Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: GPS recommendation? (Jim Kennedy via Texascavers)
   2. Re: GPS recommendation? (Katherine Arens via Texascavers)
   3. Sinkhole Conference: call for abstracts!
  (George Veni via Texascavers)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:29:26 -0500
From: Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
To: Charles Loving ,
"texascavers@texascavers.com" 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?
Message-ID: <5ecf99aa-98ba-452b-83bb-e4aa8ed9f...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

A sexton is an officer of a church, congregation, or synagogue charged with the 
maintenance of its buildings and/or the surrounding graveyard. In smaller 
places of worship, this office is often combined with that of verger. In larger 
buildings, such as cathedrals, a team of sextons may be employed.

A sextant is an instrument used to measure the angle between any two visible 
objects. Its primary use is to determine the angle between a celestial object 
and the horizon which is known as the object's altitude.

[Wikipedia]

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the 
> sky.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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--

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 01:19:57 +
From: Katherine Arens via Texascavers 
To: Jim Kennedy , "texascavers@texascavers.com"

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

HEY, he was talking about a SPIRITUAL GUIDE, none of them there new-fangled 
metal do-hickeys . . .
the lord will guide us . . . ;-)

On Jul 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:

A sexton is an officer of a church, congregation, or synagogue charged with the 
maintenance of its buildings and/or the surrounding 
graveyard<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard>. In smaller places of 
worship, this office is often combined with that of 
verger<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verger>. In larger buildings, such as 
cathedrals<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral>, a team of sextons may be 
employed.

A sextant is an instrument<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measuring_instrument> 
used to measure the angle<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle> between any two 
visible objects. Its primary use is to determine the angle between a celestial 
object<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_object> and the 
horizon<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon> which is known as the object's 
altitude.

[Wikipedia]

Mobile email from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:

Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the sky.
___
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Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu<mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu> Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802

  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''''''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/

[Texascavers] Sinkhole Conference: call for abstracts!

[George Veni via Texascavers]

Dear Friends,

I am happy to announce the call for abstracts for the 14th Multidisciplinary 
Conference on Sinkholes and the Engineering and Environmental Impacts of Karst. 
Generally known as "The Sinkhole Conference," for 30 years this conference 
series has been the premier conference for all aspects of karst geoscience and 
related engineering and environmental issues-and not just sinkholes.

The next Sinkhole Conference will be held in Rochester, Minnesota, on 5-9 
October 2015, and jointly organized with the Minnesota Groundwater Association 
it should be an exceptional meeting!

The Sinkhole Conference has a permanent website at the easy-to-remember 
address: http://www.sinkholeconference.com/. Bookmark and visit it for 
information on how to submit an abstract, find the deadline for the full 
papers, and other information, includes the proceedings of the 13th Sinkhole 
Conference for free download. Also, visit our new "Destination" tab, which has 
a lot of great Information on Rochester, transportation, hotels, maps, dining, 
etc.

If you have any questions, let me know. Please distribute this information to 
anyone you think may be interested.

George

George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

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Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?

[Katherine Arens via Texascavers]

HEY, he was talking about a SPIRITUAL GUIDE, none of them there new-fangled 
metal do-hickeys . . .
the lord will guide us . . . ;-)

On Jul 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:

A sexton is an officer of a church, congregation, or synagogue charged with the 
maintenance of its buildings and/or the surrounding 
graveyard. In smaller places of 
worship, this office is often combined with that of 
verger. In larger buildings, such as 
cathedrals, a team of sextons may be 
employed.

A sextant is an instrument 
used to measure the angle between any two 
visible objects. Its primary use is to determine the angle between a celestial 
object and the 
horizon which is known as the object's 
altitude.

[Wikipedia]

Mobile email from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:

Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the sky.
___
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Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers


Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802

  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV








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Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

[John Corcoran]

Thanks for filling in some detail Bob.

