Re: [Texascavers] unsubscribe

2018-01-13 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
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Unsubscribe 

scotts.la...@yahoo.com


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> On Jan 13, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Thompson via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe
> 
> jen...@mailowl.net
> 
>> On 1/12/2018 5:11 PM, Bob Marshall via Texascavers wrote:
>> Unsubscribe
>> bobmarshal...@gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Midnight Cave -- Lower Entrance

2017-11-06 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
--- Begin Message ---
TCMA...That’s totally awesome caving stuff, of course! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Bill Steele via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> How about the TCMA acquiring Midnight Cave and more caves for caving? 
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Scott C  wrote:
>> 
>> I totally agree with Gregg. This is real caving stuff that is interesting :) 
>> Thanks for sharing!
>> 
>> Scott Cogburn 
>> GHG
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Gregg Williams via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This sort of stuff is what this email list should have more of. 
>>> 
>>> Gregg
>>> 
 On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 9:27 AM, James Jasek via Texascavers 
  wrote:
 Great story
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhoneiPhone
 
 On Nov 5, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
  wrote:
 
 In Carl's message about digging open the lower entrance from inside 
 Midnight Cave, he didn't mention what happened next--one of many stories 
 in the lore of the Carta Valley cavers.
 
 Carl's original version is in the chapter on Midnight Cave in his 50 Years 
 of Texas Caving pp. 458-467.
 It is better than my synopsis below. 
 
 LowGun
 
 The successful dig gave Carl Kunath, Ron Bridgemon, Chuck Pease, and Nick 
 Lucas a rare opportunity to play a devilish trick on the other two members 
 of the team. Jan and Orion Knox were at the back of the cave where they 
 had pushed through the tortuous Corkscrew into a significant unexplored 
 section of the cave.
 
 The dig crew exited the new entrance, walked over to the pit entrance, and 
 pulled up the rope. They reentered through the lower entrance and met up 
 with Jan and Orion, who were not told of the discovery. Arriving at the 
 bottom of the pit entrance to find no rope, the conspirators feigned 
 dismay and consternation, but were disappointed at the calm reaction of 
 Jan and Orion. A brief quest for another way out surprised them with 
 sunlight coming through the new entrance.
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Re: [Texascavers] Midnight Cave -- Lower Entrance

2017-11-06 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
--- Begin Message ---
I totally agree with Gregg. This is real caving stuff that is interesting :) 
Thanks for sharing!

Scott Cogburn 
GHG

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Gregg Williams via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> This sort of stuff is what this email list should have more of. 
> 
> Gregg
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 9:27 AM, James Jasek via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> Great story
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhoneiPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 5, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Logan McNatt via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> In Carl's message about digging open the lower entrance from inside Midnight 
>> Cave, he didn't mention what happened next--one of many stories in the lore 
>> of the Carta Valley cavers.
>> 
>> Carl's original version is in the chapter on Midnight Cave in his 50 Years 
>> of Texas Caving pp. 458-467.
>> It is better than my synopsis below. 
>> 
>> LowGun
>> 
>> The successful dig gave Carl Kunath, Ron Bridgemon, Chuck Pease, and Nick 
>> Lucas a rare opportunity to play a devilish trick on the other two members 
>> of the team. Jan and Orion Knox were at the back of the cave where they had 
>> pushed through the tortuous Corkscrew into a significant unexplored section 
>> of the cave.
>> 
>> The dig crew exited the new entrance, walked over to the pit entrance, and 
>> pulled up the rope. They reentered through the lower entrance and met up 
>> with Jan and Orion, who were not told of the discovery. Arriving at the 
>> bottom of the pit entrance to find no rope, the conspirators feigned dismay 
>> and consternation, but were disappointed at the calm reaction of Jan and 
>> Orion. A brief quest for another way out surprised them with sunlight coming 
>> through the new entrance.
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Re: [Texascavers] Reminder - Bexar Grotto Christmas Party tomorrow (December 17 at 6 pm) See info below.

