore, I genuinely don't
Ali>>> think anyone who suggests changes to TB!, on this discussion list, are
Ali>>> doing it out of selfish desire. The fact that they post the suggestion
Ali>>> on this discussion list is testimony to this. They post it for
Ali>>> discussion and to see how others may feel about it.
>> possible, but anyway suggestions are useful but on the other hand
>> some things are 'illogical' to anyone who has worked with computers a
>> lot.

AM> There are many ways to make this known, or indicate this, without
AM> being abusive in the process or hurting the 'suggestors' feelings.

I think TBUDL is also a forum for suggestions. May the be "illogical"
or "idiotic", I for one will continue to use my creativity, even it is
not always as good - or development-improving, for want of a better
word - as I thought. As a The Bat! User, I bring up ideas for
Discussion on this List (capitalizations intended), and encourage
everyone to do that, too. Even if some ideas may be "illogical" or
even called "selfish" or "idiotic".

And, Tracer,working with computers and knowing internet stuff (RFC
etc) is not the same. I have been on the Internet for four years,
spending most of that time just using email and browsing the net, thus
still being a newbie in many respects, while I worked with computers
at time when a cubboard-sized machine in a clima-controlled room had
so little power that my home PC of today would have been called a
supercomputer. The whole world connected via an "International
Network of Computers" - now that was an illogical idea back then. Read
too much Sci-Fi?

I do agree with Ali that nicer phrases can be just as clear. I don't
think my idea was idiotic or selfish, but I have learned that it is
against common practice. That's fine, I can live with that.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM

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Re: (No Subject)

[Steve Lamb]

Sunday, November 21, 1999, 4:07:05 AM, Ali wrote:
> This is why MS became successful enough to wield monopoly power, i.e., nice
> advertising and making their customers feel good, giving them what they want
> instead of telling them what they need. I know that this is not a good thing
> but I'm just illustrating the importance of human interaction and that you
> can't simply sweep it's importance into third space with words to the effect
> that subscribers had better grow a thick skin to deal with your abrasive
> style or get out of the way.

Good comparison.  Let me run with it.  Microsoft got to the top because of
its good looks and butt kissing.  Once on the top everyone below them came to
realize they weren't the best for that position.  However, now there they are
very hard to displace with an entity who, while a little less good looking and
a little less skilled at brown-nosing knows what they are doing, does it
right, listens to the public but not to the point of killing what they are
trying to make to appease those who know not of what they ask.

John Doe got to the top because he wears nice suits and is good at
butt-kissing.  Once he became supervisor all the people below him came to
realize that he wasn't the best man for the position.  However, once he was
there it was very hard to displace the man who could fire you with a man who,
while his suits aren't as pressed and he's a bit less skilled at schmoozing
than the guy presently there at least knows the field he is in and isn't
demanding that you destroy the system you're working on just to save it.

Given the two choices of bosses, I'd rather take the one who knows what he
is doing and is a little rough around the edges than the one who doesn't know
what he is doing, makes my life and job hell, but, damn, can he state it
politely.

Personally, I think politeness at the expense of accuracy of thought and
communication is a detriment.  It throws up illusions that everything is
hunky-dory when, in fact, it is not.  When the party in the grips of the
illusion realizes that, it is far, FAR worse than just coming out, up front,
and stating the case instead of pussy-footing around.

Society has gotten a little *too* polite and it is time for it to change.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

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[OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  tracer wrote:

Ali>> You really didn't need to use my profession to get your point across.
> I already made this comparison ( locally) many times.
> In a way it has a lot in common, except that the computer cannot tell
> why he doesnt feel good. And you have the interpreter (the owner) who
> half the time caused the problem and will not agree it was his fault.

Oh, I could give a quick example of that.

a) An obese patient comes to me complaining of back pain which 15
other doctors have not treated satisfactorily. This patient is only
30yrs old. I advise the patient that the body is constantly in a state
of breakdown and building up and that if breakdown occurs in excess of
buildup then problems will ensue. Being overweight increases breakdown
where joint surfaces and ligaments are concerned. Furthermore, muscles
help to support joints and ligaments to reduce 'wear and tear' and
obese individuals, by their very nature, tend not to exercise, and
therefore have weak musculature. The formula therefore is to diet,
loose weight and also exercise. Usually there is this long silence and
obvious look of dissatisfaction on the patients face. Anyway the
patient now asks for something to relieve the pain so I write a
prescription, and also referrals to a dietitian and physiotherapist.
When the patient returns, I am greeted with the complaint that the
medication didn't work because the pain is still there and also that
the dietitian and physiotherapist were not seen. I am then told that I
am being grouped with the other 15 doctors who can't seem to find a
cure for the problem. It takes the patience of Job not to crack at
that point doesn't it? :))

> Consider the similarities  and you know what I mean.

