Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hope this isn't too disjointed, but trying to type an inline response, to a response, to a response, was getting confusing for me. Though some people actively participate in SWR, most only do once every few years, and some just try to keep up with events by reading emails and newsletters. The lack of a quorum for most SWR issues is necessary to get anything done. As far as caving vs SWR meetings goes, I caved at the last SWR because I am horribly stubborn that we should have caving. It was pooptastic! A trip report is in the latest Southwestern Cavers for your armchair enjoyment. I will be missing this SWR for a previously scheduled cave trip, and expect the same for the next, as of now still unscheduled meeting. The internet is still in it's infancy here. I am laughing heartily and will say that since we can't even put specific meeting locations on the web, there is no way we will get past loud paranoia to put any kind of voting on the web.The was some recent surprise that there were already a bunch of existing unused liaison contacts on the webpage (I'm one!) and there is no decision on what to do about that yet. A liaison is a person who helps organizations or groups to work together and provide information to each other (Mirriam Webster). I guess a FOIA sorta does that. Yes, BLM could communicate better with us. but NM BLM is the only management agency response I have seen to the OK bat across the country. Seriously, our non-responsive agency is the only one to have responded and it was to SWR members directly. There has been a (limited) dialog in the closure issue, we had two meetings more than anywhere else in the country. And with the 20 year ago fee demo debacle added in, yes, SWR has done a good job of being a nest of fire ants to get work done in the end. Whether or not is was a mistake, it is done. And heck, Wikipedia says Ant bites are often said to have curative properties. Jen ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Re: [azregion] Background on SWR FOIA
This is clearly an emotional time but as an honorary member of the SWR I am a bit disappointed that cavers are descending to the level of disrespect and misinformation that we feel agencies have been giving to us. There is no MOU stating that agencies have to take the advice of cavers when it comes to how they manage their caves. Personally, I'm pretty happy that NM has had only targeted closures and that those of us who can clean our clothes have been able to explore about 10+ miles of virgin cave in a hibernacula. Even Aaron's friend who is ready to give up on caving in NM is on the proposal for the next expedition. We might be mad, we might be right, but we shouldn't be cutting off our nose to spite our face. Wasting the BLM's time by using the CBDs tactics isn't going to get recreational caving into those 28 caves any faster. Jen. Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 20:40:33 -0600 From: casto...@gmail.com To: diamond...@pvtnetworks.net; power_lou...@hotmail.com; s...@caver.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Re: [azregion] Background on SWR FOIA Exactly. On 05/23/2014 19:34, Lynda James Sánchez wrote: I would think that as long as a letter is respectful and concerned it will make a difference if dozens or hundreds show up. If done in this way it should not be considered unprofessional and bordering on bullying.It is a citizen’s right to speak out and should not be taken personally. Mostly these folks do not like to read them, as it makes more work for them, however, that is part of their job and we pay their salaries. It is the beauty of this country, or should be anyway. Heartfelt comments should not be feared but may even provide an opportunity for these officials to point out to their bosses the pending situation, problems and/or possible solutions. Lynda From: Louise Power Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:34 PM To: Stephen Fleming ; NM Caver List ; texas cavers Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Re: [azregion] Background on SWR FOIA I had the opportunity to talk to Aaron Stockton, Cave Specialist at the Carlsbad Field Office. He was very nice and told me that many of the closed caves are being considered for reopening. He also told me that about ten of the caves that were closed were already under a closure order; that any gated cave requires a closure order, especially a cave like Ft. Stanton Cave, which is a hibernaculum for a special status species. He also said that many of the closed caves are being managed under cooperative management and cost share agreements. He said that the district gave the Ft. Stanton study group (don't know what their official name is) $100,000 this year to help with their studies. I found him helpful and nice and informative. He also agreed with me that inundating the State Director with emails is no way to get him on their side. This issue is already on his radar. As you well know, we feds operate at a snails pace in the best of times. Venting one's spleen on a federal official doesn't make them faster or more cooperative. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Organ Mts - Desert Peaks National Monument designated by Obama
Geronimo cave is in this area right? From: gypca...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 13:43:47 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Organ Pipe - Desert Peaks National Monument designated by Obama Here's the information from the Conservation Lands Foundation: http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=9e17b741-fc16-44b8-8edd-6fb732f9e27fc=899669d0-1eca-11e3-964b-d4ae5275dbeach=89e218d0-1eca-11e3-968d-d4ae5275dbea Steve Peerman Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] GS7 at El Malpais
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/369618000 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Oklahoma removed from list of suspected bat fungus areas
Yep. But, that is the only huge example I know of. The point has recently been made to me, that if the method of testing for the OK bat gave an error, it is now unclear how accurate any of the data on the spread from those years can be. The rumors of suspicious jumps are now even harder to document accurately. We will never know for sure how that first bat got infected, so I personally think of human spread as possible but unlikely. We know WNS is spread bat-to-bat and bat-to-cave-to-bat. Biologists can collect spores on gear placed in caves. We know cleaning our gear will reduce the possibility of human transmission of this or future cave impacts, and other than donating to the http://www.caves.org/WNS/Rapid_Response.shtml research fund, is about the only feel good thing most cavers can do. (Sorry for the shameless plug.) Though Indiana's bats didn't die immediately after 2007 convention, it could be for regional bat roost reasons not related to whether or not humans brought it there. Though lots of research has been done in the last few years, we still don't really have published proof of how it is spread or why some bats die and some don't. If you go to Convention this year, please decon before and after, and in between. Whatever the local requirements are, the local hibernating bats will appreciate your efforts. No matter how the public interprets the science, agencies still have the right to manage their lands how they see fit. As far as I can find, they have no requirement to ask us for advice. Cavers and agencies have to learn how to respect each other in order to move towards our common goals of saving the bats, saving the caves(for some agencies), and (for even less agencies) considering recreation as a resource. I would like to state politely that I feel this needs to be a two way street of respect and information. Jen. Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 16:37:23 -0400 To: s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Oklahoma removed from list of suspected bat fungus areas I have pointed this out before, but it bears repeating. Humans _must_ not be a very good vector for transmitting WNS because the NSS Convention was held in Indiana in 2007, the year after WNS appeared in the Northeast. No one was doing decon then, and there were surely cavers from affected areas caving in Indiana during the convention. Nevertheless it took over 2 years before WNS showed up in Indiana, much more in line with patterns of bat migrations and the natural spread of WNS south and west from New England. If humans were a good vector, it would have jumped to Indiana immediately. Mark At 01:58 PM 5/13/2014, michael queen wrote: I have a hard time seeing humans as a significant vector in the spread of WNS, and have seen no evidence that supports this as a reality, not just a possibility. This includes the initial jump across the Atlantic. If humans are a minor factor in the spread then we may expect the disease to run its course as it is spread by major vectors (bat-to-bat). Likewise, where lands in the southeast are owned by a number of entities (USFS, NPS, state lands, private lands, etc), closing any one could not possibly contain the disease. What is as disturbing as the rapid spread of WNS is the seeming bias introduced in its study. We hear repeatedly how humans are a vector even as they ignore any and all suggestions to the contrary, as for instance the paper on geographic translocation in bats. Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] FW: [NSSwest] Digest Number 1667[1 Attachment]
I am forwarding this message from Lisa Bauman, please respond to her if interested lisabauma...@gmail.com. She is putting together a publication for a Women's caving event in August in Idaho, more info at https://www.facebook.com/WomenCavers?fref=ts. thanks 1 SNEAK PEAK by Lisa Bauman lisagoescaving Message 1 SNEAK PEAK Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:45 pm(PST). Posted by: Lisa Bauman lisagoescaving If you intend on being part of the Extraordinary Women Cavers 2014 publication, please let me know tonight. I will be sending out a sneak peak of the design to the women applicants. Remember, your application is due MARCH1, 2014. Application attached -- Lisa A M Bauman Business Marketing, Advertising, and Graphic Design, PSU Secretary, Northwest Caving Association Vice Chairperson, Willamette Valley Grotto Founder of the All-Girls-Cave -Trip Leadership Event Marketing/Design Specialist, NSS Social Media Committee, NSS # 62385 971-271-4586 olisabauma...@gmail.comlisabauma...@gmail.com olisabauma...@gmail.com Attachments with this message: 1 of 1 File(s) 2014 Extraordinary Women Cavers Application.docx ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] FWD: women cavers poll
Lisa Bauman lisagoescaving TAKE SURVEY (women cavers only)If you are a woman please caver take this poll so I can represent you to the NSS. A poll like this has never happened since 1968 when under 100 women responded to a poll made by women cavers in Texas. We all know that the world has changed quite a bit since then. I'm looking at the results and I think you will all be amazed at the patterns I am seeing. I can't wait to share your ideas and demographics with the NSS!! https://www.murvey.com/s?52d71543c17c0a7d1a000cfb Check out this image (attached) to find out what states and counties have been polled so far. Ladies, you have about 60 more days to represent! Also, I only have access to NW region area yahoo forums. Please pass this along so that grottos all over the US can have a chance to be included. THANK YOU! Attachments with this message: 1 of 1 Photo(s) Screenshot_2014-01-19-11-43-55-1.png ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Winter Bird and Bat Festival 1/11/14 (this saturday) 10am - 4pm - Rio Grande Nature Center
Hello Folks, This weekend is the annual Winter Bird and Bat Festival, or as we call it the Winter Bat and Bird Festival! We had a great booth and turnout last year to help educate folks on WNS and raise some research funding to disseminate. Hoping for a great turnout this year as well, there are some talks as well and a poster by the Bosque School students on echolocation study they performed here in the valley. Along with a bat talk from William Gannon. We will have our booth in the main nature center building while the talks are all given in the conference center by the parking lot. Hope to see you out and about and Happy New Year! Justin Justin Stevenson fightwns www.fightwns.org www.facebook.com/fightwns.org cont...@fightwns.org 505.414.8144 Here is a link to info on the event http://www.rgnc.org/Activities.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] icicles and stal
Does anyone know if geologists/mineralogists have looked into this for stalagtites/helictites? Could helictites be more salty than normal soda straws? https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ripple-effect Jen ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Tom Meador Award
I found this University archive of his documents when I searched for Tom Meadors name http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utcah/02558/cah-02558.html. The SWR 50th book http://www.caves.org/region/swr/50th/50th%20Anniv.%20SWR%20book.pdf had a nice section on caver memoriams for those of us who didn't get a chance to meet all the past SWR members. Jen From: caverp...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:32:09 -0600 To: caver...@hot.rr.com CC: s...@caver.net; carl.kun...@cox.net; gv...@nckri.org Subject: Re: [SWR] Tom Meador Award So what happened to the Cave History Collection? Tom collected NM cave history as well as TX caves. Carl Kunath is probably a better representative of Texas Cave History, but perhaps Tom was the better known NM cave historian. - Pete On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:49 AM, James Jasek wrote:Tom was pretty much the Historian for the TSA, and he had a massive collection of memorabilia of caving, photography, postcards, literature of Texas and New Mexico in his collection. Collecting cave history was a passion for Tom. Since collecting an maintaing caving history is our window to the past, I feel the Tom Meador Award should be designed to encourage the collection of Texas caving history. Tom was a personal friend and a really good fellow. James Jasek On Oct 23, 2013, at 12:37 PM, George Veni gv...@nckri.org wrote:I never had the pleasure of meeting Tom but have heard many great things about him. One thing I haven't heard is about him focusing on mentoring new cavers. If SWR will be developing an award for new cavers, then it should be named for someone whose focus was new cavers, as in the case of Chuck Stuehm in Texas. Maybe Tom fits that perfectly. I don't know one way or the other. If not, I suggest naming the award for someone who better fits the award and creating another award named for Tom that would honor him more by being more appropriate to his strengths, interests, and accomplishments. George Sent from my mobile phone George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org Original message From: dirt...@comcast.net Date: 2013/10/23 09:48 (GMT-07:00) To: Harvey DuChene hrduch...@gmail.com Cc: Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net,s...@caver.net,Steve Peerman gypca...@comcast.net,jen . bigredfo...@hotmail.com Subject: [SWR] Tom Meador Award good idea, Harv! DirtDoc From: Harvey DuChene hrduch...@gmail.com To: Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net, Steve Peerman gypca...@comcast.net Cc: s...@caver.net, jen . bigredfo...@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:07:49 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] PBSS member Kayde Hill wins Chuck Stuehm Awardat theTexas Cavers Reunion I recommend naming the award for legendary Tom Meador!___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Rappel of a 16 story bldg Sept 20
Probably a little late to join in this year. www.overtheedgenm.com ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Cave Diving in NM
From a facebook posting The ADM Exploration Team is headed to Santa Rosa, NM to explore Santa Rosa Blue Hole beyond the gate. Press Release from the City of Santa Rosa -http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cave-exploring-scuba-team-to-dive-into-a-new-mexico-mystery-2013-09-11 ADM Exploration Team project page -http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/santarosa/santarosa.html ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Memorial Day Regional info
