[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Josiah,
 

> Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion (the 
> fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept the 
> example even though you know nothing :-). 
>

When one is not around, they're not around. ;-) 

My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
> beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
> could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
> Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate to 
> fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.
>

I don't think leverage is what you're after but rather *traction*, traction 
and *support* for a very explicit *project*. Now, one might argue that 
e-pubs can be a significant project to help push TiddlyWiki out onto the 
big stage more (and thus create some more leverage to do bigger proects ;-) 
but... and of course you agree, this place is a terrible forum to try and 
manage the ambitions of a TiddlyWiki e-pub project.

At least, such a thing would require a propper project context. For me, atm 
that would be a github repo, since you can address all the nitty gritty 
detail from functional to technical specification all the way to voting and 
implementation and actuall code and all that ...in a defined spot. But it 
takes for a lead developer (architect) to take on the job not only to 
understand the code-base, but to kind of manage the overall process, so 
people stay realistic of how to get from start to finish. If you want an 
even more "engaging" experience than a github repo can deliver, well, I 
don't know... you're trying to give life to a highly complex social 
experiment with a desired outcome... that's never quite a simply thing to 
pull of, no matter what the environment. Without some professional 
organisation, there's a good chance a bunch of freelance, self-made coders 
and idea-generators will find it hard to form unity, but it's possible as 
we all know. OpenSource is a thing, it's alive and it's kicking... but 
everyone doing it also knows its problems... the most prominent one being 
that that guy didn't show up for half a year: So what's that about? ;-)

Best wishes,

Tobias. 

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[tw] Re: Does anyone have a strategy for automatically reloading TW when the underlying file changes?

[jwd]

I switched to the node.js version for just this reason. My single, 
standalone HTML versions got too big and I began experiencing a lot of 
problems merging the changes I'd made in separate tiddlers that git's 
diff-ing did not readily identify. I began doing a lot of manual editing of 
what was effectively TiddlyWiki internals. The tiddlywiki --server - 
tidders as separate files concept - instantly solved those, and several 
other problems. Tiddler files are much more amenable to the use case I 
share with you "TiddlyWiki on multiple machines, and in order to 
synchronize changes between them..." I rely on git.

Since I've switched to the node.js version I've begun taking another simple 
but dumb approach: when I have a tiddler that I want to share between 
tiddlywiki servers I simply create a symbolic link in one to the master 
version of that tiddler in the other. My TiddlyWiki's are beginning to get 
a lot more intertwined as a result. (I just need to remember to restart the 
servers when I merge changes.) 

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Re: [tw] Re: Calling all TiddlyWiki users

[jwd]

Mind if I chime in?

I've had a StackOverflow account for five years. Finding answers to 
questions on StackExchange sites has become so second nature to me that I 
was surprised by Josiah's questions and comments and the little follow-on 
discussion this proposal has had. Maybe I've forgotten how StackExchange 
seemed in the beginning. If you are not familiar with the many communities 
  I suggest you take the tour 
 which may help explain the concept in 
general.

I find the various StackExchange communities that I participate in akin to 
the TiddlyWiki community here - generally people seem to eager to help and 
are forthcoming with useful suggestions. One difference, I think, is that 
the good answers to questions tend to get voted up to the top. People who 
ask a question that already has a good (set of) answers will get pointed to 
that. Rather than the many problems with the Google Group that Josiah has 
eloquently identified.

When I use StackExchange sites I also get a lot of useful information from 
the comments that the community makes about questions and answers over 
time. So answers that used to be good but have been superseded over time 
will frequently get a comment highlighting a better answer.

The whole reputation thing can be, I imagine, a little off-putting. Don't 
let it throw you. You gain some reputation just by participating - I earned 
some by simply editing one of my proposed questions to improve the wording. 
On StackOverflow proper I have earned most of my reputation points from one 
(1) good answer that a lot of people have come across and it solved their 
problem. To learn more about reputation see 
http://stackoverflow.com/help/whats-reputation

But StackExchange reputation is *not* why I participate in those 
communities. I participate and use the privileges I've earned (I'm up to 
editor) because the StackExchange communities have improved my life, making 
it easier to find answers that are curated by the people who really know 
something about the technology, whatever that is. By participating I feel 
like I'm giving a little of that back. So when a Google search leads me to 
a StackExchange community vetted answer I'll up vote that question and that 
answer; and maybe spend a few extra minutes doing some of my editor review 
duties.

So I urge participants in this Google Group to join the proposed TiddlyWiki  
Q&A group .  
As the proposed group tag line says at this phase of its development "We 
want to find the best example questions." I don't think the proposed 
StackExchange TiddlyWiki Q&A site would replace this Google Group; but one 
could go a long way toward answering well the questions that seem to come 
up here frequently in a way that can evolve as TiddlyWiki does.

