Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
Hello ztrader, 15. maj 2002, 2:21:51, you wrote: z The only way that could have happened is that TB called home z (*without* asking), reporting that address, and then sent a spam z email. This does not sound as though TB is respecting privacy at all. z I am VERY disappointed! What kind of message was it? AFAIK, on new installations, The Bat always displays the welcome letter, but that's built-in to the program, and you'll get it whether you're connected or not. -- Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/ ICQ: 26266467 [The Bat! v1.60d on Windows 2000 5.0.2195.Service Pack 2] Equality is not when a female Einstein gets promoted to assistant professor; equality is when a female schlemiel moves ahead as fast as a male schlemiel. -- Nyquist's Theory of Equilibrium Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi ztrader On 15 May 2002 at 17:21:51 -0700 (which was 01:21 where I live) ztrader graced us with these comments I recently moved TB to another computer, and in the process of setting it up, I get an *unsolicited* email to the account that I was setting up. The only way that could have happened is that TB called home (*without* asking), reporting that address, and then sent a spam email. Sorry NO. The Bat! does not do this. I have control over my own SMTP server and being paranoid I did check this. Just for information. I recently started to do some work for an ISP, they gave me a brand new email address. I then started to get SPAM that had been sent before the address was active. The address had not been published or used. The only way this could happen was some one use the domain name and add in names to that domain. Don't blame The Bat! for spam. - -- TTFN, ___ David | SecureBat! 1.60 d / iKey1000 | E-mailaholics | _| Win 2K Server 5.0.2195 SP2 | International | | We're saying together for the sake of the cats. | ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQE84ghj+Yrx5mUPRTQRAiEYAJsHx7HQCSj0HcmincG2ODxCLDT/CgCgnNf8 Y5spz+SC3fKLNsAxb/SqVCY= =t5nE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re[2]: TB phones home, sends spam?
Hello David Elliott, Wednesday, May 15, 2002, 2:04:01 AM, in a galaxy far, far away, David wrote: David Elliott I recently started to do some work for an ISP, David Elliott they gave me a brand new email address. I then David Elliott started to get SPAM that had been sent before the David Elliott address was active. The address had not been David Elliott published or used. The only way this could happen David Elliott was some one use the domain name and add in names David Elliott to that domain. David Elliott Don't blame The Bat! for spam. Spammers have a trick they now use, which works if they know the name of the default mail server of the ISP. They can send a message to whatever@mailservername and EVERYONE on the mailserver gets a message! The whatever can actually be anything they wish to type! This really sucks, but I don't know what can be done about it. -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike -- Get a PERMANENT 100MB capacity mailbox for ONLY $29.95/year. No more lost mail due to mailbox capacity restrictions. Access by POP3 or Webmail! Earn a FREE mailbox with their referral program. (HINT - You get $11.00 towards your mailbox for each referral who signs up!) Apply NOW at http://1110.runbox.com -- Tired of getting every virus that comes along? Get The Bat! Virtually immune to virus attack. Does not use the Windows Address Book! http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html -- Running The Bat! V1.60h on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, Spike wrote... Spammers have a trick they now use, which works if they know the name of the default mail server of the ISP. They can send a message to whatever@mailservername and EVERYONE on the mailserver gets a message! The whatever can actually be anything they wish to type! This really sucks, but I don't know what can be done about it. A common one is Undisclosed.Recipients@server name. I get about 7 of those a day. I'm guessing depending on the mail server if you set it to reject anything sent directly to the server name, it should drop those mails. After all... why would legitimate contacts be sending email to your server name, instead of your domain name? I'd have to experiment with that one on my test network. -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, Spike wrote... The undisclosed.recipients usually indicates a the message came from a list of BCC's. This is still indicative of spammer behavior however! I know... that is just a common one... others include house.owners... company.executives... loan.guides... things like that. -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, 3:57:19 PM, Jonathan Angliss wrote: A common one is Undisclosed.Recipients@server name. I get about 7 of those a day. I'm guessing depending on the mail server if you set it to reject anything sent directly to the server name, it should drop those mails. After all... why would legitimate contacts be sending email to your server name, instead of your domain name? I have a Selective Download filter that kills all messages addressed to the server name (the filter is '@server.name'), and this gets rid of a lot of spam. Julian -- Using The Bat! v1.60i on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re[2]: TB phones home, sends spam?
