Re: Plain text by default?
On 02-01-2001 at 17:45:59GMT -0800 (which was 1:45 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello George, George Irregardless, the only time I posted was to help others on the list George with my knowledge. Therefor I'll just sit back and listen to your George loss. Bad attitude. Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 Why does Deanna keep slapping me across the face? -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 02-01-2001 at 16:22:13GMT -0800 (which was 0:22 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello George, George I'll stop signing my messages to the list with PGP. Sorry you feel George that you should address a new paid owner this way. I will keep it in George mind when shopping again. 1. We all have paid (unless those testing TheBat) 2. Nobody here forced you to buy 3. We don't get the money RITlabs does So your comment is WAY OFF the mark and personal. If you don't like it stay away!! Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 Yo mama's head is so short, she took a shower and got brain-washed. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hi there ... interesting thread... ;-) K I always thought it was 4 lines. - If you include a signature keep it short. Rule of thumb is no longer than 4 lines. Remember that many people pay for connectivity by the minute, and the longer your message is, the more they pay. Just one question: does the signature separator '-- ' also count as a signature line? Is my signature at the bottom 6 or 5 lines long (or 4 'cause there is a blank line that only needs 2 bytes g)? TIA. So short, Beat -- Using The Bat! 1.48f under Windows 95 4.0 Build 950 PGP public key available: Send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or get it on keyservers: 0x4E0B0777 (DH/DSS) -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
Hi Beat, On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:49:25 +0100GMT (02/01/2001, 18:49 +0800GMT), Beat Strasser wrote: BS Just one question: does the signature separator '-- ' also count as a BS signature line? BS Is my signature at the bottom 6 or 5 lines long (or 4 'cause there is BS a blank line that only needs 2 bytes g)? ROTFL ! -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.48g under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:49:25 +0100, Beat Strasser wrote these comments: BS Just one question: does the signature separator '-- ' also count BS as a signature line? LOL! AFAIK, no. BS Is my signature at the bottom 6 or 5 lines long (or 4 'cause there is BS a blank line that only needs 2 bytes g)? The purpose of the rule is not to be pedantic and split hairs. It's just a request for you to keep your signature short to prevent the wasting of bandwidth. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ __ TB! v1.49 Beta/1 | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication. iQA/AwUBOlHDdlfJ62ArBxfiEQJYpQCcDo+bebNySkhhAP52Kw4em9BzgUgAn3ED VT5JAc4W6ZXNTZK3j9QAdmt/ =o5/f -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
This message: 02/01/2001 11:09 GMT. Hello George, A reminder of what George ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed on: 01 January 2001 at 11:52:58 GMT -0800 GFS I doubt the extra 5k is killing anyone. If the moderators were to agree with you on that point then they would have to allow everyone the luxury of an extra 5k should they wish to modify their own sig to an unreasonable size. If he can send 5 kilobytes worth of signature then why can't I send 5 kilobytes worth of html would become an everyday argument. As Thomas said, most people pay for their connection by the minute. Part of the reason I don't subscribe to the mindless free for all that abound on most news groups. Americans are a very patriotic race. I would imagine they know the whole constitution inside out, so what is the point in persistently quoting it to them. Non American subscribers probably have no wish or reason to know so ditto, why keep quoting it to us. You have every right to your constitution but please, do as the moderators ask and respect the constitution of this list. GFS Therefor I'll just sit back and listen to your loss. Please don't do that, if you have a contribution to make then make it. You may have the answer that no one else has. For the sake of a smaller signature and a complete rewrite of the 4th amendment, leaving this list would be as much your loss as it would be to the person looking for the answer you may have. -- _ Best regards, Tony. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 S/N A27A5E65 Windows 98 ME 4.90 Build 3000 Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPkeyrequest -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello Tony, Tuesday, January 02, 2001, 3:48:47 AM, you wrote: TB As Thomas said, most people pay for their connection by the minute. TB Part of the reason I don't subscribe to the mindless free for all that TB abound on most news groups. This is no longer true. Bandwidth is not of much issue in 1st and 2nd World countries. -- Thawte authorized WOT Notary ICQ: 122492 "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed with PGP to allow source and content authentication by recipient. