[tw] End User Application Development - IP Protection?
I've been playing around with TW and I have some ideas for niche applications. However I need to learn js to tie pieces together. Given my relative naivete with html/js, my question is how to protect the content? Can an app or app functions of a TW be compiled? Are there other ways to encrypt html/js source code? If there aren't, then I suppose I won't try. Any advice or references would be appreciated. Thanks, SteveM --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: How do I display a long tiddler at the top?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:15 AM, bwallum r...@btconnect.com wrote: Hi I'm trying to open a long list of tiddlers from a table. I can do this but it displays at the bottom of the list. How can I set the table to display at the top of the list please? I don't quite follow. I think you're saying that you have a table in one tiddler with links to other tiddlers, and you're clicking links to open those other tiddlers... and what problem are you having...? -- Daniel Baird I've tried going to the XHTML bar / a few times, but it's always closed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Given my relative naivete with html/js, my question is how to protect the content? Can an app or app functions of a TW be compiled? Are there other ways to encrypt html/js source code? If there aren't, then I suppose I won't try. There are ways to compress/obfuscate JavaScript code - but it remains interpreted code[1], so it's as opaque as compiling to object/binary code. You might want to ask yourself whether this protection is really necessary though. I won't go on a Free/Open-Source Software rant here, but the problem you're trying to address is likely not a problem at all. TiddlyWiki itself, and your intent to build something on top of it, demonstrate that there's immense value in providing access to the source code, allowing others to reuse and refine your product. There are countless other examples of this, and more and more people (and companies) are beginning to realize that. -- F. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreted_language [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscated_code --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:01 AM, SteveM sbma...@comcast.net wrote: I've been playing around with TW and I have some ideas for niche applications. However I need to learn js to tie pieces together. Given my relative naivete with html/js, my question is how to protect the content? Can an app or app functions of a TW be compiled? Are there other ways to encrypt html/js source code? If there aren't, then I suppose I won't try. Any advice or references would be appreciated. As I understand it, you can obfuscate your JavaScript but not really encrypt. I guess you could do the important parts of your algorithms on a server somewhere and just supply the results, but that would break the single-file, go-anywhere nature of TW, which seems to impede adoption. Who are you protecting your code from? Are you planning on selling your work? ;Daniel -- Daniel Baird I've tried going to the XHTML bar / a few times, but it's always closed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Up-to-date instructions on how in install TagglyTagging available?
Whilst trying a nice plugin from FND today I noticed that all my MPTW Plugins where quite outdated. As I've probably added them to my (d3)TW at 2.1 version times I thought to make it propper and removed all MPTW Plugins first. Well the only reason I've got MPTW stuff installed is that I really like Simone's TagglyTagging [1] feature. It's a great way to organise references, cheat sheets, tiddlysnips and what have you. Now the problem is that now that I got rid of all the old MPTW stuff I wanted to do a clean TagglyTagging installation with only the MPTW dependencies which are really necessary. Unfortunately the installation instructions on [1] are outdated. Are there any up-to- date instructions available? Thanks, HeX [1] http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#TagglyTagging --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Given my relative naivete with html/js, my question is how to protect the content? Can an app or app functions of a TW be compiled? Are there other ways to encrypt html/js source code? Keep in mind that TW was built as an open source project, and the ability to create a 'closed source' version was not a consideration in the design of the TW architecture. It *might* be possible to deliver a TW in a completely 'closed' fashion, but it is certainly not a trivial prospect, and is also not likely to achieve 100% masking of all internal HTML and JS code. Nonetheless, here's some thoughts on what might be needed to make the attempt: Applications that present dedicated HTML content sometimes do this by combining a standard application framework with an embeddable browser library to create a compiled stand-alone application that also contains the compressed/encoded HTML and JS code content. This content is then rendered within the embedded browser... which usually does *not* include commands to view the source