-- 
Jonathan

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

[Josiah]

Ciao Tobias
 

> 1 - VERY difficult to gain leverage
>

> And what would you want or need leverage for? I like the humble nature of 
how this project unfolds.

Me too.

But humbleness per se isn't the leverage issue I meant. 

What I meant was that because of the way GG works its hard IF, like me, 
you'd like to see pattern. And having seen pattern, and felt into it, 
engage with it.

To make this concrete...

Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion (the 
fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept the 
example even though you know nothing :-). 

My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate to 
fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.

SO. My answer to you is: Leverage is good. Here is not good for it.

J.

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

[Josiah]

Ciao Dmitry

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 02:08:56 UTC+1, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
>
> Josiah, I know just one way of removing any scepticism. It's experiment 
> and practice.
> Here is the method of measuring "findability" of any topic on LikeInMind: 
> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/102426340/Findability%20Experiment
>

I find it incomprehensible. WTF does "The task is finding the Findability 
Modes 
 
page on LikeInMind . Total 
time of finding this particular page is measured." mean?
 

> "FYI, there are NO companies (corporations) HERE." - that's fine! I am 
> looking for a way of realising the P2PCI platform as soon as possible. 
>

Good.
 

> As soon as a map of intents and preferences is collected, we should be 
> able to decide what namely way to go.
>

Collected by whom? For what?
 

> Josiah, sorry for misreading your previous statements. Would you elaborate 
> more of your understanding and ideas on forums vs knowledge networks vs 
> personal memories. That was probably the topic I missed something critical.
>

The only thing I really thought important was grasping that Google Groups 
is inadequate because it lacks basic tagging. It lacks decent searching. It 
loses its own history rapidly. 

My analysis was NEGATIVE, not positive. I know what is NOT here that would 
help it if it were. I am less concerned about exact solutions. 

Right now there are TWO initiatives in play. One for Reddit. One for 
StackOverflow. IMO, either, either as additives or alternatives to here, 
would help practically improve things.
 


LiM is as messy as a human mind. What I know about my mind, for example, 
> that it can pull ideas from apparently nowhere, from the noise and mess of 
> my random associations and thoughts.
>

That is not yet a description of a system. That is what we all cognitively 
do, one way or another, all the time.

The point you are getting at, I think, is more about LIMINAL knowing. That 
is not so frequent. It is absolutely true that liminality---knowing at the 
edge---is not well addressed on most of the internet. 

New concept formation is a complex interaction between extant social, 
shared categories and emergent felt-knowing.

Articulateness, by definition, will be constrained by shared public 
language and categories. Its a push to change that. Especially when you 
don't yet quite know yourself what you are trying to say.



Your appeal to LiM is an appeal to engage with it, to help it. What I 
looked at is pretty unappealing to me at the moment. 

I think MY problem with it is it TOO REFRACTORY to my aims. Too much 
effort, for what?



Your talk of "mental states" I find confusing. 

I have a "mental state" as I write this. Once its on the net its "published 
words". 

The potential mapping between first person self-articulation and published 
words is, of course, a legitimate playground. But, as far as I can see, it 
leads nowhere without a FORMAT to engage through.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: Filter using toc?

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Seven,

Just announced 
 
the release of tobibeer/toc .

Best wishes,

Tobias.

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[tw] TW5: NEW plugin: tobibeer/toc - a filter to fetch titles in a table of contents

[Tobias Beer]

Hi everyone,

To pick up where I left it 
,
 
I now published the initial version 0.5.0 
 of tobibeer/toc 
.

It's a filter filter called *toc* that allows you to retrieve titles in a 
table of contents as a flat list with a range of options:

   - *root*
   defines the title that is the root of your toc, e.g. TableOfContents, 
   defaults to currentTiddler
   
   - *level*
   a level up until the (tagging) tree is traversed
   
   - *exclude*
   a variable defining a filter of titles to be excluded
   
   - *truncate*
   a variable defining a filter of titles to be trunctated (not further 
   checked for children)
   
   - *list*
   a fieldname establising the hierarchy, by default: *tags*
   
   - *sort*
   a field by which to sort, use *!field-name* to sort DESC

It can be useful...

   1. to get an index of all titles in a toc
   2. to implement pagination through a toc

Best wishes,

Tobias.

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[tw] Re: Internal Javascript Error

[Sarah Fortenberry]

Thanks, everyone! I am assuming it is a browser extension. I'll disable a 
few and see what happens. 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-6, Sarah Fortenberry wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Every time I open TiddlyWiki.com or my own TiddlyWiki, this error message 
> pops up:
>
> 
>
> Does anyone know what the problem might be? 
>
> Sorry if this has already been addressed - I searched and found many other 
> posts about Internal Javascript Errors, but not this one. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sarah
>

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[tw] Re: TiddlyServer 1.0.0

[Gustav Wikström]

Hi, I just tried TiddlyServer as well and can report the same issue as the 
one David Gifford experienced.