Geronimo's is on the BLM bat closure list and they are featuring it as an attraction!?! In any case, it sounds like an excellent project for SWR. Jen From: gypca...@comcast.net Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:46:02 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Memorial Day Regional info Hi all, At the spring regional last weekend at Gage, NM, I made a presentation to the region regarding needed restoration work at Geronimo's Cave, just northwest of Las Cruces in the Robledo Mountains. The issue there is that because Geronimo's Cave has been featured as an attraction of the proposed Organ Mtns -- Desert Peaks National Monument (with the location shown on a map put together by the NM Wilderness Alliance), the cave has gotten a lot of traffic lately and has suffered a good deal of vandalism in the form of graffiti. We are afraid that if we don't get the cave cleaned up soon that it will only get worse. The Mesilla Valley Grotto has been working with the Las Cruces BLM office to clean up the trash in the cave, but we need help from the region for cleaning the extensive graffiti. We have agreed to host a regional on the weekend of June 15-16 alongside the Rio Grande River for that purpose. (Note that this is not on Memorial Day, but a few weeks later.) Geronimo's Cave is about a 1.25 mile hike up into the Robledo Mountains across the river from our proposed campsite. The slope is fairly gradual so you don't have to be a mountain goat to get up to the cave. The cave itself is fairly small, but has a lot of history. It also has a ~50' pit in one side passage. At one time, it was likely very well decorated. At the moment, the Rio Grande is bone dry because of the drought. However it is likely that there will be some irrigation water released from Caballo Reservoir at the time of the regional. It probably won't be much, but enough to get your feet wet. Because of the time of the year, and the need to hike to the cave, I'm going to recommend that we have the work trip first thing in the morning (~ 8 am) and postpone the meeting until the evening. I will be sending a map which can be published in the next SW Caver, but the access will be very easy, only a few miles off of Interstate 25. So put June 15 on your calendar, bring tools for cleaning graffiti, bring shade, and come help us bring this cave back to some semblance of its original glory. (Also realize that because of the short time frame between now and the regional date, that this constitutes an official notice of the regional. Spread the word to those who might not be on the SWR mailing list.) Steve Peerman Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Memorial Day Regional info
Geronimo's is on the BLM bat closure list and they are featuring it as an attraction!?! In any case, it sounds like an excellent project for SWR. Jen From: gypca...@comcast.net Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:46:02 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Memorial Day Regional info Hi all, At the spring regional last weekend at Gage, NM, I made a presentation to the region regarding needed restoration work at Geronimo's Cave, just northwest of Las Cruces in the Robledo Mountains. The issue there is that because Geronimo's Cave has been featured as an attraction of the proposed Organ Mtns -- Desert Peaks National Monument (with the location shown on a map put together by the NM Wilderness Alliance), the cave has gotten a lot of traffic lately and has suffered a good deal of vandalism in the form of graffiti. We are afraid that if we don't get the cave cleaned up soon that it will only get worse. The Mesilla Valley Grotto has been working with the Las Cruces BLM office to clean up the trash in the cave, but we need help from the region for cleaning the extensive graffiti. We have agreed to host a regional on the weekend of June 15-16 alongside the Rio Grande River for that purpose. (Note that this is not on Memorial Day, but a few weeks later.) Geronimo's Cave is about a 1.25 mile hike up into the Robledo Mountains across the river from our proposed campsite. The slope is fairly gradual so you don't have to be a mountain goat to get up to the cave. The cave itself is fairly small, but has a lot of history. It also has a ~50' pit in one side passage. At one time, it was likely very well decorated. At the moment, the Rio Grande is bone dry because of the drought. However it is likely that there will be some irrigation water released from Caballo Reservoir at the time of the regional. It probably won't be much, but enough to get your feet wet. Because of the time of the year, and the need to hike to the cave, I'm going to recommend that we have the work trip first thing in the morning (~ 8 am) and postpone the meeting until the evening. I will be sending a map which can be published in the next SW Caver, but the access will be very easy, only a few miles off of Interstate 25. So put June 15 on your calendar, bring tools for cleaning graffiti, bring shade, and come help us bring this cave back to some semblance of its original glory. (Also realize that because of the short time frame between now and the regional date, that this constitutes an official notice of the regional. Spread the word to those who might not be on the SWR mailing list.) Steve Peerman Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: USFS Region 2 Reopens Caves Under EA Plan
Excellent News! The U.S. Forest Service has issued its Environmental Assessment for Region 2, covering Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Kansas. Caves are re-opened under certain conditions in this adaptive management plan: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5414178.pdf Go to the link below and scroll down just a bit to the full Environmental Assessment, plus links to each of the Forest Unit specific plans. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5319926 The current closure order, with exemptions for NSS and CRF members, remains in effect until its expiration date in July. These exemptions are continued under the new plan. In my brief analysis, the Forest Service was very responsive to our formal comments and the input from the Region 2 caving community, especially Derek Bristol and folks from the Colorado Cave Survey: Naturally, the Center for Biological Diversity has already issued a press release blasting the Forest Service for its decision and insulting cavers, too - par for the course: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/white-nose-syndrome-03-27-2013.html Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: USFS Region 2 Reopens Caves Under EA Plan
Excellent News! The U.S. Forest Service has issued its Environmental Assessment for Region 2, covering Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Kansas. Caves are re-opened under certain conditions in this adaptive management plan: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5414178.pdf Go to the link below and scroll down just a bit to the full Environmental Assessment, plus links to each of the Forest Unit specific plans. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5319926 The current closure order, with exemptions for NSS and CRF members, remains in effect until its expiration date in July. These exemptions are continued under the new plan. In my brief analysis, the Forest Service was very responsive to our formal comments and the input from the Region 2 caving community, especially Derek Bristol and folks from the Colorado Cave Survey: Naturally, the Center for Biological Diversity has already issued a press release blasting the Forest Service for its decision and insulting cavers, too - par for the course: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/white-nose-syndrome-03-27-2013.html Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: USFS Region 2 Reopens Caves Under EA Plan
Excellent News! The U.S. Forest Service has issued its Environmental Assessment for Region 2, covering Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Kansas. Caves are re-opened under certain conditions in this adaptive management plan: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5414178.pdf Go to the link below and scroll down just a bit to the full Environmental Assessment, plus links to each of the Forest Unit specific plans. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5319926 The current closure order, with exemptions for NSS and CRF members, remains in effect until its expiration date in July. These exemptions are continued under the new plan. In my brief analysis, the Forest Service was very responsive to our formal comments and the input from the Region 2 caving community, especially Derek Bristol and folks from the Colorado Cave Survey: Naturally, the Center for Biological Diversity has already issued a press release blasting the Forest Service for its decision and insulting cavers, too - par for the course: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2013/white-nose-syndrome-03-27-2013.html Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: WNS Confirmed in South Carolina
-- Forwarded message -- From: Greg Lucas luc...@dnr.sc.gov Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina SPECIAL NEWS RELEASE #13–5 March 11, 2013 DNR News (864) 380-5201 U.S. Fish Wildlife Service (202) 734-8452 Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina The S.C. Department of Natural Resources recently received confirmation that white-nose syndrome, a disease that has killed millions of bats in eastern North American, is now officially in South Carolina. Until now, South Carolina appeared to be insulated from white-nose syndrome (WNS). However, a dead bat discovered recently at Table Rock State Park in northern Pickens County has been confirmed to have WNS, which spreads mainly through bat-to-bat contact and has not been found to infect humans or other animals. “We have been expecting WNS in South Carolina,” said Mary Bunch, wildlife biologist with the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (DNR) based in Clemson. “We have watched the roll call of states and counties and Canadian provinces grow each year since the first bat deaths were noted in New York in 2007.” Estimates of bat mortality from WNS in North America range from 5.7-6.7 million bats since the new pathogen was first discovered. Table Rock State Park staff informed Bunch about what appeared to be a dead bat and asked whether it should undergo WNS testing. Bunch was doing routine WNS monitoring in the area and collected the bat, a tri-colored bat. The bat was collected on Feb. 21, transported on ice, and submitted to the Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study in Athens, Ga. The Wildlife Disease Study confirmed the presence of Geomyces destructans fungus, which causes WNS. Table Rock’s bat colony is in a remote portion of the park not accessible to the public, and the discovery of the white-nose syndrome bat is not a threat to park visitors’ health and safety and will not have any negative effects upon their visits to Table Rock State Park. With the addition of South Carolina, WNS has now been confirmed in 21 states and five Canadian provinces. Currently there is no cure or effective treatment for WNS, and mortality in some species, such as the small tri-colored bat, has exceeded 98 percent. Bats have very low reproductive rates so recovery from losses takes a long time. Formerly common bats are becoming rare, and some rare bats may be lost. The fungus grows best in a cool moist environment, the same places bats go to hibernate. Bat species that hibernate in mines or caves are susceptible to WNS. In South Carolina, those species are big brown bat, little brown bat, Eastern small-footed bat, Northern long-eared bat, tricolored bat and Southeastern bat. In the Southeast, there are some other colonial, non-hibernating, bats in which WNS has not been detected, such as the free-tailed bat and the evening bat. While WNS is not harmful to humans, scientists believe it is possible for humans to transport fungal spores on clothing and gear. In 2009, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service advised cavers and researchers to curtail caving activities and implement decontamination procedures in an effort to reduce the spread of WNS. The fungus cannot be killed simply by washing clothing. Bats play a critical role in maintaining healthy ecosystems and have an enormous impact on pest control, benefitting the economies of both forestry and agriculture in the United States. For example, the one million little brown bats that have already died due to WNS would have eaten between 660 and 1,320 metric tons of insects in one year. A recent study published in Science estimates that insect-eating bats provide a significant pest-control service, saving the U.S. agricultural industry at least $3 billion a year. “The news that white-nose syndrome has been confirmed in South Carolina is devastating for these very important mammals,” Bunch said. “We will continue to work closely with our partners to understand the spread of this deadly disease and to help minimize its impacts to affected bat species.” For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.WhiteNoseSyndrome.org. # ^ Greg Lucas S.C. Department of Natural Resources 311 Natural Resources Drive Clemson, SC 29631-3253 (864) 380-5201 (mobile) -- Ann Froschauer Office of Public Affairs U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 4401 N. Fairfax Dr. Arlington, VA 22203 (703) 358-2636 (o) (202) 734-8452 (c) (703) 358-1780 (f)___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: WNS Confirmed in South Carolina
-- Forwarded message -- From: Greg Lucas luc...@dnr.sc.gov Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina SPECIAL NEWS RELEASE #13–5 March 11, 2013 DNR News (864) 380-5201 U.S. Fish Wildlife Service (202) 734-8452 Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina The S.C. Department of Natural Resources recently received confirmation that white-nose syndrome, a disease that has killed millions of bats in eastern North American, is now officially in South Carolina. Until now, South Carolina appeared to be insulated from white-nose syndrome (WNS). However, a dead bat discovered recently at Table Rock State Park in northern Pickens County has been confirmed to have WNS, which spreads mainly through bat-to-bat contact and has not been found to infect humans or other animals. “We have been expecting WNS in South Carolina,” said Mary Bunch, wildlife biologist with the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (DNR) based in Clemson. “We have watched the roll call of states and counties and Canadian provinces grow each year since the first bat deaths were noted in New York in 2007.” Estimates of bat mortality from WNS in North America range from 5.7-6.7 million bats since the new pathogen was first discovered. Table Rock State Park staff informed Bunch about what appeared to be a dead bat and asked whether it should undergo WNS testing. Bunch was doing routine WNS monitoring in the area and collected the bat, a tri-colored bat. The bat was collected on Feb. 21, transported on ice, and submitted to the Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study in Athens, Ga. The Wildlife Disease Study confirmed the presence of Geomyces destructans fungus, which causes WNS. Table Rock’s bat colony is in a remote portion of the park not accessible to the public, and the discovery of the white-nose syndrome bat is not a threat to park visitors’ health and safety and will not have any negative effects upon their visits to Table Rock State Park. With the addition of South Carolina, WNS has now been confirmed in 21 states and five Canadian provinces. Currently there is no cure or effective treatment for WNS, and mortality in some species, such as the small tri-colored bat, has exceeded 98 percent. Bats have very low reproductive rates so recovery from losses takes a long time. Formerly common bats are becoming rare, and some rare bats may be lost. The fungus grows best in a cool moist environment, the same places bats go to hibernate. Bat species that hibernate in mines or caves are susceptible to WNS. In South Carolina, those species are big brown bat, little brown bat, Eastern small-footed bat, Northern long-eared bat, tricolored bat and Southeastern bat. In the Southeast, there are some other colonial, non-hibernating, bats in which WNS has not been detected, such as the free-tailed bat and the evening bat. While WNS is not harmful to humans, scientists believe it is possible for humans to transport fungal spores on clothing and gear. In 2009, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service advised cavers and researchers to curtail caving activities and implement decontamination procedures in an effort to reduce the spread of WNS. The fungus cannot be killed simply by washing clothing. Bats play a critical role in maintaining healthy ecosystems and have an enormous impact on pest control, benefitting the economies of both forestry and agriculture in the United States. For example, the one million little brown bats that have already died due to WNS would have eaten between 660 and 1,320 metric tons of insects in one year. A recent study published in Science estimates that insect-eating bats provide a significant pest-control service, saving the U.S. agricultural industry at least $3 billion a year. “The news that white-nose syndrome has been confirmed in South Carolina is devastating for these very important mammals,” Bunch said. “We will continue to work closely with our partners to understand the spread of this deadly disease and to help minimize its impacts to affected bat species.” For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.WhiteNoseSyndrome.org. # ^ Greg Lucas S.C. Department of Natural Resources 311 Natural Resources Drive Clemson, SC 29631-3253 (864) 380-5201 (mobile) -- Ann Froschauer Office of Public Affairs U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 4401 N. Fairfax Dr. Arlington, VA 22203 (703) 358-2636 (o) (202) 734-8452 (c) (703) 358-1780 (f)___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: WNS Confirmed in South Carolina