2016-12-16 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
That is the most awesome Christmas party invite ever! Lol :) Love it! I was 
cracking up while reading the part about the roof and the cat o nine tails! 
Y'all must really bring it at your grotto party!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 8:38 AM, Geary Schindel via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> The Bexar Grotto Holiday Party will be held on Saturday, December 17th from 6 
> pm until whenever at Geary and Sue Schindel's house located at 11310 Whisper 
> Dawn in San Antonio. Phone is 210.479.2151. This is the same location as last 
> year. The grotto will be providing a ham and other fixings and attendees are 
> asked to bring an appropriate dish or dishes. There is a grill available in 
> the backyard but we also encourage folks to bring dishes that have already 
> been prepared as much of the kitchen space is taken up by blenders and glass 
> containers and there is little room to prepare a dish. There is a microwave, 
> oven, and stove top for heating up dishes as necessary.
> The grotto will not be providing adult beverages but please feel free to 
> bring your own beverage of choice. Please make sure that you drink 
> responsibly.
> There will also be a White Elephant gift exchange with certain restrictions. 
> Gifts in the $5 to $20 range are appropriate and creative homemade gifts are 
> always appreciated - especially if they are funny or related to caving (maybe 
> another "Cat O 9" will make an appearance).  The house rules are that If you 
> receive a gift,  you must take it home. If no one takes your gift, you have 
> to take that home also. The only exception is beer, wine, or liquor - you can 
> leave that. We would also encourage you to take home your dishes you bring 
> and check out the selection as you may have one left over from last year. 
> Please no pets as gifts - they tend to be left behind and usually end up in 
> my neighbor's yard for some reason.
> We're all for a separate exchange for kids if a parent wants to organize 
> that. My kids are great so no, you can't change your kids for my kids no 
> matter how much my kids beg.
> Couple of ground rules:
> * Event attire is Christmas Casual. That means you're welcome to 
> dress up or not but please, make sure you change out of caving cloths and 
> leave muddy boots in the car. If you need a shower before the party, we have 
> a hose in the backyard (and lotion - you can either use the lotion or "gets 
> the hose.").
> * If you've had too much to drink, we will find someone to drive you 
> home or find a place for you at or under the house.
> * Kids are welcome but they need to be well behaved. No running in 
> and out of the house or playing around the fire in the backyard. Our house is 
> not kid proof and we don't want anyone hurt.
> * Please be careful where you park and don't block any of the 
> neighbor's drive ways. However, street parking is fair game so don't let 
> anyone tell you otherwise. No open containers in the street and please don't 
> throw any bottles in people's front or backyards. Note there is some 
> construction in the neighborhood so be careful where you walk.
> * The hot tub is hot and open for business (102 F). If you want to 
> get in, plan accordingly (Bring a towel if you have one.). Please no diving 
> or jumping and no snorkels and masks and there is no lifeguard on duty. Tub 
> at your own risk.
> * Please leave your guns at home.
> * No keg stands, that resulted in some pretty messy accidents at the 
> last party and we don't need that in the house (however, I now have a plunger 
> in every bathroom - live and learn).
> * If you get a Cat O Nine Tails in the gift exchange, we would 
> recommend you put it away as they can leave some nasty long term marks for 
> the inexperienced (as Rob K how we know that).
> * No pets, including service animals. We now have three pets that 
> don't tolerate other animals very well - no matter how well trained they are.
> * Stay off the roof and out of the trees - no good can come of it 
> (geezzz. I hate having to keep posting this every year).
> Hopefully, the ground rules aren't too restrictive.
> Geary and Sue Schindel
> 11310 Whisper Dawn
> San Antonio, Texas 78230
> 210.479.2151 phone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver

2016-10-26 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Well put, Don:)