Hello Jonathan Angliss, Wednesday, May 15, 2002, 9:57:19 AM, in a galaxy far, far away, Jonathan wrote: Jonathan Angliss A common one is Undisclosed.Recipients@server name. I get about 7 Jonathan Angliss of those a day. I'm guessing depending on the mail server if you set Jonathan Angliss it to reject anything sent directly to the server name, it should drop Jonathan Angliss those mails. After all... why would legitimate contacts be sending Jonathan Angliss email to your server name, instead of your domain name? I'd have to Jonathan Angliss experiment with that one on my test network. The undisclosed.recipients usually indicates a the message came from a list of BCC's. This is still indicative of spammer behavior however! -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike -- Get a PERMANENT 100MB capacity mailbox for ONLY $29.95/year. No more lost mail due to mailbox capacity restrictions. Access by POP3 or Webmail! Earn a FREE mailbox with their referral program. (HINT - You get $11.00 towards your mailbox for each referral who signs up!) Apply NOW at http://1110.runbox.com -- Tired of getting every virus that comes along? Get The Bat! Virtually immune to virus attack. Does not use the Windows Address Book! http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html -- Running The Bat! V1.60h on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
Hi, Jonathan Angliss wrote in msgid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : The undisclosed.recipients usually indicates a the message came from a list of BCC's. This is still indicative of spammer behavior however! I know... that is just a common one... others include house.owners... company.executives... loan.guides... things like that. Not really. undisclosed.recipients is inserted by some mail servers when the To header had been left empty. Yes, this is possible. When talking directly to a mail server (aka MTA, mail transport agent) a sending server or application (aka MUA, mail user agent) submits a message's recipients separately from what we normal users see in the To or CC headers. This is part of what is commonly referred to as a message envelope. This is used for example when somebody sends a message to somebody via the BCC header. So if now the receiving server relays the message it puts in a To line (if there wasn't one before) with undisclosed.recipients. Regards, Markus -- Using The Bat! 1.60c under Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 6 Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
Hello Spike, On Wednesday, May 15, 2002 at 4:51:58 PM you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (at least in part): S Spammers have a trick they now use, which works if they know the S name of the default mail server of the ISP. They can send a S message to whatever@mailservername and EVERYONE on the S mailserver gets a message! Absolutely WRONG! Unless the MTA does not offer a 'global distributor list' is simply _IS NOT_ possible to send an e-mail to all users by only sending it to the server directly instead of one domain this server handles the mail for. The domain part of recipient address(es) a mail is sent to only affects what configuration a mail server uses to handle the mail. In other words: it decides if the mail has to be treaded as 'local' or 'remote' on basis of the domain part (everything after '@', no matter is 'domain only' or 'full qualified domain name' of the server) and where to look if this is a valid address. There's no way to tell an MTA _in general_ to deliver mail to _all_ known local recipients. S The whatever can actually be anything they wish to type! So I'd only need to send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and _every_ user on this system would get it? Stupid! In best case it will only delivered to you, but it might even be possible not even this will happen but the mail bounces if e.g. 'candw.ky' is configured on this server and delivery instructions exist, but 'perkey.candw.ky' is setup to be local but _non deliverable_ ... This is a very complex issue, but to all 'non-techies' out there: unless you're ISP / mail hoster does NOT setup a 'catch all' or 'global distribution account' there's no chance you will get all spam 'just because' ... Even if you're not mentioned in 'To:' and 'CC:' the mail has to be _directed_ to your address for you getting it. This is possible, because e-mail is delivered using an 'envelope' which is _completely_ independent from informations visible in mail header! This envelope is dropped with final delivery, that's why you can't see it, but it's present and used all the transport way ... And somewhere in this header your address appears or you woun't get the message. Period. To the 'The Bat! is phoning home and causing UCE' problem: TB! is _not_ phoning home (have tested this with network capture!) and it seems you (ztrader) in fact only got the 'welcome' message, hardcoded into the program. Ciao Pit -- Regards Peter Palmreuthermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Bat! v1.60j on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2) A non-vegetarian anti-abortionist is a contradiction in terms. Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Om 16:57 op woensdag 15 mei 2002, Jonathan Angliss: On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, Spike wrote... Spammers have a trick they now use, which works if they know the name of the default mail server of the ISP. They can send a message to whatever@mailservername and EVERYONE on the mailserver gets a message! The whatever can actually be anything they wish to type! This really sucks, but I don't know what can be done about it. this is not true. examine the headers from such messages and search for your emailadress. you'll find it. it's just not in the To: header. A common one is Undisclosed.Recipients@server name. I get about 7 of those a day. I'm guessing depending on the mail server if you set it to reject anything sent directly to the server name, it should drop those mails. After all... why would legitimate contacts be sending email to your server name, instead of your domain name? I'd have to experiment with that one on my test network. 'undisclosed.recepients' is what you get with some mailers when you only bcc people. no worries there. on properly configured mailservers, mail to random@mailserver is bounced. no question about that. on an upnote; ask your ISP to implement the ORDB blacklist in the mailsystem (http://www.ordb.org/). mine has, and the amount of spam has drastically reduced. Mrten. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 6.5.8ckt7 iQA/AwUBPOKCvktQMadp+KslEQKGnQCfWWhEeG3bfIDNCoOtMlvy62wZKOsAoIrs MccE4FQ21aLxl/3zt2eCds+M =UYxx -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
On 15 May 2002, 17:11, Peter Palmreuther wrote: There's no way to tell an MTA _in general_ to deliver mail to _all_ known local recipients. ~~~ In certain circumstances, this is possible -- but it requires the (probably unknowing) co-operation of the postmaster. For example, my MTA has a default group called everyone that contains every mail account on the server. This is typically used to broadcast admin messages. With default configuration, any mail addressed to everyone@... will be delivered to every user with an account on my mail server. FWIW, I've restricted the everyone address and any messages from outside my LAN that are addressed to everyone@... end up as an exception report in the postmaster's mailbox. However, any messages to everyone@... from inside my LAN are broadcast as the software vendors intend. HTH, -- Geoff Lane Cornwall, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Using The Bat! v1.60c on Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 6 Winamp currently playing Queen - Crazy Little Thing Called Love Psychoceramics ... the study of crackpots. Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re[2]: TB phones home, sends spam?
On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, 9:11:30 AM, Peter Palmreuther wrote: PP To the 'The Bat! is phoning home and causing UCE' problem: TB! is PP _not_ phoning home (have tested this with network capture!) and it PP seems you (ztrader) in fact only got the 'welcome' message, PP hardcoded into the program. Thanks much for the explanation for how it got there. My confidence in TB privacy protection has gone back up. :-) It might be better if there was a mention of this in the 'welcome note', to take care of the worries of us paranoid people. ztrader Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
TB phones home, sends spam?
I recently moved TB to another computer, and in the process of setting it up, I get an *unsolicited* email to the account that I was setting up. The only way that could have happened is that TB called home (*without* asking), reporting that address, and then sent a spam email. This does not sound as though TB is respecting privacy at all. I am VERY disappointed! ztrader Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Om 2:21 op woensdag 15 mei 2002, ztrader: The only way that could have happened is that TB called home (*without* asking), reporting that address, and then sent a spam email. This does not sound as though TB is respecting privacy at all. I am VERY disappointed! if you are referring to the 'welcome to thebat!' or-something like that message that is in your inbox after you install thebat, you're jumping to conclusions. there is nothing to stop the installer from adding a friendly welcome- message to your inbox, is there? don't worry, your mail-address is still safe (well, it was until you used it on this public mailinglist *evil grin*) Mrten. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 6.5.8ckt7 iQA/AwUBPOGrHktQMadp+KslEQI64ACeJA7G+aZgG5ZJWPPkP6t/ivsXgc8AoMR7 eO2VOVOt4NYq/vaJE+Mav9jj =on5o -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
Re: TB phones home, sends spam?
Isn't such an email built into most all mail programs? OE certainly does it, and I also seem to recall that Netscape did. I always assumed it was triggered from *within* by the installation of the program. Elaine Hello ztrader On Tuesday, May 14, 2002, you wrote I recently moved TB to another computer, and in the process of setting it up, I get an *unsolicited* email to the account that I was setting up. The only way that could have happened is that TB called home snip Current Ver: 1.60k FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://bt.ritlabs.com