-- Forwarded message -- From: Greg Lucas luc...@dnr.sc.gov Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina SPECIAL NEWS RELEASE #13–5 March 11, 2013 DNR News (864) 380-5201 U.S. Fish Wildlife Service (202) 734-8452 Bat disease white-nose syndrome confirmed in South Carolina The S.C. Department of Natural Resources recently received confirmation that white-nose syndrome, a disease that has killed millions of bats in eastern North American, is now officially in South Carolina. Until now, South Carolina appeared to be insulated from white-nose syndrome (WNS). However, a dead bat discovered recently at Table Rock State Park in northern Pickens County has been confirmed to have WNS, which spreads mainly through bat-to-bat contact and has not been found to infect humans or other animals. “We have been expecting WNS in South Carolina,” said Mary Bunch, wildlife biologist with the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (DNR) based in Clemson. “We have watched the roll call of states and counties and Canadian provinces grow each year since the first bat deaths were noted in New York in 2007.” Estimates of bat mortality from WNS in North America range from 5.7-6.7 million bats since the new pathogen was first discovered. Table Rock State Park staff informed Bunch about what appeared to be a dead bat and asked whether it should undergo WNS testing. Bunch was doing routine WNS monitoring in the area and collected the bat, a tri-colored bat. The bat was collected on Feb. 21, transported on ice, and submitted to the Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study in Athens, Ga. The Wildlife Disease Study confirmed the presence of Geomyces destructans fungus, which causes WNS. Table Rock’s bat colony is in a remote portion of the park not accessible to the public, and the discovery of the white-nose syndrome bat is not a threat to park visitors’ health and safety and will not have any negative effects upon their visits to Table Rock State Park. With the addition of South Carolina, WNS has now been confirmed in 21 states and five Canadian provinces. Currently there is no cure or effective treatment for WNS, and mortality in some species, such as the small tri-colored bat, has exceeded 98 percent. Bats have very low reproductive rates so recovery from losses takes a long time. Formerly common bats are becoming rare, and some rare bats may be lost. The fungus grows best in a cool moist environment, the same places bats go to hibernate. Bat species that hibernate in mines or caves are susceptible to WNS. In South Carolina, those species are big brown bat, little brown bat, Eastern small-footed bat, Northern long-eared bat, tricolored bat and Southeastern bat. In the Southeast, there are some other colonial, non-hibernating, bats in which WNS has not been detected, such as the free-tailed bat and the evening bat. While WNS is not harmful to humans, scientists believe it is possible for humans to transport fungal spores on clothing and gear. In 2009, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service advised cavers and researchers to curtail caving activities and implement decontamination procedures in an effort to reduce the spread of WNS. The fungus cannot be killed simply by washing clothing. Bats play a critical role in maintaining healthy ecosystems and have an enormous impact on pest control, benefitting the economies of both forestry and agriculture in the United States. For example, the one million little brown bats that have already died due to WNS would have eaten between 660 and 1,320 metric tons of insects in one year. A recent study published in Science estimates that insect-eating bats provide a significant pest-control service, saving the U.S. agricultural industry at least $3 billion a year. “The news that white-nose syndrome has been confirmed in South Carolina is devastating for these very important mammals,” Bunch said. “We will continue to work closely with our partners to understand the spread of this deadly disease and to help minimize its impacts to affected bat species.” For more information about white-nose syndrome, visit www.WhiteNoseSyndrome.org. # ^ Greg Lucas S.C. Department of Natural Resources 311 Natural Resources Drive Clemson, SC 29631-3253 (864) 380-5201 (mobile) -- Ann Froschauer Office of Public Affairs U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 4401 N. Fairfax Dr. Arlington, VA 22203 (703) 358-2636 (o) (202) 734-8452 (c) (703) 358-1780 (f)___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To clarify: please contact Jason Walz, I'm just forwarding the info. jaw...@fs.fed.us Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:39:13 -0800 From: bigredfo...@yahoo.com To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To clarify: please contact Jason Walz, I'm just forwarding the info. jaw...@fs.fed.us List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:39:13 -0800 From: bigredfo...@yahoo.com To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad
To clarify: please contact Jason Walz, I'm just forwarding the info. jaw...@fs.fed.us List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:39:13 -0800 From: bigredfo...@yahoo.com To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fw: Cave Rescue Training in Carlsbad To all, A two-day 16-hour cave rescue class is coming up fast! If you are interested, please send me a note with what cave experience you have and what cave rescue training you have completed. The details of the class are listed below. It is an overview style class. It would be a good class for everyone interested in eventually being part of a cave rescue team or anyone who just wants basic rescue experience. Since this class is coming up fast, get back to me asap. Class: Orientation to Cave Rescue List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sat-Sun Feb 23, 24 Prerequisite: Have completed at least 1 wild caving trip Format: Class is to educate people who have no rescue experience, have other rescue experience, or for a refresher. The first day is classroom and hands-on exercises. The second day is a mock rescue in a cave. Place: Carlsbad, NM (23rd held at National Cave and Karst Research Institute building, 24th TBA) Cost: $25 (may be covered by LNF Cave Program) Gear: Basic cave gear Housing: Guadalupe District Barracks may be available (1 hour’s drive from Carlsbad); travel is up to you Sincerely, Jason Walz Cave Specialist Lincoln National Forest (575) 885-7426 -office (575) 361-7759 -cell This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
I had Stan introduce me to the biologist a few years ago and she stated that there are no hibernating bats in Carlsbad Caverns. There is a book from the 50's that stated there were hibernating bats, but she told me it was wrong. If you have any references to hibernating bats in NM, please send them to me, I'm collecting them. thanks Jen. From: nmca...@comcast.net To: wnsliai...@caves.org; ing...@i-pi.com Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:34:37 -0700 CC: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media It is my understanding that there used to be, perhaps still is, a small hibernating colony in Carlsbad Cavern. Species I'm not sure of, but numbers ranged from 150 to under 300. Enough of them (30) to qualify for BLM's closure list. Since CaCa is managed by NPS, and since they gain gobs of federal revenue from keeping CACa open, it is more a political issue than a biological disaster prevention issue. Jim -Original Message- From: wnsliai...@caves.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:26 AM To: Kenneth Ingham Cc: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media The more I stare at that paragraph, the more I think it's a general statement about show caves. I've heard owners of some of them complain about the bad publicity over cave closures and the public thinking they are closed, calling the cave and asking if they're open, or worse, calling the cave and asking them why they're still open. Jen is correct about the Brazilian freetails and Carlsbad, being migrators, but I know there are other bat species that use the cave - down in the Big Room area. Either way, I doubt the microclimate conditions are conducive to WNS. And, like Mammoth Cave National Park, I sincerely doubt the Park Service would close the cave anyway. That would basically kill the Park, and certainly the hue and cry from the businesses in White City would be loud. Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA224 Their last paragraph reads: Experts said white-nose syndrome has hurt cave in the East that use bats as tourist attractions. They said it could have a similar effect on Carlsbad Caverns if the disease reaches New Mexico. It sounds like they are referring to the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Kenneth On 02/07/2013 09:41 AM, wnsliai...@caves.org wrote: Really. That last statement puzzled me. What cave are they talking about? Peter Quoting Kenneth Ingham ing...@i-pi.com: I cannot figure how they got their last paragraph (the one Jen complained about) from anything anybody said at the meeting last night. I tried to leave a comment on their web page, but they only accept comments from facebook users (I appear to be one of the only people in the world who does not use it). Maybe others can leave a useful comment. Kenneth On 02/06/2013 09:47 AM, Lee H. Skinner wrote: KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iFYEARELAAYFAlET3o8ACgkQqjXvNhJWXxidBwDeOsfR3jQnHOCbxFcpGhvPIoRk dkzzN6Go773QBQDfZGSCwCz90gTat0nZCW7A/5uwArqhFHW2FjwSkQ== =/LUF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media
ugh. I noticed they didn't have a name for the experts that said it would likely have an effect on Carlsbad Caverns tourism. WNS is not going to affect the Free-tailed bats that are a tourist attraction at Carlsbad Caverns, they do not hibernate. Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:47:14 -0700 From: skin...@thuntek.net To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] WNS meeting in the media KOAT (Channel 7) had a brief story about the BLM WNS meeting last night: http://tinyurl.com/bzt9kso Lee Skinner ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP
The BLM made a management decision to close their caves that were determined to be colonial bat roosts. They did not close all the caves, they closed less than 1% of caves in NM, and they have worked with cavers to allow exceptions for research. No-one is happy, but we are doing the best we can in a difficult situation. The Mammoth Cave WNS Response plan should answer your questions as to why that cave is still open. http://www.nps.gov/maca/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfilePageID=330269. They have closed their hibernacula to visitation. They have a very thorough plan that describes how and why they allow visitation to certain areas. Though it hasn't been proven that humans have spread WNS, no-one can prove that cavers can't spread it (unlikely does not equal impossible, and biologists have succeeded in the lab). Closing major hibernacula 900 miles away makes more sense than closing caves 10 miles away from the source. Once WNS is within normal bat movement, the theoretical human vector is not an issue (except for transmission to outside areas). As cavers, we typically want to do whatever we can to protect the bats that share the caves with us. We stay out of major hibernacula in the winter and maternity roosts in summer. Now we need to make sure we don't spread spores, since we don't know yet if a one in a million transmission might happen. You may not agree with how an agency is managing the resource they have been trusted to manage, but I will hope that discussing it ad nauseam will lead to re-evaluations and improvements. Jen From: Stephen Fleming casto...@gmail.com To: cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: Steve Peerman gypca...@comcast.net; Jen. bigredfo...@yahoo.com; swr s...@caver.net; pajarito pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; Penny Boston pbos...@nmt.edu Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Patricia Seiser cavewe...@windstream.net wrote: Non-closure of Mammoth Cave is not just a monetary issue for the NSS. The local communities are very dependent on the tourism generated by the presence of a National Park. Not only do they reap the benefits of the tourists visiting the NP, but also benefit from the “publicity/advertisement” generated by the NPS. I did research in the area a few years ago, and it was a common theme in the local communities that the Government was determined to close the Park – based on the evidence of reduction in tours and personnel. There is a huge concern that if the park closes so goes the local communities – including the other show caves. Patricia Seiser That essentially is my point. Where the economic and political clout exists, it doesn't matter how WNS is transmitted, faulty/pretend science or not. Where there is insufficient clout, like in NM*, we get BS explanations, coupled with pseudo-science deemings of convenient facts not in evidence that the agencies latch onto to validate whatever it is they want to do. *NPS excepted since they have not restricted park use, so the clout is actually more political than economic at least here (or maybe they just care a lot less than BLM and the USFS about what happens). All I want is real scientific proof, one way or the other and I want the scientific community to stop tacitly and overtly supporting the closures when they cannot provide that proof (or that proof isn't what some apparently wish it to be). The WNS closures are in no way based on science and that ought to bother the scientific community for being used in such a manner to advance an agenda in a way that is inimical to scientific processes and long-established standards of operation and investigation. Apparently, it does not because no credentialed scientists appear willing to publicly state the obvious or do anything to change the status quo of this nonsense. In the unlikely event a human vector can scientifically be shown to exist, then I have no problem accepting that. I have a big problem with the lock-out and circus based on sham studies and assumptions. Given how long we've been dealing with WNS without a shred of human-vector proof, it doesn't look like any such proof will be forthcoming. In my former work life, all kind of things could be alleged, and were investigated. But, in those situations where there was no evidence, there was no case. WNS is no different from a perspective of standards and proof, but instead is handled using fiction, innuendo, rumor, fear, and blatant disregard of accuracy as the basis for actionable but thoroughly questionable proof in the face of facts that clearly say otherwise and which do not support what is being done to cavers and caving. My basic questions remain unanswered: Why are federal caves in known WNS areas still open while federal caves in NM more than 900 miles from any threat closed? How
Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP
The BLM made a management decision to close their caves that were determined to be colonial bat roosts. They did not close all the caves, they closed less than 1% of caves in NM, and they have worked with cavers to allow exceptions for research. No-one is happy, but we are doing the best we can in a difficult situation. The Mammoth Cave WNS Response plan should answer your questions as to why that cave is still open. http://www.nps.gov/maca/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfilePageID=330269. They have closed their hibernacula to visitation. They have a very thorough plan that describes how and why they allow visitation to certain areas. Though it hasn't been proven that humans have spread WNS, no-one can prove that cavers can't spread it (unlikely does not equal impossible, and biologists have succeeded in the lab). Closing major hibernacula 900 miles away makes more sense than closing caves 10 miles away from the source. Once WNS is within normal bat movement, the theoretical human vector is not an issue (except for transmission to outside areas). As cavers, we typically want to do whatever we can to protect the bats that share the caves with us. We stay out of major hibernacula in the winter and maternity roosts in summer. Now we need to make sure we don't spread spores, since we don't know yet if a one in a million transmission might happen. You may not agree with how an agency is managing the resource they have been trusted to manage, but I will hope that discussing it ad nauseam will lead to re-evaluations and improvements. Jen From: Stephen Fleming casto...@gmail.com To: cavewe...@windstream.net Cc: Steve Peerman gypca...@comcast.net; Jen. bigredfo...@yahoo.com; swr s...@caver.net; pajarito pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; Penny Boston pbos...@nmt.edu Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Patricia Seiser cavewe...@windstream.net wrote: Non-closure of Mammoth Cave is not just a monetary issue for the NSS. The local communities are very dependent on the tourism generated by the presence of a National Park. Not only do they reap the benefits of the tourists visiting the NP, but also benefit from the “publicity/advertisement” generated by the NPS. I did research in the area a few years ago, and it was a common theme in the local communities that the Government was determined to close the Park – based on the evidence of reduction in tours and personnel. There is a huge concern that if the park closes so goes the local communities – including the other show caves. Patricia Seiser That essentially is my point. Where the economic and political clout exists, it doesn't matter how WNS is transmitted, faulty/pretend science or not. Where there is insufficient clout, like in NM*, we get BS explanations, coupled with pseudo-science deemings of convenient facts not in evidence that the agencies latch onto to validate whatever it is they want to do. *NPS excepted since they have not restricted park use, so the clout is actually more political than economic at least here (or maybe they just care a lot less than BLM and the USFS about what happens). All I want is real scientific proof, one way or the other and I want the scientific community to stop tacitly and overtly supporting the closures when they cannot provide that proof (or that proof isn't what some apparently wish it to be). The WNS closures are in no way based on science and that ought to bother the scientific community for being used in such a manner to advance an agenda in a way that is inimical to scientific processes and long-established standards of operation and investigation. Apparently, it does not because no credentialed scientists appear willing to publicly state the obvious or do anything to change the status quo of this nonsense. In the unlikely event a human vector can scientifically be shown to exist, then I have no problem accepting that. I have a big problem with the lock-out and circus based on sham studies and assumptions. Given how long we've been dealing with WNS without a shred of human-vector proof, it doesn't look like any such proof will be forthcoming. In my former work life, all kind of things could be alleged, and were investigated. But, in those situations where there was no evidence, there was no case. WNS is no different from a perspective of standards and proof, but instead is handled using fiction, innuendo, rumor, fear, and blatant disregard of accuracy as the basis for actionable but thoroughly questionable proof in the face of facts that clearly say otherwise and which do not support what is being done to cavers and caving. My basic questions remain unanswered: Why are federal caves in known WNS areas still open while federal caves in NM more than 900 miles from any threat closed? How
