Re: newbie question about the Branched version

[Lukas Ruzicka]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:56 AM David  wrote:

>
> Does anything exciting happen during that time ?
>

Hello,
Ben has already answered the organisational stuff, but if you have asked
because you wanted to know
how safe it is to use the Beta version, my reply would be that it is
generally safe enough, but sometimes
a surprise can jump at you from behind the fence.

So, if you do not mind taking some risks, you can freely install and use
it. If you want to be on the safe side (you
need stability before anything) then stick with Fedora 33 and wait some
time after the Final release and then upgrade.

Lukas



> I assume there is a more detailed schedule used by the people
> doing all the work.
>
> David Locklear
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-- 

Lukáš Růžička

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Red Hat



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TRIED AND PERSONALLY TESTED, ERGO TRUSTED. 
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Re: newbie question about the Branched version

[Ben Cotton]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:56 PM David  wrote:
>
> I am assuming that at this stage in Fedora 34 development, that
> nearly everything being tested in Rawhide currently, that passes
> certain test, eventually ends up in Fedora 34 until Tuesday, April 20th
> at 1400 UTC.
>
What's in Rawhide will become Fedora Linux 35. F34 branched from
Rawhide in February and all F34 work has been done in the f34 branch
since then.

> It just seems like there is at least a 3 week gap on the advertised
> schedule between Beta Target and Final Freeze.
>
> Does anything exciting happen during that time ?
>
Packagers continue to update their packages as necessary. A lot of the
work at this point is (or at least should be) bugfixes. Once the Final
Freeze in place, packagers can continue to submit updates, but those
will be held until the release day unless they fix a release blocking
bug[1] or have been granted a freeze exception[2].

> I assume there is a more detailed schedule used by the people
> doing all the work.
>
The full schedule is published to Fedora People[3]. (Click the links
at the top to see tasks per functional area)


Does this help?

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_freeze_exception_bug_process
[3] https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-34/f-34-key-tasks.html

-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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newbie question about the Branched version

[David]

I am assuming that at this stage in Fedora 34 development, that
nearly everything being tested in Rawhide currently, that passes
certain test, eventually ends up in Fedora 34 until Tuesday, April 20th
at 1400 UTC.

It just seems like there is at least a 3 week gap on the advertised
schedule between Beta Target and Final Freeze.

Does anything exciting happen during that time ?

I assume there is a more detailed schedule used by the people
doing all the work.

David Locklear
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Re: newbie question - Fedora 34

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 11:04:36AM -0500, David wrote:
> or are the current Beta versions just "test-Betas" ??  or "rc-Betas"  for
> in-house use only ?

It is released. You should see an official email on the announcements list:

 https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org/

and a post on Fedora Magazine:

 https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-the-release-of-fedora-34-beta/

 
> Seems confusing.   Why not do an public Alpha release, or at least a quite
> Alpha release ?

I'm not sure how this would reduce confusion.

In the past, we did Alpha releases, but we generally found that the usage of
them was quite low compared to the amount of effort it takes to produce and
test them as release artifacts. Instead, we decided to put efforts towards
making Rawhide continuously be at the quality level we previously expected
for Alpha releases.

> Linux users who have never used Fedora or have little experience with
> Fedora need a better explanation as to what is so exciting about the 34
> release.  Phoronix is only covering the highlights, but a few YouTubers are
> explaining it, but they only do it in a virtual-machine for a very brief
> install review.

This really gets out of the scope of testing and into Mindshare, so I've
CC'd that list.

In addition to the Beta announcement, we also run Magazine articles like
https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-34-feature-focus-updated-activities-overview/,
More would always be welcome, of course.


> In my opinion, a good review would be to install on hardware and show
> actual real-world work being done with Fedora 34, such as a drawing in
> FreeCAD, and how the system differs from Manjaro Gnome 40, Gnome OS, Ubuntu
> 20.10, etc.

Yes, that would be great. I don't think we're going to do a comparative
review as an official Fedora Project release — better to stand on our own
merits and let others do the comparing — but I do always love to see videos
and articles like this (at least, when some thought has been put into it
rather than just being a listicle).

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: newbie question - Fedora 34

[Richard Ryniker]

>In my opinion, a good review would be to install on hardware and show
>actual real-world work being done with Fedora 34, such as a drawing in
>FreeCAD, and how the system differs from Manjaro Gnome 40, Gnome OS,
>Ubuntu 20.10, etc.

Perhaps for the actual release, but this sounds premature for a Beta
version, where significant changes are still possible.  Of course, one
might practice with a Beta in order to make creation of such material
easier once the real product is available.
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Re: newbie question - Fedora 34

[David]

Yes, I just saw the announcement via Phoronix.

