texascavers Digest 24 Nov 2013 21:39:44 -0000 Issue 1889
Topics (messages 23089 through 23103):
sinkhole related
23089 by: David
Re: Paradise Canyon Trip
23090 by: mark gee
23092 by: Logan McNatt
Re: Colorado Bend State Park Project Report for November
23091 by: mark gee
TCMA Election Underway
23093 by: R D Milhollin
Cave rescue
23094 by: Bill Steele
23095 by: Bill Steele
23098 by: PRESTON FORSYTHE
Government Canyon caving
23096 by: Marvin and Lisa
23097 by: Jim Kennedy
23099 by: Chris Vreeland
Re: Government Canyon Trip Report
23100 by: Logan McNatt
23102 by: Gill Edigar
texas caver september
23101 by: Jill Orr
Re: Cave Rescue Saturday Night -- PRIVATE
23103 by: Geary Schindel
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Check out how excited people in Houston get when a sinkhole opens up here.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/sinkhole-causing-problems-in-west-houston/-/1735978/23107834/-/qi4gr0z/-/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yall have fun! Find the big one up on that cliff side.
On , Kurt L. Menking <kmenk...@bcad.org> wrote:
If you intend to use a cabin bring your own sheets and towels.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:40 AM, "Kurt L. Menking" <kmenk...@bcad.org> wrote:
>The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and
>claim one the others are available. Come on out.
>
>
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, "Kurt L. Menking" <kmenk...@bcad.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people.
>>Saturday & Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be provided. Saturday
>>evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring
>>your own plate, utensils and cups. Anyone interested in coming this weekend
>>or even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head
>>count and can make arrangements to get you in the gates.
>>
>>
>>It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and
>>or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB or drink of
>>choice.
>>
>>
>>We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday. Please call
>>for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving before that
>>time.
>>
>>
>>See you folks this weekend.
>>Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hopefully by now Kurt has shown them The Caves of Medina County, TSS publication III (1), edited by James Reddell and published in 1967, where
Orion Knox and Barbara Madden reported brief descriptions of Paradise Canyon Shelter No. 1 and No 2. They found them while on a picnic at
Paradise Canyon, July 4, 1961! There is also reference to a very interesting lead reported by a hydrogeologist in 1956.
On 11/22/2013 6:11 PM, mark gee wrote:
Yall have fun! Find the big one up on that cliff side.
On , Kurt L. Menking <kmenk...@bcad.org> wrote:
If you intend to use a cabin bring your own sheets and towels.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2013, at 9:40 AM, "Kurt L. Menking" <kmenk...@bcad.org
<mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org>> wrote:
The owner opened up all 6 cabins for our use. Each one has 3 beds. Kitty and
claim one the others are available. Come on out.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:01 PM, "Kurt L. Menking" <kmenk...@bcad.org
<mailto:kmenk...@bcad.org>> wrote:
I've had a few cancellations so I have space for about 6 additional people. Saturday & Sunday morning tacos and or pancakes will be
provided. Saturday evening is okra, chicken and shrimp gumbo with rice. Please remember to bring your own plate, utensils and cups. Anyone
interested in coming this weekend or even the weekend after Thanksgiving please let me know so I have a head count and can make arrangements
to get you in the gates.
It would also be a big help if everyone could bring a few snacks to share and or a dessert for Saturday night dinner. Otherwise it is BYOB
or drink of choice.
We most likely will not be able to arrive before 8 pm on Friday. Please call for gate code and instructions for camping if you are arriving
before that time.
See you folks this weekend.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good job Kris, past CBSP caver.
On Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:59 PM, Logan McNatt <lmcn...@austin.rr.com>
wrote:
Kris, thanks for sending the trip report to the list. You described fire ants
(Ants in the Pants Cave); very small, tight entrances, cracks, crevices, and
passages; and bad air. Yet y'all were able to relocate several caves, update
GPS locations, check out several in-cave leads, and even dig open/push some
leads into virgin cave. Colorado Bend SP caves are not easy, and I'm impressed
with what was accomplished. Also good that you have feedback from one of the
long-time project leaders, Terry Holtzinger. Thanks to everyone involved, keep
up the good work, and I'm looking forward to your next trip report.