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP
WNS in Mammoth Cave NP Press release attached. Peter Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 NR - MACA WNS Announcement - FINAL (1).pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP
WNS in Mammoth Cave NP Press release attached. Peter Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 NR - MACA WNS Announcement - FINAL (1).pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS in Mammoth Cave NP
WNS in Mammoth Cave NP Press release attached. Peter Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 NR - MACA WNS Announcement - FINAL (1).pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: G.d. persistence in caves
This is a new study on the persistence of G.d. in infected caves. Deb Debbie Buecher, M.S. Wildlife Biologist/Project Manager Buecher Biological Consulting 7050 E. Katchina Court Tucson, AZ 85715 phone: (520) 722-1287 cell: (520) 822-4726 Lorch12GdestructansPersistance.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: G.d. persistence in caves
This is a new study on the persistence of G.d. in infected caves. Deb Debbie Buecher, M.S. Wildlife Biologist/Project Manager Buecher Biological Consulting 7050 E. Katchina Court Tucson, AZ 85715 phone: (520) 722-1287 cell: (520) 822-4726 Lorch12GdestructansPersistance.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] anatomy of a bat
One of my friends on facebook shared this video of a very neat bat reconstruction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=VwT6RLsYe1c___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] anatomy of a bat
One of my friends on facebook shared this video of a very neat bat reconstruction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=VwT6RLsYe1c___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Beneath the Forest - Spring 2012 EXTERNAL VERSION
Articles are due for our Spring 2013 issue, which will be our 10th issue, on April 1 2013 – please encourage cavers, scientists, and agency personnel conducting cave and karst related work within the Forest Service to submit articles, photos, and cave maps. For questions related to content, back issues, or submissions, please feel free to contact me at the information provided below – or stop by the Forest Service booth at the Geological Society of America conference November 5– 8 2012. Thanks for your interest in Forest Service cave and karst resources! cheers, Johanna Editor, Beneath the Forest Johanna L. Kovarik Geology Cave and Karst Program Coordinator Minerals and Geology Management Centralized National Operations U.S. Forest Service, 740 Simms St., Golden, CO 80401 Desk: 303-275-5378 Cell: 303-845-2119 Fax: 303-275-5122 Email: jkova...@fs.fed.us Website: http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/ BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf Description: BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Beneath the Forest - Spring 2012 EXTERNAL VERSION
Articles are due for our Spring 2013 issue, which will be our 10th issue, on April 1 2013 – please encourage cavers, scientists, and agency personnel conducting cave and karst related work within the Forest Service to submit articles, photos, and cave maps. For questions related to content, back issues, or submissions, please feel free to contact me at the information provided below – or stop by the Forest Service booth at the Geological Society of America conference November 5– 8 2012. Thanks for your interest in Forest Service cave and karst resources! cheers, Johanna Editor, Beneath the Forest Johanna L. Kovarik Geology Cave and Karst Program Coordinator Minerals and Geology Management Centralized National Operations U.S. Forest Service, 740 Simms St., Golden, CO 80401 Desk: 303-275-5378 Cell: 303-845-2119 Fax: 303-275-5122 Email: jkova...@fs.fed.us Website: http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/ BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf Description: BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: Beneath the Forest - Spring 2012 EXTERNAL VERSION
Articles are due for our Spring 2013 issue, which will be our 10th issue, on April 1 2013 – please encourage cavers, scientists, and agency personnel conducting cave and karst related work within the Forest Service to submit articles, photos, and cave maps. For questions related to content, back issues, or submissions, please feel free to contact me at the information provided below – or stop by the Forest Service booth at the Geological Society of America conference November 5– 8 2012. Thanks for your interest in Forest Service cave and karst resources! cheers, Johanna Editor, Beneath the Forest Johanna L. Kovarik Geology Cave and Karst Program Coordinator Minerals and Geology Management Centralized National Operations U.S. Forest Service, 740 Simms St., Golden, CO 80401 Desk: 303-275-5378 Cell: 303-845-2119 Fax: 303-275-5122 Email: jkova...@fs.fed.us Website: http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/ BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf Description: BTF_Spring_12_OF.pdf ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: ==BREAKING NEWS==
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Caves_and_WNS_social_economic_final.pdf Newly-published study about the social and economic values associated with public wildland caves and their closure. This report focuses on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia, but it relevant in all caving regions. ***PUBLIC DOCUMENT: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE*** __. __,_._,___ ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: ==BREAKING NEWS==
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Caves_and_WNS_social_economic_final.pdf Newly-published study about the social and economic values associated with public wildland caves and their closure. This report focuses on the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia, but it relevant in all caving regions. ***PUBLIC DOCUMENT: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE*** __. __,_._,___ ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; lst...@hubwest.com; memb...@sandiagrotto.org Subject: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. All, As many of you are aware, BLM has had a closure on 23 caves on public lands for the last 20 months. This closure is going to be looked at AGAIN in the next few months, and who knows what the decision will be. If nothing is done on the caving communities part, it will look the same - Caves will be closed for the next two years, again. I have brought the following documents to the attention of Chuck Schmidt, RFO Field Manager and Doug Burger, Pecos District Manager. They like what this could represent. I believe that a closure modified to look like the one that USFS region 2 is using is a step in the right direction to keeping caving relatively open, OK so you still have to decon. What the USFS's modified closure does different is it creates an exception to the closure for NSS CRF members doing any work related to a MOU with the USFS. BLM has a MOU with NSS. This might be the ticket for us cavers to have an easier time getting into closed caves. I am personally getting tired of doing battle with the White Nose Committee for every trip that goes to a closed cave. Something has to change. This USFS agreement gives the decision of which permits get approved back to the local USFS office. Pay close attention to exception 6 PDF of new closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5383210.pdf Web site for closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5386976 Working for BLM, I can't tell you what to do as the caving community, and I am already pulling many strings on this end. So, if the writing isn't already on the wall..then you should let Carl Pagano nominate you for something, (I hear he's good at that). Lastly, work with your local BLM office. The BLM Pecos District is the hub of NM caving. They want cavers caving! Please spread this information to anyone not on this email list. Knutt Peterson ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Thanks Ken. HGRP has also been working with the LNF in any way we can, with over a half million dollars of volunteer value since 1999, with the goal to open or keep caves open to recreational use in the LNF. I'd also like to remind everyone that R2 of USFS and Colorado BLM actually used NM as an example to re-open/keep caves open. We should be appreciative of all the hard work our NM agencies have done to keep caves open in the face of WNS fears. If anyone has any questions on WNS, let me know. I am the SWR WNS liaison and on the NSS and WBWG WNS committees. Very few caves in the LNF are closed for WNS fears, unfortunately those few caves are as popular with people as they are with bats. My understanding is that the majority of caves in the LNF are closed to recreational caving due to lack of management resources. This issue has hit the NPS even harder than the forest. We need to focus on changing the BLM closure order before it is renewed as is. Several of the caves are not hibernacula (or were just historically and are not current significant bat roosts), and allowing local offices to approve permits based on current MOU's would be beneficial. Jennifer - From: ken_harring...@hotmail.com To: bigredfo...@hotmail.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: RE: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:30:28 -0600 Jen, Knutt, I have been working at the Lincoln National Forest level to get some of the caves currently closed reopened. I will also now start writing to the FS officials in Alburqueque level to advise them of our concerns over the extended time that the caves have been closed and the fact that there is no indcation that WNS has moved any closer to NM in the last two years. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: bigredfo...@hotmail.com To: knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:52:06 -0600 CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; lst...@hubwest.com; memb...@sandiagrotto.org Subject: [SWR] Upcoming BLM
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; lst...@hubwest.com; memb...@sandiagrotto.org Subject: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. All, As many of you are aware, BLM has had a closure on 23 caves on public lands for the last 20 months. This closure is going to be looked at AGAIN in the next few months, and who knows what the decision will be. If nothing is done on the caving communities part, it will look the same - Caves will be closed for the next two years, again. I have brought the following documents to the attention of Chuck Schmidt, RFO Field Manager and Doug Burger, Pecos District Manager. They like what this could represent. I believe that a closure modified to look like the one that USFS region 2 is using is a step in the right direction to keeping caving relatively open, OK so you still have to decon. What the USFS's modified closure does different is it creates an exception to the closure for NSS CRF members doing any work related to a MOU with the USFS. BLM has a MOU with NSS. This might be the ticket for us cavers to have an easier time getting into closed caves. I am personally getting tired of doing battle with the White Nose Committee for every trip that goes to a closed cave. Something has to change. This USFS agreement gives the decision of which permits get approved back to the local USFS office. Pay close attention to exception 6 PDF of new closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5383210.pdf Web site for closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5386976 Working for BLM, I can't tell you what to do as the caving community, and I am already pulling many strings on this end. So, if the writing isn't already on the wall..then you should let Carl Pagano nominate you for something, (I hear he's good at that). Lastly, work with your local BLM office. The BLM Pecos District is the hub of NM caving. They want cavers caving! Please spread this information to anyone not on this email list. Knutt Peterson ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Thanks Ken. HGRP has also been working with the LNF in any way we can, with over a half million dollars of volunteer value since 1999, with the goal to open or keep caves open to recreational use in the LNF. I'd also like to remind everyone that R2 of USFS and Colorado BLM actually used NM as an example to re-open/keep caves open. We should be appreciative of all the hard work our NM agencies have done to keep caves open in the face of WNS fears. If anyone has any questions on WNS, let me know. I am the SWR WNS liaison and on the NSS and WBWG WNS committees. Very few caves in the LNF are closed for WNS fears, unfortunately those few caves are as popular with people as they are with bats. My understanding is that the majority of caves in the LNF are closed to recreational caving due to lack of management resources. This issue has hit the NPS even harder than the forest. We need to focus on changing the BLM closure order before it is renewed as is. Several of the caves are not hibernacula (or were just historically and are not current significant bat roosts), and allowing local offices to approve permits based on current MOU's would be beneficial. Jennifer - From: ken_harring...@hotmail.com To: bigredfo...@hotmail.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: RE: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:30:28 -0600 Jen, Knutt, I have been working at the Lincoln National Forest level to get some of the caves currently closed reopened. I will also now start writing to the FS officials in Alburqueque level to advise them of our concerns over the extended time that the caves have been closed and the fact that there is no indcation that WNS has moved any closer to NM in the last two years. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: bigredfo...@hotmail.com To: knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:52:06 -0600 CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; lst...@hubwest.com; memb...@sandiagrotto.org Subject: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. All, As many of you are aware, BLM has had a closure on 23 caves on public lands for the last 20 months. This closure is going to be looked at AGAIN in the next few months, and who knows what the decision will be. If nothing is done on the caving communities part, it will look the same - Caves will be closed for the next two years, again. I have brought the following documents to the attention of Chuck Schmidt, RFO Field Manager and Doug Burger, Pecos District Manager. They like what this could represent. I believe that a closure modified to look like the one that USFS region 2 is using is a step in the right direction to keeping caving relatively open, OK so you still have to decon. What the USFS's modified closure does different is it creates an exception to the closure for NSS CRF members doing any work related to a MOU with the USFS. BLM has a MOU with NSS. This might be the ticket for us cavers to have an easier time getting into closed caves. I am personally getting tired of doing battle with the White Nose Committee for every trip that goes to a closed cave. Something has to change. This USFS agreement gives the decision of which permits get approved back to the local USFS office. Pay close attention to exception 6 PDF of new closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5383210.pdf Web site for closure order http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r2/home/?cid=stelprdb5386976 Working for BLM, I can't tell you what to do as the caving community, and I am already pulling many strings on this end. So, if the writing isn't already on the wall..then you should let Carl Pagano nominate you for something, (I hear he's good at that). Lastly, work with your local BLM office. The BLM Pecos District is the hub of NM caving. They want cavers caving! Please spread this information to anyone not on this email list. Knutt Peterson ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document.