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 02-01-2001 at 07:11:51GMT -0800 (which was 15:11 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello George, George Bandwidth is not of much issue in 1st and 2nd World countries. Who says so !? There are people with dialup connections! And what about those who are on the move and checking the email from the Hotel as I have been for some weeks last year Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 "Attention all planets...we have assumed control." -Rush -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 02 January 2001 at 07:11:51 -0800 (which was 15:11 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote and made these points: TB As Thomas said, most people pay for their connection by the minute. TB Part of the reason I don't subscribe to the mindless free for all that TB abound on most news groups. GFS This is no longer true. It is true in all countries but the USA. The majority of list members are European. Now break it up fellas. George is doing what he can to truncate his sig (although it could use losing the bulky six line sign off it still sports). Let's call a truce. The point has been made. - -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone ... Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49 Beta/1 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOlH2RDnkJKuSnc2gEQJh3ACgl5L29D6F9Zq3U+C2+YTvNROOiIQAoPfJ qEAlw047ot33I6ih8L2i9THy =IigA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello TBUDL, On Monday, January 01, 2001 George and Marck taught me how to turn off the html-autoview. Thanks, George and Marck! It's easy to miss the obvious when submerged in TB's mysteries on a New Years morning! And now for a new question: I would like to know whether the moderators consider "meta-discussions" of the sort carried on for days in this thread to be on-topic? It seems to me that the list-system is in lack of something when a precise question and two precise answers are allowed to turn into an extremely long thread in which the majority of messages has got nothing to do with the subject of the thread - let alone with the workings of TB. I am very grateful indeed for the treasures of TBUDL, and I am also learning a lot about netiquette by following the "meta-discussions" on the list. But in my opnion (for all it's worth) it would be great to have something like a separate list for that kind of discussions - and I do not think that TBOT is it. Perhaps some would think that it would be to easy for those thought to violate the rules of TBUDL to escape retribution, if comments on the violation had to be made on another list. But would it not be more fit to leave it to the moderators to make that kind of comment - for instance when a violation had caused a sufficient amount of stir on "TBMETA"? Please forgive the impertinence of a newcomer. A happy New Year and best regards to all on the list, Jannik Lindquist The Bat! Ver. 1.49 Beta/1 Windows 98 4 10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Plain text by default?
Hello TBUDL, Is it possible to set TB to show the plain-text version by default where there is a choice? Best regards, Jannik Lindquist The Bat! Ver. 1.49 Beta/1 Windows 98 4 10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jannik, On 01 January 2001 at 14:28:55 +0100 (which was 13:28 where I live) Jannik Lindquist wrote and made these points: JL Is it possible to set TB to show the plain-text version by default JL where there is a choice? To do this, just turn off the "Options -- HTML Autoview" from the main TB menu. - -- Cheers, .\\arck [Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA ] [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [ PGP Key: http://www.silverstones.com/MarckPGP.asc ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49 Beta/1 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOlCQjTnkJKuSnc2gEQJYUgCgiIq6v1nLCni7BvW0hc2UujMoDpcAnR/J RJ5oiEjoZM9NAusgD/f64GHc =rnDe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
This message: 31/12/2000 14:41 GMT. Hello George, A reminder of what George ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed on: 01 January 2001 at 06:04:34 GMT -0800 GFS Options = HTML Auto view With all due respect George and I don't mean to be derogatory in any way but is it absolutely necessary to use such a large PGP signature and such a big multi line quote with every single message to the list? Especially when the actual content is so little. Also, what is the actual point of signing a message half way down? I know you only want to verify what you actually type but I personally find it very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in any of your postings. -- _ Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony. Using The Bat! 1.48h S/N A27A5E65 Windows 98 ME 4.90 Build 3000 Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPkeyrequest -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello Tony, Sunday, December 31, 2000, 6:55:27 AM, you wrote: TB With all due respect George and I don't mean to be derogatory in any TB way but is it absolutely necessary to use such a large PGP signature TB and such a big multi line quote with every single message to the list? TB Especially when the actual content is so little. Also, what is the TB actual point of signing a message half way down? I know you only want TB to verify what you actually type but I personally find it very hard to TB separate the wheat from the chaff in any of your postings. