texascavers Digest 22 Nov 2013 21:22:04 -0000 Issue 1888
Topics (messages 23079 through 23088):
November CBSP Project Trip Report
23079 by: Kris Pena
23081 by: Terry Holsinger
RE :Spring Creek & Cave kayaking
23080 by: Patrick Olsen
Re: NSS related
23082 by: Herman Miller
Scheduling the TSA Spring Meeting
23083 by: caverarch
Mars related
23084 by: David
Re: Colorado Bend State Park Project Report for November
23085 by: Logan McNatt
Re: Paradise Canyon Trip
23086 by: Kurt L. Menking
23087 by: Kurt L. Menking
23088 by: Kurt L. Menking
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Project Dates: November 9 - 10
Volunteers: Kris Peña, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill, John Young, Angela Young,
Bryce Smith, Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah Woods, Yvonne Reyes
Total Hours: 73 hrs work time + 46 hrs drive time = 119 volunteer hours
Summary:
In all 10 people split over 3 teams comprised the November Colorado Bend
Project weekend. We had several Project newbies including 4 members from
ASS and John and Angela Young, who have previously caved with Bexar Grotto.
The weather was beautiful with clear days in the 70s and cool nights. Alvis
and Dawn Hill from the Friends of Colorado Bend were kind enough to join us
and take Kris all over the park identifying holes that they’d found in
their work trail building. They’re doing great work out there! Team 2 went
out to re-GPS some caves in Gorman North and dig at the end of Porcupine
Cave. They pushed it past the terminus of the existing map and a future
team will have to be sent out to finish the survey. Team 3 headed out to
Lively to reconcile conflicting data for Crippled Deer Cave and Cow Bone
Cave. Both were located and the data was updated. They were also able to
push a promising lead in Crippled Deer Cave that is not currently on the
map. A new team was formed Sunday morning to attempt to push further. They
made some additional progress, but were stopped by bad air. A team should
be sent at later day to reassess the air and survey if possible.
Full Trip Reports:
Team 1
Names: Kris Peña, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill
Time Out: 1000
Time In: 1700
Total hours: 21 hrs
Objectives: Meet with Alvis and Dawn from the Friends of CBSP and compare
projects; and investigate caves found on previous trail building trips
Report:
Kris drove down from camp to meet up with Alvis and Dawn Hill, two of the
leaders of the Friends of Colorado Bend State Park. They met up with Kelby
Bridwell, park superintendent, and headed out the Spicewood Canyon trail to
investigate a small crack that had been discovered earlier in the year. On
the way, Alvis pointed out a previously unmarked sink on the side of the
trail and Kris recorded the GPS location. Upon arriving at their main
objective, Kris slid down into the tight entrance crack to investigate and
found a very small, but diggable drain at the bottom and A LOT of fire
ants. As she worked her way out the entrance, Alvis and Dawn were kind of
enough to dispatch some of the ants that had decided to hitch a ride. That
cave could use a 1 shot survey and a very small caver to try and push the
lead at the bottom. It is tentatively named Ants in Your Pants Cave.
They then proceeded to check out several caves Alvis and Dawn had noticed
in their trail building work and to compare them with the current GPS data.
Kris was also excited to take a look at one of their in-progress trails.
The team first stopped at a vertical cave. That cave was confirmed to be
SAB 214 (Butch Fralia’s Cave). The GPS showed three caves nearby, so the
team fanned out in search of those and any other holes. They identified SAB
669 (Baby Maze Cave) and SAB 215 (Unnamed Cave), small holes within earshot
of one another. Kris then circled around a few times searching for SAB 678
(Two-Shot Fissure). Once located and corrected in the GPS, Alvis and Kris
took a quick look inside and it lived up to its name.
They then continued on with a short stop at SAB 210 (Fern Pit), an
impressively large pit in an open clearing, and another stop at SAB 285
(Unnamed Cave) a particularly tight fissure crack that bells out after 10
feet, before starting back. They made one more stop at SAB 673 (Guadalupe
Cave) and corrected the GPS location before returning to their vehicles.
None of the caves visited had visible tags, so a future team will need to
be sent out to tag. This area proved to be a beautiful section of the park
and it will be exciting to see the completed trail once the Friends of CBSP
have finished their work. Once their main objectives were finished, Kris
took the Hills over to Sweet Cave for a quick explore before wrapping up a
long day.
