Re[2]: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Ben Kennish

Hi David,

On Friday, June 7, 2002, 5:08:15 PM, you wrote:
David Talking about bandwidth: please don't post HTML-messages.

I have never understood this complaint of HTML messages.

I am not an admirer of HTML messages (although sometimes I think I
would like to be able to make text bold etc without using *s or
whatever).  But surely HTML messages are horrid because they are slow,
and a security risk?

Nowadays, I doubt many people are using anything less than a 28.8kbps
modem and that can handle actually downloading HTML fine.  I mean come
off it - its 10K.

:S

--

Ben Kennish
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re[3]: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Britt Malka

Dear Ben,
Monday, June 10, 2002 at 10:07:09 AM you wrote:


BK Nowadays, I doubt many people are using anything less than a 28.8kbps
BK modem and that can handle actually downloading HTML fine.

For me the problem is not the modem. We have ADSL. But I like to keep
my messages, not all of course, but a lot of them, and then it takes
up a lot of un-necessary space when there is a message.htm fil
attached.


-- 

Kind regards,

Britt Malka

 |\/|
 | \__/ | 
 \/\/ 
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  \\  //  
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... I appreciate the romantique gesture :-)

... www.malka.it - www.malka.dk - www.supermalka.dk ...

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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread David van Zuijlekom

Hello Ben,

On Monday, June 10, 2002 at 09:07:09 +0100, you wrote concerning 'The
Bat! Upgrades.':
...
 I have never understood this complaint of HTML messages.

I don't feel like going to debate about this, so if you want the pro's
and con's of HTML messages look in the archives. This topic has been
covered enough.

-- 
Best regards,
 David

** VirusScan:  MS Windows found. Delete? (Y/y) **

[TB! 1.60q] [Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2]
  [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM]



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Re[3]: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Robert D.

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Recently, Ben Kennish squawked:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Nowadays, I doubt many people are using anything less than a 28.8kbps

Hi -- FWIW, at this moment, I connected at 21.6 . Yesterday was  19.2 .

No cable, no DSL out here in rural Appalachia sigh

- --

Bye Now,
Robert  D.

Public Key located at:
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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Allie C Martin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Ben Kennish [BK] wrote:
...
BK I have never understood this complaint of HTML messages.

BK I am not an admirer of HTML messages (although sometimes I think I
BK would like to be able to make text bold etc without using *s or
BK whatever). But surely HTML messages are horrid because they are
BK slow, and a security risk?

Just remember that when you send HTML, you often force the recipient
to view the message in fonts and font sizes the recipient doesn't
prefer or just finds plain difficult to read. I'm subscribed to a list
where many of the participants post using HTML. I usually find the
fonts used in the HTML formatting too small to read. I'm quite sure
this is because I am running a 1600x1200 resolution.

TB! isn't a browser and you can't just go into it's settings and
optimize the font sizes when viewing the HTML messages where the font
and font sizes have been defined as they usually are. I'm sure you've
also visited web sites where even increasing the font size doesn't
help much and you have to squint (*bad web page design*).

With HTML mail, you take away the control from the recipient!! I think
this is just as big a problem as bandwidth issues.

TB!'s ability to strip the text out and present a plain text version
to me is a godsend, or else I'd find it really difficult to read the
messages from that list. Of course, asking that they not post in HTML
would likely cause reactions like what's that guys problem anyway?
as I've witnessed in the past. It's not surprising that they post
viruses so often as well. These behaviours go hand in hand and stem
from a common problem  just ignorance. The person doesn't realise
there's a problem with what they do. I know I may step on some toes
here but it's true. :-)) sigh

I'm not saying that HTML messages don't have a place but reconsider
carefully why you're sending it and that taking away the recipient's
control is worth the benefits. I'm sure those situations exist and the
HTML formatted newsletters are always readable and well done. However,
being able to enbolden the text is just not one of them. If I could
just show you some of these messages I have, you'll be *immediately*
convinced. A lot of emboldening and underlining it done, but I can't
read the messages because the font sizes are usually so small!! :-)

- --
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RE: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Weaven, ChristopherX

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Ben Kennish [BK] wrote:
...
BK I have never understood this complaint of HTML messages.

BK I am not an admirer of HTML messages (although sometimes I think I
BK would like to be able to make text bold etc without using *s or
BK whatever). But surely HTML messages are horrid because they are
BK slow, and a security risk?

