Re: (No Subject)

[Curtis]

On   Tue, 11 Jul 2000 01:58:33 +0200, Andrzej Bauer wrote:

AB> I have a folder where I manually move all my incoming spam (it's
AB> usually the msgs that are left after all my incoming filters have
AB> run).  I then forward all the spam (with full headers) to my ISP's
AB> Abuse department and move it to another spam archive folder.  I
AB> definitely want to forward, and not redirect, 'cause the good folks
AB> in the Abuse dept have told me that forwarding makes it easier for
AB> them to parse the spam reports automagically and not confuse spam
AB> reporters with the spammers themselves.

You could create a manual reply filter to forward the messages
using a blank string and making the source and destination folders the
spam folder. You can then run the filter periodically. You could even
assign a hot key to it.

-- 
A.C. Martin  [ TB! v1.45 Beta/5 | Win2k Pro ]
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

 "DOS Tip #63: add BUGS=OFF to CONFIG.SYS "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Curtis]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:55:39 +0200, SyP wrote:

Allie>> By the way, I ran that above paragraph through my text cleaner
Allie>> and this is what it read:

S> Did you mean that literally?  What text cleaner?

There are two that I have used.

Text Cleaner :  www.comp4learn.com/cleaner

and

Message Cleaner: http://www.roundhillsoftware.com/MessageCleaner/

-- 
A.C. Martin  [ TB! v1.45 Beta/5 | Win2k Pro ]
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

 "WYTYSYDG...What You Thought You Saw, You Didn't Get "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (VOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Curtis]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:45:13 -0700, Tom Plunket wrote:

C>> Agent really shines in it's stability, portability and the ease
C>> with which one can navigate and read news messages. Otherwise it's
C>> pretty much equalled and in many respects bettered by Gravity and
C>> X-News.

TP> Umm, what more do you want from a news client than ease in navigating
TP> and reading news?  :)  (I'm considering the filtering options an
TP> obvious portion of both.)

Message scoring?

-- 
A.C. Martin  [ TB! v1.45 Beta/5 | Win2k Pro ]
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

 "To live well, know the difference between good and evil. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[2]: Filter (and Template) to Foward All Mail In a Folder To One Address?

[Alex P. Madarasz, Jr.]

Monday, July 10, 2000, 8:36:47 AM, you wrote:

>> I want to set up a TB filter (and, I assume in TB, probably a
>> template) forward all of the emails (including full headers, which
>> as far as I can see means using only the HEADERS and TEXT macros)
>> in any folder to a single email address.

ML> I think the terms you use make your intent unclear. What do you mean
ML> by "forward[ing] all of the emails in any FOLDER to a single EMAIL
ML> ADDRESS"? Let me try to decipher and answer your question:

I mean exactly what I said, of course.

;-)

I have a folder where I manually move all my incoming spam (it's usually the msgs
that are left after all my incoming filters have run).  I then forward all
the spam (with full headers) to my ISP's Abuse department and move it to
another spam archive folder.  I definitely want to forward, and not
redirect, 'cause the good folks in the Abuse dept have told me that
forwarding makes it easier for them to parse the spam reports automagically
and not confuse spam reporters with the spammers themselves.


ML> 1. If you want a "manual" filter (or maybe "read" filter) that would
ML> forward all the messages already sorted into your various folders,
ML> to another email address that isn't yours or isn't managed by TB
ML> (this makes the least sense to me, but it's closest to your literal
ML> meaning), then create an empty filter (a filter with no filter
ML> string) associated with the action "forward to" or "redirect to".

Yep, that sounds most like what I want to do.


ML> One problem, though. The "move to folder" has to be changed manually
ML> each time you apply the filter to a different folder if you don't
ML> want the messages to be moved.

I do want them moved - the folder I'm running the filter on and the folder
I'm moving the reported spam email to (after forwarding) are both constant.


ML> 2. If you want a "incoming" filter that auto-forward all incoming
ML> messages to an address, then same answer as 1. Remember to move the
ML> filter to top and check the "continue processing with other filters"
ML> option should you want the messages to be handled by other filters.

Nope, not an incoming filter.


ML> 3. If the email address is yours and is managed by TB, then make the
ML> filter to copy/move them within TB is easier.