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- The signature is mine and it stays no matter what. As for the size of the PGP signature block, I have little control. Further, I have begun signing only the text I have typed for two reasons. One: It's all that really needs to be verified, and Two: TB's editor idiosyncrasy's. And finally, in the nicest way possible, I doubt the extra 5k is killing anyone. However, this is all a little off subject though and probably should have never been posted to the list. - - -- Best regards, Georgemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * === Thawte authorized WOT Notary ICQ: 122492 * * * === "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." - - -- the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed with PGP to allow source and content authentication by recipient. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Use PGP to protect your rights and authenticity Comment: KeyID: 0xFEC47185C7771D13 Comment: Fingerprint: 83F7 70DD 9606 5416 0F91 27BD 34BB 6729 iQEVAwUBOlDgAf7EcYXHdx0TAQExWgf+JUnTT+lhv2zpy1CVKKfV3fx3rxQNs70Z 3RbD1RWYW8bbJ+GusrB1qG4Td176LAMzQWCpcxy+heom/qENm2YxEZQAI8uTrsh+ 5k+2ED8GvUS+HQc0JnTe1jy+i58vxh2nyCvBjIJpWAwGrsPWkBRmRXgVlc5sJQ63 BG7Y9HxQOEbX3VCGFbJKCQmCrLUrLJGYx32mihtGPF3pL+a4y2MsQGOJhli/cS+s IFygLKBectl/e/7KPXWOwG367VSy7kIOaJfpX0DpQspVZWq1vFobY9VsnbZkFAJ9 Xfhzyv4SxBjmmNDKoVP+fAOvmYqKj6vnO0/xxHEJSuVwMw7Dhff3oQ== =VV5V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 01-01-2001 at 11:52:58GMT -0800 (which was 19:52 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" TB With all due respect George and I don't mean to be derogatory in any TB way but is it absolutely necessary to use such a large PGP signature TB and such a big multi line quote with every single message to the list? George The signature is mine and it stays no matter what. George As for the size of the PGP signature block, I have little control. George And finally, in the nicest way possible, I doubt the extra 5k is George killing anyone. However, this is all a little off subject though and George probably should have never been posted to the list. Hello George, IMHO PGP signing is OK for *important* stuff. The QA's on this list are hardly *that* important to get signed. And I think Tony has a point here. Moderators please... Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 7+3. Calvin 73. Hobbes -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Manfred! On Monday, January 01, 2001 at 9:17:04 PM you wrote: IMHO PGP signing is OK for *important* stuff. The QA's on this list are hardly *that* important to get signed. Doesn't matter in this case; everybody *has* to make up his opinion on signing or not on his own. Like the moderators I personally prefer *every* message to be signed - for various reasons, not to be stated here for saving bandwidth. - -- Dierk Haasis PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.48f Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Alone: In bad company. (Ambrose Bierce) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: To further and enhance security for everybody! iQA/AwUBOlDazfTo1oA8g8dLEQIKwACePgRpPk53wEq13fn7Um9fktT/sQsAoMva EE8QFxzar3bUtO81wK08OxzJ =1Erm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01 January, 2001, 3:29 PM, I saw Manfred's comments made on Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:17:04 +, and thought I'd add my $0.02 worth: George The signature is mine and it stays no matter what. This is a disturbing attitude to have. I'd assume that we write messages for others to read and if *anyone* has problems with our messages, we should take it very seriously, unless the complainant is writing from a terminal in a padded cell. If one person complains, then it's very likely that others, like myself in this case, also have a problem but are perhaps being less vocal about it. I've been pondering the issue and was about to say something on it, but Tony beat me to it. George As for the size of the PGP signature block, I have little George control. I grant you that. George And finally, in the nicest way possible, I doubt the extra 5k George is killing anyone. However, this is all a little off subject George though and probably should have never been posted to the list. There are two concepts here that you should consider. The first is that every byte counts and they eventually accumulate. The other is that if you're allowed a liberty, then everyone else should be granted the same liberties and we should be prepared to face the consequences of everyone taking such liberties. Let's deal with the 5k extra that shouldn't kill anyone. That extra 5k's per each of your message is sent to each and every member of this list. 5Kb's extra to 500 members equals 2.5MB's of extra, unnecessary information transfer across the network. That's for just one of your messages. What if everyone decides to have a signature like yours???!!! I also keep the list traffic on my hard drive and shudder at the thought of unnecessary