Regards,

John

-Original Message-
From: SWR [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bob Buecher
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:50 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

I see that there has been somewhat of a misconception about when Radon became 
an issue in cave management.  This did not happen at the first (1975) Cave 
Management Symposium.  The goal of the symposium was to spread information on 
cave management practices among cave managers.  Only one paper out of 58 
presented dealt with the issue of Radon.  Van Cleave reported that Radon had 
been detected in Carlsbad Caverns but was not considered to be a problem at 
that time.  He did recommend that other tour caves measure their levels in case 
they might be higher.
Perhaps people are mistaking the 1975 Symposium for the ones in 1976 and 1977, 
which each did have several presentations on Radon in caves.
Radon was first brought to the attention of the caving community by Bill 
Varnedoe in the early 1960's The National Park Service became concerned because 
some of their employees (not the public) were accumulating high doses of 
radiation over their careers.  For instance, Mammoth Cave used cave air to 
air-condition the visitor's center.
The National Park Service introduced an exposure limit of 4 working level 
months per year on their employees.  A Working Level Month is an exposure to
1.0 working levels for 173 hours.  A working level is a measure of the energy 
that Radon Daughters deliver to the lungs and is roughly equivalent to 100 to 
200 pico-curies/liter, depending on equilibrium levels.  For instance, the 
Naturalist Room in Carlsbad Cavern has a Working Level of about 1.0, much 
higher than the rest of the cave.  An NPS employee could spend 173 hrs X 4 
months X 1.0 working level  = 692 hours per year.  1.0 working levels is 
somewhat high for most caves.  Horsethief Cave in Wyoming has been mentioned as 
being in an area of high Radon, but has only 0.8 working levels.  But nearby 
Titan Mine/Cave has incredibly high Radon levels of 1,250,000 pico curies 
/liter (yep 1,250,000 not the previously mentioned 125,000, I double checked).  
This could be equivalent to 12,500 working levels!  In which case NPS rules 
would allow you only about 5 minutes to reach a 4 working level months of 
exposure.  Of course the 4 working level months regulation is very conservative 
but if you are going into a known high radon cave it is prudent to take some 
precautions even if it is only a bandanna.

Bob Buecher

-Original Message-
From: DONALD G. DAVIS
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 2:43 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

>Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread
>
>
>The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery 
>of high levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave 
>management folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted 
>in the first ever Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975).
>This was arranged by the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park 
>Service to provide federal managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest 
>Service with guidance. For the first time on a national level federal 
>resource managers became aware that caves really needed managing, and 
>that cavers were a significant source for useful information.
>
>The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the 
>majority of their time underground.
>
>This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in 
>Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were 
>both small and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" 
>roaring fire in the sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium 
>attendees. I remember Pete and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, 
>and all the CRF leadership present.
>
>DirtDoc

I was at that first Cave Management Symposium too, but had forgotten that it 
was triggered by concern about radon exposure.

--Donald
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Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

[Ron]

So if you spend a week in the Naturalist Room with 150 pCi/L surveying and 
camping, you'll get 0.3 working-level months.  This increases your chance of 
dying from cancer by 0.7 over the next 50 years.  (1 WLM yields 3.9 mSv of 
alpha dose to the lungs and results in a probability increase for latent cancer 
fatality of 0.00023.)

If you spend a week in Titan Mine (an old uranium mine) with 1,250,000 pCi/L, 
it increases your chance of dying from cancer by 0.6, so don't spend a week 
there.  Hopefully they had better ventilation when it was operational.

Ron Lipinski

-Original Message-
From: SWR [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bob Buecher
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:50 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