Logan
Project Dates: November 9 - 10 Volunteers: Kris Peña, Alvis Hill, Dawn Hill,
John Young, Angela Young, Bryce Smith, Fernando Hernandez, Westin Green, Leah
Woods, Yvonne ReyesTotal Hours: 73 hrs work time + 46 hrs drive time = 119
volunteer hours
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The annual election for Texas Cave Management Association Directors is
presently underway. All current TCMA members are encouraged to participate in
choosing the leaders who will guide our cave conservancy for the next several
years as we continue to improve and expand the inventory of Texas caves owned
and managed by Texas cavers. Voting will end 5:00 PM on November 30. If you are
a TCMA member and have not received an electronic ballot via your e-mail
address please contact Ron Ralph (ronra...@austin.rr.com) and he will work to
get you on the voter roll. A quick thanks to the candidates who have stepped
forward to offer their time and efforts to further the mission of TCMA.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rescue going right now at Binkley's Cave, Indiana. Fifty year-old man had a
heart attack while caving in a wetsuit cave.
Sent from my iPhone
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.whas11.com/news/Caver-dies-after-suffering-medical-incident-in-Corydon-Ind-cave-233184591.html
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2013, at 6:49 PM, Bill Steele <speleoste...@aol.com> wrote:
> Rescue going right now at Binkley's Cave, Indiana. Fifty year-old man had a
> heart attack while caving in a wetsuit cave.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The caver died after going in the Blowing Cave entrance of Binkley. He was part
of a group doing a sump dive over two miles from the entrance. It was an
apparent heart attack. He may have been from Chicago.
One of the Indiana volunteers working on the new NSS offices here at Huntsville
received several phone calls on the incident.
Preston Forsythe at Huntsville
________________________________
From: Bill Steele <speleoste...@aol.com>
To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave rescue
http://www.whas11.com/news/Caver-dies-after-suffering-medical-incident-in-Corydon-Ind-cave-233184591.html
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2013, at 6:49 PM, Bill Steele <speleoste...@aol.com> wrote:
Rescue going right now at Binkley's Cave, Indiana. Fifty year-old man had a
heart attack while caving in a wetsuit cave.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All right. I give up. All those great Colorado Bend project reports make me
realize I've got to do the same thing.
We had two teams at Government Canyon on November 10.
I led Rick Corbell, Christin Miller, Sierra Ostrov, and Petra Ostrov to Big
Dome Cave to continue the survey. We concentrated our efforts in the
entrance room and surveyed 44.14 meters in 12 stations. We tried to follow
the perimeter of the room as closely as possible but on the east side the
rising floor comes too close to the ceiling and the furthest extents of the
room cannot be verified. We also surveyed into two small rooms at the
southeast corner that have interesting solution features in the bedrock
floor. While Christin and I were giving Petra and Sierra a tour of the lower
part of the cave, Rick removed a rock at the northwest corner of the
entrance room to gain access to another small, low, dirt-floored room. In
the entrance area we still need to survey the new room that Rick found and
survey out the second entrance to the cave. Significantly, the cave length
is now 258.15 meters, making Big Dome cave officially the longest cave in
Government Canyon SNA. The cave that was knocked from the top spot is
Dancing Rattler Cave at 225.24 meters.
The second team was made up of Christopher Francke, Leslie Bell, Tom Rogers,
and Jill Orr. They took the long hike to the top of the hill loaded down
with rope, vertical gear, hammer drill, batteries, hammer, chisel, etc. to
continue pushing the lead in the bottom of Lost Pothole. They were
successful in getting into Rebecca's Pit, but, against all expectations,
there was no going cave or leads of any kind at the bottom. It was a blind
pit. So where does all the air come from? Everyone was so focused on the pit
that no one had noticed that the airflow was coming from the solution
channel that crosses over the pit and continues on the other side. After
finding that the bottom of the pit had no leads, the team confirmed that,
indeed, the air was coming from the channel at the top. The opinion of the
team was that the channel was too small for an indefinite length and that
continuing to try to follow it by micro-blasting or hammering was not
feasible. We will do a survey trip to survey Rebecca's Pit, since it is
likely the lowest point in the deepest cave on the SNA. Otherwise the cave
will be considered finished.
The next Government Canyon Karst Project trip will be on December 7 & 8 and
will continue the first weekend of the month until further notice.
