[Texascavers] WNS kills thousands in Pa cave
From now.msn this morning: http://now.msn.com/white-nose-kills-millions-of-bats-hibernating-in-pennsylvania
Re: CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent via C=64 Mobile On Mar 29, 2013, at 10:52 PM, texascavers-h...@texascavers.com wrote: Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. I respectfully request your permission to add rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com to the subscribers of the texascavers mailing list. This request either came from you, or it has already been verified by the potential subscriber. To confirm, please send an empty reply to this address: texascavers-tc.1364615545.miblcbkgdlbnkmpfdklg-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com Usually, this happens when you just hit the reply button. If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into the To: field of a new message. If you don't approve, simply ignore this message. Thank you for your help! --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: For help and a description of available commands, send a message to: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com To subscribe to the list, send a message to: texascavers-subscr...@texascavers.com To remove your address from the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, you can also send a message to: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For addition or removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction. If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message to: texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com Please include a FORWARDED list message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help you. --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com Received: (qmail 33348 invoked by uid 89); 30 Mar 2013 03:52:25 - Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ve0-f182.google.com) (209.85.128.182) by gnome.wokka.org with (RC4-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 30 Mar 2013 03:52:25 - Received: by mail-ve0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m1so1073206ves.27 for texascavers-sc.1364615492.ldhoaghgnmfjgeha-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=7LD2TN6Aa+yVDwtgWfuuvXaNS2xbnwDsyZrVL8Xau+g=; b=dogO6RQeohg/gDcU1LKCO77oYiXTV64lEBi0mIvcL1RAYWLjGrtr69Pg3BBtZG7qxr YCIjWro6mvcVi+gos9HvGbhr12HHgLS/Vfh321N8N+LnHIM/4IhOzLaqMj/tQWq0CL9q zTni60QJt8N9OrlgreAevHEDyAWx0h+0VZ9nVuL8ANZ11kxoe7bYP7/jMiCOBnVrKAXj MnuztjuwISV0gsS5S17zF7dOzDeGPnXdhm4pNcaycPzLkDcxUyoQzDWXu0FrUU8vEqb7 pP1JRzeDO8XlJiDNI3ROi7hjY5v7KpLn+z/xYSBUi11/MvAfoojqu4Q5KBy4Lr2O3tkN BbaQ== X-Received: by 10.52.76.164 with SMTP id l4mr2912188vdw.122.1364615544778; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.59.7.229 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Rahul Bhandari rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: cag7ksexuy+bj0zdpshaveaqq2ovf2ngpnr33zru6sfg8bdp...@mail.gmail.com Subject: To: texascavers-sc.1364615492.ldhoaghgnmfjgeha-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 div dir=ltrbr/div --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6--
Re: [SWR] bees
Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: casto...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:06:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] bees Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Louise, Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise The following article, posted yesterday, has the latest on the honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder, and it's looking like new strong pesticides are the problem. Not surprising. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bee-deaths-colony-collapse_n_2979959.html Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] WNS kills thousands in Pa cave
From now.msn this morning: http://now.msn.com/white-nose-kills-millions-of-bats-hibernating-in-pennsylvania
Re: CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent via C=64 Mobile On Mar 29, 2013, at 10:52 PM, texascavers-h...@texascavers.com wrote: Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. I respectfully request your permission to add rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com to the subscribers of the texascavers mailing list. This request either came from you, or it has already been verified by the potential subscriber. To confirm, please send an empty reply to this address: texascavers-tc.1364615545.miblcbkgdlbnkmpfdklg-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com Usually, this happens when you just hit the reply button. If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into the To: field of a new message. If you don't approve, simply ignore this message. Thank you for your help! --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: For help and a description of available commands, send a message to: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com To subscribe to the list, send a message to: texascavers-subscr...@texascavers.com To remove your address from the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, you can also send a message to: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For addition or removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction. If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message to: texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com Please include a FORWARDED list message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help you. --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com Received: (qmail 33348 invoked by uid 89); 30 Mar 2013 03:52:25 - Received: from unknown (HELO mail-ve0-f182.google.com) (209.85.128.182) by gnome.wokka.org with (RC4-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 30 Mar 2013 03:52:25 - Received: by mail-ve0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m1so1073206ves.27 for texascavers-sc.1364615492.ldhoaghgnmfjgeha-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=7LD2TN6Aa+yVDwtgWfuuvXaNS2xbnwDsyZrVL8Xau+g=; b=dogO6RQeohg/gDcU1LKCO77oYiXTV64lEBi0mIvcL1RAYWLjGrtr69Pg3BBtZG7qxr YCIjWro6mvcVi+gos9HvGbhr12HHgLS/Vfh321N8N+LnHIM/4IhOzLaqMj/tQWq0CL9q zTni60QJt8N9OrlgreAevHEDyAWx0h+0VZ9nVuL8ANZ11kxoe7bYP7/jMiCOBnVrKAXj MnuztjuwISV0gsS5S17zF7dOzDeGPnXdhm4pNcaycPzLkDcxUyoQzDWXu0FrUU8vEqb7 pP1JRzeDO8XlJiDNI3ROi7hjY5v7KpLn+z/xYSBUi11/MvAfoojqu4Q5KBy4Lr2O3tkN BbaQ== X-Received: by 10.52.76.164 with SMTP id l4mr2912188vdw.122.1364615544778; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.59.7.229 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Rahul Bhandari rahul.m.bhand...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: cag7ksexuy+bj0zdpshaveaqq2ovf2ngpnr33zru6sfg8bdp...@mail.gmail.com Subject: To: texascavers-sc.1364615492.ldhoaghgnmfjgeha-rahul.m.bhandari=gmail@texascavers.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 div dir=ltrbr/div --bcaec50166d3cd347c04d91c50c6--
[SWR] bees
Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Thanks, Steve. I agree whole heartedly!!! Where is the CBD when you need them? Hundreds of lawyers lining up, hands to stingers, with the bees, ready to pounce with glee on the intrepid explorers as they emerge from the dreaded netherworld. Ahhh! So the mystery continues. Who is the mysterious person who brought over WNS from europe? Speculation is running rampant. Was monetary gain a possibility? (caves closed, and possible research and legal dollars become available). I'm shocked! If only there were a caver tabloid. I'm melting ... Oh the spores ... the spores ... (tounge in cheek) cheers, Ray - Original Message - From: Stephen Fleming casto...@gmail.com To: NM Caver List s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: casto...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:06:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] bees Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Louise, Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise The following article, posted yesterday, has the latest on the honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder, and it's looking like new strong pesticides are the problem. Not surprising. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bee-deaths-colony-collapse_n_2979959.html Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
humor, lee, humor List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:16:44 -0600 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net; power_lou...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [SWR] bees Louise, Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise The following article, posted yesterday, has the latest on the honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder, and it's looking like new strong pesticides are the problem. Not surprising. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bee-deaths-colony-collapse_n_2979959.html Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] WNS kills thousands in Pa cave
From now.msn this morning: http://now.msn.com/white-nose-kills-millions-of-bats-hibernating-in-pennsylvania
Re: CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
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[SWR] bees
Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Thanks, Steve. I agree whole heartedly!!! Where is the CBD when you need them? Hundreds of lawyers lining up, hands to stingers, with the bees, ready to pounce with glee on the intrepid explorers as they emerge from the dreaded netherworld. Ahhh! So the mystery continues. Who is the mysterious person who brought over WNS from europe? Speculation is running rampant. Was monetary gain a possibility? (caves closed, and possible research and legal dollars become available). I'm shocked! If only there were a caver tabloid. I'm melting ... Oh the spores ... the spores ... (tounge in cheek) cheers, Ray - Original Message - From: Stephen Fleming casto...@gmail.com To: NM Caver List s...@caver.net Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: casto...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 17:06:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] bees Stephen, You can still have a career as an investigative reporter! Excellent work in connecting the cleverly disguised non-facts... Now, if you can just deduce a way for human entry into the Mesa Del Oro super-cave without spreading Bee viruses. Thanks, John -Original Message- From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Fleming Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 1:12 PM To: NM Caver List Subject: [SWR] bees Buzz Kill Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees Frank Rumpenhorst/Getty Images Mystery Illness Wipes Out Bees A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse since 2005 has drastically expanded this year, wiping out as much as 40 to 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate America's fruits and vegetables. Scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths, but some beekeepers and researchers blame a new class of pesticides called neonicotinoids that are now bred into plants themselves. (Not surprisingly, the pesticide industry disputes this.) Until this year, beekeepers in California's San Joaquin Valley had only been losing a third of their bees, but the deaths have increased dramatically this year. The largest farm, in South Dakota, said it lost 55 percent of its bees this year. The EPA has sent a top official and chemical experts to California for discussions. Undoubtedly, this was brought from Europe by that same, single caver at the same time he was bringing WNS, and subsequently spread by other cavers who recklessly wander through apiary sites (or never get near one) without washing their clothes or brushing their teeth, or wringing their hands enough over the situation. The only thing that is unexplained is why researchers and beekeepers have not blamed cavers...yet. It's bound to come since scientists have been unable to determine the cause of the mass deaths (but blame, without proof, is easily offered). Clearly, in such situations where the most logical explanations are not vetted or are dismissed in favor of those less likely, it has to be the cavers who are at fault. I'm now convinced it was that same careless caver who caused the meteorite to hit Russia. Clearly, using the WNS and bee cases as examples, nothing else can adequately explain why that happened. Somebody needs to catch that European guy and give him a time-out before he causes any more calamities. ---end satire--- ---begin serious comment--- I'm still waiting for something other than the continuing and complete lack of scientific data showing the WNS human vector; the ongoing unsubstantiated claim of such is nevertheless arbitrarily and capriciously used to justify closing caves. Could, might, may or possibly does not constitute rigorous scientific inquiry nor results, nor form the basis for any rational reason to restrict access. Stephen Fleming ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
Louise, Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise The following article, posted yesterday, has the latest on the honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder, and it's looking like new strong pesticides are the problem. Not surprising. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bee-deaths-colony-collapse_n_2979959.html Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] bees
humor, lee, humor List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:16:44 -0600 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net; power_lou...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [SWR] bees Louise, Are we sure that WNS and the bee disease are not the same thing only manifesting itself in a different form in a different organism? If so, we should check all the Europeans coming into the U.S. for the period that the first disease started to the present. That should narrow the culprit down...especially if we talk only to the ones who have been in a cave prior to coming here. Louise The following article, posted yesterday, has the latest on the honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder, and it's looking like new strong pesticides are the problem. Not surprising. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/bee-deaths-colony-collapse_n_2979959.html Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