Scott Cogburn 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> As a trained and educated artist, recent volunteer Texas Cavers Reunion cat 
> herder, and past Texas Caver Editor (a particularly thankless job) I have 
> always found plenty of folks to endlessly criticize or complain, it's an 
> integral part of the job and one learns to recognize the difference between 
> "criticism" & "opinion". However, novices (volunteers who stepped up to do a 
> job when no one else would) aren't usually trained or skilled or ready to 
> deal with criticism. It can be counterproductive.
> 
> At TCR typically I ask critics to step up and help solve whatever they think 
> isn't happening to their expectation. One of two things happens; they step up 
> and do something -or- they shut up and do nothing. In my experience the vast 
> majority of complainers choose the latter.
> 
> At TCR, lots of people voice ideas about how it -should- be done, and I get 
> tons of criticism of how "it got done wrong", or how "it should be done in 
> the future" or how "it was done better in the past". Plenty of suggestions, 
> oodles of constructive ideas. But when it come time for those same volunteers 
> to step up and stand behind their suggestions and help - very very few ever 
> follow through. Ever. They usually disappear with the words "how about 
> helping out then?" The ones that actually see the job done are the ones who 
> want it done and do it. 
> 
> Criticism can be constructive, such as when someone expects it or asks for 
> it. Or the critic is willing to step in and help firsthand, which is usually 
> welcomed. Especially useful are wisdom and experience. Otherwise it's just 
> opinion.
> 
> When someone is struggling on the side of a busy highway trying to change a 
> flat tire, it's real easy to drive past and shout out the window "lift with 
> your knees!"
> 
> --Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Don
> On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
>> The Texas Caver
>>  
>> So here we go again with the Texas Caver.  Every few years we are seeking a 
>> new editor or at least discussing options that might disburse the rowdy 
>> crowds that are assembling at the gates with torches and pitchforks. 
>>  
>> What is gong on here?  Why is it that every few years there is a Texas Caver 
>> crisis and a less than graceful transition to a new editor?
>>  
>> There is lots of talk about the Texas Caver.  From the outset, there seems 
>> to have been some confusion regarding the difference between good journalism 
>> and nice graphic arts. Unfortunately, neither has been regularly in 
>> evidence.  Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall anyone praising the 
>> Caver for high quality journalism or the reliability of production.  The 
>> editor has a few passionate defenders who are willing to do battle with any 
>> and all detractors, but the current editorial has now acknowledged what has 
>> been evident for several years.
>>  
>> The coming transition is an opportunity to learn from previous mistakes. 
>> Texas cavers appreciate good grammar, proper spelling, and nice graphics 
>> but, failing that, are willing to forgive a lot if the Caver shows signs of 
>> having been carefully crafted with attention to detail:  nice photographs 
>> properly captioned and credited; articles well laid out with all elements 
>> present; no space used as a personal blog; and perhaps most importantly, 
>> timely production.
>>  
>> I was handed a copy of the most recent Texas Caver at the TSA meeting Sunday 
>> morning, October 16.  When I looked at the cover, my first thought was 
>> "huh?"   I rotated the page through 360 degrees as I searched in vain for a 
>> person or anything for scale.  Despairing, I then looked inside for the 
>> caption information.  I didn't find much.  The picture credits Peter Bosted 
>> and apparently depicts a scene from the Big Island, Hawaii.  I infer that it 
>> pictures something within a cave and is not merely a hand sample from a flea 
>> market or mineral show.  As usual, there is no proper caption information.  
>> A closer look at the cover reveals "haul" to be misspelled and a Government 
>> Canyon report proffered as being from "2105."  Those errors are egregious 
>> and, sadly, are but a preview of others to come.
>>  
>> In the present issue (the word "current" can't properly be applied since it 
>> is about six months late),  pages 4 and 5 are mostly filled with 
>> pictures—none with caption information—and the top photo on page 4 suffers 
>> from a lack of pixel information by at least one order of magnitude.  Where 
>> is the graphic arts expertise we are often reminded of?  If a photo is 
>> essential and a small file is the  best available, then please reduce the 
>> printed size.  At the top of page 5 there is a full half page devoted to two 
>> guys stirring

Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!