space wastage because everyone decides to make their signatures longer than their messages. I have about 3 TBUDL/TBBETA messages here. 3 x 5kb is 150 MB. I'll leave the rest to your imagination. It's therefore not surprising, that this has been addressed in the RFC's netiquette guidelines which state that your signature should be no more than 6 lines long. This is more than adequate for you to convey the information you think is important enough to be transmitted with *each and every* message that you send. Your signature is 17 lines long and this doesn't include the PGP digital signature block. I am therefore requesting that for these lists, TBUDL and TBBETA, you cut down the length of your signatures and please realize that there are practical issues of wasted bandwidth behind such a request and that we merely take pleasure out of harassing and censoring your behaviour. ME IMHO PGP signing is OK for *important* stuff. The QA's on this list ME are hardly *that* important to get signed. ME And I think Tony has a point here. Moderators please... I personally pgp sign my messages because I'm a list moderator and also because of the potential nature of my posts, this one being a prime example. While we, the moderators, do agree that digitally signing posts to the list is probably unnecessary, we don't believe in stifling the memberships freedom in practicing message authentication. This is becoming an increasingly important issue in the internet community. Members are therefore free to digitally sign their messages. S/MIME signing is not allowed, since the S/MIME public key is included with every signature making each message unacceptably large for each post. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ __ TB! v1.49 Beta/1 | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication. iQA/AwUBOlDvb1fJ62ArBxfiEQLIkACfRGd60dxBA25pPVg+MOGSKGSKBqIAn17D cEGDydMy10bKHrYYR2B+iIxC =Nd+z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 01-01-2001 at 15:58:23GMT -0500 (which was 20:58 where I live) A. Curtis Martin wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello Allie, A. I personally pgp sign my messages because I'm a list moderator and also A. because of the potential nature of my posts, this one being a prime A. example. agreed. A. While we, the moderators, do agree that digitally signing posts to the A. list is probably unnecessary, we don't believe in stifling the this is what I meant. A. memberships freedom in practicing message authentication. This is A. becoming an increasingly important issue in the internet community. of course and agreed. A. Members are therefore free to digitally sign their messages. S/MIME A. signing is not allowed, since the S/MIME public key is included with A. every signature making each message unacceptably large for each post. unless testing S/MIME, which is still in its infancy in TB, isn't it? Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 "Is someone purring?" -- Tom Servo -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Allie, On 01 January 2001 at 15:58:23 -0500 (which was 20:58 where I live) A . Curtis Martin wrote and made these points: I endorse and second all comments that Allie has made here but must hasten to correct what I must assume to be a typo in this paragraph: ACM I am therefore requesting that for these lists, TBUDL and TBBETA, you ACM cut down the length of your signatures and please realize that there are ACM practical issues of wasted bandwidth behind such a request and that we ... do *not* ... ACM merely take pleasure out of harassing and censoring your behaviour. (This from a moderator with a 9 line signature, excused by the need for a disclaimer, a separator and a TB version identifier). - -- Cheers, .\\arck [Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA ] [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [ PGP Key: http://www.silverstones.com/MarckPGP.asc ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49 Beta/1 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOlD2PznkJKuSnc2gEQL3fQCZAZEsCupcxIOv3BD/j46rRXtBzlgAoMB2 O/SK3KY/ySRnUpUTw/VdxSmT =SA6I -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello A, Monday, January 01, 2001, 8:58:23 PM, you wrote: I also keep the list traffic on my hard drive and shudder at the thought of unnecessary space wastage because everyone decides to make their signatures longer than their messages. I have about 3 TBUDL/TBBETA messages here. 3 x 5kb is 150 MB. I'll leave the rest to your imagination. I also save a number of the messages from this list and the other lists I subscribe to, fortunately in most of them people do tend to be careful with the amount of lines in their sig. A It's therefore not surprising, that this has been addressed in the A RFC's netiquette guidelines which state that your signature should A be no more than 6 lines long. I always thought it was 4 lines. Well, that's what I've always kept any sig of mine to, indeed I've tended to ensure it's less than that. I honestly don't see the need for long sigs, when I see long sigs more than a couple of times it tends to grate. A I am therefore requesting that for these lists, TBUDL and TBBETA, you A cut down the length of your signatures and please realize that there