Ah, would that things were this easy!

;-)

Thanks for taking all the time with this!

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Filter (and Template) to Foward All Mail In a Folder To One Address?

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Ming-Li,


On  Monday, July 10, 2000  at  05:36:47 GMT -0700 (which was 5:36 AM
where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:


> 3. If the email address is yours and is managed by TB, then make the
> filter to copy/move them within TB is easier.

   Actually, this is not the "ideal" solution (depending on the
situation of course).  Say you get a message to account A that really
should have gone to account B.  But you're on a dialup account and/or
don't want to waste your POP server's resources.  If both account A
and B are managed by TB, then set:

 Options -> Network and Administration -> Check allow Local delivery.

   Then you can set up a filter to redirect/forward your message from
account A to account B, and your message will be moved to the Inbox of
account B.

   But why do this instead of just creating a move filter?  The answer
is, your filters in account B will *not* recognize a message *moved*
into the Inbox, regardless of the "Continue Processing" Flag. However,
with the Local delivery option, account B thinks it is getting a new
message, just as if you were downloading it from your POP server. Thus
your Incoming filters for account B will trigger.

   I don't believe this behaviour has changed in any of the newest
versions.  At least I haven't seen mention of it.


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Using The Bat! 1.45 Beta/5
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

How come wrong numbers are never busy?

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (No Subject)

[Tom Plunket]

AB> does anybody know, how to get rid of startup logo...? I simply don't
AB> like it. At all!

In the shortcut that you use to start TB!, append '/nologo', as in:

"C:\Program Files\The Bat!\thebat.exe" /nologo

-tom!

-- 
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Difference between Threads and Subject

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

Hi Ron,

On 10 July 2000 at 18:56:50 GMT -0400 (which was 23:56 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Difference between Threads and Subject":

RC> Can some please explain the difference between viewing by thread
RC> and sorting by subject??

Threaded  view  is very different from sorting. Threading involves the
relationship   between  messages  using  Message-Id,  In-Reply-To  and
References headers to form a nested chain of related messages. Even if
the  topic changes within a thread, message nesting and relatedness is
preserved.

May   I   take   this   opportunity   to   point   out  that,  for  us
thread-by-reference  view  addicts, replying to start a new topic is a
very antisocial practice!

Sorting  by  subject  has very little use for me personally. I sort by
Creation  Time  and  Thread by Reference (or by none when over-viewing
the entire list to find a particular message).

-- 
Cheers,
.\\arck

Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer
Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
www: http://www.silverstones.com
PGP key: 

*---
| Using The Bat! 1.45 Beta/5 S/N 14F4B4B2
| under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
*---

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (No Subject)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

Hi Andrzej,

On 11 July 2000 at 01:58:33 GMT +0200 (which was 00:58 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of "(No Subject)":

AB> does anybody know, how to get rid of startup logo...? I simply don't
AB> like it. At all!

Change  the  properties  of the shortcut you are using to launch TB to
include the /NOLOGO command line switch.

HTH

-- 
Cheers,
.\\arck

Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer
Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
www: http://www.silverstones.com
PGP key: 

*---
| Using The Bat! 1.45 Beta/5 S/N 14F4B4B2
| under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
*---

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

(No Subject)

[Andrzej Bauer]

Hi All!

does anybody know, how to get rid of startup logo...? I simply don't
like it. At all!

greetings,

  

 

 Andrzej
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Difference between Threads and Subject

[Ron Carson]

Hello All:

Can some please explain the difference between viewing by thread and sorting
by subject??

Ron

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[3]: rule that plays a sound

[Jason Thompson]

Hello Mitch and Bat Buddies...

MW> Can you recommend another sound player, one that runs in the
MW> background without grabbing focus?

I have one that is 1.5kb. It is packaged with the freeware NetLaunch program. It
has no interface whatsoever so it doesn't grab the focus. You specify a wav file
with the command line.
Download NetLaunch yourself @ www.blackcastlesoft.com
Or I can send you the exe myself if you wouldn't mind.