2016-07-08 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
ROFLMAO!!! Hilarious, Stefan :) 

Scott Cogburn :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 3:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know it’s Friday when…
>  
> The number of posts complaining about the number of posts David makes… 
> exceeds the number of posts David makes.
>  
> Cheers,
> Stefan Creaser
> Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
> 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
> Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
> Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 3:35 PM
> To: Cavetex
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!
>  
> Oh come on Bill, you know you wanna :)
>  
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Bill Bentley - ca...@caver.net via 
> Texascavers  wrote:
> Yes take it over... LOL... been there done that... Thank you but no... I just 
> delete.
> Bill Bentley
> ca...@caver.net 
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers  
> Date: 7/8/16 3:29 PM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: Cavetex  
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Can Locklear please restrain himself !!
> 
> We have 4 rules: http://texascavers.com/rules.html
>  
> David hasn't broken any rules and no, he's older than me Bob.
>  
> I maintain the rules as list owner, that's it.  I've always stated that this 
> list is self moderated.  If you don't like a post that someone has sent out, 
> send them a private message if possible. 
>  
> If you don't like the list and how it's run, anyone is free to step up and 
> take over, including hosting and paying.  Or, it's just easier to delete a 
> message and go about enjoying your day.  Personally, that's what I do.
>  
> Charles
> list owner
> wo...@justfamily.org
>  
>  
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Julia Germany via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> Hi Frank!
> 
> We don't want to lose a valuable, iconic Texas caver from this list. Or any 
> other cavers. Some folks forget these posts are read by cavers who are not  
> in/from Texas. And, who don't know David.
> 
> I have no doubt someone will point out that David's posts say "off-topic," 
> "delete now if you don't want to read it."
> 
> However, I concur that this listserv has a clear intention of being used for 
> the purpose of cave-related posts.
> 
> I know David L posts comments on the various Texas cave-related Face Book 
> pages.
> 
> Perhaps the moderator of this listserv could politely suggest that David post 
> any non-cave related information on these other sites.  And, perhaps, even 
> politely let David know that he might be unsubscribed if he continues to 
> improperly use this listserv.
> 
> julia
> 
> 
> 
> - from julia's cell
> 
> Julia G Germany
> c: 281.979.9208
> e: germa...@aol.com
> 
> > On Jul 8, 2016, at 13:30, Frank Binney via Texascavers 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Many, if not most of us, subscribe to CaveTex to keep up with caving and 
> > caver-related news. A number of cavers I know have, unfortunately, 
> > unsubscribed from the list because of the volume of off-topic spam from 
> > David Locklear.
> > I’m about to join them, as David’s recent return to the list has flooded my 
> > inbox with list-inappropriate posts.
> > Can those of you who like David please counsel him on list etiquette and 
> > suggest more appropriate venues for his off-topic posts?
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Binney
> > NSS 10816 Fellow
> > i...@frankbinney.com
> >
> > ___
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> > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
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>  
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
> information in any medium. Thank you.
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Re: [Texascavers] comments

2016-06-27 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
When I walk through the forest, it's usually the trees that are different that 
stand out to me; the vibrant yellows and the fiery reds highlighted against the 
backdrop of green. All the trees are beautiful and make up the forest, but the 
colorful ones catch my eye and make me happy. Thanks David for your passion and 
making me happy :)

Sincerely,

Scott Cogburn
Greater Houston Grotto
Treasurer 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 8:17 AM, via Texascavers  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m with you, Geary, as well as Jon and Vivian in welcoming David back.
>  
> If the Internet bullies here (and you know who you are, or I could name names 
> if you’re unsure) don’t like his posts, use the freaking delete key!
>  
> It’s so easy!
>  
>  
> Mark Alman
> texascav...@yahoo.com
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Geary Schindel via Texascavers
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 7:43 AM
> To: 'texascavers@texascavers.com'
> Subject: [Texascavers] comments
>  
> I’ve been indisposed for a few weeks but have caught up with some emails.
>  
> Glad to see that David is back posting on Texascaver. It’s been a long dry 
> spell and I enjoy his commentary.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Geary Schindel
>  
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Re: [Texascavers] Airman's River Video