are A practical issues of wasted bandwidth behind such a request and that we A merely take pleasure out of harassing and censoring your behaviour. I hope this happens but many of those with long sigs do tend to get extremely offended when asked to chop their sigs to a more reasonable length. -- Kevin -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 01-01-2001 at 21:27:27GMT + (which was 21:27 where I live) Marck D. Pearlstone wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello Marck, Marck ... do *not* ... ACM merely take pleasure out of harassing and censoring your behaviour. No need to correct, we all understood it right ;-) Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 Easy Credit Terms: Buy Now, Pay Forever! ...Satan -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Manfred, On 01 January 2001 at 21:22:29 + (which was 21:22 where I live) Manfred Ell wrote and made these points: A. Members are therefore free to digitally sign their messages. S/MIME A. signing is not allowed, since the S/MIME public key is included with A. every signature making each message unacceptably large for each post. ME unless testing S/MIME, which is still in its infancy in TB, isn't it? This was specifically banned for use on TBUDL and was only sanctioned for testing purposes on TBBETA. This was for the reasons stated, vis-a-vis that S/MIME signatures include the key and over inflate the post sizes by far to high a percentage. Slightly in Georges defence, and for the sake of those that didn't realize the difference, George uses his RSA key when signing whereas the majority of us use DH/DSS. An RSA signature is usually two or three times the size of a DH/DSS signature. Although I have an RSA key I don't use it for this reason. - -- Cheers, .\\arck [Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA ] [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [ PGP Key: http://www.silverstones.com/MarckPGP.asc ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49 Beta/1 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOlD5nTnkJKuSnc2gEQKVugCghvt82i7BR+8/nqo98n5eROuPHlcAoKK1 OK68LQNwo5lNZ9YxxCF1i6Kv =DFXB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
On 01-01-2001 at 21:41:49GMT + (which was 21:41 where I live) Marck D. Pearlstone wrote regarding the subject of "Plain text by default?" Hello Marck, Marck This was specifically banned for use on TBUDL and was only sanctioned Marck for testing purposes on TBBETA. This was for the reasons stated, Marck vis-a-vis that S/MIME signatures include the key and over inflate the Marck post sizes by far to high a percentage. I didn't know that. It's good you've repeated this here. Regards -- Manfred __ using TheBat 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 I am Descartes of Borg: I assimilate therefore I am -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I thought I'd comment on Kevin's contribution to the list, sent on Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:38:36 +: K I always thought it was 4 lines. Upon rechecking the RFC's (RFC 1855), you're right on this. I was mixing it up with an on-line netiquette guideline. Here's an excerpt that covers most of what we commonly request here: - Be brief without being overly terse. When replying to a message, include enough original material to be understood but no more. It is extremely bad form to simply reply to a message by including all the previous message: edit out all the irrelevant material. - Limit line length to fewer than 65 characters and end a line with a carriage return. - Mail should have a subject heading which reflects the content of the message. - If you include a signature keep it short. Rule of thumb is no longer than 4 lines. Remember that many people pay for connectivity by the minute, and the longer your message is, the more they pay. For the pedantic, we explicitly request that those who post for help include in their signatures information about their TB! version and what OS they're running, so the line/s used to convey this aren't counted. ;=) K I hope this happens but many of those with long sigs do tend to get K extremely offended when asked to chop their sigs to a more reasonable K length. Well, it's all about courtesy and maintaining the peace. Many with long signatures don't realize that it can be offending or annoying to others. This is what the list rules on posting style and conduct serve to address. It's just as necessary to enforce such guidelines as it is to enforce road traffic laws or rules of conduct in any social setting. If anyone is offended when such a request is made of them, then so be it. We will not condone breaches of the list rules of conduct. There's no reason to accept such behaviour and many reasons not to. - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ __ TB! v1.49 Beta/1 | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication. iQA/AwUBOlEGDFfJ62ArBxfiEQLFKQCg+YzEfaOINimGs1yM1VNbHdA2gcUAn2pU auEiiQ0g71tfFrrOvUtsHn3H =1uLm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello A., Monday, January 01, 2001, 12:58:23 PM, you wrote: ACM I am therefore requesting that for these lists, TBUDL and TBBETA, you ACM cut down the length of your signatures and please realize that there are ACM practical issues of wasted bandwidth behind such a request and that we ACM merely take pleasure out of harassing and censoring your behaviour. I'll stop signing my messages to the list with PGP. Sorry you feel that you should address a new paid owner this way. I will keep it in mind when shopping again. -- Best regards, Georgemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * === Thawte authorized WOT Notary ICQ: 122492 * * * === "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." -- the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed with PGP to allow source and content authentication by recipient. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello Allie, On Monday, January 01, 2001 @ 17:34:52 -0500 you wrote the following in regards to Plain text by default?: Allie Here's an excerpt that covers most of what we commonly request here: Allie - Be brief without being overly terse. [...] Allie - Limit line length [...] Allie - [...] subject heading which reflects the content [...] Allie - If you include a signature keep it short. [...] Can you direct me to the reference for these aforementioned rules as I would like to have them on file for other lists that I belong to. Thanks. -- Jan Rifkinson Ridgefield, CT USA Using The Bat! v1.48f PGP-Key 0x4C9CDF9D ICQ 41116329 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi George, On 02 January 2001 at 16:22:13 -0800 (which was 00:22 where I live) George F. Schoelles wrote and made these points: GFS I'll stop signing my messages to the list with PGP. That's not what was asked of you. It has been clearly stated by all but one respondent that we understood and condoned the use of PGP signing. Many of us do it. The question mark was over the length of *the rest* of your signature (which, BTW, remains unchanged). GFS Sorry you feel that you should address a new paid owner this way. GFS I will keep it in mind when shopping again. Hang on read my sig! [ Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] While this is the official TB User Discussion List, it is a private list, run by users *for* users. An "owners club" if you like. What we do here is nothing to do with RITlabs. And most members of this list are paid owners too. This is a list with rules. If you repeatedly flout those rules, eventually you're going to offend someone, and eventually a moderator will have to intervene to reenforce the list rules. I happen to know that this is the second time that the length of your signature has been mentioned here, so your surprise comes as some surprise :-). - -- .\\arck [Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA ] [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49 Beta/1 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOlElNznkJKuSnc2gEQIPZACcCO/0BT0j/Xg9ergmm19017TTIPUAnjGH KN4saArBNmUferjzkLxjSIQO =9pKb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
Hello Jan, On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, 19:19:00 h [GMT -0500] (which was 01:19 h [GMT +0100] where I live) you wrote: JR Can you direct me to the reference for these aforementioned rules JR as I would like to have them on file for other lists that I belong JR to. Thanks. http://www.landfield.com/rfcs/rfc-titles.html -- Best regards, Kari Jakobi The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 To obtain my PGP-Key send a message to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP-KEY_REQUEST PGP-KEY ID: 0x388CEBFF -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I thought I'd comment on Kari Jakobi's contribution to the list, sent on Tue, 2 Jan 2001 02:07:06 +0100: JR Can you direct me to the reference for these aforementioned rules JR as I would like to have them on file for other lists that I belong JR to. Thanks. KJ http://www.landfield.com/rfcs/rfc-titles.html Jan and others interested. Look at RFC 1855 specifically for this sort of information. Other links you can look at are: http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html http://www.isp-lists.com/email-list-netiquette/ http://www.our-kids.org/Archives/email_netiquette.html http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/dec99/pirillo1.htm The last links document has a nice statement at the end : Don't Rewrite the Rules You may be new to the electronic publishing game, and a fresh perspective is typically a positive trait. But don't get too far ahead of yourself. E-mail has been around for decades. Chances are, you're not going to rewrite the book on effective communication tactics. Just because a method may seem smart to you doesn't mean that it's electronically savvy. There's a reason this chapter was written: to stop you from making a potentially damaging or offending mistake. "When in doubt, take the safer route." I couldn't agree more. :=) - -- @~@@~@ | A. Curtis Martin [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA] | | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey | @_@ (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS) @_@ __ TB! v1.49 Beta/1 | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication. iQA/AwUBOlEr2lfJ62ArBxfiEQL/rQCgxcKT3i9r9rrfZE8n38+t9XKKvcQAoPVb 6xV8oKFMhRyXCmX6fC1Q8BLX =XHx/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: Plain text by default?
