Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead ??

[Ted Samsel]

-Original Message-
From: John P. Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Aug 8, 2007 12:28 AM
To: Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com, texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead ??


 
 There indeed is a cave north of Lost Maples, however TXDOT has put a
 permanent gate on the cave and it has no door for access.  Please do NOT
 attempt to breech the gate, I believe someone is actively working on getting
 access to the cave for cavers and research again.  Plus, one time not too
 long ago we were standing at the entrance watching to see if flood waters
 would flow in when the nearby land owner pulled up to talk to us and see
 what we were doing.  He told us you don't want to go into that cave
 anyways  we said why?  he responded cause when you come out, you'll have
 my shotgun pointing in your face.

I seem to remember that he wasn't laughing when he said that either..and
he wasn't particularly happy seeing us there looking at the
entrance...even though its in the state highway ROW. We were very polite to
him; but he was pretty clear that he didn't want cavers going into it. We
told him that we would honor his request.

And I think he said that he had caught someone digging around the gate one
day! We laughed and said that was a terrible thing to doand told him we
didn't of anyone who would do such a thing! But I don't think he believed
us. For some reason; we thought the digger in question was Joe Ivey.

Anyway; it had been raining a lotand we asked him how much water the
cave took in. And he told us that there had been floods where there was 6 to
8 feet of water over the road...and it all drained into the cave.


Back in that other life I mentioned (1974), the company I worked for also did 
boundary surveys for TPWD. We had a bit of trouble with the local ranchers when 
we survey Lost Maples. They were not happy. Some of our vehicles were mildly 
sabotaged. 

In this same other life, we had a monument to do a backsite on that was on the 
Briscoe Ranch for a State of Texas project (DOT?). Dolph Jr was Guv (I seem to 
recall) and we never got permission to cross the fence to hold a rod on on the 
monument... not sure if access is any better these days. I sort of doubt it.

Ted

http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/

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Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead and TSS publications :

[David Locklear]

Here is a cave near the ICS-NSS event:

http://www.oztotl.com/Images/TSimages/2004/StationC/IMG_9352.JPG

I have been wanting to go to that cave for over 20 years.

Another cave over in Real County, Red Arrow Cave, is one that I have
wanted to go to.

I seem to recall there were some trips there a few years ago, unless
I am confusing it with another cave.

What is the status of Secrest Cave?

Most of the small towns have a newspaper of some kind.Has anybody
ever ran an advertisement such as Caves Wanted,  or We buy caves!

Most of us frown upon paying ranchers for access to caves.But what
if that is the
only chance to get a cave trip during the convention?

David Locklear

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Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead and TSS publications :

[Travis Scott]

David and all,

Both Station C and Red Arrow caves have been visited in recent years and 
have a caver-land owner relationship.  You can see photos here:

www.oztotl.com/travis
Red Arrow houses a large bat population near the entrance, so it is not a 
good one for the ICS.  Station C houses some bats, but they roost further 
back in the cave.  We will probably have a few trips to Station C during the 
ICS.


Seacrest has also been visited in recent years and is in the process of 
being surveyed for the land owner.  It too houses a large population of bats 
and can't be used for the ICS (notice a trend here?).


Unfortunately several of the more sizeable and nice caves house bats, I 
REALLY wish the ICS was not mid summer so it would not be sooo difficult 
to find good caves that don't have bats.


There are several websites for the Hill Country that have ranches for sale 
and often mention caves.  A quick check every once in a while has found that 
several caves have sold, and some new ones (to cavers at least) have been 
found and explored.


Travis



- Original Message - 
From: David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com

To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a Kerr County lead and TSS publications :



Here is a cave near the ICS-NSS event:

http://www.oztotl.com/Images/TSimages/2004/StationC/IMG_9352.JPG

I have been wanting to go to that cave for over 20 years.

Another cave over in Real County, Red Arrow Cave, is one that I have
wanted to go to.

I seem to recall there were some trips there a few years ago, unless
I am confusing it with another cave.

What is the status of Secrest Cave?

Most of the small towns have a newspaper of some kind.Has anybody
ever ran an advertisement such as Caves Wanted,  or We buy caves!