2016-06-14 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Sweet videos! Thanks :)

Scott Cogburn
GHG

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2016, at 6:24 AM, Justin Shaw via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> As most of you know, much of Airman's Cave is once again functioning as an 
> active phreatic conduit. This last occurred in 1992, which I presume is still 
> the record high for the Barton Springs Segment of the EdwardsAquifer. 
> 
> Yesterday Galen Falgout and myself ventured into the aquifer to sample the 
> water, and we shot a few short video clips in the first section of the cave 
> that isn't sumped. They have been posted at these non-public links for 
> viewing by the local caving community:
> 
> Airman's River
> https://youtu.be/cl_5feblyHo
> 
> Airman's Cave with Water
> https://youtu.be/w8IT11p-8PQ
> 
> Crawling down Airman's River
> https://youtu.be/7UHpX8dTZ_0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Leigh Shaw
> 
> Cave Specialist 
> 
> jus...@oztotl.net - personal e-mail
> 
> justin.s...@austintexas.gov - work e-mail
> 
> 512-593-CAVE (2283) - mobile voice & text
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "we need to start using our collective intelligence in a creative, clear and 
> coherent manner" 
>   - John Trudell
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

2016-06-12 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Jerry,

Thanks! I really appreciate your thoughtful response and the information. Some 
of these steps I've been pursuing, but others are good insights that I haven't. 
Sometimes, this issue just really frustrates me. It's good to know that other 
people feel this way, too. However, it's sad to learn that this has been an 
ongoing issue for such a long time. Most everybody that I have met & caved with 
in our grotto and in the Texas caving community so far have been really solid 
people who are enthusiastic about caving and open to helping those around them 
enjoy the sport. I've learned from talking with some of these people though 
that there is an undercurrent of frustration with some of the seeming cliquish 
or closed off nature of cave access sometimes which discourages pursuit of the 
sport. Since I have come to really love caving, I hate to see people get 
discouraged, because of some sort of systemic problem. Anyways...Hopefully, 
with the continued awesome work of organizations like TCMA, etc... and behind 
the scenes work of individual cavers who are talking with landowners, more of 
these Texas caves can be opened up to the Texas caving community at large via 
grotto trips, etc...

Sincerely,

Scott Cogburn
Greater Houston Grotto
Treasurer 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 4:06 AM, Jerry via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> You are not alone; this has been an issue for decades.  To find out about 
> Texas caves in general, I suggest getting the guidebook "The Caves and Karst 
> of Texas" which is available for $15 to TSA and NSS members from the Texas 
> Speleological Survey. Other county-specific publications on Texas caves are 
> available for free download from the TSS website.
> 
> To go caving, you have several options:
> 1.) Participate in TSA, TCMA, and TSS projects which are advertised on the 
> various Facebook pages and the TexasCavers listserve.
> 2.) Get the elder members of your grotto to coordinate more trips for the 
> members
> 3.) Mingle with folks at the TSA Convention and TCR that are involved with 
> caving in areas and caves that you are interested in
> 4.) Directly ask specific cave landowner contacts for a trip.
> 
> You probably will have to get out of your comfort zone a bit to get things 
> moving, but your interest and motivation will win the hearts and minds of 
> your fellow cavers.
> 
> Jerry Atkinson
> Texas Speleological Survey
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott C via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> To: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jun 11, 2016 12:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Very interesting article :) Thanks! Sounds like a cool cave I and others in 
> our grotto would love to explore!
> 
> I might be wrong in this, but it seems like to me there might be a number of 
> these types of cool caves. Caves that were very popular in past years, but 
> for some reason or another, currently, a lot of newer cavers never here about 
> them anymore or don't seem to have access. I completely understand the issue 
> of landowner relations that you brought up in your article. It's just kind of 
> sad to me that more grotto members don't have access or knowledge of a lot of 
> these caves. I really hope that we can move to increase knowledge and access 
> to these awesome caves. I'd love to explore them, and I know a lot of other 
> newer cavers would as well. I mean we regularly here about and plan trips to 
> Robber Baron, Whirlpool, Logan's, Airman's, now O-9 Well, and Deep & Punkin' 
> which are awesome! However, the same small slate of caves kind of get stale 
> after a while. But then Midnight and others are right there in Carta Valley, 
> and the majority of us can't get into them. Only a small group with special 
> access visits them. That also happens with Perry Water Cave, and a number of 
> other caves in Texas. However, when we take our yearly grotto trip up to TAG, 
> even though we're total outsiders, we can get permits and visit tons of 
> outstanding caves! I just wish that here in our home state it didn't feel so 
> restricted, and like some sort of back-channel type of system for individuals 
> or grottos to visit all the terrific caves our state has to offer. Thanks.
> 
> Are you going to be at NSS this year? I'd like to check out your book.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Scott Cogburn
> Greater Houston Grotto
> Treasurer
> 
> 
> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:44 PM, Scott C via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Scott Cog