Just remember that when you send HTML, you often force the recipient
to view the message in fonts and font sizes the recipient doesn't
prefer or just finds plain difficult to read. I'm subscribed to a list
where many of the participants post using HTML. I usually find the
fonts used in the HTML formatting too small to read. I'm quite sure
this is because I am running a 1600x1200 resolution.

TB! isn't a browser and you can't just go into it's settings and
optimize the font sizes when viewing the HTML messages where the font
and font sizes have been defined as they usually are. I'm sure you've
also visited web sites where even increasing the font size doesn't
help much and you have to squint (*bad web page design*).

With HTML mail, you take away the control from the recipient!! I think
this is just as big a problem as bandwidth issues.

TB!'s ability to strip the text out and present a plain text version
to me is a godsend, or else I'd find it really difficult to read the
messages from that list. Of course, asking that they not post in HTML
would likely cause reactions like what's that guys problem anyway?
as I've witnessed in the past. It's not surprising that they post
viruses so often as well. These behaviours go hand in hand and stem
from a common problem  just ignorance. The person doesn't realise
there's a problem with what they do. I know I may step on some toes
here but it's true. :-)) sigh

I'm not saying that HTML messages don't have a place but reconsider
carefully why you're sending it and that taking away the recipient's
control is worth the benefits. I'm sure those situations exist and the
HTML formatted newsletters are always readable and well done. However,
being able to enbolden the text is just not one of them. If I could
just show you some of these messages I have, you'll be *immediately*
convinced. A lot of emboldening and underlining it done, but I can't
read the messages because the font sizes are usually so small!! :-)
Hi all.
I started this thread and caused the HTML problem. I've just changed the
settings in Outlook and this should now be HTML free!? Can you please
confirm that I've been successful?
Also, 1.60q has already hung on me a couple of times! Especially when going
into sorting office. Any ideas why?
Thanks all.
Chris.


- --
 -=Allie C Martin=-
List Moderator | TB! v1.60q | Windows XP Pro
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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Allie C Martin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Weaven, Christopherx [WC] wrote:
...
I almost didn't find your text below since none of the original
message was presented as a quotation and you appended your text right
at the end of mine.

moderator

Anyway, appropriate trimming of text is a strict rule on this list. It
makes reading messages a lot easier and most of all, makes the
messages smaller and easier to download for those who pay a lot for
their connections which are slower.

/moderator

WC I started this thread and caused the HTML problem. I've just
WC changed the settings in Outlook and this should now be HTML free!?
WC Can you please confirm that I've been successful?

Yes, you have been. It's just that you need to tidy up the formatting.
Text from the original message needs to made distinctly different from
yours through prefixing. There should be a setting in Outlook to
achieve this.

WC Also, 1.60q has already hung on me a couple of times! Especially
WC when going into sorting office. Any ideas why?

I pass on that one. I don't know what would cause a hang while going
into the filters configuration panel. :-/

- --
 -=Allie C Martin=-
List Moderator | TB! v1.60q | Windows XP Pro
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RE: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Weaven, ChristopherX

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Weaven, Christopherx [WC] wrote:
...
I almost didn't find your text below since none of the original
message was presented as a quotation and you appended your text right
at the end of mine.

moderator

Anyway, appropriate trimming of text is a strict rule on this list. It
makes reading messages a lot easier and most of all, makes the
messages smaller and easier to download for those who pay a lot for
their connections which are slower.

/moderator

WC I started this thread and caused the HTML problem. I've just
WC changed the settings in Outlook and this should now be HTML free!?
WC Can you please confirm that I've been successful?

Yes, you have been. It's just that you need to tidy up the formatting.
Text from the original message needs to made distinctly different from
yours through prefixing. There should be a setting in Outlook to
achieve this.
Hi Allie,

It was indented on my screen, but when it came back through to me, it
appeared to have lost the formatting. :-(

Should be better this time!?

I tried using the prefixing, but I use Word to format my messages. The
reason for this is that I include a lot of URL's in my mails. Instead of
putting in a full address, I just add a short piece of text, i.e. The Bat!
instead of http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html;, therefore I can
blend it into my sentences. Therefore, I've used the indent feature instead.

Apologies to everyone for causing problems so far, I just wish I could use
The Bat! to access my home e-mail here at work rather than having to use my
work address and Outlook 2000!

Thanks and further apologies,

Chris.


WC Also, 1.60q has already hung on me a couple of times! Especially
WC when going into sorting office. Any ideas why?