Most of us frown upon paying ranchers for access to caves.But what
if that is the
only chance to get a cave trip during the convention?

David Locklear

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[Texascavers] correction

[David Locklear]

I hastily posted something again.

Dolph Briscoe Jr. is apparently still alive.It was his wife that
passed away.

I apologize.

Let me re-phrase the question. Has anybody been in Indian Creek Cave
in the last 10 years?   or even seen the entrance?

Has anybody ever offered to buy the entrance?or purchase an easement
other than the one that the government has.

Who keeps the key? the Briscoes, I assume.

David

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[Texascavers] 2007 Convention Cavers

[Ronald Adams]

 This note is for all who attended the 2007 NSS Convention.

Many of the caves featured in the 2007 NSS Convention Guidebook were on the 
property of the Harrison Crawford State Forest and the O'Bannon Woods State 
Park. There were also several caves on the Hoosier National Forest. I 
coordinated with the State to arrange a daily drop off of permits to save folks 
from driving to the drop off site, and communicated with them on the unusual 
flow of cavers for the week. Most of the problems with caving in the area come 
from spelunkers who are ill prepared, wasted, and irresponsible in their 
actions.

I want to thank everyone for showing the State agencies that real cavers care 
about our cave resources and cave responsibly. We made the decision to trust 
the Convention attendees with a data base of info including topos, maps and 
descriptions for all of our guidebook caves that I assembled especially for 
Convention, and am proud that everyone made us look like the great stewards 
that we are!! I knew you would all be trustworthy!!!

This goes a long ways to show that the State's willingness to allow visitation 
of the caves is both appreciated and is a great asset for lovers of the 
outdoors and something to be proud of.

Below is a note sent to me by the Park Manager:

Subject: RE: Permits and such for NSS Convention
   
  NSS Convention went well, all cavers visiting the property were great and 
good stewards of the cave resources. 

many thanks 

Bob Sawtelle, Park Manager
O'Bannon Woods State Park
7234 Old Forest Rd. SW
Corydon, IN   47112
Office 812-738-8232A few of the more popular caves that are right off the road 
saw a constant flow of people all week, and the parking areas were in plain 
sight of the main route to the park offices. Any ill behavior including 
littering would have been noticed. Thanks for showing that we care

We have many great caves withing our public lands in Indiana and we are 
grateful we were able to show them to all who came to Convention. Feel free to 
send a note to the park to thank them for their willingness to accommodate 
cavers.

Thanks Again!
Ron Adams, Caves Chair, 2007 NSS Convention





  

[Texascavers] a Kerr County Project

[gille]

It would seem to me that there are more caves in Kerr County than have been 
found. It looks like a good place for Texas cavers to do some prospecting over 
the next 2 years. Hold off on that publication, now.

--Ediger

-- Original message --
From: jerryat...@aol.com

  
 In a message dated 8/7/2007 8:18:04 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
 tra...@oztotl.com writes:
 
 David and  others interested in Kerr County caves for the ICS.
 
 There is no  publication for the county as Mark mentioned.  There are a few 
 caves  that are being considered for the ICS.
 
 
 FYI to Texas cavers interested in the caves around the Kerrville  region;  
 the TSS plans to have a publication out on the caves of Kerr,  Bandera, and 
 Real 
 counties before the 2009 ICS.  This will fill one of  the last remaining 
 holes in the TSS's county report coverage  that has been published for the 
 Hill 
 Country area.  If you have any photos,  maps, or cave reports for caves in 
 that area, please contact the TSS.  A  free copy of the publication will be 
 given 
 to the person that submits the oldest  cave photo or map to the TSS for these 
 counties.
  
 Thanks !
  
