Re: [Texascavers] Bat Cave, Florida

[Logan McNatt via Texascavers]

flashlight tour of Alachua Bat Cave on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqsbmc1pwWk

Logan McNatt
lmcn...@austin.rr.com

On 2/12/2015 12:45 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers wrote:

I have been to Alachua Bat Cave, and was also appalled by the disastrous "management" actions that 
Sleaze so eloquently described. In fact, I use this site in my lectures as an example of what not to do. But 
Mixon is a little mistaken, as the cave is now owned by a junior college, not the "government."  
And it's their lawyers that made it so. But we can't point the finger at non-cavers mismanaging caves when 
our own nearby NSS-owned Warrens Cave has one of the most atrocious "gates" that I have ever seen.

Crash

Mobile email from my iPhone


On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 wrote:

Another example of why I always say never let a cave fall into the hands of a 
government agency. -- Mixon

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Re: [Texascavers] Bat Cave, Florida

[Diana Tomchick via Texascavers]

Though generally speaking, "junior colleges" (AKA community colleges) are 
generally owned and run by the local community government.

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biophysics
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)







On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers wrote:

> I have been to Alachua Bat Cave, and was also appalled by the disastrous 
> "management" actions that Sleaze so eloquently described. In fact, I use this 
> site in my lectures as an example of what not to do. But Mixon is a little 
> mistaken, as the cave is now owned by a junior college, not the "government." 
>  And it's their lawyers that made it so. But we can't point the finger at 
> non-cavers mismanaging caves when our own nearby NSS-owned Warrens Cave has 
> one of the most atrocious "gates" that I have ever seen.
>
> Crash
>
> Mobile email from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Another example of why I always say never let a cave fall into the hands of 
>> a government agency. -- Mixon
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.


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Re: [Texascavers] Bat Cave, Florida

[Jim Kennedy via Texascavers]

I have been to Alachua Bat Cave, and was also appalled by the disastrous 
"management" actions that Sleaze so eloquently described. In fact, I use this 
site in my lectures as an example of what not to do. But Mixon is a little 
mistaken, as the cave is now owned by a junior college, not the "government."  
And it's their lawyers that made it so. But we can't point the finger at 
non-cavers mismanaging caves when our own nearby NSS-owned Warrens Cave has one 
of the most atrocious "gates" that I have ever seen.  

Crash

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Another example of why I always say never let a cave fall into the hands of a 
> government agency. -- Mixon
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[Texascavers] Bat Cave, Florida

[Mixon Bill via Texascavers]

Another example of why I always say never let a cave fall into the hands of a 
government agency. -- Mixon

Work is the curse of the drinking class.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

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[Texascavers] Caves envisioned as learning labs

[via Texascavers]

Onceuponatime west of Gainesville FL there was a perfectly good little cave 
 with the unimaginative name of Bat cave. It was out in the middle of 
nowhere in  a wretched sandy pine plantation. There were several entrances, one 
of which was  an easy climbdown and the others small shallow pits, one of 
which enabled a  person to rappel through (that is right, I said through) a car 
that had been  dumped sideways into the pit along with lots of other 
garbage. There were a few  bats, rats, rat snakes, cucarachas, and rumors of 
crayfish. Though small it  worked well as a cave and featured the requisite 
darkness and mud but no  formations to speak of. Other than conceivably falling 
through one of the small  vertical entrances and landing in the mud a few 
feet below the cave posed  no danger whatsoever. It was often visited by 
locals, frat boys, etc so it was  full of beer cans too. For many Floridians it 
was their first and only cave, and  thus a learning experience. Most 
importantly for the purposes of this rant,  the experience was entirely 
unregulated 
and therefore fun.

Then we learned that the cave was going to be purchased by Santa  Fe 
community college to "protect" it so the FSS (Florida Speleological society)  
decided to do a cleanup. It wasn't easy pulling whole autos out of the cave but 
 
we did it. I took special effort to mark and protect the small number of  
worthwhile native plants because I presumed that the wretched loblolly pines  
planted in rows would be removed as part of the restoration. Upon 
completion the  cave was to be used as a "learning lab" which seemed like a 
good idea 
at the  time.
 
The result of the cleanup was that all life forms other than the pine trees 
 were destroyed leaving a biological desert both above and below ground.  
Next the college installed a large restroom facility such as one would  
expect in a large public campground. Then the entire area (remember, there are  
multiple entrances) was completely covered with a huge heavy gauge steel cage 
 that included a spiral staircase going into the walk down entrance. You 
would  have to see it to believe it, like something at a maximum security 
prison for  homicidal child molesters. Then the miniscule property was 
surrounded by a  tall chain link fence with barbed wire. I'm going to guess 
that the  
whole thing cost between one to two million dollars to "protect" a 
completely  worthless hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere.
 