code (i.e., no viewpage source command), and almost certainly doesn't support use of 3rd-party JS debugging tools (like FireBug or Jash). Of course, you would also have to block user-level access to any 'systemConfig' (plugin) tiddlers within the TW document, so that the source definitions of those tiddlers can't be viewed either. However... given that TiddlyWiki itself can be used as a JS programming environment, it may still be possible to view some of the source code, which is always available in decoded form from *within* the TW simply by examining the 'innerHTML' property of the 'document.body' DOM element... and there are undoubtedly many *other* ways to probe the source using JS from with TW, so the chances that you can close up all the 'holes' and make the code completely inaccessible is virtually nil. Sorry I can't offer a more hopeful outlook... still, if you want to give it a try (and are successful), it could turn TW into a very nice RAD (Rapid Application Development) tool. enjoy, -e Eric Shulman TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
To Both, Thanks for your replies. I understand what you are saying. You look at TW as a labor of love. And I really appreciate the great work that Jeremy and all of the plug-in developers have done. My take on it is more pragmatic. Apps get developed when there's money in it. It seems like a tension exists in the open-source community because profit is made to be a bad thing. But it's your ball of wax so I sincerely respect your opinion. Here's what I'm getting at specifically. I have targeted a training app for a specific domain. I think I can TW their training modules. The value to the customer would be a visually and navigationally superior product (relative to PowerPoint). So my customer would sell that value prop to their customers. I would sell them TW design services for each course they produce. Easy enough. However if I give them a TW course with everything exposed, I essentially give them a template that they could run with or farm out to another consultant. So they could use me - only once. I'd stand a big risk of losing downstream development with that scenario. Given that risk, I would not do the first one at all. There's a general philosophical issue embedded here. I looked at Moodle early last year and was really impressed with the product. There are maybe 500 plugins. Probably more than half are dead altogether and another 20% have to be cleaned up. So that plugin library contains perhaps 400 orphans because there is no incentive ($) for developers to repair/upgrade what are fundamentally good ideas. So Moodle is free, but in many respects dysfunctional because of it. That's open source. Great ideas with no incentive for discipline so products remain in the sandbox. Comments? Steve On Jan 10, 9:20 am, Daniel Baird danielba...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:01 AM, SteveM sbma...@comcast.net wrote: I've been playing around with TW and I have some ideas for niche applications. However I need to learn js to tie pieces together. Given my relative naivete with html/js, my question is how to protect the content? Can an app or app functions of a TW be compiled? Are there other ways to encrypt html/js source code? If there aren't, then I suppose I won't try. Any advice or references would be appreciated. As I understand it, you can obfuscate your JavaScript but not really encrypt. I guess you could do the important parts of your algorithms on a server somewhere and just supply the results, but that would break the single-file, go-anywhere nature of TW, which seems to impede adoption. Who are you protecting your code from? Are you planning on selling your work? ;Daniel -- Daniel Baird I've tried going to the XHTML bar / a few times, but it's always closed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
You look at TW as a labor of love. [...] Apps get developed when there's money in it. It seems like a tension exists in the open-source community because profit is made to be a bad thing. That's not correct. While there are some people in the FOSS community who regard making money as inherently evil, that doesn't apply to everyone, and it's certainly not true for most people in the TiddlyWiki community. I was actually taking a very pragmatic rather than an ideological view in my previous post. There are certainly scenarios where publishing the source code does not make sense for the developers (ESR explains such cases in CatB[1]) - it's just that people often tend to be overprotective, insisting on closed source when open source would actually be more effective/efficient (FWIW, my boss has published some thoughts and observations on this issue[2]). the solution may be to focus on social engineering instead of software engineering Seconded; as mentioned before, you seem to be focusing on the wrong issue. -- F. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar [2] http://tinyurl.com/5jzxjg (http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/10/21/learning-about-why-people-dont-adopt-opensource/) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: How do I display a long tiddler at the top?