-- 
Unequivocally,
Jason Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

The Bat! v1.45 Beta/5 Win98


-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Jast]

Morning Ming-Li,

> I could be prooved wrong, but I think people attracted to TB are
> mostly looking for their 2nd (3rd, etc.) email clients. Those who
> touch computer or use the Internet for the first time would mostly
> go for the freebies already on their system. Therefore, to
> understand their expectation is important. Unless you're MS, you
> can't force people to learn your tricks.
  
 I think I'm an exception here then ;-) It was a little more than 2
 years ago I think that I quit CompuServe, and thus had the need to go
 out looking for a "real" mail client. My very first expirience was
 some very annoyingly handleable mail client supplied as part of a
 networking package I happened to have installed. I used it for about
 2 mails and that was that. So I went over to winfiles.com and started
 looking for a nice offline reader. After seeing TB was by RITlabs,
 the guys who made my favorite DOS-shell, the choice was clear, and I
 didn't even try anything else ... a little biased, posssibly. But it
 seems my mother, who is unwilling to learn even the slightest
 advanced functionality, can handle the basic functions of TB without
 my help  Well, that's my story, for anyone who likes to read
 stories.

 Oh, and yes. I mostly agree on your other points.

-- 
.. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  using TB 1.45 Beta/5
:  with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM
:. on Windows 98 4.10  A 
Jabber  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AIM jasticle
ICQ 37456745



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (No Subject)

[Jast]

Morning tracer,

>   I had problems shutting the Bat down, it doesnt want to and when
>   sending a msg without a subject it seemed to me the question answers
>   were the wrong way around.

 I think these are actually beta issues, and thus should be discussed
 on the beta list. The former problem is also present on Win98 with
 the current beta.

-- 
.. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  using TB 1.45 Beta/5
:  with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM
:. on Windows 98 4.10  A 
Jabber  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AIM jasticle
ICQ 37456745



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re[2]: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[SyP]

Hello Allie,

You wrote on 7/10/2000, 8:31 PM

Allie> By the way, I ran that above paragraph through my text cleaner and
Allie> this is what it read:

Did you mean that literally?  What text cleaner?

-- 
Cheers, SyP

Traffic jams are the number one reason for nuclear war. (Fred Merrill)



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (VOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Tom Plunket]

C> Agent really shines in it's stability, portability and the ease
C> with which one can navigate and read news messages. Otherwise it's
C> pretty much equalled and in many respects bettered by Gravity and
C> X-News.

Umm, what more do you want from a news client than ease in navigating
and reading news?  :)  (I'm considering the filtering options an
obvious portion of both.)


-tom!

-- 
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Tom Plunket]

ML> being able to mark a word bold is more important (and they think
ML> using _these words are bold_ is an awkward alternative).

Come on now, the underscore means "underline" and you use asterisks to
indicate bold.  :)

Actually, I was stunned the first time Word did that formatting for
me.  I was so used to writing email-style, that I did _something new_
and actually got it underlined.

ML> A sad but true fact is, I rarely bother to indent or use caret marks
ML> (to highlight) anymore (unless I'm sure the recipients use mono
ML> fonts as well, such as people in this group), because I don't know
ML> whether it would be presented as I intended in the recipient's email
ML> client.

What kills me is when people do the caret underlining with
proportional fonts on.  Just ridiculous.

ML> Given the ubiquitous usage of proportional fonts in email clients, I
ML> even think the claim that TB format messages perfectly is a little
ML> bit, dare I say, self-serving.

I agree, although with the caveat that it does what *I* want, so it
does the right thing.  :)

-tom!

-- 
Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out.

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Help! Charset problem

[Ming-Li]

Hi All,

>   I thought I've solved the problem of not being able to send
> Chinese messages with the proper charset setting. [...] It turned
> out, as I investigate further, that TB never did override my
> charset setting with "big5".

Never mind, I fixed it.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Paula Ford]

What is difficult about TB? It seems to me that for a casual user TB is
as simple to set up and use as any other mailer I've tried. I think it
may be more a problem with documentation, which certainly needs to be
updated.

I use TB in fairly complex ways, but I've never felt a need to use
regular expressions or even signature files. If a user needs to use regular
expressions, then it seems to me that they no longer qualify as a casual
user. :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Paulamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Curtis]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:58:33 -0700, Ming-Li wrote:

ML> I tried X-News a while back, and it stayed on my system much longer
ML> than Gravity. It has some innovative features that truly make the
ML> newsreading experience enjoyable. The big minus? It's an online
ML> reader and the author makes clear he has no intention to add true
ML> offline capability to it. I need an offline reader, so it's out
ML> after I switch to Win2k.