I see that there has been somewhat of a misconception about when Radon became 
an issue in cave management.  This did not happen at the first (1975) Cave 
Management Symposium.  The goal of the symposium was to spread information on 
cave management practices among cave managers.  Only one paper out of 58 
presented dealt with the issue of Radon.  Van Cleave reported that Radon had 
been detected in Carlsbad Caverns but was not considered to be a problem at 
that time.  He did recommend that other tour caves measure their levels in case 
they might be higher.
Perhaps people are mistaking the 1975 Symposium for the ones in 1976 and 1977, 
which each did have several presentations on Radon in caves.
Radon was first brought to the attention of the caving community by Bill 
Varnedoe in the early 1960's The National Park Service became concerned because 
some of their employees (not the public) were accumulating high doses of 
radiation over their careers.  For instance, Mammoth Cave used cave air to 
air-condition the visitor's center.
The National Park Service introduced an exposure limit of 4 working level 
months per year on their employees.  A Working Level Month is an exposure to
1.0 working levels for 173 hours.  A working level is a measure of the energy 
that Radon Daughters deliver to the lungs and is roughly equivalent to 100 to 
200 pico-curies/liter, depending on equilibrium levels.  For instance, the 
Naturalist Room in Carlsbad Cavern has a Working Level of about 1.0, much 
higher than the rest of the cave.  An NPS employee could spend 173 hrs X 4 
months X 1.0 working level  = 692 hours per year.  1.0 working levels is 
somewhat high for most caves.  Horsethief Cave in Wyoming has been mentioned as 
being in an area of high Radon, but has only 0.8 working levels.  But nearby 
Titan Mine/Cave has incredibly high Radon levels of 1,250,000 pico curies 
/liter (yep 1,250,000 not the previously mentioned 125,000, I double checked).  
This could be equivalent to 12,500 working levels!  In which case NPS rules 
would allow you only about 5 minutes to reach a 4 working level months of 
exposure.  Of course the 4 working level months regulation is very conservative 
but if you are going into a known high radon cave it is prudent to take some 
precautions even if it is only a bandanna.

Bob Buecher

-Original Message-
From: DONALD G. DAVIS
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 2:43 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

>Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread
>
>
>The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery 
>of high levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave 
>management folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted 
>in the first ever Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975).
>This was arranged by the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park 
>Service to provide federal managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest 
>Service with guidance. For the first time on a national level federal 
>resource managers became aware that caves really needed managing, and 
>that cavers were a significant source for useful information.
>
>The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the 
>majority of their time underground.
>
>This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in 
>Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were 
>both small and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" 
>roaring fire in the sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium 
>attendees. I remember Pete and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, 
>and all the CRF leadership present.
>
>DirtDoc

I was at that first Cave Management Symposium too, but had forgotten that it 
was triggered by concern about radon exposure.

--Donald
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Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

[Pete Lindsley]

I can remember at the Flint Ridge expeditions in the old "Radon Days" of 
Mammoth Cave we sometimes had NPS employees join the teams that asked not to be 
mentioned in the reports. They felt that what they did in their off-time was 
their own business, and did not want to complicate the micro-management 
policies.

 - Pete

On Jul 26, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Bob Buecher wrote:

I see that there has been somewhat of a misconception about when Radon became 
an issue in cave management.  This did not happen at the first (1975) Cave 
Management Symposium.  The goal of the symposium was to spread information on 
cave management practices among cave managers.  Only one paper out of 58 
presented dealt with the issue of Radon.  Van Cleave reported that Radon had 
been detected in Carlsbad Caverns but was not considered to be a problem at 
that time.  He did recommend that other tour caves measure their levels in case 
they might be higher.
Perhaps people are mistaking the 1975 Symposium for the ones in 1976 and 1977, 
which each did have several presentations on Radon in caves.
Radon was first brought to the attention of the caving community by Bill 
Varnedoe in the early 1960's
The National Park Service became concerned because some of their employees (not 
the public) were accumulating high doses of radiation over their careers.  For 
instance, Mammoth Cave used cave air to air-condition the visitor's center.
The National Park Service introduced an exposure limit of 4 working level 
months per year on their employees.  A Working Level Month is an exposure to 
1.0 working levels for 173 hours.  A working level is a measure of the energy 
that Radon Daughters deliver to the lungs and is roughly equivalent to 100 to 
200 pico-curies/liter, depending on equilibrium levels.  For instance, the 
Naturalist Room in Carlsbad Cavern has a Working Level of about 1.0, much 
higher than the rest of the cave.  An NPS employee could spend 173 hrs X 4 
months X 1.0 working level  = 692 hours per year.  1.0 working levels is 
somewhat high for most caves.  Horsethief Cave in Wyoming has been mentioned as 
being in an area of high Radon, but has only 0.8 working levels.  But nearby 
Titan Mine/Cave has incredibly high Radon levels of 1,250,000 pico curies 
/liter (yep 1,250,000 not the previously mentioned 125,000, I double checked).  
This could be equivalent to 12,500 working levels!  In which case NPS rules 
would allow you only about 5 minutes to reach a 4 working level months of 
exposure.  Of course the 4 working level months regulation is very conservative 
but if you are going into a known high radon cave it is prudent to take some 
precautions even if it is only a bandanna.