Thanks for the response. It's probably best explained by showing you the problem. The TW is at http://www.ettrickvillagehall.org/CommunitySurvey2008.html If you select Results Part One from the MainMenu you are presented with a table of topics, each topic has a link which gathers together all the tiddlers by tag, using OpenTaggedTiddlers, which relate to the topic. When the selected tiddlers are displayed, I get the list as expected but the list is left with the 'display' at the bottom of the viewer panel. I would like the list to be displayed as is but with the 'viewer' window to be at the top of the viewer panel. That is, the user then starts at the top of the tiddler list, not the bottom as present. I hope that makes sense, I'm still a novice at this stuff. Thanks again Bob On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 00:06 +1000, Daniel Baird wrote: On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:15 AM, bwallum r...@btconnect.com wrote: Hi I'm trying to open a long list of tiddlers from a table. I can do this but it displays at the bottom of the list. How can I set the table to display at the top of the list please? I don't quite follow. I think you're saying that you have a table in one tiddler with links to other tiddlers, and you're clicking links to open those other tiddlers... and what problem are you having...? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
I think that what others have suggested is that they understand that it would lead to a healthier and longer lasting relationship with your customer if you sell him (and charge accordingly) the template and the freedom to use the template however they want (that would probably include buying customization and enhancement services from the person that knows more about that template), than if you sell them a black box. Obviously, you know your business environment better than the rest of us, but I think that is a suggestion worth some consideration. Honestly, I did not see no demonizing or anti-business attitude. -Xavier On Jan 10, 4:59 pm, SteveM sbma...@comcast.net wrote: Re: Social engineering. Well you guys are demonizing me for what appears to be a pretty legitimate question and line of inquiry. Why is that? I have great relationships with my clients. And I don't assign a large ethical component to app development. Wanting to protect the time and effort invested in product development seems to be a pretty benign objective. I mean if I develop a VBA app for Excel for a customer, I compile it into an Add-In to protect my IP. VBA is essentially open source in that it's bundled into Excel. Am I socially mis-engineered for not giving the customer the source code? So you guys kind of lost me. It's just business... Steve P.S. I don't want to mix it up. Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. On Jan 10, 10:48 am, FND f...@gmx.net wrote: You look at TW as a labor of love. [...] Apps get developed when there's money in it. It seems like a tension exists in the open-source community because profit is made to be a bad thing. That's not correct. While there are some people in the FOSS community who regard making money as inherently evil, that doesn't apply to everyone, and it's certainly not true for most people in the TiddlyWiki community. I was actually taking a very pragmatic rather than an ideological view in my previous post. There are certainly scenarios where publishing the source code does not make sense for the developers (ESR explains such cases in CatB[1]) - it's just that people often tend to be overprotective, insisting on closed source when open source would actually be more effective/efficient (FWIW, my boss has published some thoughts and observations on this issue[2]). the solution may be to focus on social engineering instead of software engineering Seconded; as mentioned before, you seem to be focusing on the wrong issue. -- F. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar [2]http://tinyurl.com/5jzxjg (http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/10/21/learning-about-why-people-do...) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Re: Social engineering. Well you guys are demonizing me for what appears to be a pretty legitimate question and line of inquiry. I did not mean to imply that there's anything 'demonic' about either you or your question... there is, however, a distinctly different economic model for open-source, and I am suggesting is that perhaps the issue of customer retention in the open-source world can be best addressed through non-technical means. I've been an independent, freelance consultant for more than 10 years, and have never needed to 'close' my deliverables. In fact, although the deliverables are almost always specified in the contract, my clients pay for my expertise, design skills, time and effort in creating those deliverables, not for the code itself: I bill by the hour, not the byte. In any case, unless otherwise stated in my contract with the client, the deliverables belong to them under most typical work-for-hire laws, and they are entitled to do whatever they want with them. So, how do I manage to retain these clients if they can just 'walk away' with the end product? With few exceptions, my clients return to me for additional work year after year because of the working relationship I have established with them, as well as my design and development skills... rather than simply because I am holding their source code hostage. Wanting to protect the time and effort invested in product development seems to be a pretty benign objective. Yes, it is. But, as I suggested above, the best means to protect that time and effort is probably *not* by trying to turn open-source *code* into a closed-source deliverable, but rather by developing an effective open-source *relationship* with the client. P.S. I don't want to mix it up. Appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Indeed. While philosophical views can be very closely held and argued with great conviction, please don't take any of this as a personal issue. The question of IP protection in an open-source eco-system *is* legitimate and interesting, both from a technical and social standpoint, and while I don't concur with your objective (i.e., creating a 'closed source' version of TW), my initial response to your question was to suggest some *technical* avenues to explore (though I don't think they will be sufficient for your purposes). enjoy, -e Eric Shulman TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