The author of X-News adopts the attitude typical and
understandable of freeware developers. 'Take it or leave it'. My
freeware arsenal is therefore quite small. X-News would be the best if
it had good off-line reading capabilities.

ML> I guess I'm simply spoiled by Agent. When I try a new one, I expect
ML> nothing less than what Agent could provide, and any feature (that I
ML> use) missing in the new software appears to be glaring to me. It's
ML> not fair, I know. I just couldn't help it.

Agent really shines in it's stability, portability and the ease
with which one can navigate and read news messages. Otherwise it's
pretty much equalled and in many respects bettered by Gravity and
X-News.

>> I vividly remembering getting frustrated in how to to
>> setup Agent for e-mail and to create a few folders. Unbelievably
>> unintuitive at the time. :-)

ML> Really? I can't believe it. I must have used it for too long to
ML> remember.

Hehe. I remember though.

ML> Example no. 1,



I agree with all your points there, except for the folder
sorting. That's a single learnt point. Once learnt, never forgotten.
Automatic sorting?  I'm curious about those who wish their
folders to be resorted with the addition of new folders. I tend to want
particular folders to be in particular places and not merely sorted by
name. That's just me.

ML> That's an interesting observation. You mean OE, Outlook and Eudora
ML> can't format the messages correctly? Are you referring to HTML mail?
ML> Could you be more specific?

Take a look at this:



> > >A Sunday school teacher was discussing the Ten Commandments with
her
> five
> >
> > > and six year olds. After explaining the commandment to "honor thy
father
> and
> >
> > > thy mother," she asked, "Is there a commandment that teaches us how to
> treat
> >
> > > our brothers and sisters?"
> >
> > >
> >
> > >Without missing a beat one little boy (the oldest of a Family)
> answered,
> >
> > > "Thou shall not kill."
> >
> > >
> >



Readable?  Terrible if you ask me. Now if this was a chain
letter between capable TB! users then this would never happen. In fact,
simply hitting forward each time with TB! still would not produce such
lousy formatting.

The reason for this is that OE, Outlook, Eudora, Calypso and
their ilk, wrap text upon sending. As a result of this, quoted text,
that appears fine during editing, is re-flowed in a horrid manner. Take
a look at Usenet and what OE has done to the quality of text quoting.

By the way, I ran that above paragraph through my text cleaner
and this is what it read:



>>> A Sunday school teacher was discussing the Ten Commandments with
>>> her five and six year olds. After explaining the commandment to 
>>> "honor thy father and thy mother," she asked, "Is there a commandment 
>>> that teaches us how to treat our brothers and sisters?" 
>>> 
>>> Without missing a beat one little boy (the oldest of a Family) 
>>> answered, 
>>> 
>>> "Thou shall not kill." 

+

A! Now isn't that more readable? :-)

-- 
A.C. Martin  [ TB! v1.45 Beta/5 | Win2k Pro ]
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

 "Matrimony isn't a word, it's a sentence. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Help! Charset problem

[Ming-Li]

Hello All,

  I thought I've solved the problem of not being able to send
Chinese messages with the proper charset setting. The solution I've
been using is to create a template for my Chinese mail which include
the following line:

%CHARSET="big5"

The macro description suggests this would override character set. I
was too confident to check my outgoing mail, until some people began
to complain receiving unreadable Chinese mail. At first I thought
it's because I didn't put them in my "Chinese mail" group in the
address book. It turned out, as I investigate further, that TB never
did override my charset setting with "big5".

What am I doing wrong?

I've tried

%CHARSET=""%CHARSET="big5"

as well, to no avail.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Ming-Li]

Hi Marck,

ML>> I appreciate TB gives me the power to control exactly how my
ML>> folders should be lined up, but I think auto-sorting should be
ML>> default, or at least there should be an option to allow
ML>> auto-sorting.

> Perhaps.  For  my  own  use an alphabetic sorting of the folders
> would make  no  sense.  I  maintain a large and hand honed tree of
> carefully arranged and nested folders.

