Re: [Texascavers] Posting to Texascavers Digest
It's probably just a setting, let me look into it later. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Alex Sproul via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Geeze, Louise! (Not you, Louise.) Can't you people trim your posts? My scrolling finger is worn out! And why am I getting 5 TC *digests* in a single day? (Actually postmarked within 90 minutes...) Shouldn't they be going out *once*, at midnight? Alex ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 38
Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to texascavers@texascavers.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com You can reach the person managing the list at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Texascavers digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: [SWR] BLM reopens Wyoming's Natural Trap Cave (CJ Elron via Texascavers) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 23:55:12 -0600 From: CJ Elron via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: Alex Sproul imoca...@comcast.net, Texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com, s...@caver.net s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] BLM reopens Wyoming's Natural Trap Cave Message-ID: col125-w20dd9cdad10c433cd99c4eb4...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 THANKS Alex! I have Barry's snail mail address and will print off the photos that you emailed and send them to him. I have fond memories of Natural Trap Cave and am grateful to have been able to spend a summer working there before there was a grate over the entrance. My first trip to Natural Trap was in 1969 with the NSS Convention at Lovell. I knew then that I wanted to go back and investigate what kind of critters may have fallen into the pit over the years, and luckily was able to convince the University of Montana to let me do my Master's thesis there in 1972. Four of us spent that whole summer in Natural Trap digging a test pit - Barry, me, a Crow Indian named Scrap-Iron Flatlip, and another guy named Bill. We found pieces of all manner of Pleistocene animals, including dire wolf, camels, early horse and mammoth. Thanks again for sending the photos of Barry. I am sure he will get a kick out of seeing them! CJ From: imoca...@comcast.net To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 20:21:54 -0400 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] [SWR] BLM reopens Wyoming's Natural Trap Cave CC: cjr4...@hotmail.com; lmcn...@austin.rr.com Barry Fuller is alive and well and living in Shoshoni, Wyoming with his wife Brenda. Hi, CJ!! I didn't realize that was you! I knew you were married, but didn't recognize your hubby's name! If you're in touch with Barry, I hope you'll share with him my attached slide from July 1974! Alex Sproul -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140729/f93abfc3/attachment-0001.html -- Subject: Digest Footer ___ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- End of Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 38 **
Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 34
Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to texascavers@texascavers.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com You can reach the person managing the list at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Texascavers digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Printed Word (Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers) 2. Re: The Printed Word (Charles Loving via Texascavers) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 07:52:01 -0500 From: Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: canbo40n9fgmyizuo++fdkqh8buw9fvexqvksxiyx4tqifty...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oh chill, I'm just kidding ... ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org -- Lyndon Tiu -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/c9785603/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 07:52:18 -0500 From: Charles Loving via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org, Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: CAJfDpxvX6Lx87f9fvC1cwNaSDq=jd2mym3spdc50s6ltqt_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 OK good. Where do you want the Adventures of Karst Walker? On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights
[Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Ouch ! Touchy . Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine. As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. Regarding It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it., perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes
Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Ouch ! Touchy . Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine. As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. Regarding It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it., perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the
Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” ― Socrates http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/275648.Socrates On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Ouch ! Touchy . Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine. As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. Regarding It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it., perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they
Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Tsk tsk... It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways too ;-) -Stefan From: Texascavers [texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving via Texascavers [texascavers@texascavers.com] Sent: 30 July 2014 19:06 To: jerryatkin; Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Ouch ! Touchy . Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine. As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. Regarding It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it., perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. jill orr 210.399.6762tel:210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.comhttp://jillorr.businesscatalyst.com Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto
[Texascavers] Balankanche Cave, Yucatan
The Washington Post, June 27, '14, announced the death of archaeologist Dr. George E. Stuart., 79. He participated in most of the significant investigations of Mesoamerica archaeology sites, including the Mayan ruins of Coba, Dzibilchaltun and Balankanche Caves. He was the author of several books on the Maya. He was an energetic field worker, comfortable in excavations at remote sites. He worked for National Geographic for 38 years. Preston in western KYWe have visited the above sites several times and recommend the next time you are down there. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Balankanche Cave, Yucatan
