texascavers Digest 3 Apr 2014 03:23:36 -0000 Issue 1957
Topics (messages 23645 through 23658):
drones
23645 by: Mixon Bill
23647 by: Louise Power
Re: Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
23646 by: Don Arburn
23648 by: Lotus
23649 by: Albach
23650 by: Pete Lindsley
23651 by: Greg Passmore
23652 by: Gary Moss
legally flying drones
23653 by: Mixon Bill
Re: Rolling Oaks Preserve Work Day THANKS!
23654 by: ellie watson
UT Grotto Meeting April 2nd
23655 by: Andrea Croskrey
Paper deadline approaching: International Workshop on Ice Caves
23656 by: George Veni
Austin area housing
23657 by: Terry Holsinger
Karst Field Studies Course Announcement Summer 2014
23658 by: George Veni
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--- Begin Message ---
That company that sells gizmos in the malls, I forget the name, has a
drone quadracopter including a video camera that sells for $199, I
think. You control it from an iPad or iPhone. No doubt limited range
and endurance, but cheap enough to try out. Problem in a cave would be
lighting for the camera, I imagine. That would also apply to more
expensive versions of the same sort of thing; at best an added light
would reduce the endurance.
--Mixon
----------------------------------------
If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The other problem I see right off the bat is not having sufficient control to
keep from running into delicate formations. On the plus side is having the
ability to see if hard-to-navigate new passages go anywhere.
--Louise
> From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:23:38 -0500
> Subject: [Texascavers] drones
>
> That company that sells gizmos in the malls, I forget the name, has a
> drone quadracopter including a video camera that sells for $199, I
> think. You control it from an iPad or iPhone. No doubt limited range
> and endurance, but cheap enough to try out. Problem in a cave would be
> lighting for the camera, I imagine. That would also apply to more
> expensive versions of the same sort of thing; at best an added light
> would reduce the endurance.
> --Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try it.
Sent cellularly.
-Don
> On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Stefan Creaser <stefan.crea...@arm.com> wrote:
>
> It is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission ;-)
>
> From: Arburn Don [mailto:donarb...@me.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 10:49 AM
> To: TSA Cavers
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
>
> I keep waiting for someone to ask permission to do this in Punkin
>
> On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with a Go-Pro video
> camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms?
>
> I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone with four electric engines,
> around 16 inches in diameter, 12 minute flight time, costs around $450. The
> camera is another $400 or so. A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost
> about $900.
>
> In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded with this stuff.
> The store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High School where the NSS
> sessions will be during the July convention.
>
>
> The latest Outside magazine sparked this interest.
>
>
>
> Preston in Browder, KY
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
> Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590
> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
> Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is harder to take bullets out of your drone (or lose it altogether) than to
ask for permission.
Lotus
stonerculture.com
---------
All correspondence is betwixt solely the two parties directly involved. Any
undue recipient has the task of returning this e-mail to its rightful owners;
either the sender or intended recipient. Failure to represent yourself in a
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hundred head of cattle, or equivalent trade value, per message.
On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Stefan Creaser wrote:
> It is easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission ;-)
>
> From: Arburn Don [mailto:donarb...@me.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 10:49 AM
> To: TSA Cavers
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave Entrance Photography with a Drone
>
> I keep waiting for someone to ask permission to do this in Punkin
>
> On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:33 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with a Go-Pro video
> camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms?
>
> I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone with four electric engines,
> around 16 inches in diameter, 12 minute flight time, costs around $450. The
> camera is another $400 or so. A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost
> about $900.
>
> In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded with this stuff.
> The store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High School where the NSS
> sessions will be during the July convention.
>
>
> The latest Outside magazine sparked this interest.
>
>
>
> Preston in Browder, KY
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
> Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590
> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
> Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Might not be legal in Texas...
http://www.texasmonthly.com/daily-post/texass-drone-law-pretty-much-opposite-every-other-states-drone-law
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-02/privacy-and-drones
-Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Preston, my son Steve has looked into doing this and has at least one
quadcopter with a GoPro on it that he has footage from flying topside. He is
working on a visual reality version with goggles that lets you have a view from
the flying copter, but so far is not happy enough with the performance (range)
to trust it in a cave. You would need extra battery capability to provide LED
lighting, and his current Ver. 1 GoPro doesn't have sufficient light
sensitivity to do the job in a dark cave. Sure, the off-the-shelf units can
work fine if line-of-sight above ground. My Ver 2 GoPro has slightly better
light sensitivity, but the $400 GoPro3+ might just do the job. It is slightly
lighter than the earlier versions and they claim is more sensitive.