Bob Buecher

-Original Message- From: DONALD G. DAVIS
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 2:43 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

dirt...@comcast.net wrote:

> Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread
> 
> 
> The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery of
> high levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave
> management folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted in
> the first ever Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975).
> This was arranged by the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park
> Service to provide federal managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest
> Service with guidance. For the first time on a national level federal
> resource managers became aware that caves really needed managing, and that
> cavers were a significant source for useful information.
> 
> The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the majority
> of their time underground.
> 
> This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in
> Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were both
> small and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" roaring
> fire in the sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium attendees. I
> remember Pete and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, and all the CRF
> leadership present.
> 
> DirtDoc

I was at that first Cave Management Symposium too, but had
forgotten that it was triggered by concern about radon exposure.

--Donald
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Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

[Bob Buecher]

I see that there has been somewhat of a misconception about when Radon 
became an issue in cave management.  This did not happen at the first (1975) 
Cave Management Symposium.  The goal of the symposium was to spread 
information on cave management practices among cave managers.  Only one 
paper out of 58 presented dealt with the issue of Radon.  Van Cleave 
reported that Radon had been detected in Carlsbad Caverns but was not 
considered to be a problem at that time.  He did recommend that other tour 
caves measure their levels in case they might be higher.
Perhaps people are mistaking the 1975 Symposium for the ones in 1976 and 
1977, which each did have several presentations on Radon in caves.
Radon was first brought to the attention of the caving community by Bill 
Varnedoe in the early 1960's
The National Park Service became concerned because some of their employees 
(not the public) were accumulating high doses of radiation over their 
careers.  For instance, Mammoth Cave used cave air to air-condition the 
visitor's center.
The National Park Service introduced an exposure limit of 4 working level 
months per year on their employees.  A Working Level Month is an exposure to 
1.0 working levels for 173 hours.  A working level is a measure of the 
energy that Radon Daughters deliver to the lungs and is roughly equivalent 
to 100 to 200 pico-curies/liter, depending on equilibrium levels.  For 
instance, the Naturalist Room in Carlsbad Cavern has a Working Level of 
about 1.0, much higher than the rest of the cave.  An NPS employee could 
spend 173 hrs X 4 months X 1.0 working level  = 692 hours per year.  1.0 
working levels is somewhat high for most caves.  Horsethief Cave in Wyoming 
has been mentioned as being in an area of high Radon, but has only 0.8 
working levels.  But nearby Titan Mine/Cave has incredibly high Radon levels 
of 1,250,000 pico curies /liter (yep 1,250,000 not the previously mentioned 
125,000, I double checked).  This could be equivalent to 12,500 working 
levels!  In which case NPS rules would allow you only about 5 minutes to 
reach a 4 working level months of exposure.  Of course the 4 working level 
months regulation is very conservative but if you are going into a known 
high radon cave it is prudent to take some precautions even if it is only a 
bandanna.


Bob Buecher

-Original Message- 
From: DONALD G. DAVIS

Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 2:43 PM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

dirt...@comcast.net wrote:


Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread


The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery of
high levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave
management folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted in
the first ever Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975).
This was arranged by the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park
Service to provide federal managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest
Service with guidance. For the first time on a national level federal
resource managers became aware that caves really needed managing, and that
cavers were a significant source for useful information.

The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the majority
of their time underground.

This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in
Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were both
small and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" roaring
fire in the sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium attendees. I
remember Pete and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, and all the CRF
leadership present.

DirtDoc


I was at that first Cave Management Symposium too, but had
forgotten that it was triggered by concern about radon exposure.