Me too. I have quite a few folders in Chinese names and TB can't
sort them right anyway. My point is, most average users expect
auto-sorting behavior (for that's what they have in most other
software) and they'll have a hard time figuring out how to make TB
do that. Some of them will be very disappointed when they find out
the "auto" part is impossible.

Given my assumption (which could be wrong) that people who want and
appreciate absolute folder order control are, generally speaking,
more advanced users, I suggest TB to adopt auto-sorting as default
and make manual ordering optional.

ML>> That's an interesting observation. You mean OE, Outlook and
ML>> Eudora can't format the messages correctly? Are you referring
ML>> to HTML mail? Could you be more specific?

> I  can  shed  some  light. You don't have to look as far as HTML
> mail. Because  these other clients default to using variable pitch
> fonts any layout  you  may give a text message hasn't a single
> chance of turning out  looking as you sent it when it arrives at
> the destination. Not so TB  text  mail.  IMNSHO when it comes to
> text layout, TB is one of (if not  _the_)  best  there  is.  There
> are  another  couple  of  newbie down-sides  to  that  aspect of
> TB's functionality that usually elicit howls  of  derision:  fixed
> fonts,  virtual  space and no discernable paragraph  delimiters
> (CR/CR  isn't intuitively obvious). Sadly these aspects  are
> compulsory  for  the  plus-side  plain  text  formatting
> capabilities.  I  believe  it's  a  good trade off - it's not
> always a shared  opinion,  however (and I don't want to get "into
> one" with any one over it).

I agree with you mostly, except that I think this whole thing should
be made optional.

My point was, OE and its peers serve average users with very basic
needs pretty well. Let's face it, not many people bother to format
their email, and many of those who do use HTML mail. We might think
perfect spacing and indenting are more important, others might think
being able to mark a word bold is more important (and they think
using _these words are bold_ is an awkward alternative).

A sad but true fact is, I rarely bother to indent or use caret marks
(to highlight) anymore (unless I'm sure the recipients use mono
fonts as well, such as people in this group), because I don't know
whether it would be presented as I intended in the recipient's email
client. Heck, in the Fidonet era, I could even hand-draw tables in
email, and there were all sorts of wonderful ASCII graphic arts in
the signature lines. I no long do.

Given the ubiquitous usage of proportional fonts in email clients, I
even think the claim that TB format messages perfectly is a little
bit, dare I say, self-serving.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

Hi Ming-Li,

On 10 July 2000 at 06:58:33 GMT -0700 (which was 14:58 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of "(SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards":

ML> I appreciate TB gives me the power to control exactly how my
ML> folders should be lined up, but I think auto-sorting should be
ML> default, or at least there should be an option to allow
ML> auto-sorting.

Perhaps.  For  my  own  use an alphabetic sorting of the folders would
make  no  sense.  I  maintain a large and hand honed tree of carefully
arranged and nested folders.

ML> ... I just couldn't figure out a way to set up a filter that could
ML> be  applied  to  various  folders  without moving the messages (to
ML> assign colors to some messages, e.g.).

This  usefulness  of  this  belies  the  simplicity of the request. As
filters  become  more  and  more capable, so tying them to moving mail
makes  less and less sense with each enhancement. Hey - Stef and Max -
how about it? Time to cut that umbilical yet?

ML> I could be prooved wrong, but I think people attracted to TB are
ML> mostly looking for their 2nd (3rd, etc.) email clients...

I don't think you will be (proved wrong).

>> True. But without even going into TB!'s more powerful
>> features, it's default, very basic, design philosophy of control
>> over what one is sending to the recipient is a great one. What you
>> see before you hit the send button being what the recipient will
>> get, combined with effective means to optimize this are
>> distressingly rare qualities among the clients out there including
>> the leading ones. In fact the leading ones, ie, OE, Outlook and
>> Eudora fall flat on their faces in this regard and hence I avoid
>> them like the plague.

ML> That's an interesting observation. You mean OE, Outlook and Eudora
ML> can't format the messages correctly? Are you referring to HTML
ML> mail? Could you be more specific?