Thanks Ken. HGRP has also been working with the LNF in any way we can, with over a half million dollars of volunteer value since 1999, with the goal to open or keep caves open to recreational use in the LNF. I'd also like to remind everyone that R2 of USFS and Colorado BLM actually used NM as an example to re-open/keep caves open. We should be appreciative of all the hard work our NM agencies have done to keep caves open in the face of WNS fears. If anyone has any questions on WNS, let me know. I am the SWR WNS liaison and on the NSS and WBWG WNS committees. Very few caves in the LNF are closed for WNS fears, unfortunately those few caves are as popular with people as they are with bats. My understanding is that the majority of caves in the LNF are closed to recreational caving due to lack of management resources. This issue has hit the NPS even harder than the forest. We need to focus on changing the BLM closure order before it is renewed as is. Several of the caves are not hibernacula (or were just historically and are not current significant bat roosts), and allowing local offices to approve permits based on current MOU's would be beneficial. Jennifer - From: ken_harring...@hotmail.com To: bigredfo...@hotmail.com; knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: RE: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:30:28 -0600 Jen, Knutt, I have been working at the Lincoln National Forest level to get some of the caves currently closed reopened. I will also now start writing to the FS officials in Alburqueque level to advise them of our concerns over the extended time that the caves have been closed and the fact that there is no indcation that WNS has moved any closer to NM in the last two years. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: bigredfo...@hotmail.com To: knutt1...@yahoo.com; blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:52:06 -0600 CC: guinnes...@aol.com; s...@caver.net; pajar...@lists.snurkle.net; sgoodca...@comcast.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; lst...@hubwest.com; rckee...@cox.net; east29f...@gmail.com; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com; jenniferboye...@msn.com; jboyett...@comcast.net; skin...@thuntek.net; wnsliai...@caves.org Subject: Re: [SWR] Upcoming BLM cave closure document. Knutt, Thanks again for the heads up, Pajarito Grotto had our meeting last night and we will be sending in a statement to the BLM. I have also been working on an email to the NM Interagency WNS committee to follow up on the Nov 2010 meeting on behalf of SWR. Jennifer List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:04:34 -0700 From: knutt1...@yahoo.com To: blandev...@comcast.net; buec...@comcast.net; bels...@valornet.com; dbuec...@comcast.net; dgda...@nyx.net; fscsp.direc...@gmail.com; garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; bigredfo...@hotmail.com; bigredfo...@yahoo.com; j...@vla.com; geospe...@gmail.com; john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com; j...@lanl.gov; ll...@nckri.org; mike_bi...@nm.blm.gov; mbbi...@yahoo.com; caverp...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; wcwal...@zianet.com; vppoly...@msn.com; casto...@gmail.com; pagan...@comcast.net CC: garrettljorgen...@gmail.com; guinnes...@aol.com; sgoodca...@comcast.net; ringtailr...@yahoo.com; s...@caver.net; rksouthw...@yahoo.com; skin...@thuntek.net; hydrogeosc...@gmail.com; east29f...@gmail.com; rckee...@cox.net; jenniferboye...@msn.com; ringtailros...@yahoo.com
[SWR] Fw: El Malpais WNS presentation
In case anyone needs something to do this weekend. http://www.cibolabeacon.com/news/researchers-present-findings-on-el-malpais-bat-disease/article_3451be88-e80d-11e1-98c4-0019bb2963f4.html___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: El Malpais WNS presentation
In case anyone needs something to do this weekend. http://www.cibolabeacon.com/news/researchers-present-findings-on-el-malpais-bat-disease/article_3451be88-e80d-11e1-98c4-0019bb2963f4.html___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Fw: El Malpais WNS presentation
In case anyone needs something to do this weekend. http://www.cibolabeacon.com/news/researchers-present-findings-on-el-malpais-bat-disease/article_3451be88-e80d-11e1-98c4-0019bb2963f4.html___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Trip report for Snowy River
I know Steve will have an executive summary out soon, but for those of you who can't wait, Derek posted a great trip report with photos from the first weekends exploration trip at CaveChat.http://forums.caves.org//viewtopic.php?f=8p=122501sid=f7f8d4b23d791869501b1a5e715b4b63#p122501 We really have some amazing world class exploration and science going on here in New Mexico! ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Trip report for Snowy River
I know Steve will have an executive summary out soon, but for those of you who can't wait, Derek posted a great trip report with photos from the first weekends exploration trip at CaveChat.http://forums.caves.org//viewtopic.php?f=8p=122501sid=f7f8d4b23d791869501b1a5e715b4b63#p122501 We really have some amazing world class exploration and science going on here in New Mexico! ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] Trip report for Snowy River
I know Steve will have an executive summary out soon, but for those of you who can't wait, Derek posted a great trip report with photos from the first weekends exploration trip at CaveChat.http://forums.caves.org//viewtopic.php?f=8p=122501sid=f7f8d4b23d791869501b1a5e715b4b63#p122501 We really have some amazing world class exploration and science going on here in New Mexico! ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[SWR] June 25 revised Decon procedures
I don't think I sent this out yet, but USFWS issued a revised decontamination guidance last week, with language clarifying recommended decontamination procedures based on manufacturers' suggested product usage. http://whitenosesyndrome.org/resource/revised-decontamination-guidance-june-25-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@just119.justhost.com http://just119.justhost.com/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] June 25 revised Decon procedures
I don't think I sent this out yet, but USFWS issued a revised decontamination guidance last week, with language clarifying recommended decontamination procedures based on manufacturers' suggested product usage. http://whitenosesyndrome.org/resource/revised-decontamination-guidance-june-25-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@just119.justhost.com http://just119.justhost.com/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] June 25 revised Decon procedures
I don't think I sent this out yet, but USFWS issued a revised decontamination guidance last week, with language clarifying recommended decontamination procedures based on manufacturers' suggested product usage. http://whitenosesyndrome.org/resource/revised-decontamination-guidance-june-25-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@just119.justhost.com http://just119.justhost.com/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS Confirmed in Grey Bats in Tennessee
New Species infected by WNS (no mortality yet). Please post: WNS Confirmed in Grey Bats in Tennessee Press Release PDF is attached. Thanks, Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 Gray_bats_2012_NR_Final.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News: WNS Confirmed in Grey Bats in Tennessee
New Species infected by WNS (no mortality yet). Please post: WNS Confirmed in Grey Bats in Tennessee Press Release PDF is attached. Thanks, Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 Gray_bats_2012_NR_Final.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures
I will be at the WNS conference the first week of June helping Peter Youngbaer represent the NSS. Let me know if you have any ideas on how we can work towards a better future for bats and caving. thanks Jen. Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:02:21 -0400 To: texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures Apparently the northern region of the U. S. Forest service is considering a plan to close all caves on Forest Service lands in the northern Rockies of Montana and Idaho to protect against WNS, even before there is any evidence that it is a threat there. The plan could take effect this summer. Our nemesis the Center for Biological Diversity has a hand in this. Ex-Texas caver Mike McEachern is quoted in the article. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-16/business/sns-rt-us-usa-bats-diseasebre84g05f-20120516_1_bat-disease-white-nose-syndrome-caves-and-mines Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures
I will be at the WNS conference the first week of June helping Peter Youngbaer represent the NSS. Let me know if you have any ideas on how we can work towards a better future for bats and caving. thanks Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:02:21 -0400 To: texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures Apparently the northern region of the U. S. Forest service is considering a plan to close all caves on Forest Service lands in the northern Rockies of Montana and Idaho to protect against WNS, even before there is any evidence that it is a threat there. The plan could take effect this summer. Our nemesis the Center for Biological Diversity has a hand in this. Ex-Texas caver Mike McEachern is quoted in the article. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-16/business/sns-rt-us-usa-bats-diseasebre84g05f-20120516_1_bat-disease-white-nose-syndrome-caves-and-mines Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures
I will be at the WNS conference the first week of June helping Peter Youngbaer represent the NSS. Let me know if you have any ideas on how we can work towards a better future for bats and caving. thanks Jen. List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:02:21 -0400 To: texascavers@texascavers.com; s...@caver.net From: mmin...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Northern Region Cave Closures Apparently the northern region of the U. S. Forest service is considering a plan to close all caves on Forest Service lands in the northern Rockies of Montana and Idaho to protect against WNS, even before there is any evidence that it is a threat there. The plan could take effect this summer. Our nemesis the Center for Biological Diversity has a hand in this. Ex-Texas caver Mike McEachern is quoted in the article. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-16/business/sns-rt-us-usa-bats-diseasebre84g05f-20120516_1_bat-disease-white-nose-syndrome-caves-and-mines Mark Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
I really wish that petition was worded more like his letter below. Cleaning your gear with hot water is NOT decontamination. Please wash your gear first AND then decontaminate by immersing in 122f water for 15 minutes. Jen From: speleob...@comcast.net Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:31:51 -0600 To: wilsonsofcolor...@yahoo.com; speleob...@comcast.net; mi...@fastwave.biz; grnpacav...@gmail.com; mike_dimat...@comcast.net; motoca...@gmail.com; regan...@nmsu.edu; tu...@sbcglobal.net; david.winn...@yahoo.com; karstpat...@gmail.com; wcwal...@zianet.com; robw...@wwdb.org; rambe...@zianet.com; jbac...@comcast.net; oldgru...@msn.com; elpasoca...@yahoo.com; lpeer...@lcsun-news.com; scottanderso...@yahoo.com; sarcave...@gmail.com; mike_bi...@blm.gov; nmba...@zianet.com; lee.t.wil...@gmail.com; katert...@comcast.net; rfos...@nmsu.edu; margaretwilso...@gmail.com; sldstev...@msn.com; siz...@hotmail.com; gra...@comcast.net; cor...@alum.dartmouth.org; gggr...@hotmail.com; dmartin...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; kver...@aol.com; hadl...@htg.net; mbbi...@yahoo.com; janice.tuc...@live.com; jkl...@yahoo.com; lawrence.r.fore...@saic.com; abthomi...@comcast.net; johnmo...@excite.com; forema...@saic.com; casto...@gmail.com; billgo...@gmail.com; mikelis...@msn.com; s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Begin forwarded message:From: seileo...@gmail.com Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT To: saltydigg...@yahoogroups.com, saltyrockeat...@yahoogroups.com, northeastcaveconserva...@yahoogroups.com, cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com Bcc: speleob...@comcast.net Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Hey, all, As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open. This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science, and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open. https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F Sincerely, John Dunham Kathy peermanspeleob...@comcast.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public
Though I admit that especially after working intimately with radioactive contamination (which is also invisible to the eye), I sometimes have a problem with suspending my disbelief with the WNS decontamination protocol, I do think that cavers are aware of how to clean ourselves. We are aware bats are THE vector for spreading WNS. But even if it is a one in a million chance that cavers (with no bat to human contact) could spread it, as cave conservationists, we need to not be that one in a million chance. Let's keep working towards a solution and not just fighting against people. Jen From: pagan...@comcast.net Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:02:00 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Carl Pagano wrote:It is what I have been saying. There is NO scientific evidence that this is human spread. That involves work, including a control, and test group. After a conclusion has been reached, the experiment must be able to be repeated, several times, with the same results to support the original hypothesis. That humans as a vector of WNS? Prove it. It's much much easier to close caves, decontaminate your clothing, and then say that you've done all that you can, when even your hair probably carries the spores of WNS. Unless you want to cave in disposable gear, so that each time you enter the cave, you have on fresh, sterile, spore free gear, the effort is futile. How many can say that they have immersed their expensive caving helmet and lamp in decontaminant each and every time before they go into a cave? Washed your cave suit lately? You bet you have! Made you feel good that you were doing your part to contain WNS. BIG PROBLEM- you just put it back into the same dirty tote you got it out of. May look clean but guess again. You must put your stuff in a bag that has not touched any other surface suspected of carrying spores. That includes the back of your pick up truck you threw your expensive dusty caving helmet and gear into.. How many have decontaminated their vehicles? Tires, carpet, upholstery, roof liner, it all carries the same dirt from the last cave you were in. How about the dirt under your fingernails? Scrubbed your hands in decontaminate lately? Really scrubbed under those fingernails? You wash your hands, then pick up caving gear, decontaminate it, then pick it up again. Your gear is now dirty again because you just touched decontaminated gear with fingernails that still contain dirt under them, i.e. spores, if you ever had any in the first place. Now, does this sound completely and totally impossible to do? Yes it is. Therefore, the entire idea of decontaminating your gear is equally just a feel good measure. Pick up any medical book on sterile technique, then come back and still support the idea of field decontamination. It doesn't work. Same as a petition. Some individuals need a cause. Seems like the person mentioned below has found theirs, with complete disregard to fact or practicality. By the way, suppose you close all the caves? What are you going to do- stop the bats from going into them? Tell them to wipe their feet? How about a warm devon bath before flying out? Or that they arerestricted to just one cave?The entire thought is as ludicrous as a petition to close caves, decontamination, or any other hypothesis that is not supported by scientific, reproducible results. Pissing in the wind, tilting at windmills, call it what you like. All of this is simply emotion based bad science. Carl……. On Apr 13, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Stephen Fleming wrote: Total waste of time. CBD does not care one whit about public opinion. They are driven by the fact that they can reap millions in litigation. This is all about money, lots of it, and nothing more. Furthermore, whoever this guy Dunham is, he continues the misinformation by repeating (helpfully, to the CBD cause) that humans are a vector. That has never been demonstrated with any scientific evidence, after 6+ years of it being endlessly repeated as fact. Until the agencies grow a set and tell the CBD to go eff itself, nothing is going to change. Everything about the petition is 'feel good' and appealing to emotion/caver-logic viewpoint, and the pleas contained therein are of no interest to the politicos or litigants. Money talks; cavers are not even a blip on the money screen. Anyone who thinks the White House really thinks your opinion is important on any petition of this sort only needs to view prior petitions on any topic of your choosing to see how they pretty much all turn out. This is pissing in the wind. On 04/13/2012 12:31, Kathy Peerman wrote: Begin forwarded message