 Jerry Atkinson
 Editor - Texas Speleological Survey
 
 
 
 ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour



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[Texascavers] AMCS Newsletter reprint

[Bill Mixon]

RD asked if it would be possible to OCR the scans of the poor-quality first
few issues of the old Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter
(published and mostly edited by Terry Raines and the predecessor to the
current AMCS Activities Newsletter title). The scans on the CD are
sufficiently legible to the human reader, but an OCR program would probably
mistake 50% of the characters. -- Mixon
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[Texascavers] Annals of the Former World

[Bill Mixon]

I second (or third) the recommendation that you read Annals of the Former
World. Most of it was previously published in book form (after being
printed in The New Yorker, which I also recommend) as Basin and Range,
Rising from the Plains, In Suspect Terrain, and Assembling California
before the parts were assembled into Annals of the Former World, which
also includes a fifth part on the stable interior craton of the US. Anything
by McPhee is a good read. He's always been published by Farrar, Straus, and
Giroux, and, last I knew, all of his twenty-five or so books were still in
print in both hard and soft covers--one does not abandon a publisher like
that.
 After reading Annals, one become sort of blase about long time
periods, as McPhee throws around things like twelve hundred million years
and five-hundred-million-year unconformaties. From Assembling California:
For an extremely large percentage of the history of the world, there as no
California. . . . Fifty thousand major earthquakes will move something about
a hundred miles. After there was nothing, earthquakes brought things from
far parts of the world to fashion Calilfornia.
An excellent way to learn about the geology of the United States. Don't
be a wimp. Millions of sixth-graders have read Harry Potter books with more
pages.
I also recommend Earth: An Intimate History by Richard Fortey as a
good popular introduction to geology. -- Mixon
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[Texascavers] Speleogenesis on line journal and database

[Bill Mixon]

Forwarded by Bill Mixon. I haven't looked at the data compilations available
on this site, but I do acquire the issues of the free on-line journal
Speleogenesis and Evolution of Karst Acquifers as they come out. The
articles there are mainly reprints, but the journal provides a convenient
way to get articles from various other journals around the world.
Recommended. -- Mixon

WWW.SPELEOGENESIS.INFO  - BULLETIN no 18, August 6, 2007
**
The Www.Speleogenesis.info - Bulletin is produced occasionally
in-between and simultaneously with releases of regular issues of the
online Journal Speleogenesis and Evolution of Karst Aquifers
in order to alert subscribers about current updates and new features
on the site and about content of regular issues.
Sorry for possible cross-posting.
**
Dear Colleagues,

This Bulletin announces new important information resources.

1. Speleogenesis Network website:  http://www.network.speleogenesis.info/
The site is a result of an evolution of the Speleogenesis site, which
combined an online scientific journal (Speleogenesis and Evolution of Karst
Aquifers, www.speleogenesis.info) and a number of features serving
information needs of the cave and karst science community.

With the growth of services and functions supporting information exchange
and international collaboration it became obvious that we need to separate
them from the journal. The Speleogenesis Network site is a new open-access
platform designed to aid integrated efforts of the international cave and
karst community in promoting information exchange, supporting new
online-based research projects and establishing collaborative initiatives.
All major information services from www.speleogenesis.info have been
transferred to the www.network.speleogenesis.info and considerably improved.
The Speleogenesis Network website has many new features and capacities.
It is a contribution of the UIS KHS Commission to international efforts on
promoting communication and cooperation in cave and karst science. We are
happy to launch the Speleogenesis Network site a week before the coming
Karst-2007 Conference in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where major international
groups will discuss how to promote an international cooperation in our
field. We hope that the capacities of the new site will serve this need.

We urge all colleagues who previously registered to www.speleogenesis.info
(over 600 cave and karst people worldwide) to register to the Speleogenesis
Network.  As you'll see, by registering to the Network, you also get
included into the global Directory of Cave and Karst Science, an important
information resource at its own right. Please, keep in mind that your
registration to www.speleogenesis.info can not be transferred to the
Speleogenesis Network, and that the former site will abandon information and
networking functions soon (limiting itself solely on the journal).

Please, register as soon as possible (there are many good reasons for
this!):
http://www.network.speleogenesis.info/member/register.php
We would be very grateful if you help to further distribute this information
in your national and local cavekarst science scene.

Probably the most valuable new resource incorporated into the site is the
KarstBase - a new initiative and a fully functional system to create and
maintain a comprehensive online bibliography database in our field:
http://www.network.speleogenesis.info/directory/bibliography/karstbase/index
.php
There are currently almost 9.000 searchable references in KarstBase. It
offers a number of ways for the community members to contribute to the
database via online submission, so we hope it will grow quickly into a major
resource for Cave/Karst bibliography.

