[Texascavers] TCMA Election

[Linda Palit via Texascavers]

TCMA Board of Director Ballots will be arriving in the mail to all members
in good standing early this week. Please send the ballots back promptly.
They must be postmarked no later than November 10. They are already
stamped, so it is easy. Statements from the candidates are on theTCMA
webpage, tcmacaves.org.

Thank you,
Linda Palit
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Re: [Texascavers] Tags for Rigging Anchors

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

  Such ID tags for anchors have been discussed many times over the years,
but I've never seen them implemented. I don't know why - probably too
much trouble to coordinate, produce and distribute such tags.

  The circumstances where rigging tags would be useful are variable. In an
on-going project, there is usually enough institutional memory to know
at least roughly when anchors were set and how good they are. In all of
the projects I have been involved with in the last 20 years or so, we
have adopted stainless steel bolts, hangers and quick links. As long as
stainless anchors are set properly and kept tight, they last essentially
forever. In these situations, tags are not needed.

 In popular sport caves, on the other hand, one typically has no idea
where anchors came from. This is the situation where some sort of ID
would be most useful, but unless one group took it upon themselves to rig
and maintain permanent anchors on specific routes, there would be no
consistency or trust engendered. This leads to bolt forests at pitch
heads and rapid depletion of optimal rigging sites.

  In order to prevent such a proliferation of bolts, there has been a
program in England and perhaps elsewhere in Europe to install long
glue-in anchors on popular underground routes. These are well-publicized
so that people know they are reliable. Even then, I don't know whether
or not they put ID tags on those anchors. Another consideration is who
pays for such anchors. They aren't cheap.

  The reality is that no matter whether there is a tag or not, stainless,
glue-in or whatever, there will always be people who do not trust an
anchor they have no personal knowledge of. In caves with no access
control, I think bolt proliferation is likely inevitable, especially
given that they are now so easy to install with power drills.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Sun, October 25, 2015 12:04 pm, Robert B via Texascavers wrote:
>
> Seeking opinions...
>
> Within the greater vertical caving community... what are peoples
> opinion to adding a "Tag Plate" to rigging anchors. Especially in a
> cave where a route may justify using or placing rigging at same
> general location.
>
> The Tag Plate would be made from an aluminum strip (maybe another
> material ???) and have such information as placement date, bolt
> manufacturer, type, diameter, depth. Anchor information could be put
> on there too, but may not be needed as one can more easily inspect
> the anchor.
>
> Maybe add a 'Tag #' that could be included in survey notes and map.
>
> This 'Tag Plate' would attach to the anchor/bolt in some manner as to
> not obstruct use. Some sort of wire maybe??? Think heavy industry.
> Every piece of equipment is Tagged.
>
> If a project agrees ahead of time to use the same type of bolts and
> anchors, then Tags could be made ahead of time and installed as
> rigging crew sets each point.
>
> Consider this...
> You are on the rigging team. You come to a point in a cave where you
> must set some anchors.
> You notice three (3) other full sets of anchors.They may be in very
> good looking condition and the location is perfect... BUT???
> Who set these?
> When or how old are they?
> What kind of bolt did they use?
> Is the bolt deep enough, strong enough?
> Is it stainless? Galvanized?
> Is there corrosion due to dissimilar metals that I cant see?
>
> Would a 'Tag' help you in these situations?
> Other info to add to Tag?
>
> Rob Bisset

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[Texascavers] Tags for Rigging Anchors

[Robert B via Texascavers]

Seeking opinions...

Within the greater vertical caving community... what are peoples opinion to
adding a "Tag Plate" to rigging anchors. Especially in a cave where a route
may justify using or placing rigging at same general location.

The Tag Plate would be made from an aluminum strip (maybe another material
???) and have such information as placement date, bolt manufacturer, type,
diameter, depth. Anchor information could be put on there too, but may not
be needed as one can more easily inspect the anchor.

Maybe add a 'Tag #' that could be included in survey notes and map.

This 'Tag Plate' would attach to the anchor/bolt in some manner as to not
obstruct use. Some sort of wire maybe??? Think heavy industry. Every piece
of equipment is Tagged.

If a project agrees ahead of time to use the same type of bolts and
anchors, then Tags could be made ahead of time and installed as rigging
crew sets each point.

Consider this...
You are on the rigging team. You come to a point in a cave where you must
set some anchors.
You notice three (3) other full sets of anchors.They may be in very good
looking condition and the location is perfect... BUT???
Who set these?
When or how old are they?
What kind of bolt did they use?
Is the bolt deep enough, strong enough?
Is it stainless? Galvanized?
Is there corrosion due to dissimilar metals that I cant see?

Would a 'Tag' help you in these situations?
Other info to add to Tag?

Rob Bisset
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Re: [Texascavers] Tags for Rigging Anchors

[Raymond via Texascavers]

I am certainly no rigging expert, but this sounds like an awesome idea to me.  
If you have the time and energy to do this, then others will have better 
information by which to judge whether this anchor is still good at whatever 
point in the future they encounter it.


--Ray Hertel



From: Texascavers  on behalf of Robert B 
via Texascavers 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:04 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Tags for Rigging Anchors

Seeking opinions...

Within the greater vertical caving community... what are peoples opinion to 
adding a "Tag Plate" to rigging anchors. Especially in a cave where a route may 
justify using or placing rigging at same general location.

The Tag Plate would be made from an aluminum strip (maybe another material ???) 
and have such information as placement date, bolt manufacturer, type, diameter, 
depth. Anchor information could be put on there too, but may not be needed as 
one can more easily inspect the anchor.

Maybe add a 'Tag #' that could be included in survey notes and map.

This 'Tag Plate' would attach to the anchor/bolt in some manner as to not 
obstruct use. Some sort of wire maybe??? Think heavy industry. Every piece of 
equipment is Tagged.

If a project agrees ahead of time to use the same type of bolts and anchors, 
then Tags could be made ahead of time and installed as rigging crew sets each 
point.

Consider this...
You are on the rigging team. You come to a point in a cave where you must set 
some anchors.
You notice three (3) other full sets of anchors.They may be in very good 
looking condition and the location is perfect... BUT???
Who set these?
When or how old are they?
What kind of bolt did they use?
Is the bolt deep enough, strong enough?
Is it stainless? Galvanized?
Is there corrosion due to dissimilar metals that I cant see?

Would a 'Tag' help you in these situations?
Other info to add to Tag?

Rob Bisset





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