--Donald
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Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?

[Jim Kennedy via Texascavers]

A sexton is an officer of a church, congregation, or synagogue charged with the 
maintenance of its buildings and/or the surrounding graveyard. In smaller 
places of worship, this office is often combined with that of verger. In larger 
buildings, such as cathedrals, a team of sextons may be employed.

A sextant is an instrument used to measure the angle between any two visible 
objects. Its primary use is to determine the angle between a celestial object 
and the horizon which is known as the object's altitude.

[Wikipedia]

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the 
> sky.
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Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 24

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: GPS recommendation? (Pete Lindsley via Texascavers)
   2. Re: GPS recommendation? (Charles Loving via Texascavers)
   3. Re: GPS recommendation? (c via Texascavers)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:41:35 -0600
From: Pete Lindsley via Texascavers 
To: Frank Binney 
Cc: Texas Cavers List 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?
Message-ID: <37b9fcf9-e713-43b9-a3eb-b195c7aa9...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Frank, my comments.

1. Garmin has been the best for many years now, and is better supported by 
other software because they published their format before the others.
2. Some Garmin models allow you to take 10,000 track log points, which can 
later be downloaded. You can specify the distance increment or a time increment 
on the track log points (on some models) which makes it useful for making maps 
after you download them. WALLS supports Garmin downloads.
3. The larger units are better for old eyes, plus they float if you are a 
boater or hike along water sources. My current favorite is the Garmin 76CSx 
(which is probably out of production now).
4. Each Garmin track point has the time stamp plus the X, Y & Z location. Some 
other units only have the "change" from the starting track point, and do not 
provide a stand-alone location on each track record.
5. I use MacGPS on a Mac to interface with Garmin units. They have a good 
package for 7.5 minute USGS & FS quads for each state plus other areas.  
[http://www.macgpspro.com/index.php?id=141] Sorry no Mexico quads yet, but you 
could ask them. They also offer an iPhone product (iHike) and an iPad sailing 
product (iSailGPS) for the units with GPS.

 - Pete

On Jul 25, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Frank Binney via Texascavers wrote:

I’ve decided it’s finally time to abandon my luddite ways and join the GPS 
generation. Any recommendations on the best model for a caver/backpacker/river 
runner to buy? And is any particular model or brand better for use in Mexico?
Thanks,
Frank
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:19:43 -0500
From: Charles Loving via Texascavers 
To: Pete Lindsley , Cavers Texas

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the
sky. All that 6.6, 9.9. and such is total marketing. A brunton and a sexton
and who the hell needs to be that precise anyway. Anal retentives. Hell
Columbus had a real crappy map and made it so what it all this fuss about
iPhones and Gamin units. Just look around and see where you are. Hmmm, a
hill, hmmm a town, Oh my god a sign….


On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Pete Lindsley via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Frank, my comments.
>
> 1. Garmin has been the best for many years now, and is better supported by
> other software because they published their format before the others.
> 2. Some Garmin models allow you to take 10,000 track log points, which can
> later be downloaded. You can specify the distance increment or a time
> increment on the track log points (on some models) which makes it useful
> for making maps after you download them. WALLS supports Garmin downloads.
> 3. The larger units are better for old eyes, plus they float if you are a
> boater or hike along water sources. My current favorite is the Garmin 76CSx
> (which is probably out of production now).
> 4. Each Garmin track point has the time stamp plus the X, Y & Z location.
> Some other units only have the "change" from the starting track point, and
> do not provide a stand-alone location on each track record.
> 5. I use MacGPS on a Mac to interface with Garmin units. They have a good
> package for 7.5 minute USGS & FS quads for each state plus other area

Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?

[c via Texascavers]

chas,

I am surprised you have a cell phone and a computer






Sent from Windows Mail





From: Charles Loving via Texascavers
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎July‎ ‎26‎, ‎2014 ‎3‎:‎19‎ ‎PM
To: Pete Lindsley, Cavers Texas





Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the 
sky. All that 6.6, 9.9. and such is total marketing. A brunton and a sexton and 
who the hell needs to be that precise anyway. Anal retentives. Hell Columbus 
had a real crappy map and made it so what it all this fuss about iPhones and 
Gamin units. Just look around and see where you are. Hmmm, a hill, hmmm a town, 
Oh my god a sign…. 