I  can  shed  some  light. You don't have to look as far as HTML mail.
Because  these other clients default to using variable pitch fonts any
layout  you  may give a text message hasn't a single chance of turning
out  looking as you sent it when it arrives at the destination. Not so
TB  text  mail.  IMNSHO when it comes to text layout, TB is one of (if
not  _the_)  best  there  is.  There  are  another  couple  of  newbie
down-sides  to  that  aspect of TB's functionality that usually elicit
howls  of  derision:  fixed  fonts,  virtual  space and no discernable
paragraph  delimiters  (CR/CR  isn't intuitively obvious). Sadly these
aspects  are  compulsory  for  the  plus-side  plain  text  formatting
capabilities.  I  believe  it's  a  good trade off - it's not always a
shared  opinion,  however (and I don't want to get "into one" with any
one over it).

-- 
Cheers,
.\\arck

Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer
Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
www: http://www.silverstones.com
PGP key: 

*---
| Using The Bat! 1.45 Beta/5 S/N 14F4B4B2
| under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
*---

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Ming-Li]

Hi tracer,

> But what it proves is that there is a distinct market for a well
> working simple usable email client.

Again, I can't comment on Allegromail, but the download count seems
to suggest not too many people are attracted to it. And I'll stick
to my earlier point that it's very hard to get simpler than the two
big (and other freebies) and ask people to pay.

> My customers wouldnt want all the bells and whistles, they want to
> push buttons and get their mail and have it being sorted in the
> easiest way, no complicated stuff.. if you want the average user to
> pay for a more complicated program...

I wonder why they wouldn't go for, say, OE? Because you tell them
not to? What's the reasons you use to convince them? I would like to
know for I might need them as well. So far security concern is the
only one I know (yes, email bugs scare average users to death).

I do agree TB could try to provide a "basic" mode as an option which
can be "upgraded" to the "expert" mode by [un]checking a check box
or something. This should fit nicely those "casual" users I
mentioned earlier that want to start from basic but also want some
room for growth.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (SOT) Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[Ming-Li]

Hi Allie,

> Microplanet Gravity does a good job of that. In fact it's
> superior in quite a few respects to Forte' Agent and I was using
> it instead of Agent for some time. Forte' Agent's superior basic
> usability features won out in the end. It's just so nice and
> *comfortable* to use.

Tried Gravity a few times with various versions, and always came
back to Agent before long. I have no use for many of its fancy stuff
(graphic database and the like), and it seemed to be a tad buggy.
Agent, on my systems (yes, even on those notoriously buggy early
versions of Chinese Windows), has always been rock solid.

> Gravity seems to have the edge now in the mainstream
> circles. Agent seems to have the edge in the hardcore, savvy user
> circles although other clients like X-News come into the picture.

I tried X-News a while back, and it stayed on my system much longer
than Gravity. It has some innovative features that truly make the
newsreading experience enjoyable. The big minus? It's an online
reader and the author makes clear he has no intention to add true
offline capability to it. I need an offline reader, so it's out
after I switch to Win2k.

I guess I'm simply spoiled by Agent. When I try a new one, I expect
nothing less than what Agent could provide, and any feature (that I
use) missing in the new software appears to be glaring to me. It's
not fair, I know. I just couldn't help it.

> I vividly remembering getting frustrated in how to to
> setup Agent for e-mail and to create a few folders. Unbelievably
> unintuitive at the time. :-)

Really? I can't believe it. I must have used it for too long to
remember.

> You do have a point there although TB!'s method of dealing
> with multiple accounts is quite uncommon. The interface is also
> elegant and very clear in design.

I like that, too.

ML>> I agree, however, that if somehow RITLabs could find a way to
ML>> smooth the learning curve of TB, it could be more easily
ML>> recommended to casual users.

> Funny, what attracts me to TB! is how much you can do with
> it with relative ease and not having to learn too much to do so.
> We tend to confuse a poor help system with difficulty in learning.
> Take the templates and filtering for instance. Very powerful and
> easy to learn. Poorly documented however. If you're not willing to
> experiment and learn through simple trial and error, you're pretty
> much in the cold. :-(

> TB! needs a good help file. This would take it a long way.