2. Karst Information Portal (KIP):   http://www.karstportal.org/
There is a big ongoing effort of the American core group to promote this new
resource and make it international. Despite of some similarities between
goals and functions of KIP and the Speleogenesis Network, the two sites do
not compete. We coordinate things in both organizational and technical
aspects to make the two sites complementary to each other. KIP has a broader
scope and hopefully will play a major repository role in integrating
existing resources in the whole field of cave and karst science, while
Speleogenesis Network is biased to karst and geospeleology areas and intends
to be more like a test ground for new projects and initiatives. We encourage
Speleogenesis members to visit KIP, register and contribute to the site.

Best wishes!

Sincerely,

Alexander Klimchouk (Ukraine) and
Alexey Koptchinsky (Austria)
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Re: [Texascavers] Hawaii sinkholes yield extinct birds :

[John P Brooks]

Gee. Thats very altruistic of them to preserve 6 acres of an entire plain of 
unique habitat! I guess its a start. But it sounds like they are putting a 
positive spin on it and are looking for brownie points for preserving 6 acres 
while irresponsibly developing 350 acres.
  Don't get me wrong. I am very pro-development. After all my job depends on 
people building buildings. But there are sustainable ways to develop land. And 
there are completely irresponsible ways to develop land. And a light industrial 
park and the building types found in these type of developments doesn't seem 
like a very suitable use for this land type. 

jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
  Oahu sinkholes yield extinct birds By Jan TenBruggencate
Advertiser Science Writer

  The baking sun and thorny kiawe trees of Kapolei hide dense caches of 
history, relics from a time when the 'Ewa Plain was a dense forest alive with 
strange birds now long extinct.   In those years, before the arrival of humans, 
the amazing moa nalo lumbered through the trees. It was a 3-foot-tall, 
flightless gooselike duck — the largest of the Native Hawaiian birds. 
Flightless rails and geese waddled around with it. Overhead flew a sea eagle, 
owls, crows, a hawk and bats. Finches and other perching birds flitted among 
the trees.
  Most of these birds have been extinct for hundreds of years.
  But proof of their existence lies in the bottom of limestone sinkholes 
where they sometimes were trapped and died, leaving their bones and beaks 
behind. The shells of now-extinct tree snails, and the pollen from the plants 
that once forested this area are found in sediments with the bones.
  The sinkholes are vertical caves in an ancient reef that grew during a period 
120,000 years ago when sea levels were much higher. There once were thousands 
of sinkholes across the 'Ewa Plain — time traps that preserved evidence from 
Hawai'i's prehistory.
  Most have already been filled or covered by development.
  Kapolei Property Development, which is proposing a 350-acre light industrial 
park at Kapolei, plans to preserve a six-acre parcel of undisturbed land that 
contains several of the sinkholes.
  A chain-link fence, stained pale brown with the coral dust of the region, 
protects the acreage.
  This area hasn't been touched, said Steve Kelly, manager of development for 
Kapolei Property Development. It was fenced in the early 1990s by the Estate 
of James Campbell, and we plan to put a new fence around it. We will be looking 
to pass on the property to some appropriate entity.
  Scientists and community leaders cheer the firm's decision.
  This is a community resource, a place where people can come and learn about 
the past, said Ati Jeffers-Fabro, an environmental educator who has brought 
kids to the sinkholes to learn natural history.
  This is all we have left of a unique geological and biological setting in 
these Islands, said Helen James, a fossil bird expert at the Smithsonian 
Institution, who with her former husband, Storrs Olson, has taken the lead in 
identifying the ancient bones and beaks. For future understanding and research 
of the Islands' natural history, we should preserve this.
  The Conservation Council for Hawai'i is spearheading the effort to ensure 
protection for the sinkholes. Council executive director Marjorie Ziegler said 
the organization would like the six-acre plot to be transferred to the 
Department of Land and Natural Resources, perhaps designated as a state Natural 
Area Reserve. But if not that organization, some other caretaker should be 
established, she said.
  Key goals are protection, scientific research, public education and the 
possible reforestation of the area with some of the native plants that the 
pollen record proves once lived here, Ziegler said.
  The first person to find bird bones in sinkholes here was Jennie Peterson, 
now the environmental education program manager with the Hawai'i Nature Center. 
During the 1970s, she was an archaeologist with Bishop Museum, studying the 
area for an environmental impact statement on the then-proposed Deep Draft 
Harbor.
  I was digging in a large sinkhole when I found bones. They were so big that 
I thought they were mammal bones, but I knew they couldn't be because they were 
too light, she said.
  'VANISHED FOWL'
  No animal known to have lived in Hawai'i could have produced those bones, so 
she took them to Bishop Museum zoologist Alan Ziegler, Marjorie Ziegler's dad. 
He recognized they were the same class as extinct birds whose bones had been 
found in sand dune deposits on Moloka'i, and consulted with Olson, the 
Smithsonian Institution fossil bird expert, who happened to be conducting 
research on Maui.
  It was a huge bird like nothing alive in the world today.
  They called the group vanished fowl, or moa nalo in Hawaiian. There are 
examples in the fossil record on all the major islands. The O'ahu moa nalo was 
given the scientific name of Thambetochen 