If you wish to exploit others efforts for your own personal gain then that is a matter for your conscience. We all do that. I use Firefox for my own personal gain. And, while at work, lots of other open source software for my own financial gain. Pretending that open source derived software is all your intellectual property disgusts me, to put it mildly. I don't know Steve's plan, but he did not say that he plans to claim that, or fail to give credit (probably license terms would make that illegal) -Xavier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Lastly, and this time I mean it... I agree conceptually with the open source paradigm. But software has a way of migrating pretty easily into the torrent-o-sphere regardless of the intent of the original owner. I dunno, I have to think about that one... I am a radical pragmatist and open source is not really working for Moodle. It just bumps along the bottom even though the installed base is now really large. So how to fix that? (Like it or not, it would probably involve somebody making money but the open source model prevents that.) I agree totally on the need for good client relationship management. If the TW apps I'm envisioning were for one off problems I'd buy into the service-centric consulting model fully. But with training, it could be a matter of swapping content in and out of a TW architecture. Yeah, Xavier's idea of licensing the template may be a good solution. The VBA open source analogy was not clear. I guess I meant something like using built-in functions or open source functions I download from the web are analogous to TW plugins. I.e., somebody else's work. I don't feel constrained to compile because of that. Steve On Jan 10, 11:40 am, FND f...@gmx.net wrote: you guys are demonizing me for what appears to be a pretty legitimate question and line of inquiry. I think there's a misunderstanding here; yours is indeed a legitimate question, and we're really not trying to demonize or attack you in any way. Since your original idea of hiding the source code turns out to be largely infeasible (as explained in our original posts), we're offering alternative perspectives that might enable you to go through with your plan to create a TiddlyWiki-based application. So we're not being fanatical, trying to force you to open-source your work - it merely seems that it's impossible to entirely hide the code in the environment TiddlyWiki works in. In fact, TiddlyWiki's using the BSD license precisely because it allows a large degree of freedom and flexibility in terms of modifying and redistributing the code* - that includes reuse for commercial purposes. Nevertheless, I apologize if that came across as offensive. VBA is essentially open source in that it's bundled into Excel. I'm afraid that's not what open source means. -- F. *http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/TiddlyWiki_License --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
It was probably this bit that was the clue... I mean if I develop a VBA app for Excel for a customer, I compile it into an Add-In to protect my IP. A different technology and different commercial perspective with rights to exploit I agree, but I suggest open source comes from a different mindset, in fact you could say it originated because of the close minded commercial exploitation that constrained co-operative software development. I'm not anti-business, I have my own, but I don't like the idea of disguising open source software for anything other than that. Here's a good way of dealing with it:- http://www.osmosoft.com/bt/ You don't need to hide it, BT is the biggest provider of telecom services in the UK. You might like to ask Osmosoft's founder if there is still money and good business in it. He gave us TiddlyWiki! Bob On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 08:47 -0800, Xavier Vergés wrote: If you wish to exploit others efforts for your own personal gain then that is a matter for your conscience. We all do that. I use Firefox for my own personal gain. And, while at work, lots of other open source software for my own financial gain. Pretending that open source derived software is all your intellectual property disgusts me, to put it mildly. I don't know Steve's plan, but he did not say that he plans to claim that, or fail to give credit (probably license terms would make that illegal) -Xavier --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
probably involve somebody making money but the open source model prevents that. The open source model doesn't prevent 'making money'... it just separates the 'value proposition' from the deliverables... you get paid for the value of your expertise, skills, and efforts, rather than for the pattern of bits that remain when you are done. ... and it is possible to make an income from open-source code: for example, I currently have a contract to provide TW consulting for a startup venture that is developing a product that will incorporate TW in an open-source manner, yet still be able to charge for the added value provided by the commercial app and related online subscription services. -e --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: TW on the Palm?