Marvin Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yay! Trip reports on CaveTex! It sure beats the alternatives!
Mobile email from my iPhone
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 11:02 PM, "Marvin and Lisa" <mlmil...@gvtc.com> wrote:
>
> All right. I give up. All those great Colorado Bend project reports make me
> realize I've got to do the same thing.
>
> We had two teams at Government Canyon on November 10.
>
> I led Rick Corbell, Christin Miller, Sierra Ostrov, and Petra Ostrov to Big
> Dome Cave to continue the survey. We concentrated our efforts in the entrance
> room and surveyed 44.14 meters in 12 stations. We tried to follow the
> perimeter of the room as closely as possible but on the east side the rising
> floor comes too close to the ceiling and the furthest extents of the room
> cannot be verified. We also surveyed into two small rooms at the southeast
> corner that have interesting solution features in the bedrock floor. While
> Christin and I were giving Petra and Sierra a tour of the lower part of the
> cave, Rick removed a rock at the northwest corner of the entrance room to
> gain access to another small, low, dirt-floored room. In the entrance area we
> still need to survey the new room that Rick found and survey out the second
> entrance to the cave. Significantly, the cave length is now 258.15 meters,
> making Big Dome cave officially the longest cave in Government Canyon SNA.
> The cave that was knocked from the top spot is Dancing Rattler Cave at 225.24
> meters.
>
> The second team was made up of Christopher Francke, Leslie Bell, Tom Rogers,
> and Jill Orr. They took the long hike to the top of the hill loaded down with
> rope, vertical gear, hammer drill, batteries, hammer, chisel, etc. to
> continue pushing the lead in the bottom of Lost Pothole. They were successful
> in getting into Rebecca’s Pit, but, against all expectations, there was no
> going cave or leads of any kind at the bottom. It was a blind pit. So where
> does all the air come from? Everyone was so focused on the pit that no one
> had noticed that the airflow was coming from the solution channel that
> crosses over the pit and continues on the other side. After finding that the
> bottom of the pit had no leads, the team confirmed that, indeed, the air was
> coming from the channel at the top. The opinion of the team was that the
> channel was too small for an indefinite length and that continuing to try to
> follow it by micro-blasting or hammering was not feasible. We will do a
> survey trip to survey Rebecca’s Pit, since it is likely the lowest point in
> the deepest cave on the SNA. Otherwise the cave will be considered finished.
>
> The next Government Canyon Karst Project trip will be on December 7 & 8 and
> will continue the first weekend of the month until further notice.
>
> Marvin Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dang, I was on the digging trip when Rebecca first squeezed through to peer
down that pit -- I had such high hopes for that lead & had such a great time
caving with her that day. This report closes a chapter on a favorite personal
piece of caving history. Lost Pothole is a great cave. Still. I remember
discovering that lead on the first survey trip with Andy Grubbs and Geoff Hoese
so many years ago now -- it had burned a hole in my brain since then. In my
fevered imagination, we'd break through into going stream passage some day.
Maybe I can use a photo trip as an excuse to go back one last time.
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 11:02 PM, "Marvin and Lisa" <mlmil...@gvtc.com> wrote:
>
> After finding that the bottom of the pit had no leads, the team confirmed
> that, indeed, the air was coming from the channel at the top. The opinion of
> the team was that the channel was too small for an indefinite length and that
> continuing to try to follow it by micro-blasting or hammering was not
> feasible. We will do a survey trip to survey Rebecca’s Pit, since it is
> likely the lowest point in the deepest cave on the SNA. Otherwise the cave
> will be considered finished.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin wrote: All right. I give up. All those great Colorado Bend project
reports make me realize I've got to do the same thing.
Marvin, thanks for the trip report. The Government Canyon Project seems destined to go on forever, like the Colorado Bend Project, thanks to
all the dedicated volunteers.
Logan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, and we need to see that someone on the trip sends Jill photos to go
along with the Trip Reports for the TC.
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Logan McNatt <lmcn...@austin.rr.com>wrote:
> Marvin wrote: All right. I give up. All those great Colorado Bend
> project reports make me realize I've got to do the same thing.