[Texascavers] World's Deepest Caves

[Minton, Mark]

Bill,

  In case you're interested, there were two major connections made in the 
last week or two that affect world deep caves.

  In Austria Raucherkarhöhle and Feuertalsystem were connected producing 
the Schönbergsystem which is 1060 m deep and 120,400 m long, making it the 
longest cave in the E. U. (although Switzerland has longer caves).  This is 
only the second cave in the world to be both over 1000 m deep and 100 km long 
(after Siebenhengste).  There is a little information at 
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schönbergsystem.

  In Abkhazia/Georgia (former USSR), Illusia Cave was connected to 
Snezhnaya-Mezhennogo Cave system.  The new depth of this system is 1750 m with 
a total length of 23km.  This is now the 2nd deepest cave in the world after 
Krubera-Voronja.  (Information from a Russian caver email list via Yuri 
Schwartz.)

 The grapevine is _fast_!  :-)

Mark Minton

Re: [Texascavers] Bustamante Project - Update?

[Orion Knox]

RE: [Texascavers] Bustamante Project - Update?Mark,

As of now, no one has come forward and volunteered to take over the 
coordination responsibility of the project. The only discussion I am aware of 
has been that on the Texas Cavers Discussion Group. It is to late to get a 
Labor Day Weekend Project going for this year but either a President's Day or 
Labor Day project could be put together for next year if one or two cavers 
stepped forward and pulled it together. Rune and I would both be willing to 
lend our knowledge of the project to anyone wanting to put it together.

Orion
  - Original Message - 
  From: mark.al...@l-3com.com 
  To: Orion Knox ; TexasCavers ; Rune Burnett 
  Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:49 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Bustamante Project - Update?


   
  Orion and Rune, 



  Has there been any news or updates as to the handing off of this project? 

  I would like something for The TEXAS Caver. 




  Thanks in advance! 



  Mark Alman - Editor 



  P.S. - Do y'all (or anyone else, for that matter) have any good stories I 
could use for future Carbide Corners in the TC?





  -Original Message- 
  From: Orion Knox [mailto:orion-k...@austin.rr.com] 
  Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:07 PM 
  To: TexasCavers 
  Subject: [Texascavers] Bustamante Project 

  The following information on the status of the Bustamante Restoration Project 
was sent to a fairly large mailing list of cavers who have been active in the 
project in past years. For those not familiar with the project, it has been 
going on for nine years either on the Labor Day or President's Day weekends. 
There is an E-mail discussion currently going on as to the project's future. 
I'm posting this on Texas Cavers list so that a wider group of cavers will know 
what is going on and can join in on the discussion.

  Orion Knox 

  In case you haven't heard through the grape vine, we (Orion  Rune) have 
announced our retirement as co-coordinators of the annual Bustamante 
Restoration Project after nine years at the helm. Age and other postponed 
projects have caught up with us. We had a Bustamante Project organizers meeting 
last Thursday to see if anyone was interested in taking over putting on this 
project. No one jumped at the opportunity either at the meeting or by other 
means of correspondence.