I know what you mean very much without having to make parallels.

> Most of the time its treating the owners, not their systems, to get
> them into better habits.

See above.

> And it can be damned hard work to stay friendly and explain it for the
> 20th time or whatever.

Absolutely and I do get curt at times but on this list I'd just not
answer, unless of course, I'm being unfairly accused or blasted. :)))

> However, as you say on this list and others one has a choice.
> One can ignore questions one wants to ignore...

Correct.

> I know but you think one hasnt got that problem if like I myself was
> supporting a major part of our Europe/Middle East and Afika  Computer
> operations?

No, I'm not saying this. I'm saying that this discussion list, and
what it entails, dims in comparison to the demands on any
professional, who's job entails helping people who don't know about
what they are doing or don't know anything about their problem. It's
the individuals with this sort of professional background that I'd
expect to find being polite on this list being effortless. :)

Ali>> c) If someone makes a suggestion that is their own selfish desire I
Ali>> really don't think the developers at Ritlabs will suddenly implement
Ali>> it, especially on this very basis, unless it's a compelling and truly
Ali>> useful suggestion. So why bully them? Furthermore, I genuinely don't
Ali>> think anyone who suggests changes to TB!, on this discussion list, are
Ali>> doing it out of selfish desire. The fact that they post the suggestion
Ali>> on this discussion list is testimony to this. They post it for
Ali>> discussion and to see how others may feel about it.
> possible, but anyway suggestions are useful but on the other hand
> some things are 'illogical' to anyone who has worked with computers a
> lot.

There are many ways to make this known, or indicate this, without
being abusive in the process or hurting the 'suggestors' feelings.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Radioactive halibut will make fission chips. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: (No Subject)

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  Steve Lamb wrote:

> I certainly do.  In my 3 years of tech support at a small ISP I rarely had
> a customer complain about me, I was considered the best tech on staff, got the
> customer's problems resolved the fastest, was often sent out to customer's
> homes and offices to fix problems they had incurred upon themselves.  Only
> once did a customer ever hear me blow up and that was because of a improperly
> programmed mute button on a phone.  3 years, a couple hundred calls a day.

> What I have described and what you have described, however, are two
> different things.  That is work, this is not.

Exactly, but this is where we differ. I don't feel obligated to post
here because I'm not paid to do this and I'm not a moderator, but I do
feel obligated to be polite whenever I do choose to post here. If you
choose to make the effort to be polite only when working then . I
don't know what to say.

I'm sure that you're high ratings had a lot to do with your behavior.
This scores major points for me professionally. This is why MS became
successful enough to wield monopoly power, i.e., nice advertising and
making their customers feel good, giving them what they want instead
of telling them what they need. I know that this is not a good thing
but I'm just illustrating the importance of human interaction and that
you can't simply sweep it's importance into third space with words to
the effect that subscribers had better grow a thick skin to deal with
your abrasive style or get out of the way.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Food is an important part of a balanced diet. <<<
**
  Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6)
**

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Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...

[Ali Martin]

Hi all,

  Steve Lamb wrote:

 
>> Alt-F1, login, mutt;
>> Alt-F2, login, mutt;
>> in the mutt#1 open one IMAP account, in the mutt#2 open 
>> another. What else do you want?

> That is two copies of mutt.  Would you be as happy with TB! if you had to
> open a separate copy of it for each account that you had?  I know I wouldn't.

I did this with Forte' Agent and disliked it a lot.

-- 
Regards,
 -=Ali=-   

   >>> Reality is nothing but a collective hunch. <<<
**
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**

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Re[2]: (No Subject)

[tracer]

Sunday, November 21, 1999

Hello Ali,

Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote:

Ali> Hi all,

Ali>   tracer wrote:

>> Now what do YOU say about the 10th patient who comes sneezing in your
>> office  on a day...