George Stuart and I became friends in his later years. He was instrumental in getting funding from some of the early cave archeology projects that I worked on. He really liked the cave work we were doing. George was a great story teller and he had LOTS of really amazing to tell stories about. Here is a link to a video of George exploring Balankanche. http://mayaglypher.com/2014/05/31/george-stuart-explores-balankanche-cave-yucatan/ Allan From: Preston Forsythe via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:08 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Balankanche Cave, Yucatan The Washington Post, June 27, '14, announced the death of archaeologist Dr. George E. Stuart., 79. He participated in most of the significant investigations of Mesoamerica archaeology sites, including the Mayan ruins of Coba, Dzibilchaltun and Balankanche Caves. He was the author of several books on the Maya. He was an energetic field worker, comfortable in excavations at remote sites. He worked for National Geographic for 38 years. Preston in western KYWe have visited the above sites several times and recommend the next time you are down there. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 32
Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to texascavers@texascavers.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com You can reach the person managing the list at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Texascavers digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Printed Word (via Texascavers) 2. Re: The Printed Word (Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:41:12 + From: via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: mark.al...@l-3com.com, texascavers@texascavers.com, mjca...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM To: mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/905c420d/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 06:48:28 -0500 From: Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: Mark Alman mark.al...@l-3com.com, Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: CANbO40Ovz6O1=A7dGqDi=snvb1zatwam-xgphadeszzoeb9...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives
Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 31
] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 06:58 To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:37:44 + From: via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: mjca...@gmail.com, texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/2396fb8b/attachment.html -- Subject: Digest Footer ___ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- End of Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 31 **
Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] BLM reopens Wyoming's Natural Trap Cave
THANKS Alex! I have Barry's snail mail address and will print off the photos that you emailed and send them to him. I have fond memories of Natural Trap Cave and am grateful to have been able to spend a summer working there before there was a grate over the entrance. My first trip to Natural Trap was in 1969 with the NSS Convention at Lovell. I knew then that I wanted to go back and investigate what kind of critters may have fallen into the pit over the years, and luckily was able to convince the University of Montana to let me do my Master's thesis there in 1972. Four of us spent that whole summer in Natural Trap digging a test pit - Barry, me, a Crow Indian named Scrap-Iron Flatlip, and another guy named Bill. We found pieces of all manner of Pleistocene animals, including dire wolf, camels, early horse and mammoth. Thanks again for sending the photos of Barry. I am sure he will get a kick out of seeing them! CJ From: imoca...@comcast.net To: Texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 20:21:54 -0400 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] [SWR] BLM reopens Wyoming's Natural Trap Cave CC: cjr4...@hotmail.com; lmcn...@austin.rr.com Barry Fuller is alive and well and living in Shoshoni, Wyoming with his wife Brenda. Hi, CJ!! I didn't realize that was you! I knew you were married, but didn't recognize your hubby's name! If you're in touch with Barry, I hope you'll share with him my attached slide from July 1974! Alex Sproul ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] Texas Caver
As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth it. The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put in it. I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! TL;DR Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. /end rant -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth it. The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put in it. I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! TL;DR Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. /end rant -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
No, No, Nooo! Save them for the Caver, Mr. Loving, sir, please Here's an idea-- I saw multiple people do interesting things at NSS Convention and maybe no one wants to write a real trip report but multiple brief vignettes by several attendees, collected into a glimpses of Convention article could be pretty entertaining. I'd write up my favorite fooled me moment. Any takers? Jacqui On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth it. The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put in it. I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! TL;DR Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. /end rant -- Go find out! -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving karst walker comic.jpgWalker 2_edited-1.jpgKarst 1 1.jpgKW 2 1.jpg___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] My scrolling finger is worn out!
In a message dated 7/30/2014 11:31:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, texascavers@texascavers.com writes: Geeze, Louise! (Not you, Louise.) Can't you people trim your posts? My scrolling finger is worn out! And why am I getting 5 TC digests in a single day? (Actually postmarked within 90 minutes...) Shouldn't they be going out once, at midnight? Alex Thank you Alex. Allow me to add that no one should ever post a mystery link, much less inexplicably respond to whatever was in the mystery link. Aside from bad manners, I believe this babbling bullshit is the inevitable result of the proliferation of social media through hand held electronic devices, a disease which is dumbing down both our communications and ourselves. As a result I am just about to give up on this list and the others to which I subscribe. Try this: Sit down ONCE A DAY at your computer (Not your cell phone!) in the hope that something interesting has been posted. If and when you choose to respond begin by stripping each and every impertinent item from the post then respond in a cogent manner using complete sentences with correct punctuation. It is not difficult to do so. The fundamentals of this technique are taught to grade school children. Dare I suggest an attempt at craft? Is it too much to hope that I might occasionally be treated to the artful retelling of a tale, or perhaps a witticism? I would prefer a description of events more elucidating than, ...it was dark. We turned left and then we turned right. Most of you are old farts, you have plenty of time, so try doing it right! Sleazeweazel___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [PBSS] CREE lights
Those black and red lights Alex and I have are CREE. They get pretty hot and only last about 2 hours (the type we have) but they work well. I think the one I have is on it's last leg after many years of caving. I got it wet in Abyss climbing out the waterfall last time we went there. 3000 lumens sounds awesome, is that a handheld or head mount? Also, that spotlight I have has 3 CREE bulbs. I've smashed it up pretty good now but it's also been pretty solid on many trips. It's suppose to be 10 hours on high. -Original Message- From: PBSS [mailto:pbss-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:21 PM To: s...@caver.net; Cave Texas; MoCaves; ilspe...@caver.net; usacav...@caver.net; Cave List; sandiagro...@caver.net Subject: [PBSS] CREE lights Greetings, Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise... It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary though... It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... Bill Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pbss ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights
Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human being. With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam light!!! Peter On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote: Greetings, Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise... It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary though... It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... Bill cree1.jpgcree2.jpg___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [PBSS] [Mocaves] CREE lights
I have researched and use the CREE LED chipsCREE is the micro chip that produces the light...not really a brand of light what is it you are wanting to know? most of the Chinese CREE lights are NOT the lumen levels they say they are... 3000 lumens would fry an egg from a foot away...haha also if its true 3000 lumens you would never get 48hrs light from a 2800mAh battery I have true 750 Lumen CREE lights and I get about 30-45 min on High for a 4000 mAh battery check out this web site for a comparison of almost all Caver approved lights https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ApmsNoHgwWjJdC1FNTJFSEFUckRXQXphTXYxeFhNREEoutput=html it comes from a sight called candlepower.com everything and more about lights On July 30, 2014 at 12:20 PM Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: Greetings, Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise... It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary though... It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... Bill ___ Mocaves mailing list moca...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mocaves ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pbss ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] $ 500 offer
I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver. I offer a price of $ 500.This would include all future legal rights to the name, The Texas Caver, along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc. Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities Newsletter, ( R.I.P.) David Locklear ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment ) NSS # 27639 ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave
Heard about this on NPR. Not sure if it's been posted already. Any cavers involved? http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-fossils-wyoming-idUSKBN0FU07T20140725 Cheers, Denise ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
You are absolutely right I don’t know what to do. Before I left I asked and asked for articles and photos. I've asked people to help solicit articles. I put so much time into layout and editing, getting it printed and mailed I feel like its pushing the limit to have to spend the time asking and following up and asking again. But I'm preaching to the choir. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 06:58 To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Sorry y'all for the whine This was supposed to be private reply But if it helps get articles its worth it! jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jill Orr via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:31 To: 'Mimi Jasek'; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word You are absolutely right I don’t know what to do. Before I left I asked and asked for articles and photos. I've asked people to help solicit articles. I put so much time into layout and editing, getting it printed and mailed I feel like its pushing the limit to have to spend the time asking and following up and asking again. But I'm preaching to the choir. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 06:58 To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM To: mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Oh chill, I'm just kidding ... ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
OK good. Where do you want the Adventures of Karst Walker? On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Please send all articles to Jill Orr! She'll be thrilled! Jill: edi...@cavetexas.org On 30 July 2014 07:52, Charles Loving lovingi...@gmail.com wrote: OK good. Where do you want the Adventures of Karst Walker? On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and *social networking*. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On Behalf Of *via Texascavers *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM *To:* mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
I send in articles every issue. I have lots more, but I assume you all want some diversity in the Texas Caver instead of just articles written by me. Ah, who am I kidding? My articles are incredibly witty and intelligent and thought-provoking, so of course everyone wants the entire Texas Caver dedicated to just me. Why would anyone want to hear about Wade McDaniel's TWO separate tire blowouts on the way to Deep Punkin? Or the NSS Convention? Or caving at NSS, like when Aaron Polsky's light fell off at the top of Fantastic Pit, illuminating the drop as it spun down, down, down 586 feet. It fell so long that people had whole conversations while it was falling. It finally went out when it hit the bottom, but when retrieved, still worked! Why would anyone want to hear about that? Much better I write more articles about how a semi-round is NOT called a D biner! Those two different things, people! They are NOT interchangeable! If you need the biner/screwlink for your Frog harness, you need a SEMI-ROUND. A D biner is completely different and WILL NOT WORK! Get it right, you idiots! Agh! (More articles like that, right?) --Bennett From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Heather Tucek via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:53 AM To: Charles Loving; Jill Orr Cc: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Please send all articles to Jill Orr! She'll be thrilled! Jill: edi...@cavetexas.orgmailto:edi...@cavetexas.org On 30 July 2014 07:52, Charles Loving lovingi...@gmail.commailto:lovingi...@gmail.com wrote: OK good. Where do you want the Adventures of Karst Walker? On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to ... and social networking. Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Should read “NSS members”. It’s awfully early. ;) Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.commailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM To: mjca...@gmail.commailto:mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Agreed, Mimi. When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH publications. Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to apathy and social networking. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Y'all's thoughts? Mark -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM To: TexasCavers Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Lyndon Tiu ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.commailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Go find out! -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348tel:%28512%29%20773-1348 trog...@cavechat.orgmailto:trog...@cavechat.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