Tiddlers have been published at different places on the harddrive. As an 
example; Tried to put them in a subfolder from the installation-path 
(C:/Temp/TiddlyServer/) and in a folder next to it. Tried both folder and 
file options.

I can go to http://localhost:8080 in the browser and it shows a list of 
available wikis, but using the links (which leads to 
http://loclhost:8080/whatever-chosen-path) just leaves the browser hanging.

Windows 10 64bit.

Kind regards
Gustav

Den lördag 3 december 2016 kl. 22:26:56 UTC+1 skrev Matthew Lauber:
>
> Where was the file you were importing located?

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[tw] Re: Filter using toc?

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Mario,
 

> I'm not sure, what you want to achieve
>

One useful thing could be a searchable index of everything in a toc.
Another useful thing would be to able to page through a toc as if a book.

Best wishes,

Tobias. 

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[tw] Re: display field values and custom text in a list of tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title

[Rene]

That's great!
Exactly what i was looking for!

Thanks a lot!

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[tw] Re: display field values and custom text in a list of tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Assuming your books all had something in common, like a Tag "Books" :

<$list filter="[tag[Books]]">
<$link><$view field="title"/> Published in <$view 
field="published"/> 




On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 10:33:44 AM UTC-8, Rene wrote:
>
> Is there an easy way to display field values and custom text in a list of 
> tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title?
>
> Let say: 
>
> Tiddler 1
> Title: My favourite book
> Custom field (published): "2017"
>
> Tiddler 2
> Title: My second favourite book
> Custom field (published): "2016"
>
> Custom text: ", published in "
>
>
> Output as links to specific tiddlers:
>
> - My favourite book, published in 2017
> - My second favourite book, published in 2016
>
>
> Greetings,
> Rene
>

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[tw] display field values and custom text in a list of tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title

[Rene]

Is there an easy way to display field values and custom text in a list of 
tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title?

Let say: 

Tiddler 1
Title: My favourite book
Custom field (published): "2017"

Tiddler 2
Title: My second favourite book
Custom field (published): "2016"

Custom text: ", published in "


Output as links to specific tiddlers:

- My favourite book, published in 2017
- My second favourite book, published in 2016


Greetings,
Rene

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[tw] Show field values and custom text in a list additional to list title

[Rene]

Is there an easy way to display field values and custom text in a list of 
tiddlers additional to the tiddler's title?

Let say: 

Tiddler 1
Title: My favourite book
Custom field (published): "2017"

Tiddler 2
Title: My second favourite book
Custom field (published): "2016"

Custom text: ", published in "


Output as links to specific tiddlers:

- My favourite book, published in 2017
- My second favourite book, published in 2016


Greetings,
Rene

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[tw] Re: [tw5] Collecting links for tiddlywiki.com

[Sylvain Naudin]

Hi,

I started this year (before a new job - so less time now) a Vimeo channel 
with somes screencast in french : https://vimeo.com/channels/tiddlywikifr

To store on Tutoriels tab I think.

Or maybe create in Resources en entry to enumerate french community links :

https://forum.tiddlywiki.fr (nothing a root at the moment, waiting for 
owner to resolve thing to update resources).
https://twitter.com/TiddlyWikiFR
https://vimeo.com/channels/tiddlywikifr

Best regards,
Sylvain

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Re: [tw] [tw5] Collecting links for tiddlywiki.com

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

PR submitted.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 10:34:36 PM UTC-8, Riz wrote:
>
> TiddlyServer by Matthew Lauber
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/QOoceRMdABE/IlJDtzsABgAJ
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Calling all TiddlyWiki users

[Arlen Beiler]

Hello Josiah and all,

Yes, the process is quite lengthy. But given the amount of exposure that
StackExchange sites usually get, I would say it is actually surprisingly
easy. There is no minimum time period for a proposal, only numerical
requirements, so given enough users, a site can actually get going fairly
quickly.

I believe during beta the moderators will be StackExchange employees. But
that only really makes a difference until there are users with 10k+ rep on
the site. Anyone with 10k+ rep has most of the permissions of an elected
moderator.

But most of the "moderating" can be done by anyone. It takes 5 close votes
to close a question, 5 to reopen, and for more edge cases, you can always
flag a post and leave a message for a moderator.

Once you have 2000 rep (I believe), you can approve edits to posts. And, of
course, upvotes generally gives an answer more visibility, so upvoting
great answers will make them more visible. The accepted answer is always at
the top.