Hello Marck, Monday, January 01, 2001, 4:47:51 PM, you wrote: MDP This is a list with rules. If you repeatedly flout those rules, MDP eventually you're going to offend someone, and eventually a moderator MDP will have to intervene to reenforce the list rules. Irregardless, the only time I posted was to help others on the list with my knowledge. Therefor I'll just sit back and listen to your loss. Sorry you don't agree with me. -- Best regards, Georgemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * === Thawte authorized WOT Notary ICQ: 122492 * * * === "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." -- the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed with PGP to allow source and content authentication by recipient. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
Hello George others on TBUDL following this interesting thread, Monday, January 01, 2001, you stated regarding the length of your signatures and the practical issues of wasted bandwidth involved: GFS I'll stop signing my messages to the list with PGP. That would help me hold out until the Guadalajara wholesalers start selling hard disks again. (I've got 1.92 of space left at the moment, and no way to get a hold of a new drive, so I hope it's soon). GFS Sorry you feel that you should address a new paid owner this GFS way. Allie is simply fulfilling the responsibility he assumed when he accepted the role of TBUDL moderator. (Before that, he uas just a TB! user and contributor, just like the rest of us (albeit deeper into the works of TB! than most - but perhaps that's to be expected from a surgeon). If he hadn't asked you (as tactfully as possible, at that), Marck or Syafril would have. These policies were not devised to abuse you or anyone else, and I feel certain that most TBUDL subscribers appreciate their validity and are in agreement. Having paid for TB! (who hasn't?), doesn't give anyone the right to ignore the simple rules of netiquette (and part of common courtesy) that are upheld on TBUDL and elsewhere. Frankly, I wish ALL the lists I subscribe to were as well moderated as this one. GFS I will keep it in mind when shopping again. That sounds like a threat. Why pout! Each and every buyer is by far the party receiving the most benefit where using TB! is concerned. And all of us benefit from having access to TBUDL (and appreciate the way TBUDL is moderated). Entendido? GFS Irregardless, the only time I posted was to help others on the GFS list with my knowledge. And we are all highly appreciate of that. GFS Therefor I'll just sit back and listen to your loss. Please! anything but that. GFS Sorry you don't agree with me. George, you can be sure we all agree with you, even when you're wrong. Douglas -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Plain text by default?
Hi George, I've followed this thread, but at this juncture, I can't help putting in my 0.02 worth. My connection has recently improved by some 50% to avarage at around 1.5K/s. Receiving 100 to 200 messages per day, 5K more or less per messages does still make a difference over here. On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:22:13 -0800GMT (02/01/2001, 08:22 +0800GMT), George F. Schoelles wrote: GFS I'll stop signing my messages to the list with PGP. This was not asked of you - even though it was suggested to use another kind of key, because the modern keys are shorter (in terms of size in bytes). I personally appreciate your kind consideration, but I was hit over the head the other day when I mentioned that PGP-signing list postings wasn't necessary. It is the consent on this list that it is OK, and nobody will bash you for a PGP sig. ;-) GFS Sorry you feel that you should address a new paid owner this way. GFS I will keep it in mind when shopping again. Also kindly keep in mind that I have paid for the product as much as you have. I find a highly efficient user's mailing list in which people consider each others' bandwidth problems (and not everybody is on a 24/7 ADSL or leased-line connection, some even have to pay per minute!), a list where the list members have regard for each others' needs - which do not necessarily include a 17-line sig (not counting the PGP sig). I, for one, will keep the other list members' consideration in mind when shopping again. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.48f under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
