Re: [Patch] New item to the "Migrating to OpenBSD" guide

2015-06-30 Thread lists
> But you’ve done nothing but calling me names nonstop,

I owe you an apology then, and the developers and users who may have
read my ramblings.

> then complaining when people do the same to you. You’re a hypocrite,
> but you clearly don’t realize that, because you keep saying that
> “you’re cool” and “you don’t want to go further” while doing totally
> the opposite.

So calling names is bad and provokes the same, exactly why I was
avoiding reading these parts and intentionally not responding to
the insults targeted at me.

Last night was too late for me, sorry. I thought I finished posting too
and Marc tempted me to explain myself.

> There is an official FAQ especially targeted to Linux users, I am a Linux 
> user, I found some difference between the systems which is not in the FAQ, I 
> thought it could be useful to add a line about it. Period. If that difference 
> is better or worse, I don’t discuss it, only you do.

Most have used Linux at some point, I did too. Comparing a
re-install & rolling release distributions, there is a different
methodology to keep up to date.

I was trying to suggest the whole time that following snapshots
installation and keeping packages updated is the easiest way to achieve
the Linux like rolling release and it does not involve any
recompilation and is fairly easy and straight forward process ideal for
a newcomer or Linux user trying out OpenBSD fresh.

This gives a very low overhead always current state of both base OS and
additional packages. In fact you may not have to install the ports tree
to stay up to date.

As for following stable and current, those would inevitable require
recompilation at some points, which has their own FAQ documents, so
there is no need to complicate the migration FAQ except point to these
FAQs.

Why did you have to mention binary patches at all? It is obvious there
are no such things, but does this belong in the migration FAQ? When
pkg_add -u (updating packages) is exactly the equivalent of a package
manager updates in Linux.

I felt the "con" point in your publication was a bit unfair and could
scare Linux people away, if they are neither advance in Linux, nor
FreeBSD and obviously new to OpenBSD.

In fact I consider that I got finally settled on a proper upgrade
system just when I got into OpenBSD on a daily basis some many years
ago.

> but treat me with a little respect.

OK, once again, I sincerely want to apologise for the disrespect. I
tend to forget not everyone has a thick skin like I've developed online.



Re: [Patch] New item to the "Migrating to OpenBSD" guide

2015-06-30 Thread Carlos Fenollosa
Anton, feel free to criticize the patch. But you’ve done nothing but calling me 
names nonstop, then complaining when people do the same to you. You’re a 
hypocrite, but you clearly don’t realize that, because you keep saying that 
“you’re cool” and “you don’t want to go further” while doing totally the 
opposite.

Please stop behaving like a jerk to total strangers and judging them. You still 
think that I have an agenda (?) and that I only want to stir the mailing list, 
when you’re actually the one who is contributing to that. You’ve completed your 
auto-fulfilled prophecy, but don’t put that on my shoulders.


I’m sorry if you felt like my contribution had any trolling intention, because 
I hope it’s clear I wasn’t. There is an official FAQ especially targeted to 
Linux users, I am a Linux user, I found some difference between the systems 
which is not in the FAQ, I thought it could be useful to add a line about it. 
Period. If that difference is better or worse, I don’t discuss it, only you do. 

Fuck the patch (is that what you wanted?), but treat me with a little respect.

I will not reply to this topic any further.

Thanks,
Carlos



> On 30 Jun 2015, at 03:02, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> 
>> Work on current is something that naturally occurs. It does not mean there
>> are enough resources to *duplicate that work* and do the same on stable.
> 
> Obvious facts make obvious points.
> 
> The snapshots for current and the security errata is good enough for
> me. It's easy and allows me to run current, which is closest following
> developers. If everyone personally did so, there would be less need for
> back-porting, but that's not my decision. I don't care about binary
> patches to stable, since current is easier for me.
> 
> Maybe somebody outside the project and known developers tried
> to make fuss out of nothing just to agitate developers and users. Maybe
> advising the blogger to try provide an unnecessary but annoying patch
> to the migration FAQ regarding binary patches that nobody actually
> needs that badly (and if they need there is a reputable source) was
> enough to annoy me.
> 
> This may have been totally imaginary publicity stunt, targeted at
> wasting time and energy. Or occasionally pushing into the OpenBSD
> developers constraints that I don't like either, precisely like you.
> Thanks for the explanation, anyway that was obvious to me.
> 
> Initially, I was annoyed that someone tried to call a "con" (negative
> feature) what is actually in my appreciation one of the best and
> easiest to use achievements, actually a "pro" feature that is
> snapshots and pkg_add -u. Simply because that person refused to learn
> this method to update exists and insisted to make it confusing for
> newcomers. There is no such imaginary "con" period.
> 
> This exactly upgrade path is still lacking in major Linux distributions
> and also in FreeBSD until some time, still sucks there though.
> 
> With OpenBSD it just works. Tremendously well for me for many years.
> Thanks you.
> 
> That same person tried to submit to the site a totally mangled wording
> of nonsense to the FAQ migration section which I think is simply
> ridiculous even after the so called re-work which was even more so
> funny.
> 
> Don't call names around without reading the details, please. I respect
> deeply the tremendous work done on the Perl ports infrastructure and
> think these are amazing and work great. For me it does. It can be made
> known to the newcomers as well. But no need to confuse them with some
> pidgin nonsensical twists in the overloaded migration FAQ.
> 
> For me the upgrade path works, I don't compile anything meaning I use
> a binary upgrade path. I upgrade from snapshots and then do pkg_add -u
> and like it. It works fast, and is efficient. I don't understand how
> someone tries to stick their head in the sand and insists other
> newcomers do the same by confusing them in the FAQ and giving them the
> notion of sticking with stable just to add more pressure to back-port,
> yuck.
> 
> I don't like somebody reducing chances of others to understand well the
> efficient upgrade that could be most appropriate for newcomers. And I
> don't like external parties agitating developers so that's why I
> responded initially.
> 
> Enough already, I'm cool and don't intend to waste my time with the
> attempts those ill advisers try to inflict any further.
> 
> My point was that the provided so far by OpenBSD is enough, good,
> sufficient and there is no need for any biased blog posts and poorly
> worded FAQ deterioration. Bloggers...
> 
> I don't care about what some Linux user tries to publish on the
> OpenBSD page since it is not worth annoying anyone over it any more.
> 
> Enough energy wasted on this subject already, why go further?
> Everything was and is good as it is.
> 
> If you want to address your dissatisfaction, please move up the thread
> to the original post. I am sorry I wasted my time with these
> outrageously insane