I don't know the exact process to create a user account, but it should be
straight forward. And once you verify your email address, you're good to go.

The way voting works is we need 40 questions that each have 10 votes. So if
you have a certain question you want to be able to ask, post it, or find
one along that line and vote for it. Once a question has 10 votes, it's
good.

Everyone has 5 votes they can give, so that equates to 80 followers. We're
getting quite close to that number now, but we'll keep working until we get
the votes in.

I am expecting that once we get going, if all the questions on here get
taken over there, there will probably be a good amount of activity.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask them on here or on the
proposal there.

With Jesus' peace,
-Arlen


On Jan 9, 2017 11:47, "Josiah"  wrote:

> Ciao Arlen
>
> To help advance it it might be helpful to say a bit more about moderation
> and who is in control of it.
>
> The sign-up hurdles to getting to a working situation seem pretty extreme.
>
> The Stack Overflow/Exchange route is, IMO, a potentially really good one.
> But explicitness about both the process and the outcome seems important.
>
> Part of the problem you are likely encountering is the need to sign up in
> order to express anything or see anything much.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> On Monday, 9 January 2017 15:50:55 UTC+1, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>>
>> Thank you everyone for your participation so far. We have 48 proposed
>> questions so far.
>>
>> We have 48/60 followers needed so far, so let people know about. If you
>> like, you could post a link on whatever plugin sites you have. When it
>> enters the commitment phase, the same like should still work.
>>
>> We have 8 questions with 10 votes, and we need 40. So if you have not
>> done so yet, find 5 questions with less than. 10 votes that you think
>> should be on the site, and click the little up arrow on the left side.
>>
>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/105326/tiddlywiki?
>> referrer=kk4xS6VP59WB49QQOgt7xA2
>>
>> I'm looking forward to see how things go. After seeing a few other betas
>> I think we might have the mass it takes to get this site off the ground.
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2017 22:18, "Dmitry Sokolov"  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Arlen,
>>>
>>> added to the list of TW Forums:
>>> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792623/Tiddly
>>> Wiki%20Forums
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dmitry
>>>
>>> On Monday, 2 January 2017 13:36:41 UTC+13, Arlen Beiler wrote:

 Hello All,
 I thought I would post this again to bring it to everyone's attention.

 http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/105326/tiddlywiki?
 referrer=kk4xS6VP59WB49QQOgt7xA2

 If you're interested in participating, go to that URL and click on the
 orange "Follow It!" button.

 If you like the format of Stack Overflow, this is for you.

 On Dec 28, 2016 15:59, "jwd"  wrote:

 Plus, by revisiting, commenting on, and editing content to improve it
 you earn 'badges' that contribute to your stackexchange community
 abilities. Those can, if you are motivated enough, lead to additional
 'reputation' and responsibility. This is one of the aspects of
 StackExchange that makes some of its communities successful.

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[tw] Re: Internal Javascript Error

[Ed]

Dear Sarah,

Maybe this thread contains some help as I experienced same trouble some 
time ago.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/TW5$20Ed%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/kAJ-IhQODkk/NgVZBbp9CQAJ

Tschüß, Ed
.
.

Op woensdag 11 januari 2017 05:31:46 UTC+1 schreef Sarah Fortenberry:
>
> Hello,
>
> Every time I open TiddlyWiki.com or my own TiddlyWiki, this error message 
> pops up:
>
> 
>
> Does anyone know what the problem might be? 
>
> Sorry if this has already been addressed - I searched and found many other 
> posts about Internal Javascript Errors, but not this one. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sarah
>

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[tw] Re: Filter using toc?

[CL]

You could use this filter.
add more 'tagging[]' operator for depth of your toc

<$list filter="
[[TableOfContents]]
[[TableOfContents]tagging[]]
[[TableOfContents]tagging[]tagging[]]
[[TableOfContents]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]]
[[TableOfContents]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]]
[[TableOfContents]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]tagging[]]
">
<$link>{{!!title}}


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[tw] Re: Filter using toc?

[PMario]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 5:04:49 AM UTC+1, Steven Schneider wrote:
>
> I figure this must be possible, but can't quite get it to work. 
> How would I write a filter that would list all tiddlers listed with < "TableOfContents">>?
>

I'm not sure, what you want to achieve. ... The toc macro is a "relatively" 
straight forward recursive macro, that creates a structure using ordered 
lists. So changing this behaviour, to create a simple list, should be 
possible. 

If you want to print out a dynamically generated filter, that's used to 
create the toc, this should be possible too. .. But the result will be 
super ugly and barely readable for humans. We have to deal with "infinite 
recursion protection", which makes the filter ugly. 

Can you clarify the usecase a bit?

-mario

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