On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Pete Lindsley via Texascavers 
 wrote:


Frank, my comments.



1. Garmin has been the best for many years now, and is better supported by 
other software because they published their format before the others.

2. Some Garmin models allow you to take 10,000 track log points, which can 
later be downloaded. You can specify the distance increment or a time increment 
on the track log points (on some models) which makes it useful for making maps 
after you download them. WALLS supports Garmin downloads.

3. The larger units are better for old eyes, plus they float if you are a 
boater or hike along water sources. My current favorite is the Garmin 76CSx 
(which is probably out of production now).

4. Each Garmin track point has the time stamp plus the X, Y & Z location. Some 
other units only have the "change" from the starting track point, and do not 
provide a stand-alone location on each track record.

5. I use MacGPS on a Mac to interface with Garmin units. They have a good 
package for 7.5 minute USGS & FS quads for each state plus other areas.  
[http://www.macgpspro.com/index.php?id=141] Sorry no Mexico quads yet, but you 
could ask them. They also offer an iPhone product (iHike) and an iPad sailing 
product (iSailGPS) for the units with GPS.




 - Pete






On Jul 25, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Frank Binney via Texascavers wrote:



I’ve decided it’s finally time to abandon my luddite ways and join the GPS 
generation. Any recommendations on the best model for a caver/backpacker/river 
runner to buy? And is any particular model or brand better for use in Mexico?

Thanks,

Frank

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Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Get a compas and a sexton so you won't have to be beholding to magic in the
sky. All that 6.6, 9.9. and such is total marketing. A brunton and a sexton
and who the hell needs to be that precise anyway. Anal retentives. Hell
Columbus had a real crappy map and made it so what it all this fuss about
iPhones and Gamin units. Just look around and see where you are. Hmmm, a
hill, hmmm a town, Oh my god a sign….


On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Pete Lindsley via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Frank, my comments.
>
> 1. Garmin has been the best for many years now, and is better supported by
> other software because they published their format before the others.
> 2. Some Garmin models allow you to take 10,000 track log points, which can
> later be downloaded. You can specify the distance increment or a time
> increment on the track log points (on some models) which makes it useful
> for making maps after you download them. WALLS supports Garmin downloads.
> 3. The larger units are better for old eyes, plus they float if you are a
> boater or hike along water sources. My current favorite is the Garmin 76CSx
> (which is probably out of production now).
> 4. Each Garmin track point has the time stamp plus the X, Y & Z location.
> Some other units only have the "change" from the starting track point, and
> do not provide a stand-alone location on each track record.
> 5. I use MacGPS on a Mac to interface with Garmin units. They have a good
> package for 7.5 minute USGS & FS quads for each state plus other areas.  [
> http://www.macgpspro.com/index.php?id=141] Sorry no Mexico quads yet, but
> you could ask them. They also offer an iPhone product (iHike) and an iPad
> sailing product (iSailGPS) for the units with GPS.
>
>  - Pete
>
> On Jul 25, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Frank Binney via Texascavers wrote:
>
> I’ve decided it’s finally time to abandon my luddite ways and join the GPS
> generation. Any recommendations on the best model for a
> caver/backpacker/river runner to buy? And is any particular model or brand
> better for use in Mexico?
> Thanks,
> Frank
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> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] GPS recommendation?

[Pete Lindsley via Texascavers]

Frank, my comments.