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

2016-06-11 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Carl,
Very interesting article :) Thanks! Sounds like a cool cave I and others in our 
grotto would love to explore! 
I might be wrong in this, but it seems like to me there might be a number of 
these types of cool caves. Caves that were very popular in past years, but for 
some reason or another, currently, a lot of newer cavers never here about them 
anymore or don't seem to have access. I completely understand the issue of 
landowner relations that you brought up in your article. It's just kind of sad 
to me that more grotto members don't have access or knowledge of a lot of these 
caves. I really hope that we can move to increase knowledge and access to these 
awesome caves. I'd love to explore them, and I know a lot of other newer cavers 
would as well. I mean we regularly here about and plan trips to Robber Baron, 
Whirlpool, Logan's, Airman's, now O-9 Well, and Deep & Punkin' which are 
awesome! However, the same small slate of caves kind of get stale after a 
while. But then Midnight and others are right there in Carta Valley, and the 
majority of us can't get into them. Only a small group with special access 
visits them. That also happens with Perry Water Cave, and a number of other 
caves in Texas. However, when we take our yearly grotto trip up to TAG, even 
though we're total outsiders, we can get permits and visit tons of outstanding 
caves! I just wish that here in our home state it didn't feel so restricted, 
and like some sort of back-channel type of system for individuals or grottos to 
visit all the terrific caves our state has to offer. Thanks.
Are you going to be at NSS this year? I'd like to check out your book. 
Sincerely,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:44 PM, Scott C via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 Carl,
Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
Cheers,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:08 PM, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 

 #yiv3507101535 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv3507101535 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3507101535 
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{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3507101535 div.yiv3507101535WordSection1 
{}#yiv3507101535 Jerry,  I plan to make a motion at tommorrow’s grotto meeting 
to help fund this.  Marvin  From: Texascavers 
[mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jerryatkin via 
Texascavers
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:29 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :  Just 
a reminder that the gate still needs funding.  Jerry.

Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jerry <jerryat...@aol.com>
Date: June 9, 2016 at 3:21:56 AM MDT
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :


Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help
 Powell’s Cave is the second longest cave in Texas, with 26.1 km of surveyed 
passage. Treasure hunters dug the historic entrance open in the early 1900s and 
it is now stabilized with a concrete culvert installed by volunteer cavers in 
the late 1990s. The cave is used as a roost by a large colony of Cave Myotis 
(Myotis velifer). Recently, during a scheduled visit to the cave, it was 
discovered that trespassers had entered the cave and vandalized it, leaving 
cans, bottles, and other miscellaneous trash in the cave. Unfortunately, this 
also included spray-painting graffiti on the cave walls in the Crevice Passage 
(see attached photos).  Concerns about protecting the integrity of the cave as 
well as the vulnerable bat colony (estimated at about 10,000 individuals) have 
led to the decision to install an above ground, bat-friendly, cupola-style 
gate, similar to the one recently built for Ezell’s Cave in Hays County. Jim 
Kennedy of Kennedy Above/Under Ground LLC has been contracted to build the gate 
and it is hoped that it will be completed sometime in the next month or so. As 
part of the agreement with the landowner, cavers will be paying for the labor 
and ancillary costs of the gate construction, while the landowner will pay for 
the materials. This was done to support continuing landowner relations and 
demo

