subject:"\[tw\] Re\: \[docs\] Introduction to Lists"

@Diego / Måns / Eric - kindly take the MissingManuals matters in a thread
separate from this one.

@tony wrote (and @tobaisch concurred)
>Can I suggest full code examples that a user can copy and past into an
*empty*.html

Well, no. Using *empty*.html to demo generated lists is a bad idea because
the it would have to be with shadow tids. Not very educational for newbies,
IMO.

I opted to use tiddlers that show up when this "Intro to Lists" is in the
context I aim for, i.e on tiddlywiki.com. The idea is not really that users
copy this tiddler into their own TWs.

@tobaisch - this thread is about the document that I/we are writing and
while it is (only) intended to be an "Introduction to Lists" it is not an
actual attempt at real teaching. The links are in the doc should lead you
to more detailed explanations. If you don't understand those explanations,
the best thing is for you to clearly explain what it is you want to achieve
or in more detail what it is about something that you don't understand so
that we can explain it. Just saying "I don't understand" makes it very
difficult for someone to explain because it is not clear WHAT you don't
understand. Be specific, please.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

2017-12-04 Thread Diego Mesa

Hey tob,

I’m pretty much a newb myself. I’m happy to help you some more offline (I’ll 
email you directly)

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists


>
> So I provided a link to 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#list-links%20Macro%20(Examples) 
> 
>  
> which shows how to use list-links.


Thats the problem.
*You think* you show me how to use list-links.
But I do not understand what you showed me.
Only you understand this explanation.
Everything is super easy and understandable for you.
You refer to a link on tiidlywiki.com and everything is fine.
It does not help if you keep showing it.
That's why I'm asking for examples.
We are spinning in a circle.
Thank you for your effort.
Regards
Tob

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

There's 2 different topics. 

You asked about "behind the scenes" so I explained how the <> 
macro works. I don't know if that is ever useful, but you asked.

The other topic seems to be about how to *use *list-links. So I provided a 
link to https://tiddlywiki.com/#list-links%20Macro%20(Examples) 

 
which shows how to use list-links.

You seem to have some other question.  Post your question clearly and I'm 
sure someone can help.

Mark 

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 10:30:36 AM UTC-8, tobaisch wrote:
>
> The website https://tiddlywiki.com is known to me.
> I also know all the examples there.
> If I search here in the forum I have already searched on 
> https://tiddlywiki.com before and found NOT a solution
> I just do not understand the explanations there.
> I can not find an answer to my questions there.
> That's why I ask here in the forum and hope for new explanations or 
> examples.
> Your Link: https://tiddlywiki.com/#list-links%20Macro%20(Examples)  d 
> oesnt
>  
> help.
>
> i mean how i used:
> type:"ul"
> subtype:"li"
> class:""
> *<$list filter="$filter$">?*
> <$subtype$>?
> <$link to={{!!title}}?
> the example: "<>" is everytime the same 
> example.
> Regards
> Tob
>
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

2017-12-04 Thread Måns Mårtensson

Hi Eric

I remember at one of the TiddlyWiki hangouts you told that a friend of
yours asked if he could get an empty version of your InsideTW document.

I'd love to see your InsideTW published as a TW-edition in its own right.

Is there any hope that you will publish it as a document we can use from
scratch?


Cheers Måns

2017-12-03 16:36 GMT+01:00 Eric Shulman :

> On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 6:38:52 AM UTC-8, Diego Mesa wrote:
>>
>> I just came across Eric Shulman's impressive "Inside TiddlyWiki: The
>> Missing Manual"!
>>
>> https://github.com/ericshulman/InsideTiddlyWiki
>>
>> I know there has been a lot of discussions recently about the best new
>> user experience and a bit of a refresh of tw.com centered on new users,
>> and I thought this contributes much to the discussion!
>>
>
> Thanks... it should be noted, however, that although the "TiddlyBook"
> framework and *outline* for topics is there, and some of the introductory
> materials have been written, much of the actual instructional content is
> still incomplete.  Unfortunately, while I have a clear idea of what I
> intend to write, progress on actually completing the book has been at a
> virtual standstill for quite some time due to personal circumstances
> outside of my control (primarily health-related problems).  I still plan to
> complete the work, but it's not there yet.  Thus, the "Missing Manuals" tag
> line in my signature.
>
> Also, the URL you provided is a link to the github repository for the
> book, but there is also a direct "GitHub Pages" URL that allows you to
> directly view and interact with the document online:
>
> http://tiddlytools.github.io/InsideTW/
>
> enjoy,
> -e
> Eric Shulman
> TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas!" (tm)
> InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals
>
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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists


The website https://tiddlywiki.com is known to me.
I also know all the examples there.
If I search here in the forum I have already searched on 
https://tiddlywiki.com before and found NOT a solution
I just do not understand the explanations there.
I can not find an answer to my questions there.
That's why I ask here in the forum and hope for new explanations or 
examples.
Your Link: https://tiddlywiki.com/#list-links%20Macro%20(Examples)  d 
oesnt
 
help.

i mean how i used:
type:"ul"
subtype:"li"
class:""
*<$list filter="$filter$">?*
<$subtype$>?
<$link to={{!!title}}?
the example: "<>" is everytime the same 
example.
Regards
Tob


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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

@tobaisch

is there a example-tiddler to understand how it works in "real life"
>

Note that  http://introductiontolists.tiddlyspot.com/ does contain examples 
BUT because they list tiddlers that are missing in that TW, nothing is 
seen. The tiddler is however intended for tiddlywiki.com where you will see 
the actual output in the examples.

You can drag the tiddler or manually copy its contents into a new tiddler 
on tiddlywiki.com to see the real output examples.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

You mean how it's used?

https://tiddlywiki.com/#list-links%20Macro%20(Examples)

Good luck
-- Mark

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:39:07 AM UTC-8, tobaisch wrote:
>
> thx mark,
> that looks not so clear to me.
> is there a example-tiddler to understand how it works in "real life"
>
> Regard
> Tob
>

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

thx mark,
that looks not so clear to me.
is there a example-tiddler to understand how it works in "real life"

Regard
Tob

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

Yes, in the actual macro it looks like this:

\define list-links(filter,type:"ul",subtype:"li",class:"")
> <$type$ class="$class$">
> *<$list filter="$filter$">*
> <$subtype$>
> <$link to={{!!title}}>
> <$transclude field="caption">
> <$view field="title"/>
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 
> \end
>

You can see that it's just a <$list> listwidget with additional stuff added.

-- Mark

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 8:57:41 AM UTC-8, tobaisch wrote:
>
>
>
> Am Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 01:49:25 UTC+1 schrieb Mat:
>>
>> Behind the scenes it really is a ListWidget with some styling.
>
>
>  Behind the scenes??
>

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists



Am Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 02:31:36 UTC+1 schrieb TonyM:
>
> Mat,
>
> Good work, Can I suggest full code examples that a user can copy and past 
> into an empty.html to see it working, in addition I hope we may include 
> examples that refer to the current tiddler using its title, tags or fields.
> Most people learn by doing.
>

Exactly Toby, that's my opinion too.
That's exactly how I learn. 

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

2017-12-04 Thread Jed Carty

The extra ~ are just because the wiki has camel case linking turned off so 
the ~ to suppress the wikification of camel case show up. They won't be 
visible on tiddlywiki.com.

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists



Am Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 03:27:25 UTC+1 schrieb Mark S.:
>
> Hi Mat,
>
>
> I think without examples that show at least the output, it will be 
> confusing to newbies. 
>

Exactly my opinion. 

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists



Am Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 01:49:25 UTC+1 schrieb Mat:
>
> Behind the scenes it really is a ListWidget with some styling.


 Behind the scenes??

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 4:26:40 PM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
> On my browser, WikiText and ListWidget (headlines) have tildes (~) 
> appearing in front of them. They don't show that when transferred to 
> tiddlywiki.com. Odd.
>

I guess you're talking about when you view it on my temporary site, i.e 
http://introductiontolists.tiddlyspot.com/ - i.e not on a TW of your own.

Yeah, it's probably something I've messed up in my TW template. This of 
course doesn't affect the issue we're dealing with. I just put up that site 
to share the end result of the document.

Thanks for your help.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists

On my browser, WikiText and ListWidget (headlines) have tildes (~) 
appearing in front of them. They don't show that when transferred to 
tiddlywiki.com. Odd.

Mark 

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 3:36:53 AM UTC-8, Mat wrote:
>
> @everybody
>
> I've filed a PR 
>  
> and you 
> can see the final(?) version  here 
> . Note that the links are 
> dead and the lists don't render because the doc is intended for 
> tiddlywiki.com that has the required data.
>
> Thanks to everyone who contributed!
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw] Re: [docs] Introduction to Lists