Future: Tag all caves visited, survey Ants in Your Pants Cave, check for
maps of all known caves
Team 2
Names: John Young, Angela Young, Bryce Smith
Time Out: 1000
Time In: 1530
Total person hours: 16.5 hrs
Data: Sketch book 3 and Go Pro Videos
Objectives: Locate Porcupine Cave, Elmo’s hole, and Moose Twit. Describe
entrance, mark and sketch entrances. Dig and explore Porcupine Cave
Report:
First cave entered was Porcupine and once inside the Cave, J. Young and
Smith began to dig and move large boulders to allow passage into a new part
of the cave. Once the blockade was moved all members were able to proceed
through three more tight entrances which all three led into their own
rooms. The second to last room had nice active flowstones. The last room
had a small crack with a little water flowing in the bottom. After fully
exploring this room we came to the determination that the cave could no
longer be explored as there were not any more entrances. Cave was marked
with flagging.
There is nothing to report from Elmo’s Hole due to the fact that none of
the team members were able to fit into the entrance. The cave was marked
with flagging and a cairn to allow ease of finding at a later point.
Moose Twit was entered, but nothing much to report on. The cave was only
one room that you climbed approximately 10 ft down into. Cave was marked
with flagging to allow ease of finding for future exploration.
Team 3
Names: Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah Woods, Yvonne Reyes
Time Out: 1000
TIme in: 1700
Hours: 28 hrs
Data: In the red book in pouch number 4
Objectives: Check Crippled Deer and Cow Bone Cave to verify the accuracy
of the map and its GPS coordinates
Report:
We drove toward the GPS coordinates and it turned out to be outside the
park. So we searched the corner for an hour without success. After
regrouping we followed the GPS for the second cave which was labeled Cow
Bone to find out, it was Crippled Deer coordinates. In the map, it just
appears as a hole, but it had a very promising lead. We completely geared
up and I went in. On my second try I was able to pass the tight passage,
losing my pants on the way. I had to go head first in this small pit and do
a change to my feet on a very difficult move. All of this with almost no
pants! After arriving down, it opened up to a very big room although
crawling size. After exploring I found a big pit, probably 15 - 20 ft. I
need to have rope to drop it, because it had a bell shape. On the other
side it connected to a big well, which was my way out by chimney and ended
up on another tight spot. So in conclusion, the map was pretty off and the
real deal! After lunch, Westin (GPS master) directed us to the next cave by
total luck. We didn’t have GPS coordinates, but after that we saw another
flag near we thought we should give it a check and on the way we found Cow
Bone Cave. This cave was just a pit at first, a 4 m deep. We down climbed
and on the far end there was a small opening. When you stick your head, it
is clearly a promising lead. It opens up, the only thing it needs is
digging. After that we walked around for a while looking for new stuff just
finding old marked caves.
Future: Survey Crippled Deer and drop the pit. In Cow Bone dig the
promising lead.
Team 4 (Sunday)
Names: Fernando Hernandez (writer), Angela Young, John Young
Time Out: 1100
Time In: 1330
Hours: 7.5 hrs
Date collected: Pictures were taking. (Angela and John have them; they are
going to post them and pass them on to the project)
Objectives: Try to see if the uncharted pit in “Cripple Deer Cave” in
Lively area leads to more rooms.
Report:
We arrived to the cave and John and Angela checked the tight squeeze. John
was unable to pass, so he tried the other entrance without success. Angela
dropped into the second entrance. This entrance is tight also due to a rock
that protrudes and makes it a weird move to do. After that you chimney down
20 feet onto a crawly breakdown room. I joined her through the other
squeeze that leads to the same room. This time without loosing my pants
luckily for me. After we met on the room, we explored a little without
recognizing possible leads due to mud. We then proceed to the pit. We saw
that it was possible to free climb so I went first. The free climb has good
foot holds even though it is kind of a bell shape. The first lead on the
pit leads to a big room with a accumulation of mud in the shape of a poop.
Above it is a crack that leads .5m up without recognizable lead. It seems
that without the mud it can stretch a little bit more. After that, I
descend further on the pit by chimney, but very abruptly the air became
really bad. After couple of going up to the ledge to get some air, and
going down, I notice a crack on one side of the pit that seems that leads
somewhere. The crack is probably possible for thin persons. I really wanted
to try to go, but with the bad air it was just silly. I went up. Angela
also try it, but was stopped by the bad air also. We proceed to go up.
After analyzing John mention that either it could be bad air, or toxic air
of some dead animal or organic matter decomposing that released it gases
and since they are more dense than air, became settled at the bottom of the
pit.
Future: It will be awesome to try to descend again when winter hits a
little bit more. So the air can get heavier and descend into the pit, make
it safe and push the crack on the bottom of the pit. Also survey of the
uncharted area of the cave.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Kris for the trip report.
Re Crippled Deer Cave Map, we were never satisfied with that map as it
does not match the detailed description we have for that cave, we just
never got anyone to go back out to that part of the park to do a remap.
From the CBP files:
"CRIPPLED DEER CAVE San Saba County (SAB 201)
State of Texas (Parks & Wildlife Department)
Length: 80' Depth: 55'
History: February 13, 1988: The cave was discovered during the monthly
TSA volunteer work project. That month a monumental ridgewalk was
executed in the Lively Pasture and 25 caves including this one were
located.