I pass on that one. I don't know what would cause a hang while going
into the filters configuration panel. :-/

- --
 -=Allie C Martin=-
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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Marck D Pearlstone

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi ChristopherX,

@10 June 2002, 06:54:09 -0700 (14:54 UK time) Weaven, ChristopherX
wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Yes, you have been. It's just that you need to tidy up the formatting.
 Text from the original message needs to made distinctly different from
 yours through prefixing. There should be a setting in Outlook to
 achieve this.

 It was indented on my screen, but when it came back through to me,
 it appeared to have lost the formatting. :-(

 Should be better this time!?

No. The formatting doesn't survive.

 I tried using the prefixing, but I use Word to format my messages.

Aha. That's probably why it's going so wrong.

 The reason for this is that I include a lot of URL's in my mails.
 Instead of putting in a full address, I just add a short piece of
 text, i.e. The Bat! instead of
 http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html;, therefore I can blend
 it into my sentences. Therefore, I've used the indent feature
 instead.

That won't work without the dreaded HTML to carry to formatting over.
Even then it's not guaranteed.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.60q-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-10 Thread Allie C Martin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Weaven, Christopherx [WC] wrote:
...
WC Should be better this time!?

No. It has lost it again this time, as you can well see. :-(

The formatting is the same as your last message, over-quoting and all.
There's no need to include my signature and the lists footers in your
replies to the list.

WC I tried using the prefixing, but I use Word to format my messages.

Oh dear. I can't tell you not to use it, but as you can see it causes
problems which isn't what you want, I'm sure. :-/

WC The reason for this is that I include a lot of URL's in my mails.
WC Instead of putting in a full address, I just add a short piece of
WC text, i.e. The Bat! instead of
WC http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html;,

That's HTML. You're now trying to send plain text where you have to
include the full URL's.

WC therefore I can blend it into my sentences. Therefore, I've used
WC the indent feature instead.

But it doesn't appear in your plain text messages.

WC Apologies to everyone for causing problems so far, I just wish I
WC could use The Bat! to access my home e-mail here at work rather
WC than having to use my work address and Outlook 2000!

Outlook 2000 would work better if you use it's internal editor instead
of Word. Word is for word processing and all you wish to do for e-mail
is write some plain text. It seems like overkill to me, and even
moreso, it doesn't work well since the formatting you wish to convey
isn't transmitted when you send plain text which is what you would be
sending in the majority of your e-mail messages.

- --
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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-08 Thread Peter Meyns

Hi Marck,

on Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:17:38 +0100GMT (07.06.02, 18:17 +0200GMT here),
you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

 Ps. How many people are on this distribution list?

MDP About 700.

MDP moderator
MDP Very few of whom like receiving HTLM mail. ;-)
MDP /moderator

Who is that?? SCNR ;-)
-- 
Cheers
Peter

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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-08 Thread Dwight A Corrin

On Friday, June 7, 2002, 11:08:15 AM, David van Zuijlekom wrote:

 1. Can there be a way of installing each upgrade as patch rather
 than as a whole new program and then offer the whole program
 separately? Being on a dial-up and with all the updates about at
 the moment, I think some people can benefit.

 No. When there is a new version you can only download the whole
 package or just the executable (from the beta site).

It is possible that is his complaint. I've only seen Q as a full
installation, and seem to recall that some of the Ns were that way as
well. Just the executable would be a help.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.60i on Windows XP version 5,1




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The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-07 Thread Weaven, ChristopherX








Hi,



Im new to this QA thing for TB!, but now I know about it, I keep thinking
of questions.




 Can
 there be a way of installing each upgrade as patch rather than as a whole
 new program and then offer the whole program separately? Being on a dial-up
 and with all the updates about at the moment, I think some people can
 benefit.
 When
 I installed the last upgrade, my registration key didnt work. Is there a
 way of installing the upgrade without causing key problems?




Until my next question,



Chris.



Ps. How many people are on this distribution list?








Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-07 Thread David van Zuijlekom

Hello ChristopherX,

On Friday, June 7, 2002 at 08:20:20 -0700 , you wrote concerning 'The
Bat! Upgrades.':
...
 1. Can there be a way of installing each upgrade as patch rather
 than as a whole new program and then offer the whole program
 separately? Being on a dial-up and with all the updates about at the
 moment, I think some people can benefit.

No. When there is a new version you can only download the whole
package or just the executable (from the beta site).

Talking about bandwidth: please don't post HTML-messages.

 2. When I installed the last upgrade, my registration key didn't
 work. Is there a way of installing the upgrade without causing key
 problems?

I never had problems with upgrading and my registration keys. AFAIK
when you upgrade nothing changes in the registry so I don't know how
this could happen.