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :

2016-06-11 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Carl,
Thanks so much for the link! I'll check it out :)
Cheers,
Scott CogburnGreater Houston GrottoTreasurer 

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 12:08 PM, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers 
 wrote:
 

 #yiv6121132741 #yiv6121132741 -- _filtered #yiv6121132741 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 
4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6121132741 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 
4 3 2 4;}#yiv6121132741 #yiv6121132741 p.yiv6121132741MsoNormal, #yiv6121132741 
li.yiv6121132741MsoNormal, #yiv6121132741 div.yiv6121132741MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6121132741 h1 
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;}#yiv6121132741 a:link, 
#yiv6121132741 span.yiv6121132741MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6121132741 a:visited, #yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741Heading1Char {color:#2E74B5;}#yiv6121132741 
span.yiv6121132741EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6121132741 
.yiv6121132741MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6121132741 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6121132741 div.yiv6121132741WordSection1 
{}#yiv6121132741 Jerry,  I plan to make a motion at tommorrow’s grotto meeting 
to help fund this.  Marvin  From: Texascavers 
[mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jerryatkin via 
Texascavers
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:29 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :  Just 
a reminder that the gate still needs funding.  Jerry.

Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jerry 
Date: June 9, 2016 at 3:21:56 AM MDT
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help :


Powell’s Cave Gate Project Needs Your Help
 Powell’s Cave is the second longest cave in Texas, with 26.1 km of surveyed 
passage. Treasure hunters dug the historic entrance open in the early 1900s and 
it is now stabilized with a concrete culvert installed by volunteer cavers in 
the late 1990s. The cave is used as a roost by a large colony of Cave Myotis 
(Myotis velifer). Recently, during a scheduled visit to the cave, it was 
discovered that trespassers had entered the cave and vandalized it, leaving 
cans, bottles, and other miscellaneous trash in the cave. Unfortunately, this 
also included spray-painting graffiti on the cave walls in the Crevice Passage 
(see attached photos).  Concerns about protecting the integrity of the cave as 
well as the vulnerable bat colony (estimated at about 10,000 individuals) have 
led to the decision to install an above ground, bat-friendly, cupola-style 
gate, similar to the one recently built for Ezell’s Cave in Hays County. Jim 
Kennedy of Kennedy Above/Under Ground LLC has been contracted to build the gate 
and it is hoped that it will be completed sometime in the next month or so. As 
part of the agreement with the landowner, cavers will be paying for the labor 
and ancillary costs of the gate construction, while the landowner will pay for 
the materials. This was done to support continuing landowner relations and 
demonstrate our commitment to the protection and stewardship of the cave. We 
need to raise approximately $3300 to cover our end of the deal.  If you are 
interested in helping the project, please consider a cash pledge to help in 
alleviating the costs. Powell’s Cave has been an important part of Texas caving 
for more than 50 years, and hopefully will be open to recreational caving and 
research for many years to come. If all goes well, there will be clean up and 
restoration trips in the future that folks can volunteer for. Any and all 
donations of time and money are greatly appreciated. Pledges can be sent to: 
Gerald Atkinson – Powell’s Cave liaisonjerryat...@aol.com If you have any 
questions, please email me. Thanks ! Photos courtesy of Arron Wertheim (May 
2016)





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Re: [Texascavers] Was: Join the NSS and Team 404, Now: Donate $$ and Buy-A-Brick