Ironically, I do not recall seeing it on the listserve, unless I overlooked
it.


David Locklear

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 11:13 AM Luna Jernberg 
wrote:

> https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11192
> https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-the-release-of-fedora-34-beta/
>
> The actual real Beta came out earlier today
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 5:04 PM David  wrote:
>
>> Is the Fedora 34 Beta officially out in the wild ?
>>
>> or are the current Beta versions just "test-Betas" ??  or "rc-Betas"  for
>> in-house use only ?
>>
>> Seems confusing.   Why not do an public Alpha release, or at least a
>> quite Alpha release ?
>>
>>
>> Linux users who have never used Fedora or have little experience with
>> Fedora need a better explanation as to what is so exciting about the 34
>> release.  Phoronix is only covering the highlights, but a few YouTubers are
>> explaining it, but they only do it in a virtual-machine for a very brief
>> install review.
>>
>>
>> In my opinion, a good review would be to install on hardware and show
>> actual real-world work being done with Fedora 34, such as a drawing in
>> FreeCAD, and how the system differs from Manjaro Gnome 40, Gnome OS, Ubuntu
>> 20.10, etc.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David Locklear
>>
>>
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>
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Re: newbie question - Fedora 34

[Luna Jernberg]

https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11192
https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-the-release-of-fedora-34-beta/

The actual real Beta came out earlier today

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 5:04 PM David  wrote:

> Is the Fedora 34 Beta officially out in the wild ?
>
> or are the current Beta versions just "test-Betas" ??  or "rc-Betas"  for
> in-house use only ?
>
> Seems confusing.   Why not do an public Alpha release, or at least a quite
> Alpha release ?
>
>
> Linux users who have never used Fedora or have little experience with
> Fedora need a better explanation as to what is so exciting about the 34
> release.  Phoronix is only covering the highlights, but a few YouTubers are
> explaining it, but they only do it in a virtual-machine for a very brief
> install review.
>
>
> In my opinion, a good review would be to install on hardware and show
> actual real-world work being done with Fedora 34, such as a drawing in
> FreeCAD, and how the system differs from Manjaro Gnome 40, Gnome OS, Ubuntu
> 20.10, etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Locklear
>
>
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newbie question - Fedora 34

[David]

Is the Fedora 34 Beta officially out in the wild ?

or are the current Beta versions just "test-Betas" ??  or "rc-Betas"  for
in-house use only ?

Seems confusing.   Why not do an public Alpha release, or at least a quite
Alpha release ?


Linux users who have never used Fedora or have little experience with
Fedora need a better explanation as to what is so exciting about the 34
release.  Phoronix is only covering the highlights, but a few YouTubers are
explaining it, but they only do it in a virtual-machine for a very brief
install review.


In my opinion, a good review would be to install on hardware and show
actual real-world work being done with Fedora 34, such as a drawing in
FreeCAD, and how the system differs from Manjaro Gnome 40, Gnome OS, Ubuntu
20.10, etc.

Cheers,

David Locklear
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Re: newbie question

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 06:17:59PM -0600, David wrote:
> At this present state of Fedora 34 and Rawhide,
> 
> I see almost the same exact packages getting the same bumps in version
> numbers, with only
> the suffix  "fc34" and fc35" being the difference.
> 
> 1 )Does this just mean that the identical packages are stored on the
> server in a different directory ?
> 
> 2 )Are there any notable differences in the two products at this point ?

They are very similar, but will diverge quickly. 

> I assume that since there is Fedora 34 beta-freeze approaching, that
> Rawhide will in the coming week or weeks have differences that are more
> noticeable. Right ? If so, which ones ? the kernel ??  git
> versions of certain packages ?

Right, beta freeze starts tomorrow... so rate of change into f34 will
slow way down. 

Rawhide already has a 5.12 git snapshot kernel (where f34 has a 5.11.0
final). Tools and libraries will also keep being updated in rawhide,
which will mean even packages that are otherwise the exact same version
don't have the exact same output. 

> On a personal note, I will likely use Fedora 34 as my only operating
> system, and no longer use Rawhide, as
> I feel my brain-capacity has been maxxed-out, with whatever I had hoped to
> learn from the Rawhide experience.I will likely
> have several Fedora 34 SSD's with different DE's.
> 
> That all being said, for the time being I am sadly away from my computer,
> having to do things on my phone, and a Chromebook.

Sure, lots of people move off to the newly branched fedora at this time
and follow it out until release. Then re-upgrade to rawhide and repeat.
;) 

kevin


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newbie question

[David]

At this present state of Fedora 34 and Rawhide,

I see almost the same exact packages getting the same bumps in version
numbers, with only
the suffix  "fc34" and fc35" being the difference.