I agree with you that TB's help system could use a lot of help, and
a good one would take it a long way. I meant more than that by
saying RIT needs to smooth the learning curve for TB. Some of its
features are simply non-intuitive, and a new user find herself
pressing F1 all the time, no matter how exhaustive and helpful the
Help System is, she might get frustrated.

Example no. 1, you can't search messages without a search string
(can't search by date only). Yeah, it could be worked around, but
it's unintuitive.

Example no. 2, how do you sort the folders? Yeah, it can be done,
but it's unintuitive, and the result is a bit awkward (the system
folders--Inbox, Outbox, etc.--are sorted, too). It's also very
different from most other email software where folders are
auto-sorted.

I appreciate TB gives me the power to control exactly how my folders
should be lined up, but I think auto-sorting should be default, or
at least there should be an option to allow auto-sorting.

Example no. 3, filters. TB touts its filtering function as the best,
and it's indeed the most powerful among all I've tried. But I
couldn't understand why it force you to move messages to a folder
when the filter is applied. I just couldn't figure out a way to set
up a filter that could be applied to various folders without moving
the messages (to assign colors to some messages, e.g.).

I could be prooved wrong, but I think people attracted to TB are
mostly looking for their 2nd (3rd, etc.) email clients. Those who
touch computer or use the Internet for the first time would mostly
go for the freebies already on their system. Therefore, to
understand their expectation is important. Unless you're MS, you
can't force people to learn your tricks.

Also important, is for TB to provide a better mail import
capability. It takes too much trouble to switch over from OE5 (the
wizard works, but needs too much hand tweaking), and it's a big
hurdle for many people.

ML>> There're some other users who don't want to learn anything new,
ML>> and I think they would be better served by OE or its peers.

> True. But without even going into TB!'s more powerful
> features, it's default, very basic, design philosophy of control
> over what one is sending to the recipient is a great one. What you
> see before you hit the send button being what the recipient will
> get, combined with effective means to optimize this are
> distressingly rare qualities among the clients out there incl

Re: 'Deleting messages' message

[Ming-Li]

Hi Norman,

>   I haven't set up any kill filters to delete messages, so what is
>   it deleting? Does it just mean it's deleting them from the
>   server after it's downloaded them?

Yes, if you didn't enable the "leave mail on server" option.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Deleteing messages in one shot

[Ming-Li]

Hi Januk,

>   I seem to remember that you had to enter some string at some
> point. Maybe it is for searches.  I don't know.  But searching for
> the letter 'e' is less ambiguous than searching for a blank
> string.  So, since TB doesn't do whole word searches only, I use
> 'e' instead of wildcards.  Try hitting Ctrl-F and searching for a
> blank string.  It doesn't work so well.

You're right, the search tool in TB doesn't allow a blank search
string. It will use the last search term in that case. But in
filters, blank filter string is allowed, and I like to think that TB
would perform a little faster if it doesn't have to do the search at
all.

Thanks for clearing it up. (And thanks to Allie, too.)

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

'Deleting messages' message

[Norman Lamont]

Hello TBUDL,
 
  One thing I've noticed about the Bat! during the 
evaluation period  that worried me a bit was that when it downloads my 
email from the  POP3 server, it says it's getting each message e.g. 4 
of 12, but  also keeps saying 'Deleting message'
 
  I haven't set up any kill filters to delete messages, 
so what is it  deleting? Does it just mean it's deleting them from the 
server after  it's downloaded them?
 
-- Best regards, Norman  

--
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--


You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: Filter (and Template) to Foward All Mail In a Folder To One Address?

[Ming-Li]

Hi Alex,

> I want to set up a TB filter (and, I assume in TB, probably a
> template) forward all of the emails (including full headers, which
> as far as I can see means using only the HEADERS and TEXT macros)
> in any folder to a single email address.

I think the terms you use make your intent unclear. What do you mean
by "forward[ing] all of the emails in any FOLDER to a single EMAIL
ADDRESS"? Let me try to decipher and answer your question:

1. If you want a "manual" filter (or maybe "read" filter) that would
forward all the messages already sorted into your various folders,
to another email address that isn't yours or isn't managed by TB
(this makes the least sense to me, but it's closest to your literal
meaning), then create an empty filter (a filter with no filter
string) associated with the action "forward to" or "redirect to".