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
I really wish that petition was worded more like his letter below. Cleaning your gear with hot water is NOT decontamination. Please wash your gear first AND then decontaminate by immersing in 122f water for 15 minutes. Jen From: speleob...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:31:51 -0600 To: wilsonsofcolor...@yahoo.com; speleob...@comcast.net; mi...@fastwave.biz; grnpacav...@gmail.com; mike_dimat...@comcast.net; motoca...@gmail.com; regan...@nmsu.edu; tu...@sbcglobal.net; david.winn...@yahoo.com; karstpat...@gmail.com; wcwal...@zianet.com; robw...@wwdb.org; rambe...@zianet.com; jbac...@comcast.net; oldgru...@msn.com; elpasoca...@yahoo.com; lpeer...@lcsun-news.com; scottanderso...@yahoo.com; sarcave...@gmail.com; mike_bi...@blm.gov; nmba...@zianet.com; lee.t.wil...@gmail.com; katert...@comcast.net; rfos...@nmsu.edu; margaretwilso...@gmail.com; sldstev...@msn.com; siz...@hotmail.com; gra...@comcast.net; cor...@alum.dartmouth.org; gggr...@hotmail.com; dmartin...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; kver...@aol.com; hadl...@htg.net; mbbi...@yahoo.com; janice.tuc...@live.com; jkl...@yahoo.com; lawrence.r.fore...@saic.com; abthomi...@comcast.net; johnmo...@excite.com; forema...@saic.com; casto...@gmail.com; billgo...@gmail.com; mikelis...@msn.com; s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Begin forwarded message:From: seileo...@gmail.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT To: saltydigg...@yahoogroups.com, saltyrockeat...@yahoogroups.com, northeastcaveconserva...@yahoogroups.com, cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com Bcc: speleob...@comcast.net Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Hey, all, As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open. This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science, and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open. https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F Sincerely, John Dunham Kathy peermanspeleob...@comcast.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public
Though I admit that especially after working intimately with radioactive contamination (which is also invisible to the eye), I sometimes have a problem with suspending my disbelief with the WNS decontamination protocol, I do think that cavers are aware of how to clean ourselves. We are aware bats are THE vector for spreading WNS. But even if it is a one in a million chance that cavers (with no bat to human contact) could spread it, as cave conservationists, we need to not be that one in a million chance. Let's keep working towards a solution and not just fighting against people. Jen From: pagan...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:02:00 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Carl Pagano wrote:It is what I have been saying. There is NO scientific evidence that this is human spread. That involves work, including a control, and test group. After a conclusion has been reached, the experiment must be able to be repeated, several times, with the same results to support the original hypothesis. That humans as a vector of WNS? Prove it. It's much much easier to close caves, decontaminate your clothing, and then say that you've done all that you can, when even your hair probably carries the spores of WNS. Unless you want to cave in disposable gear, so that each time you enter the cave, you have on fresh, sterile, spore free gear, the effort is futile. How many can say that they have immersed their expensive caving helmet and lamp in decontaminant each and every time before they go into a cave? Washed your cave suit lately? You bet you have! Made you feel good that you were doing your part to contain WNS. BIG PROBLEM- you just put it back into the same dirty tote you got it out of. May look clean but guess again. You must put your stuff in a bag that has not touched any other surface suspected of carrying spores. That includes the back of your pick up truck you threw your expensive dusty caving helmet and gear into.. How many have decontaminated their vehicles? Tires, carpet, upholstery, roof liner, it all carries the same dirt from the last cave you were in. How about the dirt under your fingernails? Scrubbed your hands in decontaminate lately? Really scrubbed under those fingernails? You wash your hands, then pick up caving gear, decontaminate it, then pick it up again. Your gear is now dirty again because you just touched decontaminated gear with fingernails that still contain dirt under them, i.e. spores, if you ever had any in the first place. Now, does this sound completely and totally impossible to do? Yes it is. Therefore, the entire idea of decontaminating your gear is equally just a feel good measure. Pick up any medical book on sterile technique, then come back and still support the idea of field decontamination. It doesn't work. Same as a petition. Some individuals need a cause. Seems like the person mentioned below has found theirs, with complete disregard to fact or practicality. By the way, suppose you close all the caves? What are you going to do- stop the bats from going into them? Tell them to wipe their feet? How about a warm devon bath before flying out? Or that they arerestricted to just one cave?The entire thought is as ludicrous as a petition to close caves, decontamination, or any other hypothesis that is not supported by scientific, reproducible results. Pissing in the wind, tilting at windmills, call it what you like. All of this is simply emotion based bad science. Carl……. On Apr 13, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Stephen Fleming wrote: Total waste of time. CBD does not care one whit about public opinion. They are driven by the fact that they can reap millions in litigation. This is all about money, lots of it, and nothing more. Furthermore, whoever this guy Dunham is, he continues the misinformation by repeating (helpfully, to the CBD cause) that humans are a vector. That has never been demonstrated with any scientific evidence, after 6+ years of it being endlessly repeated as fact. Until the agencies grow a set and tell the CBD to go eff itself, nothing is going to change. Everything about the petition is 'feel good' and appealing to emotion/caver-logic viewpoint, and the pleas contained therein are of no interest to the politicos or litigants. Money talks; cavers are not even a blip on the money screen. Anyone who thinks the White House really thinks your opinion is important on any petition of this sort only needs to view prior petitions on any topic of your choosing to see how they pretty much all turn out. This is pissing in the wind. On 04/13/2012 12:31, Kathy Peerman wrote
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
I really wish that petition was worded more like his letter below. Cleaning your gear with hot water is NOT decontamination. Please wash your gear first AND then decontaminate by immersing in 122f water for 15 minutes. Jen From: speleob...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:31:51 -0600 To: wilsonsofcolor...@yahoo.com; speleob...@comcast.net; mi...@fastwave.biz; grnpacav...@gmail.com; mike_dimat...@comcast.net; motoca...@gmail.com; regan...@nmsu.edu; tu...@sbcglobal.net; david.winn...@yahoo.com; karstpat...@gmail.com; wcwal...@zianet.com; robw...@wwdb.org; rambe...@zianet.com; jbac...@comcast.net; oldgru...@msn.com; elpasoca...@yahoo.com; lpeer...@lcsun-news.com; scottanderso...@yahoo.com; sarcave...@gmail.com; mike_bi...@blm.gov; nmba...@zianet.com; lee.t.wil...@gmail.com; katert...@comcast.net; rfos...@nmsu.edu; margaretwilso...@gmail.com; sldstev...@msn.com; siz...@hotmail.com; gra...@comcast.net; cor...@alum.dartmouth.org; gggr...@hotmail.com; dmartin...@gmail.com; gypca...@comcast.net; kver...@aol.com; hadl...@htg.net; mbbi...@yahoo.com; janice.tuc...@live.com; jkl...@yahoo.com; lawrence.r.fore...@saic.com; abthomi...@comcast.net; johnmo...@excite.com; forema...@saic.com; casto...@gmail.com; billgo...@gmail.com; mikelis...@msn.com; s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Begin forwarded message:From: seileo...@gmail.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT To: saltydigg...@yahoogroups.com, saltyrockeat...@yahoogroups.com, northeastcaveconserva...@yahoogroups.com, cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com Bcc: speleob...@comcast.net Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public Hey, all, As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open. This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science, and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open. https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F Sincerely, John Dunham Kathy peermanspeleob...@comcast.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public
Though I admit that especially after working intimately with radioactive contamination (which is also invisible to the eye), I sometimes have a problem with suspending my disbelief with the WNS decontamination protocol, I do think that cavers are aware of how to clean ourselves. We are aware bats are THE vector for spreading WNS. But even if it is a one in a million chance that cavers (with no bat to human contact) could spread it, as cave conservationists, we need to not be that one in a million chance. Let's keep working towards a solution and not just fighting against people. Jen From: pagan...@comcast.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:02:00 -0600 To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] Petition to keep public caves open to the public On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Carl Pagano wrote:It is what I have been saying. There is NO scientific evidence that this is human spread. That involves work, including a control, and test group. After a conclusion has been reached, the experiment must be able to be repeated, several times, with the same results to support the original hypothesis. That humans as a vector of WNS? Prove it. It's much much easier to close caves, decontaminate your clothing, and then say that you've done all that you can, when even your hair probably carries the spores of WNS. Unless you want to cave in disposable gear, so that each time you enter the cave, you have on fresh, sterile, spore free gear, the effort is futile. How many can say that they have immersed their expensive caving helmet and lamp in decontaminant each and every time before they go into a cave? Washed your cave suit lately? You bet you have! Made you feel good that you were doing your part to contain WNS. BIG PROBLEM- you just put it back into the same dirty tote you got it out of. May look clean but guess again. You must put your stuff in a bag that has not touched any other surface suspected of carrying spores. That includes the back of your pick up truck you threw your expensive dusty caving helmet and gear into.. How many have decontaminated their vehicles? Tires, carpet, upholstery, roof liner, it all carries the same dirt from the last cave you were in. How about the dirt under your fingernails? Scrubbed your hands in decontaminate lately? Really scrubbed under those fingernails? You wash your hands, then pick up caving gear, decontaminate it, then pick it up again. Your gear is now dirty again because you just touched decontaminated gear with fingernails that still contain dirt under them, i.e. spores, if you ever had any in the first place. Now, does this sound completely and totally impossible to do? Yes it is. Therefore, the entire idea of decontaminating your gear is equally just a feel good measure. Pick up any medical book on sterile technique, then come back and still support the idea of field decontamination. It doesn't work. Same as a petition. Some individuals need a cause. Seems like the person mentioned below has found theirs, with complete disregard to fact or practicality. By the way, suppose you close all the caves? What are you going to do- stop the bats from going into them? Tell them to wipe their feet? How about a warm devon bath before flying out? Or that they arerestricted to just one cave?The entire thought is as ludicrous as a petition to close caves, decontamination, or any other hypothesis that is not supported by scientific, reproducible results. Pissing in the wind, tilting at windmills, call it what you like. All of this is simply emotion based bad science. Carl……. On Apr 13, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Stephen Fleming wrote: Total waste of time. CBD does not care one whit about public opinion. They are driven by the fact that they can reap millions in litigation. This is all about money, lots of it, and nothing more. Furthermore, whoever this guy Dunham is, he continues the misinformation by repeating (helpfully, to the CBD cause) that humans are a vector. That has never been demonstrated with any scientific evidence, after 6+ years of it being endlessly repeated as fact. Until the agencies grow a set and tell the CBD to go eff itself, nothing is going to change. Everything about the petition is 'feel good' and appealing to emotion/caver-logic viewpoint, and the pleas contained therein are of no interest to the politicos or litigants. Money talks; cavers are not even a blip on the money screen. Anyone who thinks the White House really thinks your opinion is important on any petition of this sort only needs to view prior petitions on any topic of your choosing to see how they pretty much all turn out. This is pissing in the wind. On 04/13/2012 12:31, Kathy Peerman wrote
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: petition to CEQ on coordinating federal response to WNS