On Jan 9, 11:45 pm, Jon jevis...@noctrl.edu wrote: ...Now if they'll just put it on a PDA that's not a @#$%*! phone! I agree --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Stop Me Before I Reply Again! Eric, your insights match the creativity of your work. Back to radical pragmatism. Moodle is a great product. And the Plugin library is extensive and broken. Someone could swoop in and validate what works, repair what is broken and augment as needed. But no one is doing that. Because there is no incentive. Each plugin is represents a development island. Many are deserted because the original developer abandoned them. So there sit 400+ half baked cakes. The separation between what is and what could be is huge but there is no incentive mechanism to close it. I know TW is not Moodle. But you could even use TW (lack of) documentation as an example. Somebody could write a documentation book of TW and the plugin libraries. But then he would want to sell the book! For money! Pristine bob would be apoplectic! But I'm thinking there has to an incentive based win-win somewhere in this development environment apart from altruism and the need to stand in awe on the shoulders of giants. (Even Jeremy found that those motives don't pay the tax guy.) Best, Steve On Jan 10, 12:18 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote: probably involve somebody making money but the open source model prevents that. The open source model doesn't prevent 'making money'... it just separates the 'value proposition' from the deliverables... you get paid for the value of your expertise, skills, and efforts, rather than for the pattern of bits that remain when you are done. ... and it is possible to make an income from open-source code: for example, I currently have a contract to provide TW consulting for a startup venture that is developing a product that will incorporate TW in an open-source manner, yet still be able to charge for the added value provided by the commercial app and related online subscription services. -e --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
Steve, you seem to be somewhat unclear about open source and its implications (which I don't blame you for, because it's not something to be taken for granted - though that's slowly changing). It's really worth learning about FOSS - both from an intellectual and from an economic perspective. The Cathedral and the Bazaar* might be a good start, as well as the blog post I'd mentioned before. (Please take this as nothing more than a friendly recommendation.) The separation between what is and what could be is huge but there is no incentive mechanism to close it. [...] I'm thinking there has to an incentive based win-win somewhere in this development environment apart from altruism and the need to stand in awe on the shoulders of giants. But isn't that exactly where there's a chance to make a living with and because of FOSS? Open source doesn't necessarily mean there's some magical community out there that does all the work for you. Somebody could write a documentation book [...] But then he would want to sell the book! For money! As implied earlier, that's perfect valid, even welcome (e.g. there are countless books on Linux, Apache, Python and other FOSS projects - and there's also been talk of TiddlyWiki books in the past). Pristine bob would be apoplectic! I think the thing with Bob was a misunderstanding. -- F. * http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: TW on the Palm?
...Now if they'll just put it on a PDA that's not a @#$%*! phone! --Jon I also agree. I miss the PDA devices, and so far I have not been able to get my old ones to sync with Linux which limits their functionality for me. I also don't want one that is on an expensive phone. I use a Tracfone because it is a more economical solution that just makes sense for me. Because of the way I have structured my life and work, I really only need a cell phone for an occasional convenience or it is handy for emergencies. I don't need it to keep track of my life. A nice PDA for $100-$150 would be perfect, without cell phone contracts, different provider than what I use or that has terrible coverage in my area. This used to be possible by buying one generation after the latest and greatest Palm. mowestusa --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: End User Application Development - IP Protection?
SteveM. Re: you increase exposure to risk in not taking a risk so it might be worth taking the risk - It could well be a Abbot and Costello line, but the Mr Adams who gives the law in question it name is Denis Adams, an ex-stats academic and cybernetics enthusiast. Apparently it is systemic (and statistically verifiable) fact that not taking risk is risk itself... something about the illusion of thinking you are not taking a risk being born out of lack of a model of the future ... or something like that (it makes me feel TagglyTagged just thinking about it) I wonder what opportunities will open up when jQuery code are easy enough for non software TwFans to use? I've been looking at some them in anticipation. Their community is much bigger and documentation is better resourced. While I have been spend too much time being bewildered by javascript thanks to TW, jQuery makes a lot more sense. The code uses accesses css class selectors, so for example, a list of check boxes in a form can be converted to a slider by just giving them a class and telling the slider to got and do its business with them. So there's more of an opportunity cost (risk) if I developed something in TW but could not capture revenue from it. Because I'd have to set aside the quant stuff. Cut and paste some resource from your development budget to incorporate some TW action. As an outward looking function, disclosing some of your core skills to the TW community (or 'week ties'[1]) will result in some new business contacts and some new ideas. The way the TW (and jQuery) communities are organized seem to me to be under the radar of the organization and innovation literature. The people seems so happy! Alex [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Granovetter I see what you are saying about a TiddlyStyle. I've been thinking about that too. Take for example Monkey Tiddly and Eric's plug-ins for themes, navigation, sliders, etc. Well their mods to the Shadow Tiddlers sometimes crash into each other. But there may be value in a mashup rather than in selecting a single design paradigm. That's the js tweak work that I think may be required to develop a slick end user app. I'm sure other guys have thought of this already. But I think a new avenue of creative work lies in leveraging the great plug in libraries synergistically. Or something like that... Steve On Jan 10, 2:42 pm, Alex Hough r.a.ho...@googlemail.com wrote: SteveM It would be interesting to hear about your niche applications. Developing one 'TiddlyStyle' might give some insight into some innovative business practice. The Fractal Organization [1] mentions Adams law which states something to the effect that there you increase exposure to risk in not taking a risk so it might be worth taking the risk in disclosing your idea(s). Alex [1]http://tinyurl.com/9wruht -- t: 0161 442 2202 m: 0781 372 50 17 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