1 )Does this just mean that the identical packages are stored on the
server in a different directory ?

2 )Are there any notable differences in the two products at this point ?


I assume that since there is Fedora 34 beta-freeze approaching, that
Rawhide will in the coming week or weeks have differences that are more
noticeable. Right ? If so, which ones ? the kernel ??  git
versions of certain packages ?

On a personal note, I will likely use Fedora 34 as my only operating
system, and no longer use Rawhide, as
I feel my brain-capacity has been maxxed-out, with whatever I had hoped to
learn from the Rawhide experience.I will likely
have several Fedora 34 SSD's with different DE's.

That all being said, for the time being I am sadly away from my computer,
having to do things on my phone, and a Chromebook.

Cheers,

David
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Re: a newbie question about Rawhide

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Oct 08, 2020 at 08:01:15PM -0500, David wrote:
> I am excited to report that my Rawhide install finally borked, and now
> I am faced with either trying to learn how to fix it, or starting over from
> scratch.

I love this attitude!

> I had been away from my computer for about 24 hours, and my last memory
> was that I shut it down before I left. The motel maids might have
> inadvertently unplugged it in order to vacuum. I do not think I have any
> automatic updates set up.

Auto-applying updates on shutdown is now the default unless you uncheck it.
So that's possibly what happened.

> The problem appears to be simple. GDM is not working right. It displays my
> full name instead of my username, and there is no place to click after I
> type in the password. It does not recognize my password in GDM.

Showing your full name is expected behavior if you have a full name
configured in your passwd file. Can you hit enter?

> In System Recovery, I can get to root, but I do not know how to fix things
> there. Is that the same as the tty or is the system-recovery terminal a
> different way of accessing the ways to fix it.

If you can log in as root, my first approach woudl be to hit ctrl-alt-f6 to
bring up a text terminal and 

1. See if you can log in as yourself, and 
2. If that doesn't work, log in as root, use the `passwd username` command
   to reset your password, and try step 1 again

If that doesn't work, look in the log with journalctl


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: a newbie question about Rawhide

[Boyan Penkov]

Wanna try Crtl-Alt-F1 or F2 to switch to a virtual terminal, and get a 
login without X?


You'll then login to a session with no GDM, and be able to debug from 
there


Cheers!

On 10/8/20 9:01 PM, David wrote:

I am excited to report that my Rawhide install finally borked, and now
I am faced with either trying to learn how to fix it, or starting over 
from scratch.


I had been away from my computer for about 24 hours, and my last 
memory was
that I shut it down before I left.      The motel maids might have 
inadvertently unplugged
it in order to vacuum.     I do not think I have any automatic updates 
set up.


The problem appears to be simple.    GDM is not working right.    It 
displays my full
name instead of my username, and there is no place to click after I 
type in the password.

It does not recognize my password in GDM.

In System Recovery, I can get to root, but I do not know how to fix 
things there.   Is that the
same as the tty or is the system-recovery terminal a different way of 
accessing the ways to

fix it.

I would assume there is a simple way in terminal to bypass GDM.

Ironically, these kind of things always happen when I am stressed for 
time.


Worse case scenario, is I will install Fedora 33 nightly, but I do not 
have an easy simple way to make
the iso image.    Making that iso image had been on my list of things 
to do this week.


I still have my iso image USB stick from when I installed Rawhide 
about a month ago.


David Locklear

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--
Boyan Penkov
www.boyanpenkov.com

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a newbie question about Rawhide

[David]

I am excited to report that my Rawhide install finally borked, and now
I am faced with either trying to learn how to fix it, or starting over from
scratch.

I had been away from my computer for about 24 hours, and my last memory was
that I shut it down before I left.  The motel maids might have
inadvertently unplugged
it in order to vacuum. I do not think I have any automatic updates set
up.

The problem appears to be simple.GDM is not working right.It
displays my full
name instead of my username, and there is no place to click after I type in
the password.
It does not recognize my password in GDM.

In System Recovery, I can get to root, but I do not know how to fix things
there.   Is that the
same as the tty or is the system-recovery terminal a different way of
accessing the ways to
fix it.

I would assume there is a simple way in terminal to bypass GDM.

Ironically, these kind of things always happen when I am stressed for time.

Worse case scenario, is I will install Fedora 33 nightly, but I do not have
an easy simple way to make
the iso image.Making that iso image had been on my list of things to do
this week.

I still have my iso image USB stick from when I installed Rawhide about a
month ago.

David Locklear
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