  We are now putting out a call to others who have had an interest in or 
participated in past projects to see if anyone wants the job. We, as well as 
others who helped organize the project in the past are willing to help out as 
time permits. The officials in Bustamante would be glad to host more projects 
as they have in the past and as everyone who has participated knows, we have 
accomplished a tremendous amount of beneficial work in and around the cave. The 
city and the State Department of Tourism have been very appreciative of our 
efforts and we can take pride in the work the Amigos de la Gruta have done. 
Although this world class cave has come a long way as far as restoration is 
concerned, much work remains. Should anyone be interested in coordinating 
future projects at Bustamante, contact Orion and Rune.

  Our sincere thanks goes out to the legions of folks who helped put the 
project together and put in thousands of hours of hard work these past years 
and made it the success it has been.

  Other decisions made at the meeting were that part of the project funds 
accumulated over the years will be spent on cave related books, hopefully in 
Spanish, to be given to Bustamante's library. With approval and coordination 
with city and State officials, we would also like to spend another portion of 
funds on an interpretive exhibit either at El Cono or the facilities planned to 
be built at the entrance to the cave. Seed money will be held back to fund a 
future project if one develops.

  If no one comes forward to coordinate a project this year, several of us 
still plan to spend the Labor Day weekend in Bustamante to see how the 
development in the first room of the cave has gone and just relax in one of 
Mexico's most pleasant towns.

  Orion  Rune 

  Orion Knox 

  orion-k...@austin.rr.com 

  Rune Burnett 

  bburne...@austin.rr.com   




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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers)

[Ted Samsel]

-Original Message- From: "Minton, Mark" Sent: Aug 7, 2007 4:53 PM To: Texascavers Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers) 

 Stefan Creaser said:
Don't want to be picky, but isn't it "Glory, Glory..."?
 I think that's a religious song...
It's a political song. War of Northron Aggro. Of the winning side.

T.


http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/

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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers)

[vivbone]

Just to clear this up for our foreign born readers-
The song from which all these Gory Gory lyrics are derived is The Battle Hymn 
of the Republic circa the US civil war.

Yes it's religious. Yes it's political. 
It's the unofficial anthem of the Republican Party.

It goes like this:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.

Chorus

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
As ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

Chorus

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

Chorus

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

Chorus

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.

Chorus



-- Original message --
From: Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net




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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers)

[J. LaRue Bills]

Thanks, Vivian. Things were beginning to get confusing. Jacqui


- Original Message - 
From: vivb...@att.net
To: Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net; Texascavers 
Texascavers@texascavers.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die 
(Blood Upon the Risers)




Just to clear this up for our foreign born readers-
The song from which all these Gory Gory lyrics are derived is The Battle 
Hymn of the Republic circa the US civil war.


Yes it's religious. Yes it's political.
It's the unofficial anthem of the Republican Party.

It goes like this:

   Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
   He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
   He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
   His truth is marching on.

   (Chorus)
   Glory, glory, hallelujah!
   Glory, glory, hallelujah!
   Glory, glory, hallelujah!
   His truth is marching on.

   I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
   They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
   I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
   His day is marching on.

   Chorus

   I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
   As ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
   Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
   Since God is marching on.

   Chorus

   He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
   He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
   Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
   Our God is marching on.

   Chorus

   In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
   With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
   As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
   While God is marching on.

   Chorus

   He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
   He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
   So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
   Our God is marching on.

   Chorus



-- Original message --
From: Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net






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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers)

[Louise Power]

Hi All

Further information on "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is available on:
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/h/bhymnotr.htmThe music is to "John Brown's Body" (later alsoused for "Solidarity Forever," an old union song), to wit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_Body
Interesting how these things develop. To paraphrase Topsy (from Uncle Tom's Cabin), it just growed.
Louise