Ali> You really didn't need to use my profession to get your point across.
I already made this comparison ( locally) many times.
In a way it has a lot in common, except that the computer cannot tell
why he doesnt feel good. And you have the interpreter (the owner) who
half the time caused the problem and will not agree it was his fault.
He may not even realise it.
One good example here is portables which have a sleep mode. If used it
means the 98 never makes the system backup on the first boot of the
day. And those backups are very very important.

Consider the similarities  and you know what I mean.
Most of the time its treating the owners, not their systems, to get
them into better habits.
And it can be damned hard work to stay friendly and explain it for the
20th time or whatever.

However, as you say on this list and others one has a choice.
One can ignore questions one wants to ignore...


Ali> I see that you're trying to give an example of having to deal with
Ali> repetitive queries. Now, a profession like mine deals with something
Ali> like this everyday and I can give you real world examples.
Thats why I mentioned it...

Ali> Gallstones and Hernias are extremely common. I would see on average 3
Ali> to 4 patients per week with each. Each patient expects an explanation
Ali> of the problem, it's treatment, the nature of the surgery and when
Ali> they'll be able to go back to work. Unlike usenet though and over a
Ali> phone line, I can't simply be curt or unfriendly telling them to go
Ali> read a manual or that I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over
Ali> again.

Ali> Another common scenario is an elderly patient that comes in with all
Ali> relatives flocking around. The elderly patient is sick and requires
Ali> emergency surgery and I have to communicate this, not only to the
Ali> patient but to the concerned relatives as well. They of course begin
Ali> to state their concern about their elderly relative being able to
Ali> tolerate major surgery in such an ailed state. I now have to go
Ali> through the whole risk-benefit analysis behind my decision. It's not
Ali> unusual for this to be happening at ungodly hours of the morning when
Ali> I'm tired and working for the last 18hrs. Furthermore, after doing the
Ali> operation, the keen relative will be awaiting my arrival from out the
Ali> operating room. Unlike TV soap operas, the keen relative will not
Ali> accept, "The surgery went OK, and he/she should do fine", as being
Ali> adequate information at the time. They expect a more in depth
Ali> explanation of the findings and the implications etc. They expect it
Ali> then and there. See what I'm getting at? I have to do that, explaining
Ali> the same things, day in and day out.

I know but you think one hasnt got that problem if like I myself was
supporting a major part of our Europe/Middle East and Afika  Computer
operations?
They had systems dying / getting sick at all times, and everybody
considered theirs to be unique, Again you couldnt tell them to get
stuffed and if you tried to help them too quick (as it was the 10th
time that day or so someone came with the same question), they say you
arent interested in their problems...

Ali> This is why you see me posting at ungodly hours at times. I'm either
Ali> at home for a break or winding down to go to bed. :)
Same here And it gives you time to relax! Forget the daily other
problems

Ali> So three things:

Ali> a) In all my years of having to deal with people of all sizes shapes,
Ali> ages, ethnicity, social status, cultures; I'm yet to meet one with the
Ali> type of 'hard skin' that Steve expects them to have.
correct...   And if these are paying customers they never come back.
The reason I try to keep my partner as far away from the customers as
I can...

Ali> b) If it's so frustrating to answer these questions, why answer them
Ali> then? You do have a choice on this group you know. The frustration
Ali> that is possible through having to repeat oneself in this group dims
Ali> in comparison to what my profession entails. I'm not saying that I
Ali> don't get frustrated myself, but I don't dare let the patients or
Ali> relatives realize this or else it will come back to haunt me, and it's
Ali> also rude and unkind.
correct...

Ali> c) If someone makes a suggestion that is their own selfish desire I
Ali> really don't think the developers at Ritlabs will suddenly implement
Ali> it, especially on this very basis, unless it's a compelling and truly
Ali> useful suggestion. So why bully them? Furthermore, I genuinely don't
Ali> think anyone who suggests changes to TB!, on this discussion list, are
Ali> doing it out of selfish desire. The fact that they post the suggestion
Ali> on this discussion list is testimony to this. They post

Re: Navigating Folders (Was: Re: %Cursor)

[Jast]

Morning Paula Ford,

> I also never use the Folder View. I think it's reasonable to request
> a some key command that will go to the next new message in the next
> folder. Would it be difficult to implement?

 If you only use the main ! window then it isn't really neccessary to
 implent a key for that, as the account tree is a maximum of two
 tab-presses away. But I still agree it would be useful for
 folder-view, or if the folders with new mails are far out of each
 other. Uh, yeah.


-- 
+--Jast
|on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 
:with The Bat! 1.36



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