2016-05-12 Thread Scott C via Texascavers 
Hello,
I usually do not write or respond to posts in this email group, because I 
am relatively new to caving and am still in the learning process. However, as 
this discussion keeps popping up in my inbox, I decided to share my opinion on 
this issue. My goal here is not to lambast anyone or anything, but to share my 
experience that possibly is representative of some others' experiences with the 
intent/hope of positively effecting change. A little background: I have been 
actively caving with the Greater Houston Grotto for about 3 years now. I joined 
our grotto, paying dues the first year after being welcomed and equipped to 
cave by a terrific leadership and community. I began supporting TSA and TCMA 
during the latter part of that first year or my second year? after learning 
about what they do to support caving in Texas. I only joined the NSS this year.
Why so late on NSS membership? For me personally, it was because I could 
see no need nor did I understand the reason(s) to support this national 
organization. If you have been around the caving community for a long time, 
maybe you have had this knowledge or some sense of responsibility towards this 
organization for a long time. As a new person, I did not. Honestly, it took me 
a while before I could even remember what NSS stood for.  Maybe I'm slow(but 
that's a different issue)? 
If the NSS is an entity that should have or deserves our monetary support 
as cavers and it desires relatively new cavers to be a part of that 
organization, then I think there is a communication problem. From my experience 
(& maybe this is isolated, but from the emails I don't think that it is), the 
message of why the NSS is important?, what it does that benefits rank & file 
cavers?, how it impacts caving nationally?, etc... needs to be more effectively 
communicated to new people, like myself. Otherwise, why should I support it? 
Why should they support it? Why should we care? However, if I see & understand 
the importance of something like I did with our local grotto, like I did with 
TSA and TCMA, then, I will put my support behind it. I honestly don't think a 
lot of new cavers are getting this message. 
I'm 47 which means I'm still in a generation which joins things, but their 
are generations following mine that have been shown statistically to not be 
joiners; for whom, actually joining an organization, showing up regularly, and 
supporting it monetarily aren't a priority. You may disagree with that 
mentality, but it's a reality. Look around you at local churches, Shriners, and 
other volunteer organizations, and you will see they are struggling with this 
issue. Rules like, "people can be grotto members and not be an NSS member for 
up to a year. After that, they are expected to join the NSS or stop being a 
grotto member," I don't think really work with my or these generations. I/we 
check out caving because we are interested in exploring caves. We stay, because 
we find it fun & rewarding; both the sport and the relationships we've built. 
We join, because we have a connection to it & to our group, and want to see it 
grow. We don't do any of these things, because we are forced into doing them. 
Our grotto has been steadily growing, due to terrific leadership and caring 
community, and I don't see us just kicking people out after a year, just 
because they aren't NSS members. I'm the treasurer, and I'm not going to report 
my fellow cavers if they don't pay their yearly dues. I don't think rules like 
that will support future growth. So, I think it is that much more important to 
have a clear & engaging communication/education strategy in place, if you want 
their support for now & in the future. 
    I don't like posts that just gripe, but offer no solution. Here is my 
suggestion. Feel free to discard out of hand, write off, modify, or use. Maybe 
there could be work done to get out some materials that are easy to digitally 
distribute and inexpensive like PowerPoint files or something similar that 
grotto leaders could effectively use annually(or more often) during a grotto 
meeting to communicate the importance of the NSS to their new members. A 
presentation which shows how the NSS relates to them, and benefits them locally 
& nationally. A presentation which has some cool video, quality pictures, and 
interesting facts that shows off the work the NSS does all the time. If this 
was easily accessible, engaging, and done on an annual basis at least, I think 
support for the NSS could possibly grow with new members. If this is already 
available and I just don't know about it, I apologize. If that is the case 
though, I would suggest working on promoting and distributing it more, because 
I haven't been exposed to it, as of yet.    Personally, I am glad that I joined 
the NSS, and I am very much looking forward to attending my first NSS 
convention this year in Nevada. I wish the best, both now & in the future, for 
the NSS and