1. Garmin has been the best for many years now, and is better supported by 
other software because they published their format before the others.
2. Some Garmin models allow you to take 10,000 track log points, which can 
later be downloaded. You can specify the distance increment or a time increment 
on the track log points (on some models) which makes it useful for making maps 
after you download them. WALLS supports Garmin downloads.
3. The larger units are better for old eyes, plus they float if you are a 
boater or hike along water sources. My current favorite is the Garmin 76CSx 
(which is probably out of production now).
4. Each Garmin track point has the time stamp plus the X, Y & Z location. Some 
other units only have the "change" from the starting track point, and do not 
provide a stand-alone location on each track record.
5. I use MacGPS on a Mac to interface with Garmin units. They have a good 
package for 7.5 minute USGS & FS quads for each state plus other areas.  
[http://www.macgpspro.com/index.php?id=141] Sorry no Mexico quads yet, but you 
could ask them. They also offer an iPhone product (iHike) and an iPad sailing 
product (iSailGPS) for the units with GPS.

 - Pete

On Jul 25, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Frank Binney via Texascavers wrote:

I’ve decided it’s finally time to abandon my luddite ways and join the GPS 
generation. Any recommendations on the best model for a caver/backpacker/river 
runner to buy? And is any particular model or brand better for use in Mexico?
Thanks,
Frank
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Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 23

[via Texascavers]

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon (Gill Ediger via Texascavers)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:47:37 -0700
From: Gill Ediger via Texascavers 
To: SWR Cavers Mailing List , Cave Texas

Cc: Karen Lindsley , "DAVIS, DONALD G."
, "power_lou...@hotmail.com"

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] Daughters of Radon
Message-ID:
<1406382457.85601.yahoomail...@web185003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I was there. It is true. 
--Ediger


On Friday, July 25, 2014 3:07 PM, "dirt...@comcast.net"  
wrote:
 


Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread
The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery of high 
levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave management 
folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted in the first ever 
Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975). This was arranged by 
the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park Service to provide federal 
managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest Service with guidance. For the first 
time on a national level federal resource managers became aware that caves 
really needed managing, and that cavers were a significant source for useful 
information.
 The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the majority of 
their time underground.
 This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in 
Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were both small 
and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" roaring fire in the 
sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium attendees. I remember Pete 
and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, and all the CRF leadership present.
 DirtDoc




 When I worked there in 1970-71, I 
don't recall that any radon monitoring had yet been started.  During the 
winter, a draft of cold outside air falls into the lower part of the 
entrance, moves down along the floor of the Main Corridor and into the 
lower part of the Big Room, then warms and recirculates back outside along 
the ceiling.  I would expect radon levels to be very low along the tour 
route while that cold-trap circulation is going on.  Did the people doing 
the monitoring say how significant were the levels they found?

--Donald

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End of Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 23
**

Re: [SWR] Daughters of Radon

[Gill Ediger]

I was there. It is true. 
--Ediger


On Friday, July 25, 2014 3:07 PM, "dirt...@comcast.net"  
wrote:
 


Daughters of Radon - following the Natural Trap thread
The monitoring in Carlsbad started around 1975 or 1976. The discovery of high 
levels of radon in Carlsbad Caverns caught all the federal cave management 
folks off guard. The "Daughters of Radon" concern resulted in the first ever 
Cave Management Symposium in Albuquerque (October 1975). This was arranged by 
the Cave Research Foundation and the National Park Service to provide federal 
managers - Park Service, BLM, and Forest Service with guidance. For the first 
time on a national level federal resource managers became aware that caves 
really needed managing, and that cavers were a significant source for useful 
information.
 The initial concern was for the federal employees who spent the majority of 
their time underground.
 This meeting happened to coincide with the first real Balloon Fiesta in 
Albuquerque. Sandy and I drove up from Alpine, Texas. Our kids were both small 
and were tremulously impressed with the "flying dragons" roaring fire in the 
sky over our heads. So were most of the symposium attendees. I remember Pete 
and Karen Lindsley, Will White, Jack Hess, and all the CRF leadership present.
 DirtDoc




 When I worked there in 1970-71, I 
don't recall that any radon monitoring had yet been started.  During the 
winter, a draft of cold outside air falls into the lower part of the 
entrance, moves down along the floor of the Main Corridor and into the 
lower part of the Big Room, then warms and recirculates back outside along 
the ceiling.  I would expect radon levels to be very low along the tour 
route while that cold-trap circulation is going on.  Did the people doing 
the monitoring say how significant were the levels they found?

--Donald

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