~~~ WILDLIFE:Enviros petition CEQ to coordinate bat-protection efforts (Wednesday, April 11, 2012) Laura Petersen, EE reporter The Center for Biological Diversity today petitioned the Obama administration to coordinate a federal response to slow the spread of a fungus that is killing millions of bats. White-nose syndrome is estimated to have killed more than 6.7 million bats in 19 states and four Canadian provinces since it was first discovered in a New York cave in 2006. Although the Fish and Wildlife Service released a white-nose syndrome national response plan last year, a lack of coordination between land-management agencies has led to inconsistent restrictions on cave access where bats hibernate and hampered the plan's implementation, the group wrote in a petition to Nancy Sutley, chairwoman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. What is most needed to resolve this crisis -- and it is a massive biological crisis -- is to really make sure all the federal agencies are on the same page and pushing in the same direction, William Snape, senior counsel for Center for Biological Diversity, said in an interview. CEQ, a presidential office that coordinates federal environmental efforts, is well-positioned to improve coordination between agencies and increase the chances of slowing the spread of the disease by people to currently uninfected areas, Snape said. The petition requests that CEQ direct federal agencies to develop and implement regulations that restrict non-essential human access to caves and abandoned mines utilized by bats. We are not talking about blanket closures, Snape said. We are talking about science-based closures, science-based regulations. And CEQ, under [the National Environmental Policy Act] is the right agency to do that. While bats are believed to be the primary vector to spread the disease, research published Monday suggests the fungus originated in Europe, lending support to the theory that the disease was accidentally introduced to North America by humans (EENews PM, April 9). FWS currently recommends cavers follow strict decontamination protocols of their clothes and gear to ensure no stray spore spreads to other caves. The agency's biggest concern is that a human-mediated jump to a new part of the country could speed the spread of the disease, outpacing research efforts to slow its spread or even potential treatments, Jeremy Coleman, the agency's white-nose syndrome coordinator, said earlier this year (Land Letter, March 1). The petition asks CEQ to direct federal agencies to require decontamination protocols where access is still allowed. It also requests that the council require agencies to conduct inventories of caves to identify which contain bats and are considered significant under the Federal Cave Resources Protection Act. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has not had time to review the petition, and cannot provide comment about the content of the request to the Council on Environmental Quality,” said Ann Froschauer, the service's national white-nose syndrome communications leader. Click hereto read the petition. ~ Mollie Matteson, M.S. Conservation Advocate Center for Biological Diversity Northeast Field Office PO Box 188 Richmond, VT 05477 802-434-2388 (office) 802-318-1487 (cell) mmatte...@biologicaldiversity.org www.biologicaldiversity.org CEQ_bat_petition_4-11-12.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: petition to CEQ on coordinating federal response to WNS
~~~ WILDLIFE:Enviros petition CEQ to coordinate bat-protection efforts (Wednesday, April 11, 2012) Laura Petersen, EE reporter The Center for Biological Diversity today petitioned the Obama administration to coordinate a federal response to slow the spread of a fungus that is killing millions of bats. White-nose syndrome is estimated to have killed more than 6.7 million bats in 19 states and four Canadian provinces since it was first discovered in a New York cave in 2006. Although the Fish and Wildlife Service released a white-nose syndrome national response plan last year, a lack of coordination between land-management agencies has led to inconsistent restrictions on cave access where bats hibernate and hampered the plan's implementation, the group wrote in a petition to Nancy Sutley, chairwoman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. What is most needed to resolve this crisis -- and it is a massive biological crisis -- is to really make sure all the federal agencies are on the same page and pushing in the same direction, William Snape, senior counsel for Center for Biological Diversity, said in an interview. CEQ, a presidential office that coordinates federal environmental efforts, is well-positioned to improve coordination between agencies and increase the chances of slowing the spread of the disease by people to currently uninfected areas, Snape said. The petition requests that CEQ direct federal agencies to develop and implement regulations that restrict non-essential human access to caves and abandoned mines utilized by bats. We are not talking about blanket closures, Snape said. We are talking about science-based closures, science-based regulations. And CEQ, under [the National Environmental Policy Act] is the right agency to do that. While bats are believed to be the primary vector to spread the disease, research published Monday suggests the fungus originated in Europe, lending support to the theory that the disease was accidentally introduced to North America by humans (EENews PM, April 9). FWS currently recommends cavers follow strict decontamination protocols of their clothes and gear to ensure no stray spore spreads to other caves. The agency's biggest concern is that a human-mediated jump to a new part of the country could speed the spread of the disease, outpacing research efforts to slow its spread or even potential treatments, Jeremy Coleman, the agency's white-nose syndrome coordinator, said earlier this year (Land Letter, March 1). The petition asks CEQ to direct federal agencies to require decontamination protocols where access is still allowed. It also requests that the council require agencies to conduct inventories of caves to identify which contain bats and are considered significant under the Federal Cave Resources Protection Act. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has not had time to review the petition, and cannot provide comment about the content of the request to the Council on Environmental Quality,” said Ann Froschauer, the service's national white-nose syndrome communications leader. Click hereto read the petition. ~ Mollie Matteson, M.S. Conservation Advocate Center for Biological Diversity Northeast Field Office PO Box 188 Richmond, VT 05477 802-434-2388 (office) 802-318-1487 (cell) mmatte...@biologicaldiversity.org www.biologicaldiversity.org CEQ_bat_petition_4-11-12.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Fwd: petition to CEQ on coordinating federal response to WNS
~~~ WILDLIFE:Enviros petition CEQ to coordinate bat-protection efforts (Wednesday, April 11, 2012) Laura Petersen, EE reporter The Center for Biological Diversity today petitioned the Obama administration to coordinate a federal response to slow the spread of a fungus that is killing millions of bats. White-nose syndrome is estimated to have killed more than 6.7 million bats in 19 states and four Canadian provinces since it was first discovered in a New York cave in 2006. Although the Fish and Wildlife Service released a white-nose syndrome national response plan last year, a lack of coordination between land-management agencies has led to inconsistent restrictions on cave access where bats hibernate and hampered the plan's implementation, the group wrote in a petition to Nancy Sutley, chairwoman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. What is most needed to resolve this crisis -- and it is a massive biological crisis -- is to really make sure all the federal agencies are on the same page and pushing in the same direction, William Snape, senior counsel for Center for Biological Diversity, said in an interview. CEQ, a presidential office that coordinates federal environmental efforts, is well-positioned to improve coordination between agencies and increase the chances of slowing the spread of the disease by people to currently uninfected areas, Snape said. The petition requests that CEQ direct federal agencies to develop and implement regulations that restrict non-essential human access to caves and abandoned mines utilized by bats. We are not talking about blanket closures, Snape said. We are talking about science-based closures, science-based regulations. And CEQ, under [the National Environmental Policy Act] is the right agency to do that. While bats are believed to be the primary vector to spread the disease, research published Monday suggests the fungus originated in Europe, lending support to the theory that the disease was accidentally introduced to North America by humans (EENews PM, April 9). FWS currently recommends cavers follow strict decontamination protocols of their clothes and gear to ensure no stray spore spreads to other caves. The agency's biggest concern is that a human-mediated jump to a new part of the country could speed the spread of the disease, outpacing research efforts to slow its spread or even potential treatments, Jeremy Coleman, the agency's white-nose syndrome coordinator, said earlier this year (Land Letter, March 1). The petition asks CEQ to direct federal agencies to require decontamination protocols where access is still allowed. It also requests that the council require agencies to conduct inventories of caves to identify which contain bats and are considered significant under the Federal Cave Resources Protection Act. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has not had time to review the petition, and cannot provide comment about the content of the request to the Council on Environmental Quality,” said Ann Froschauer, the service's national white-nose syndrome communications leader. Click hereto read the petition. ~ Mollie Matteson, M.S. Conservation Advocate Center for Biological Diversity Northeast Field Office PO Box 188 Richmond, VT 05477 802-434-2388 (office) 802-318-1487 (cell) mmatte...@biologicaldiversity.org www.biologicaldiversity.org CEQ_bat_petition_4-11-12.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] CaveSim at NSS Caving Convention 2012
The Cave Simulator that was at convention in Colorado is looking for donations to buy a trailer so they can take it to convention and to other events. They've even been using it to train search and rescue personnel about how to move through caves. You can watch an entertaining video and donate here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/813491856/cavesim-at-nss-caving-convention-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] CaveSim at NSS Caving Convention 2012
The Cave Simulator that was at convention in Colorado is looking for donations to buy a trailer so they can take it to convention and to other events. They've even been using it to train search and rescue personnel about how to move through caves. You can watch an entertaining video and donate here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/813491856/cavesim-at-nss-caving-convention-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] CaveSim at NSS Caving Convention 2012
The Cave Simulator that was at convention in Colorado is looking for donations to buy a trailer so they can take it to convention and to other events. They've even been using it to train search and rescue personnel about how to move through caves. You can watch an entertaining video and donate here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/813491856/cavesim-at-nss-caving-convention-2012 Jen. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: New Decon Protocols Released
Here's the link: http://whitenosesyndrome.org/sites/default/files/resource/national_wns_decontamination_protocol_v_03.15.2012.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: New Decon Protocols Released
Here's the link: http://whitenosesyndrome.org/sites/default/files/resource/national_wns_decontamination_protocol_v_03.15.2012.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: New Decon Protocols Released
Here's the link: http://whitenosesyndrome.org/sites/default/files/resource/national_wns_decontamination_protocol_v_03.15.2012.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
I forwarded on to Frank. I thought it looked like Sam Bono, but he didn't respond to my email yet. I agree that it looks like the 90's in that photo. But then I don't really know what 80's cavers looked like. Jen From: mbi...@blm.gov To: lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 09:52:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Trying to enlarge that on a Blackberry blurs it out too fast. So, in a brilliant combination of new and old technology (I bought a magnifying glass), yep - a wheatlamp and what appear to be Bomber Gear kneepads - possibly from the BLM cache. The big guy in the back looks like Frank Everitt but still couldn't zero in enough. I don't have Frank's email on this device so if anyone has the current, please forward to him and ask him to confirm yea or nay to Linda. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
I forwarded on to Frank. I thought it looked like Sam Bono, but he didn't respond to my email yet. I agree that it looks like the 90's in that photo. But then I don't really know what 80's cavers looked like. Jen From: mbi...@blm.gov To: lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 09:52:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Trying to enlarge that on a Blackberry blurs it out too fast. So, in a brilliant combination of new and old technology (I bought a magnifying glass), yep - a wheatlamp and what appear to be Bomber Gear kneepads - possibly from the BLM cache. The big guy in the back looks like Frank Everitt but still couldn't zero in enough. I don't have Frank's email on this device so if anyone has the current, please forward to him and ask him to confirm yea or nay to Linda. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
I forwarded on to Frank. I thought it looked like Sam Bono, but he didn't respond to my email yet. I agree that it looks like the 90's in that photo. But then I don't really know what 80's cavers looked like. Jen From: mbi...@blm.gov To: lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 09:52:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Trying to enlarge that on a Blackberry blurs it out too fast. So, in a brilliant combination of new and old technology (I bought a magnifying glass), yep - a wheatlamp and what appear to be Bomber Gear kneepads - possibly from the BLM cache. The big guy in the back looks like Frank Everitt but still couldn't zero in enough. I don't have Frank's email on this device so if anyone has the current, please forward to him and ask him to confirm yea or nay to Linda. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
Peter responded yesterday and didn't take credit for the photo. Jen. From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: mbi...@blm.gov; lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:29:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Mike, I think the photo is from Peter Jones and could be as far back as 2004. I don’t have Peter’s email address, but asked someone else to check. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bilbo, Michael J Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 11:17 AM To: 'lstarr...@gmail.com'; 's...@caver.net' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo I-ve seen that photo before and think it was mineralogy or DNA HIB trip from 2008-2010 but can't I'd anyone via the Blackberry screen. On Wednesday or Thursday I'll be able to look at permits to find the last Lincoln trips. John Corcoran - can you do a search through FSCSP reports to see when the last Lincoln trips were? Diana Northup -could you do same? My recollection of late period pre-moratorium was a DNA HIB trip. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