Description: The two entrances to this cave are situated in an area of
exposed karst in a wooded field. The southern entrance is a 2 foot by 10
foot chimney which drops about 10 feet. At the bottom, a crawlway trends
due north toward a second entrance but is impassable. A second fissure
passage trends west but is also impassable. The second entrance is
located about 15 feet due north of the first entrance. The second
entrance leads to a chimney-able crevice about 2 feet wide dropping
about 20 feet to a small room. Two passages each about 40 feet in
length, lead off this room. The passage to the south leads towards the
first entrance. Some formations a nd a dome about 10 feet high are found
in this passage. A room 15 feet by 20 feet with a 2 foot high ceiling
leads off to one side of the entry room. An estimated 35 foot deep pit
drops from this room but was not entered. Air quality readings taken
about 6 feet into the top of this pit indicated oxygen levels of 13.2%.
A stream passage can be seen at the bottom of the pit and may be a
continuation of the cave. Air quality readings in the rest of the cave
were no worse than 20% oxygen content during t his trip to the cave in
November 1988. From the entry room, the other 40 foot long passage may
be traversed for about 5 feet before becoming to tight. (Alvis Hill,
11/88)."
Also in those files we have at least two sets of sketches/survey notes
for Fern Pit that were never drafted, both were done by first timers as
survey practice.
Also survey/sketch of 214 BFC, but I seem to remember a map made of that
one "recently" but may be mistaken as I can not find one.
The tight entrance to Elmo's Hole has defeated all but about 6 people IICRC.
Terry H.
On 11/21/2013 2:20 PM, Kris Pena wrote:
Project Dates: November 9 - 10
Volunteers: Kris Pe�a, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill, John Young, Angela Young,
Bryce Smith, Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah Woods, Yvonne Reyes
Total Hours: 73 hrs work time + 46 hrs drive time = 119 volunteer hours
Summary:
In all 10 people split over 3 teams comprised the November Colorado Bend
Project weekend. We had several Project newbies including 4 members from
ASS and John and Angela Young, who have previously caved with Bexar Grotto.
The weather was beautiful with clear days in the 70s and cool nights. Alvis
and Dawn Hill from the Friends of Colorado Bend were kind enough to join us
and take Kris all over the park identifying holes that they�d found in
their work trail building. They�re doing great work out there! Team 2 went
out to re-GPS some caves in Gorman North and dig at the end of Porcupine
Cave. They pushed it past the terminus of the existing map and a future
team will have to be sent out to finish the survey. Team 3 headed out to
Lively to reconcile conflicting data for Crippled Deer Cave and Cow Bone
Cave. Both were located and the data was updated. They were also able to
push a promising lead in Crippled Deer Cave that is not currently on the
map. A new team was formed Sunday morning to attempt to push further. They
made some additional progress, but were stopped by bad air. A team should
be sent at later day to reassess the air and survey if possible.
Full Trip Reports:....................cut................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also have an inflatable tandem kayak - and a little inflatable raft.
If I can come, I would be happy to share these as well.
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy [mailto:nan...@prismnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:26 AM
To: speleoste...@aol.com
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Cave kayaking
Back in the heyday of the honey creek project I took my hard shell perception
kayak into the spring entrance paddling thru formations and their crystalline
reflections to the first sump. It was a heavenly experience
I highly recommend taking Bill up on his offer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I really like the idea but Facebook has a much easier method of signing up
and it does not require a specific email. Compounding google+ is that I
have a @cavechat.org email address which is a disquised gmail account
though google+ is not allowed with my email addy.
On Thursday, November 21, 2013, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I subtly hinted at this a month ago, but the NSS Google+ Page is now 2
years old. It was born near Arcola, Texas on November 11th, 2011.
>
> It would work better if more U.S. cavers subsribed to it, especially the
"Community" page, where cavers can interact without much mediation.
>
> Any organized group of people, such as a Grotto, should experiment with a
Google+ page, to see if it fits their agenda. It is easy, if you use Gmail.
>
> David Locklear
> First page-manager ( retired ) of the NSS Google+ Page
> NSS # 27639
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to Tom Summers and Cave Without a Name we have a proven place to hold
the 2014 Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association. But to move
forward with planning we need to set a date for the convention. Tom wants to
block out Spring Break for Texas schools since this is a very busy period for
the Cave. Spring Break can vary over a few weeks between the state's many
districts, so if you know the dates in your area please e-mail them privately
to me and I can see how much time needs to be blacked out of consideration for
the convention.