One problem, though. The "move to folder" has to be changed manually
each time you apply the filter to a different folder if you don't
want the messages to be moved.

2. If you want a "incoming" filter that auto-forward all incoming
messages to an address, then same answer as 1. Remember to move the
filter to top and check the "continue processing with other filters"
option should you want the messages to be handled by other filters.

3. If the email address is yours and is managed by TB, then make the
filter to copy/move them within TB is easier.


-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (No Subject)

[Curtis]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:32:32 +0700, tracer wrote:

t> At present the Bat seems to work, I think the pgp was in the way.
t> It obviously couldnt find my mailfolders so I uninstalled, reinstalled
t> and then I had all the mail back... Long live saving data NOT in the
t> registry, at least I didnt lose my passwords for the logons...

Hehehe. Long live saving data IN the registry as well.  I'm
using the same installation of TB!, registry data and all since I bought
TB! over a year ago. This is after a fresh reinstall of NT4 and my
migration to Win2k which was a fresh, not an upgrade, install as well.

-- 
A.C. Martin  [ TB! v1.45 Beta/5 | Win2k Pro ]
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey

 "George Orwell was an optimist. "

-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: (No Subject)

[tracer]

Hello Jamie Dainton,
On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:54:40 +0100 GMT your local time,
which was Sunday, July 09, 2000, 11:54:40 PM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Jamie Dainton wrote:


> Hello Sashka,

> Sunday, July 09, 2000, 5:35:11 PM, you wrote:

S>> Hello,

S>> Sunday, July 09, 2000, 12:13:48 PM, you wrote:
t>>>   may I ask if anyone has tried the Bat with windows ME???
t>>>   I had problems shutting the Bat down, it doesnt want to and when
t>>>   sending a msg without a subject it seemed to me the question answers
t>>>   were the wrong way around.
t>>>   I will recheck later as I have a kind of minimal system at present.
S>> I was using TheBat! with betas of Windows ME. It was working ok
S>> without any problems.



> I  used  TB!  with Windows Me RC0 for about 14 days. It seemed to work
> OK.  The  only  problem was with PGP Business throwing a fit about it.
> Also  Freespace  didn't seem too happy. As I use my PC for playing way
> too  many  games I went back to unstable, neurotic, idiotic, pathetic,
> worrying Windows 98.

as I am using pgp tunneling to my server, I installed that and it
totally prevented me unde Me to go on the net, no problem under 98.
TNT2 didnt work properly, Norton doesnt work... Anyway, I will have
another look later at that no subject (sorry for that) what the menus
say popping up.
At present the Bat seems to work, I think the pgp was in the way.
It obviously couldnt find my mailfolders so I uninstalled, reinstalled
and then I had all the mail back... Long live saving data NOT in the
registry, at least I didnt lose my passwords for the logons...



Best regards,
 
tracer


-- 

Using theBAT 1.44 with Windows 98
mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am using FireTalk: 321338
ICQ: on request 
Website: www.phuketcomputers.com
Our special website hosting/mailservers are now operational



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org

Re: ZDNet Shareware Awards

[tracer]

Hello Jamie Dainton,
On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:57:05 +0100 GMT your local time,
which was Sunday, July 09, 2000, 11:57:05 PM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Jamie Dainton wrote:

(snip)
> It's  the old AOL syndrome. Let's make a product so simple only idiots
> would  want  to  use  it. Personally I hate html mail, and what really
> gets  on  my  nerves is M$ Outlook users sending me a plain text and a
> html copy of the mail.

But what it proves is that there is a distinct market for a well
working simple usable email client.

My customers wouldnt want all the bells and whistles, they want to
push buttons and get their mail and have it being sorted in the
easiest way, no complicated stuff.. if you want the average user to
pay for a more complicated program...

ote, I say average user, I like the power myself but its a damned big
market out there which are button pushers...



Best regards,
 
tracer


-- 

Using theBAT 1.44 with Windows 98
mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am using FireTalk: 321338
ICQ: on request 
Website: www.phuketcomputers.com
Our special website hosting/mailservers are now operational



-- 
--
View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com
To send a message to the list moderation team double click here:
   
To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message:
   
--

You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org