-- 
Best regards,
 David

** A pessimist is never disappointed. **

[TB! 1.60q] [Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2]
  [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM]



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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-07 Thread Marck D Pearlstone

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi ChristopherX,

@07 June 2002, 08:20:20 -0700 (16:20 UK time) Weaven, ChristopherX
wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 1. Can there be a way of installing each upgrade as patch rather
 than as a whole new program and then offer the whole program
 separately? Being on a dial-up and with all the updates about at the
 moment, I think some people can benefit.

No there isn't.

 2. When I installed the last upgrade, my registration key didn't
 work. Is there a way of installing the upgrade without causing key
 problems?

It should always work. You should *not* uninstall before upgrading.
The registration codes are held in the registry.

 Ps. How many people are on this distribution list?

About 700.

moderator
Very few of whom like receiving HTLM mail. ;-)
/moderator

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.60q-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
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HTML email (was: The Bat! Upgrades.)

2002-06-07 Thread Dave Gorman

Friday, June 7, 2002, 10:20:20 AM, ChristopherX wrote:

 I'm new to this QA thing for TB!, but now I know about it, I
 keep thinking of questions.

Chris, I know in another thread it was brought up that you are
using Outlook 2000. Give this a try to turn off the HTML emails.

Click Tools/Options, select the Mail Format tab. Select Plain
Text in the message format dropdown.

Do you know if the account you are mailing from is a POP account
or if it is going through an Exchange Server? I seem to remember
something about Exchange sending even Plain Text emails in
HTML, but perhaps I'm mistaken...

-- 
Dave
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Re: HTML email (was: The Bat! Upgrades.)

2002-06-07 Thread Thomas F

Hello Dave,

On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:42:25 -0500 GMT (07/06/02, 23:42 +0700 GMT),
Dave Gorman wrote:

DG Do you know if the account you are mailing from is a POP account
DG or if it is going through an Exchange Server?

I used TB with the Exchange Server at work. There is a switch that the
admin can use to allow or disallow POP access, I understand.

DG I seem to remember something about Exchange sending even Plain
DG Text emails in HTML, but perhaps I'm mistaken...

That's not correct, as I had asked all my collegues to turn off HTML
in their OL, and it worked. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-07 Thread David van Zuijlekom

Hello Mark,

On Friday, June 7, 2002 at 09:54:24 -0700, you wrote concerning 'The
Bat! Upgrades.':
...
DvZ Talking about bandwidth: please don't post HTML-messages.

 Actually, I didn't realize you could do this with TB without
 explicitly attaching a file.

I didn't say you can did I? Because it's not possible with TB!.

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Best regards,
 David

** Kids-They're not sleeping, they're recharging! **

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Re: HTML email (was: The Bat! Upgrades.)

2002-06-07 Thread Luigi Rosa

Hello Dave,

DG Do you know if the account you are mailing from is a POP account
DG or if it is going through an Exchange Server? I seem to remember
DG something about Exchange sending even Plain Text emails in
DG HTML, but perhaps I'm mistaken...

That  depends  on how you configure the Internet Mail Connector: you can also
tell Exchange to send out every mail in plain text.



Ciao,
luigi

Using The Bat! v1.60q on Windows 2000
5.0 Build 2195
Service Pack 2

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Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

2002-06-07 Thread FW for Angel


 --- Weaven, ChristopherX / Freitag, 07.06.2002, 17:20:20
The Bat! Upgrades.

This is a forwarded message
From: Angel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, June 7, 2002, 7:50:54 PM
Subject: Will someone please post this in TBUDL for me? TIA Re: The Bat! Upgrades.

===8==Original message text===
Hi Chris,

 2. When I installed the last upgrade, my registration key didn't
 work. Is there a way of installing the upgrade without causing key
 problems?

Upon installing/upgrading earlier versions of TB!, time and time again
I found that it was not registered once the installation/upgrade
finished.
*IF* this is what you are referring to, all you need to do is locate
the email which contains your registration key (sent to you upon
registration), click on it (you don't need to open it in a separate
window...just click on it as if you were reading it...), THEN: go to
HELP / ENTER REGISTRATION CODE. When the box comes up, your key and
everything EXCEPT the password should be in there. All you need to do
is enter your password and voila! It'll be registered again.

FWIW: I just upgraded from 1.53d to 1.60q, and did not have to enter
my registration #/code as I have had to do before. (And, IMHO, this
version is awesome! VERY different, MUCH more friendly and easier to
use. :) )

Blessings and light,
~~~Angel

-- 

Friday, June 7, 2002 10:42:32 AM
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