Similarly, please notify me privately of the dates for ongoing cave projects or
other special caving events that will take place during the Spring months. Once
I receive this information I should be able to find a weekend that is viable
for CWAN and the TSA officers and membership. Thank you.
P.S. Now is the time to begin thinking about the talk you want to give or the
map or photo you want to enter in the salon. Mallory Mayeux will again be the
speaker wrangler for this year's convention, so you can contact her with your
proposed paper abstracts AFTER the date for the convention is set.
Roger Moore
TSA Vice Chair
cavera...@aol.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is almost vaguely caving related if you consider that the Mars
rover Curiosity, is
ridgewalking over virgin rocky terrain.
The rover has been on the planet 446 days now. I do not believe it
is a kilometer
from the landing site, but is pretty close to passing that in the next
few drives. It
has had to do a whole lot of zig-zagging to get to the current waypoint.
I think it is safe to say that a human would have covered far more
terrain in 446
days, especially if he was on a dirt-bike, or even a mountain-bike.
Even better
a small animal wearing a pressurized suit and a helmet cam.
Any future caver on Mars will likely find plenty of building material
to make a nice
stone house. In my opinion, the first astronaut needs to be a good
stone-mason,
so he can set up the hut for future explorers.
Supposedly, the rover will be camped out at this rock for the next few days:
http://www.spaceflight101.com/uploads/6/4/0/6/6406961/8446456_orig.jpg
Click on that photo to enlarge it.
Check out those odd circles in the rocks to the left.
It seems obvious to me that an erosional process took place here that took
millions of years, and is most likely common throughout the universe.
But there are
millions of people that are convinced these rocks magically formed in
a few seconds about
328,500 days ago in an event they refer to as Day 4. It would seem
such an act
that amazing would be celebrated in some festival, but they don't see
it that way, or
can even agree on exactly how many days ago it was. They feel their omnipotent
creator did this on a whim, and interpret it as, backed by solid
science. I am not saying
that he or she did not do it, but only that it took millions of years,
for the rocks to erode,
and another billion years for the Martian surface to solidify, and
another 20 billions years for the cosmic elements to form a spherical
shape, and another 100 zillion years for the cosmic
elements to bounce around our galaxy, and that they will do this all
again in another
cosmic event billions of years from now, and that that process will go
on for an infinite
number of cosmic events, and that we are no where near the beginning
of that space-time
equation, and certainly not 328,500 days into it.
On a related note,
the current news story about the Martian meteorite found in the
Sahara Desert lacks credibility. I do not believe
it could have escaped the gravitational pull of the planet in the manner which
they are proposing. The Locklear Theory is that it came off of
Deimos, and that
explains the shape of Deimos.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Deimos-MRO.jpg
David Locklear
overly-opinionated guy, but less grumpy now that I am single
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kris, thanks for sending the trip report to the list. You described fire ants (Ants in the Pants Cave); very small, tight entrances, cracks,
crevices, and passages; and bad air. Yet y'all were able to relocate several caves, update GPS locations, check out several in-cave leads, and
even dig open/push some leads into virgin cave. Colorado Bend SP caves are not easy, and I'm impressed with what was accomplished. Also good
that you have feedback from one of the long-time project leaders, Terry Holtzinger. Thanks to everyone involved, keep up the good work, and I'm
looking forward to your next trip report.
Logan
Project Dates: November 9 - 10
Volunteers: Kris Pe�a, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill, John Young, Angela Young, Bryce
Smith, Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah Woods, Yvonne Reyes
Total Hours: 73 hrs work time + 46 hrs drive time = 119 volunteer hours
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.
Saturday & Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be provided. Saturday
evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring
your own plate, utensils and cups. Anyone interested in coming this weekend or
even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head count
and can make arrangements to get you in the gates.
It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and
or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB or drink of choice.
We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday. Please call
for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving before that time.
See you folks this weekend.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and
claim one the others are available. Come on out.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, "Kurt L. Menking"
<kmenk...@bcad.org<mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org>> wrote:
I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.
Saturday & Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be provided. Saturday
evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring
your own plate, utensils and cups. Anyone interested in coming this weekend or
even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head count
and can make arrangements to get you in the gates.
It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and
or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB or drink of choice.
We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday. Please call
for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving before that time.
See you folks this weekend.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you intend to use a cabin bring your own sheets and towels.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:40 AM, "Kurt L. Menking"
<kmenk...@bcad.org<mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org>> wrote:
The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and
claim one the others are available. Come on out.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, "Kurt L. Menking"
<kmenk...@bcad.org<mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org>> wrote:
I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.
Saturday & Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be provided. Saturday
evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring
your own plate, utensils and cups. Anyone interested in coming this weekend or
even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head count
and can make arrangements to get you in the gates.
It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and
or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB or drink of choice.
We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday. Please call
for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving before that time.
See you folks this weekend.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