The purpose of all this was to edjumacate geology 101 junior college  
students. What they actually learned was helplessness, docility, and obedience  
to the gods of science if not the facts thereof. I doubt that any of the  
students ever set foot in a cave again. Why bother to do something so  stupid, 
boring, and unpleasant? 
 
>From this I learned not to cooperate with those who wish to gate caves  
except in very specific instances. In a perfect world I would bulldoze down the 
 fence and gate(s), reinstall the old cars and garbage, burn the pine trees 
to  the ground, then use social media to spread the word that the cave has 
been  restored and is open to visitation. Be sure to bring beer and leave 
the cans  behind for they provide important microhabitats for small organisms. 
In time the  site will recover and all will be well.
 
Sleazeweazel___
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Re: [Texascavers] Colorado Bend Project This Weekend!

[Kurt L. Menking via Texascavers]

Kris,

I’m coming Friday nite.  I can bring eggs, sausage, and tortillas for 
breakfast, if you tell me how much to bring.

Kurt

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Kris Pena via Texascavers
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:19 AM
To: cbsp-...@googlegroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Colorado Bend Project This Weekend!


If you're planning on coming to Colorado Bend this weekend and haven't told me 
you want in on any of the group meals, I need to know today to make sure we 
have enough food. Don't forget we'll be in the conference center!

Also, we have a group of college students coming out this weekend. Let me know 
if you want to take charge of them. It will likely involve leading them into 
one of the easy caves after they complete a volunteer project.
On Feb 9, 2015 9:55 PM, "Kris Pena" 
mailto:kapkanga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The February trip of the Colorado Bend Karst Project is this weekend and the 
weather looks like it's going to be great! We'll be in the CONFERENCE CENTER 
all weekend, so don't go to caver camp. The combo to the blue temporary lock at 
the Gorman Falls trailhead is 2287 (spells BATS on a telephone keypad). Leave 
the lock exactly as you found it.  There will be bunks or camping available.

Saturday will be our regular project work day. The TSA Winter Business meeting 
will be Sunday Morning. So come for both if you can!

We'll be doing GROUP MEALS for Saturday breakfast, Saturday dinner, and Sunday 
mornings. Email me if you want in on the group meal so we can estimate how much 
food to bring. Also, let me know if you want to be responsible for one of the 
meals.

As always, the project info sheet is available for more information:
http://cavetexas.org/PDF/CBSP/TSA_CBSP_project_info_sheet2014.pdf

Kris Pena
kapkanga...@gmail.com
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[Texascavers] In search of Alex from Houston who was at Spring Creek Cave last weekend

[Geary Schindel via Texascavers]

Can you please contact me off line, I have a couple of questions for you.

Thanks,

Geary Schindel
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Re: [Texascavers] Colorado Bend Project This Weekend!

[Kris Pena via Texascavers]

If you're planning on coming to Colorado Bend this weekend and haven't told
me you want in on any of the group meals, I need to know today to make sure
we have enough food. Don't forget we'll be in the conference center!

Also, we have a group of college students coming out this weekend. Let me
know if you want to take charge of them. It will likely involve leading
them into one of the easy caves after they complete a volunteer project.
On Feb 9, 2015 9:55 PM, "Kris Pena"  wrote:

> The February trip of the Colorado Bend Karst Project is this weekend and
> the weather looks like it's going to be great! *We'll be in the
> CONFERENCE CENTER all weekend, so don't go to caver camp.* The combo to
> the blue temporary lock at the Gorman Falls trailhead is 2287 (spells BATS
> on a telephone keypad). Leave the lock exactly as you found it.  There will
> be bunks or camping available.
>
> Saturday will be our regular project work day. The TSA Winter Business
> meeting will be Sunday Morning. So come for both if you can!
>
> We'll be doing GROUP MEALS for Saturday breakfast, Saturday dinner, and
> Sunday mornings. Email me if you want in on the group meal so we can
> estimate how much food to bring. Also, let me know if you want to be
> responsible for one of the meals.
>
> As always, the project info sheet is available for more information:
> http://cavetexas.org/PDF/CBSP/TSA_CBSP_project_info_sheet2014.pdf
>
> Kris Pena
> kapkanga...@gmail.com
>
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