From:vivb...@att.netTo:Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net, Texascavers Texascavers@texascavers.comSubject:Re: [Texascavers] RE: Gory, Gory, what a hell of a way to die (Blood Upon the Risers)Date:Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:33:05 +Received:from raistlin.wokka.org ([69.56.185.90]) by bay0-mc4-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Wed, 8 Aug 2007 06:33:14 -0700Received:(qmail 71583 invoked by uid 89); 8 Aug 2007 13:33:15 -Received:(qmail 71574 invoked by uid 31338); 8 Aug 2007 13:33:15 -Just to clear this up for our foreign born readers-The song from which all these Gory Gory lyrics are derived is The Battle Hymn of the Republic circa the US civil war.Yes it's 
religious. Yes it's political.It's the unofficial anthem of the Republican Party.It goes like this: Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord: He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword: His truth is marching on. (Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! His truth is marching on. I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a 
hundred circling camps, They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps; I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps: His day is marching on. Chorus I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel: "As ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal; Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel, Since God is marching on." Chorus He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat; He is sifting out the hearts of men before His 
judgment-seat: Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet! Our God is marching on. Chorus In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea, With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me: As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, While God is marching on. Chorus He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave, He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave, So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave, Our 
God is marching on. Chorus-- Original message --From: Ted Samsel tbsam...@infionline.net-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


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[Texascavers] a salt cavern tour

[David Locklear]

I mentioned last year that I wanted to try to organize a tour
to a salt cavern.

I finally got a response from United Salt Corp.

http://www.unitedsalt.com/

Here is the e-mail they sent me today.



We do offer field trips by appointment only. The cost is $150 per person
with a maximum of 8 people per tour. Please contact Ben Straka at 936 372
3931 for scheduling.

I assume this is their facility in Hockley, Texas, which is just northwest
of Houston.

I know of 2 or 3 cavers who have taken this tour and they said it was
interesting.

I would like to do this someday.

David Locklear

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RE: [Texascavers] a salt cavern tour

[Louise Power]

$150/person! Wow! Cavers must be a lot richer todaythan they were when I was caving!




From:"David Locklear" dlocklea...@gmail.comTo:texascavers@texascavers.comSubject:[Texascavers] a salt cavern tourDate:Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:42:06 -0500MIME-Version:1.0Received:from raistlin.wokka.org ([69.56.185.90]) by bay0-mc6-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:42:24 -0700Received:(qmail 74958 invoked by uid 89); 8 Aug 2007 15:42:25 -Received:(qmail 74949 invoked by uid 31338); 8 Aug 2007 15:42:25 -I mentioned last year that I wanted to try to organize a tourto a salt cavern.I finally got a response from United Salt Corp.http://www.unitedsalt.com/Here is the e-mail they sent me today.We do offer 
field trips by appointment only. The cost is $150 per personwith a maximum of 8 people per tour. Please contact Ben Straka at 936 3723931 for scheduling.I assume this is their facility in Hockley, Texas, which is just northwestof Houston.I know of 2 or 3 cavers who have taken this tour and they said it wasinteresting.I would like to do this someday.David Locklear-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


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Re: [Texascavers] a salt cavern tour

[John P. Brooks]

Do they offer a low sodium tour for half price?



On 8/8/07 10:42 AM, David Locklear dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I mentioned last year that I wanted to try to organize a tour
 to a salt cavern.
 
 I finally got a response from United Salt Corp.
 
 http://www.unitedsalt.com/
 
 Here is the e-mail they sent me today.
 
 
 
 We do offer field trips by appointment only. The cost is $150 per person
 with a maximum of 8 people per tour. Please contact Ben Straka at 936 372
 3931 for scheduling.
 
 I assume this is their facility in Hockley, Texas, which is just northwest
 of Houston.
 
 I know of 2 or 3 cavers who have taken this tour and they said it was
 interesting.
 
 I would like to do this someday.
 
 David Locklear
 
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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] a tee-pee shelter at Sam's Club

[David Locklear]

Sam's Club is selling a tee-pee like shelter
in the section where they sell camping gear.

It is $ 130. They claim it is 30 feet wide.
( it has an hexagon shaped base )

It has one central steel pole about 10 feet tall,
and then you stake down several points.

I couldn't tell if it is rain-proof, but you could always
coat it with some extra silicone.

The bottom of the walls are netting.

Has anybody seen this pitched somewhere.
If so, can 4 or 5 people sit under it?

I wonder if it could have survived the Photo
Salon Storm of 2007?

I am thinking if you had a table with a hole
in the middle of it, that this tee-pee would work
pretty good over the table.

David Locklear

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[Texascavers] Re: a tee-pee shelter at Sam's Club

[David Locklear]

here is a picture of the teepee-like shelter:

http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0072700116049_L4.jpg

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