Peter responded yesterday and didn't take credit for the photo. Jen. From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: mbi...@blm.gov; lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:29:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Mike, I think the photo is from Peter Jones and could be as far back as 2004. I don’t have Peter’s email address, but asked someone else to check. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bilbo, Michael J Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 11:17 AM To: 'lstarr...@gmail.com'; 's...@caver.net' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo I-ve seen that photo before and think it was mineralogy or DNA HIB trip from 2008-2010 but can't I'd anyone via the Blackberry screen. On Wednesday or Thursday I'll be able to look at permits to find the last Lincoln trips. John Corcoran - can you do a search through FSCSP reports to see when the last Lincoln trips were? Diana Northup -could you do same? My recollection of late period pre-moratorium was a DNA HIB trip. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo
Peter responded yesterday and didn't take credit for the photo. Jen. From: john_j_corcoran_...@msn.com To: mbi...@blm.gov; lstarr...@gmail.com; s...@caver.net List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:29:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Mike, I think the photo is from Peter Jones and could be as far back as 2004. I don’t have Peter’s email address, but asked someone else to check. Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bilbo, Michael J Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 11:17 AM To: 'lstarr...@gmail.com'; 's...@caver.net' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo I-ve seen that photo before and think it was mineralogy or DNA HIB trip from 2008-2010 but can't I'd anyone via the Blackberry screen. On Wednesday or Thursday I'll be able to look at permits to find the last Lincoln trips. John Corcoran - can you do a search through FSCSP reports to see when the last Lincoln trips were? Diana Northup -could you do same? My recollection of late period pre-moratorium was a DNA HIB trip. From: Linda Starr [mailto:lstarr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 12:09 AM To: Southwestern Region s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fwd: Lincoln Cavern photo Hi All, This photo is being used in the Lincoln Caverns Discovery story written by Lee Skinner for the 50th Anniversary Memoir booklet. Does anyone out there recognize this photo and know who the people are and what year this was taken? Let me know if you know anything about it. Linda Starr ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Congressional Briefing on WNS Set for March 22
Briefing: What?s Killing All of the Bats? And Why Should We Be Worried? Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:30 pm Russell Senate Office Building 328a Senator Leahy, Senator Cardin, and Senator Lautenberg are hosting a briefing and discussion of White-Nose Syndrome in bats, an emerging ecological and animal welfare crisis that poses a threat to agriculture, the environment, and economic activity that is spreading across the country. White-Nose Syndrome (WNS) is estimated to have killed well over five million bats since its discovery in 2006. Since then, it has caused the most precipitous decline of North American wildlife in the past century. With the announcement yesterday of the discovery of WNS in Alabama, a total of 17 states http://www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome/maps/WNSMAP_03-15-12_300dpi.jpg and four Canadian Provinces have been confirmed with the disease. This finding in Alabama represents the southern-most occurrence of WNS in North America. The loss of bats will likely have serious consequences, costing our nation?s farmers billions of dollars http://www.fort.usgs.gov/Products/Publications/23069a/23069a.pdf. Since bats eat many insects, including pests that damage crops such as corn, cotton, and potatoes, and that carry diseases such as West Nile Virus. Mining, energy development, tourism, and other industries will be affected if more bat species are declared threatened or endangered. And the absence of this keystone predator may have profound impacts on the environment. You are invited to attend this briefing to hear from leading experts who will address these topics and more, including what can be done to stop WNS. Speakers: · Jeremy Coleman, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - National White-nose Syndrome Coordinator · Paul Phifer, Assistant Regional Director for Ecological Services - USFWS Northeast Region · David Blehert, Microbiologist for the USGS National Wildlife Health Center___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Congressional Briefing on WNS Set for March 22
Briefing: What?s Killing All of the Bats? And Why Should We Be Worried? Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:30 pm Russell Senate Office Building 328a Senator Leahy, Senator Cardin, and Senator Lautenberg are hosting a briefing and discussion of White-Nose Syndrome in bats, an emerging ecological and animal welfare crisis that poses a threat to agriculture, the environment, and economic activity that is spreading across the country. White-Nose Syndrome (WNS) is estimated to have killed well over five million bats since its discovery in 2006. Since then, it has caused the most precipitous decline of North American wildlife in the past century. With the announcement yesterday of the discovery of WNS in Alabama, a total of 17 states http://www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome/maps/WNSMAP_03-15-12_300dpi.jpg and four Canadian Provinces have been confirmed with the disease. This finding in Alabama represents the southern-most occurrence of WNS in North America. The loss of bats will likely have serious consequences, costing our nation?s farmers billions of dollars http://www.fort.usgs.gov/Products/Publications/23069a/23069a.pdf. Since bats eat many insects, including pests that damage crops such as corn, cotton, and potatoes, and that carry diseases such as West Nile Virus. Mining, energy development, tourism, and other industries will be affected if more bat species are declared threatened or endangered. And the absence of this keystone predator may have profound impacts on the environment. You are invited to attend this briefing to hear from leading experts who will address these topics and more, including what can be done to stop WNS. Speakers: · Jeremy Coleman, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - National White-nose Syndrome Coordinator · Paul Phifer, Assistant Regional Director for Ecological Services - USFWS Northeast Region · David Blehert, Microbiologist for the USGS National Wildlife Health Center___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News - WNS in Alabama
Breaking News: WNS Confirmed in Alabama Attached is the official press release. Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 WNS found in Alabama.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: Breaking News - WNS in Alabama
Breaking News: WNS Confirmed in Alabama Attached is the official press release. Peter Youngbaer White Nose Syndrome Liaison National Speleological Society (802) 272-3802 WNS found in Alabama.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate
The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of at least 5.7 - 6.7 million bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is significantly higher than available research would support. The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate
The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of at least 5.7 - 6.7 million bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is significantly higher than available research would support. The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate
The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of at least 5.7 - 6.7 million bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is significantly higher than available research would support. The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the website, and linked here: http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: [azregion] ARA Winter Technical schedule maps - 1/28/12 9am! [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from Sarah Truebe included below] Hi all, Attached please find two documents: the schedule for the ARA Winter Technical on Saturday, January 28, 2012; and a series of maps, parking, and lunch info. Please note, thelocation of the event has changed. The new location is: Gould-Simpson Building, Rm. 209 University of Arizona 1040 E. 4th St. Tucson, AZ 85721 The website for the ARA is: http://ke7hr.com/ara/ara.htm We will start with some light refreshments at 9am, courtesy of Escabrosa Grotto, Inc. If you would like to help set up, or would like extra time choosing a seat in the room, I'll be there starting at 8:30am. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments, and I look forward to seeing you there! Please forward to anyone I might have missed! Cheers, Sarah -- Sarah A TruebePhD Candidate Dept of Geosciences, University of Arizona office: Gould-Simpson Bldg, Rm. 350 phone: 520-302-4217 __._,_.___Attachment(s) from Sarah Truebe 2 of 2 File(s) ARA_maps.pdf ARA2012_speakerslist_finalfinal.pdf Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity:* New Members 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] Fw: [azregion] ARA Winter Technical schedule maps - 1/28/12 9am! [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from Sarah Truebe included below] Hi all, Attached please find two documents: the schedule for the ARA Winter Technical on Saturday, January 28, 2012; and a series of maps, parking, and lunch info. Please note, thelocation of the event has changed. The new location is: Gould-Simpson Building, Rm. 209 University of Arizona 1040 E. 4th St. Tucson, AZ 85721 The website for the ARA is: http://ke7hr.com/ara/ara.htm We will start with some light refreshments at 9am, courtesy of Escabrosa Grotto, Inc. If you would like to help set up, or would like extra time choosing a seat in the room, I'll be there starting at 8:30am. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments, and I look forward to seeing you there! Please forward to anyone I might have missed! Cheers, Sarah -- Sarah A TruebePhD Candidate Dept of Geosciences, University of Arizona office: Gould-Simpson Bldg, Rm. 350 phone: 520-302-4217 __._,_.___Attachment(s) from Sarah Truebe 2 of 2 File(s) ARA_maps.pdf ARA2012_speakerslist_finalfinal.pdf Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity:* New Members 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FWS estimates Bat Death Toll Exceeds 5.5 Million From WNS
On the verge of another season of winter hibernating bat surveys, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists and partners estimate that at least 5.7 million to 6.7 million bats have now died from white-nose syndrome. http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/Query.as ... Cache=True ---U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Susie von Oettingen and Vermont Fish and Wildlife's Scott Darling interviewed on Vermont Public Radio. WNS is the first segment of the program. http://www.vpr.net/episode/52805/white-nose-syndrome-developments/___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FWS estimates Bat Death Toll Exceeds 5.5 Million From WNS
On the verge of another season of winter hibernating bat surveys, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologists and partners estimate that at least 5.7 million to 6.7 million bats have now died from white-nose syndrome. http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/Query.as ... Cache=True ---U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Susie von Oettingen and Vermont Fish and Wildlife's Scott Darling interviewed on Vermont Public Radio. WNS is the first segment of the program. http://www.vpr.net/episode/52805/white-nose-syndrome-developments/___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FW: PLEASE HELP! Only 10 days left to get 22, 000 signatures!
The NSS WNS Liaison is also endorsing this effort, please sign! From: i...@batcon.org Subject: PLEASE HELP! Only 10 days left to get 22,000 signatures! To: bigredfo...@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:41:17 -0500 We need 22,000 Signatures Before November 25! Please Help! We must convince President Obama to include funding for the fight against White-nose Syndrome in his Fiscal Year 2013 budget. But with current economic constraints, the President needs to hear from the public about the devastating cost of WNS. We are using the White House’s new “We the People” petition tool to make our request. White House staff will review our request only if we obtain 25,000 signatures by November 25! SIGN UP HERE If you already have a whitehouse.gov account: Sign In to your account at the bottom of the petition page. After signing in, use the above link to return to the petition page and sign the petition. If you are new to the whitehouse.gov webpage: Click Create an Account at the bottom of the petition page. Enter your information. Check your email account for log-on information from “We the People.” Verify your new “We the People” account by clicking the link provided in the automated email. Return to the whitehouse.gov webpage by clicking the above “Sign Here” link, which will take you directly to the WNS petition. Click the Sign this Petition button. We know it’s not easy to register on this site, but we really need you to sign the petition. Please don’t give up. After signing, ask your friends, family and colleagues to sign, too! Thank you for your help! Bat Conservation International P.O. Box 162603 Austin, TX 78716 Phone: (512) 327-9721 | Fax: (512) 327-9724 | Email: i...@batcon.org Privacy Policy | Email Preferences Opt-out © Bat Conservation International, Inc. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
[SWR] FW: PLEASE HELP! Only 10 days left to get 22, 000 signatures!
The NSS WNS Liaison is also endorsing this effort, please sign! From: i...@batcon.org Subject: PLEASE HELP! Only 10 days left to get 22,000 signatures! To: bigredfo...@hotmail.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:41:17 -0500 We need 22,000 Signatures Before November 25! Please Help! We must convince President Obama to include funding for the fight against White-nose Syndrome in his Fiscal Year 2013 budget. But with current economic constraints, the President needs to hear from the public about the devastating cost of WNS. We are using the White House’s new “We the People” petition tool to make our request. White House staff will review our request only if we obtain 25,000 signatures by November 25! SIGN UP HERE If you already have a whitehouse.gov account: Sign In to your account at the bottom of the petition page. After signing in, use the above link to return to the petition page and sign the petition. If you are new to the whitehouse.gov webpage: Click Create an Account at the bottom of the petition page. Enter your information. Check your email account for log-on information from “We the People.” Verify your new “We the People” account by clicking the link provided in the automated email. Return to the whitehouse.gov webpage by clicking the above “Sign Here” link, which will take you directly to the WNS petition. Click the Sign this Petition button. We know it’s not easy to register on this site, but we really need you to sign the petition. Please don’t give up. After signing, ask your friends, family and colleagues to sign, too! Thank you for your help! Bat Conservation International P.O. Box 162603 Austin, TX 78716 Phone: (512) 327-9721 | Fax: (512) 327-9724 | Email: i...@batcon.org Privacy Policy | Email Preferences Opt-out © Bat Conservation International, Inc. ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