So, before you go buy a copter and a camera, look for someone that already
flies a quadcopter and talk them into helping.
- Pete
On Mar 31, 2014, at 9:33 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote:
Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with a Go-Pro video
camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms?
I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone with four electric engines,
around 16 inches in diameter, 12 minute flight time, costs around $450. The
camera is another $400 or so. A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost
about $900.
In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded with this stuff. The
store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High School where the NSS
sessions will be during the July convention.
The latest Outside magazine sparked this interest.
Preston in Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have done a lot of drone videography for cave films. The big issue is wind
and hidden obstructions. Big entrances tend to have all sorts of funky drafts
and flying a drone, not matter how experienced, can be tricky in drafty
environments. Also, as the drone gets more distant from the operator, it is
hard to see tiny dangers (like vines). As a final note, we have had experience
with a motor shutting down due to high moisture. When that happens the entire
thing goes into a fatal spin. One of my goals is to light a huge room and film
from above, but the landing and orientation lights are bright enough to cause
some unwanted tint.
If anyone wants to team up and play, I am happy to bring mine out. I have a 6
rotor unit with an optically stabilized UHD video capture system. We are also
acquiring an oversized 8 channel unit for use with our RED Scarlet since
shooting at 200 fps is very helpful for those epic shots.
Note: big drones can slice up caves, just like they can slice up drone
operators. Fly safe and soft. A camera on a stick or below a balloon is a
heck of a lot safer (and cheaper) than a drone.
Greg
www.passmorelab.com
P.S. Thanks Logan McNatt for pointing out this thread.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Preston:
There are two types of drones, tethered and non-tethered drones, a radio
controlled one would be a non-tethered drone. The FAA regulations
are different for tethered and non-tethered drones. As I understand
that recent FAA regulations tethered drones may be lawful now and
non-tethered drones seem to still have issues. The nice thing about
the tethered ones are some are designed for 24/7 operations. One
use could be wildlife management. For inspection I have seen a
small one using only 2 props where the props are protected in case you
bump against something. I think the tethered one are more
expensive.
I do not know much about the various State laws, but generally there are
there types of uses. Government/Military, Commercial and hobby
use. Most of the laws are aimed at the Commercial use. The
hobbyists use has been legal for years. There is one case I was
told of at a conference where a hobbyists flew his drone all over parts
of the world and posted his videos. He post a video of a flight
over a collage campus in Washington State and posted it on his
site. Still legal. However the collage wanted the video and
he sold it to them. Now he switch from hobbyists to Commercial and
the FAA is now filling legal action against him.
My guess is that you will be hobby use. Can not help you much with
what to get, but good luck with your research.
Gary Moss
At 11:33 AM 3/31/2014, Preston Forsythe wrote:

Has anyone out there used radio controlled model drones with
a Go-Pro video camera to photograph big pits and/or big cave rooms?
I have looked into this a little and a Quad-drone
with four electric engines, around 16 inches in diameter, 12
minute flight time, costs around $450. The camera is another $400 or so.
A Quad-drone with a 30 minute flight time cost about $900.
In Huntsville, AL there is a RC Hobby store that is loaded
with this stuff. The store is on Meridian St., 1/2 mile north of Lee High
School where the NSS sessions will be during the July convention.
The latest Outside magazine sparked this
interest.
Preston in Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For whatever it's worth, I doubt if the FAA has any authority over the
airspace in caves. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
Huge thanks to the 11 volunteers who came out this weekend for the work day
on the Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) Rolling Oaks cave preserve
in Northwest San Antonio. Volunteers sorted trash and continued the massive
effort of excavating Niche Cave.
Volunteers began the day by sifting out trash from the debris removed from
Niche Cave on a former trip. Volunteers then began digging in the cave and,
as rocks crashed down around them, quickly realized the area was unstable
and we would have to rethink the dig. We then decided to clear the entire
area beginning at the surface and leading down a steep slope to the
entrance of the cave. We removed several large rocks and had to knock a few
massive ones into the caves with the idea that we will bring a tractor out
in the future. In the end, volunteers cleared over 1 ton of rocks and large
boulders from the sloping surface around Niche Cave entrance. Niche Cave
still has a lead that is totally filled with boulders and the cave will
give us many more trips of digging fun. Stay tuned for another trip in the
fall!
Thanks to: Ron Ralph, Galen Falgout, Joe Schaertl, Vickie DeLeon, Arron
Wertheim, David Oualline, Veronica Esqueda, Don Arburn, Steve Gutting and
David the neighbor kid.