>
> Marvin, thanks for the trip report. The Government Canyon Project seems
> destined to go on forever, like the Colorado Bend Project, thanks to all
> the dedicated volunteers.
>
> Logan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you already know, because of the printer error there were about 25 issues
of the September Texas Caver that did not get labeled or sent to me. I'm
sorry for the delay - and am finally able to get around to sending them.
Below is a list of cavers for whom I do NOT have a labeled September issue.
Since some were passed out at the TCR before I discovered the problem, I am
not confident who got their issue and who did not.
Please contact me OFF LINE if you did NOT get your issue and you ARE ON this
list. Issues will only be sent to those who l hear from.
I want to make only one trip to the post office (actually it requires two),
so let me know by next SUNDAY latest. Thank you for your patience.
PS - The December issue needs articles and photos (only have two).
Anderson Bruce
Arburn Don & Jenni
Atkinson Gerald
Bell Bill
Berkeley-Jones Catherine
Beveridge Aimee
Burnett Rune (Robert)
Byrd Tom
Cobb Allan
Corbell Rick
Ediger Gill
Ellis Val
Fambro Paul
Graves Lee Jay
Harris Michael
Hooper Jocie
Jorden Jay
Kennedy Jim
Krejca Jean "Creature"
Kunath Carl
Lee Bennett
Maloy Kim
McClung Dave
McClure J. Katherine
McWhirter Michael
Menking Kurt
Olsaver Gary
Quast William
Rogers Thomas
Saker Rachel
Schindel Geary
Schumacher Wesley
Smith Preston
Vreeland Chris
Wessel Roy
Yglesias Joseph
Zappitello Matthew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fyi.
Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T
Hi everyone,
Below is a good summary of how things went down last night. While we mourn the
loss of Tim McLain, we should celebrate his life, which was undeniably a life
well-lived. And it was, in my opinion, one of the NSS's finest moments.
I arrived at the cave about 10:45pm last night, and was on the litter party for
the final 1000 feet of the recovery of Tim from the cave. And though Tim was
gone at that point, we made a point of continuing to talk to him and treat him
with the greatest level of respect. One member of the litter party actually
laid face-down in a breakdown pocket, using his body as a ramp to facilitate
the litter up and over a snag.
The cave was Blowing Hole Cave, part of the larger Binkley's Cave System in
Indiana, which also includes the newly-opened Indiana Caverns. Here is a video
which basically shows most-all of the route where the recovery took place.
Every one of the cavers you see in this first video was a major contributor to
the rescue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWU1yDkbe7w
Most of us, considering the obstacles (most notably the waterfall), thought the
recovery wouldn't finish until mid-day on Sunday. Tim was out of the cave by
4:15am. It was an extremely efficient and well-coordinated effort.
Here's Bill Greenwald's account, and if you have any questions, just drop me a
line.
-Dean
========
Concerning the cave rescue down in Corydon last night in Binkley Blowing Hole
Cave. Mainly to update those that couldn't make it down and to thank those that
did.
I got the initial call about 5:45 from Don Paquette to pull out the list and
get cavers on stand-by up here. By 6pm it was an actual Rescue. CIG had
10-12cavers on the way down by 7:30pm. They asked for strong wet suit cavers.
Unfortunately it turned into a body recovery.
As of 2am it was confirmed that it was Tim McLain and that he died from what
appeared to be either a heart attack or some other catastrophic cardiovascular
event. Ironically, Tim was also the patient in the YouTube video “Caver Saver
2011” that was done in Eversole Cave.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKLyLZiF8E
I got the call that his body was out of the cave and that they were standing
all the cavers down as of 5am this morning from Don Paquette.
It was also interesting that it was a Chicago caver that Tim was with in the
cave. Adam Haydock had emailed me about him coming down to dive a sump in the
Binkley Cave system as he wanted to visit Eversole on Sunday. Adam was the one
that gave Tim the CPR and came out of the cave and called in a rescue.
There might be a little in the News but they had enough people and the recover
went better than predicted. The media doesn't like to dwell on body recoveries.
Tim was one of Indiana's best cavers and a great guy he will be missed by lot
of people. Suspect the services will be in Spencer IN.
“Please include Tim and all the cavers that helped in your Prayers this
morning”. Have a Good Thanksgiving.
Bill Greenwald
--- End Message ---