We ended the day at 2pm and several cavers visited the other small caves on
the preserve.
Photos from 3.29.14
https://www.flickr.com/photos/67526340@N08/sets/72157643260434365/
Thank you for your support of TCMA and cave management,
Ellie Watson
Rolling Oaks Preserve Manager
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--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Texas Cavers!
Don't be fooled! There's a grotto meeting this Wednesday and Bill Mixon
will be sharing information about the Association for Mexican Cave Studies,
http://www.amcs-pubs.org/. See you there!
We will now be meeting at 7:45pm in *Burdine 136*. Follow this link to a
map of where the building is located on the University of Texas campus:
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/bur.html
For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org
Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for
happy hour specials. Attendance by cavers varies but this area is the best
place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the
official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene
for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com
Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair
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--- Begin Message ---
Dear Friends,
The deadline for papers and abstracts for the 6th International Workshop on Ice
Caves (IWIC-VI) is 14 April 2014 and rapidly approaching! The conference will
focus on all aspects of study involving caves with ice deposits and caves
formed in ice, including paleoclimatology, cave microclimates, hydrology and
crystallography, modern and paleo fauna, among other topics. You may submit
abstracts, extended abstracts, or full papers. We encourage longer submissions
for you to better share your knowledge and information. All accepted
submissions will be published in the proceedings volume that will be available
at the conference.
IWIC-VI will be held in Idaho Falls, Idaho, USA, from 17-22 August 2014.
Details about IWIC-VI, submitting papers/abstracts, and registration (both
on-line and mail-in forms) are available at http://www.iwic-vi.org/.
Here are some important details to know:
* IWIC registration traditionally includes the cost of meals to
maximize the time everyone is learning, working, and playing together. IWIC-VI
includes all lunches and dinners, and if you stay at the conference hotel your
breakfast is included with your room fee.
* The registration prices increase on 3 May 2014, so register now!
* Again, the deadline for all papers and abstracts is 14 April 2014. We
look forward to seeing your papers soon.
IWIC-VI is hosted by the US National Cave and Karst Research Institute, with
generous cooperation from members of the US National Speleological Society, and
is a conference series of the International Union of Speleology's Commission on
Glacier, Firn, and Ice Caves.
If you have any questions, please let me know. Also, please share this message
with anyone who may be interested.
George
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org<mailto:gv...@nckri.org>
www.nckri.org<http://www.nckri.org>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all you (South) Austin/San Marcos caver types, I have an (employed)
friend looking for a place (house preferred) to rent. If yu have one or
know of one drop me a line and I'll pass along the info.
Terry H.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Friends,
It is that time of year again when I'm happy to forward information on the
continuing series of cave and karst courses offered through the Summer Karst
Field Studies program at Western Kentucky University. Since 1979, these courses
have been taught by leading experts and have been well attended by students,
cavers, and many professionals including national and state park employees,
environmental managers and consultants, hydrologists, show cave personnel, and
many more. See the announcement below for more information on this summer's
courses, and feel free to share this message with anyone you think may be
interested.
George
------------------------------------------------
Greetings,
The Department of Geography and Geology at Western Kentucky University and its
partners encourage you to participate in the summer 2014 Karst Field Studies
Program at and near Mammoth Cave National Park. Tentative courses this summer
will include:
- Karst Geology, June 1-7, Dr. Art Palmer
- Exploration of the Mammoth Cave Area, June 8-14, Dr. Stanley Sides
- Cave Survey and Cartography, June 15-21, Dr. Pat Kambesis, with assistance
from Mr. Howard Kalnitz
Take a class for fun as non-credit workshops OR courses may also be taken for
graduate, undergraduate, or continuing education credit.
For more information about the program, courses, how to register, and
instructors, please visit karstfieldstudies.com. But hurry, the deadline to
reserve you spot is approaching fast...Friday, May 9. Space is limited.
If you have any questions please contact the Karst Field Studies Director, Dr.
Leslie North, at leslie.no...@wku.edu<mailto:leslie.no...@wku.edu>.
Please forward this message to your friends, students, staff, and/or
colleagues. We need your help to spread the word far and wide!
"Like" us on Facebook at Karst Field Studies (WKU/Mammoth Cave).
Hope to see you this summer!
Dr. Leslie A. North
Department of Geography and Geology
Western Kentucky University
1906 College Heights Blvd., EST 436
Bowling Green, KY 42101
(270) 745-5982
leslie.no...@wku.edu<mailto:leslie.no...@wku.edu>
********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org<mailto:gv...@nckri.org>
www.nckri.org<http://www.nckri.org>
--- End Message ---
