[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
The current version looks much better. Great job! That's great news, glad you like it. I'll try address some of your points below... One thing I immediately found better looking was to reduce the sidebar border to only 2px instead of 3px. Fair enough, I think this sort of thing really is down to personal preference. I set the width of the border to 3px so that it matched the line that separates the tiddlers. I tried having both thinner but felt that the tiddler divider wasn't visually strong enough at that width so therefore made it 3px with the sidebar border matching. Some more thoughts... A) Why do confirmation popups look different from the default popup message? Also, the public / private buttons are too small! There are still a few things that need modifying/tweaking and this seems to be one of them. Thanks for pointing it out. B) TiddlyWiki already comes with quite a bit of StyleSheetOverhead already making it difficult at times to find the right spot or to undo all the preapplied styling. With lattice there seem to be even more and way too many StyleSheetsThisAndThats. This makes the situation somewhat worse rather than better for TiddlySpace... from my point of view. Agreed, I have also had similar issues but now I will be looking to refactor, optimise and reduce the amount of CSS and the number of stylesheet tiddlers. It does need to be more manageable. C) Please, no word-wrap:break-word in the tabsets or anywhere else... Who even invented that? Hyphenation, anyone? Or, abbreviat...? ;o) I'll get on that too :) D) I find the margins left to the tiddlerDisplay and right to the sidebar to be quite a waste of real-estate. Think of people using iframes or screenshots or photo collections in their tiddlers. I'm afraid this is where I have to disagree with you (although there does seem to be 2 distinct camps), I am a firm believer in trying to make a site as usable and readable as possible. There is solid research that suggests people experience greater cognitive load and find it harder to read lines of text that are greater than 10-15 words long. This is a rule of thumb that is widely used in print media, like books, and becomes even more important when text is on screen. Using this as a baseline, whilst trying to utilise the space as efficiently as possible I decided on the current set up (in an ideal world I would even attempt to shorten the text lines further :) ). Using a standard font size with a resolution of 1280x800 the current tiddler width results in around 22-27 words. At a resolution of 1024x768 it results in around 12-16 words. With the margins reduced you start to get upwards of 30 which becomes harder to read. E) The buttons jump around when being hovered ...set a transparent border to the non-hovered buttons. Also, the gradient does not work properly, not even in FF. Or is it not supposed to? Ok, I'll check that out too. Eventually, I fiddled a bit more with the looks... http://latticetest.tiddlyspace.com Though I tend to sound rather critical ...all in all, this is a real neat theme! Not a problem, this sort of discussion is real good to have. Once again thanks for the comments. I'll carry on iterating and hopefully we'll solve some of the issues. Cheers, Colm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Some thoughts: * In GettingStarted the mentions of TiddlySpace are dead linkl. Unfortunate for a 'core' TW, not to mention for the welcoming tiddler. * Also, on the GettingStarted it reads MainMenu [...] on the *left* * The SiteIcon name/upload fields are not elegantly laid out, unevenly like that. * Great first impression of the color scheme, but the tabs box is another color. Would look better if the gradient comes from same blue. * (...and the *default* colors for edit mode are a bit funny, most of all too dark) * (BTW, am I the only one always getting Error saving ColorPalette: Forbidden unless manually open into edit mode and saving? Perhaps an issue for a separate thread.) * Also the Following bubble would look better if lighter. * That gradient box could be used as the separator between tiddlers instead of the thin but dark blue line currently seen on the top of the tiddlers. The tabs box could have the gradient going from blue (at bottom) to white, omitting the need for a top separator. * (Since you're positive to using gradients for the tabs, perhaps the whole top field or the MainMenu could be a (vertical) gradient? Design wise core TW has always been a bit stiff so a gradient here makes it a little more designy but still neutral.) * The search box could be a little further down (e.g as in Tobias demo). :-) On Sep 28, 7:20 pm, colmjude colmj...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all the great feedback. I've been revising lattice with that in mind: http://lattice.tiddlyspace.com/ My main aim was to clean up the UI whilst continuing to display all the features tiddlyspace has to offer. I've tried to exhibit all that tiddlyspace has to offer at the present and I will continue to optimise it as it matures. It doesn't introduce any new theming conventions so it should still be super easy to take this theme and make it your own, in whatever way you please. In fact, it would be great if you did that so that there is a whole host of themes available for new users to choose from. Osmosoft are planning to deploy this tomorrow which will affect some of the tiddlers in the system-theme space. For those of you wishing to add your own touches there will be one new tiddler, called StyleSheetColattice. When it gets deployed Osmosoft will provide details on a way to opt out of it for those that want to. Please take a look and let me know what you think, plus get in touch if you foresee any issues with the deployment. Colm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Thanks for the feedback everyone. We're shortly going to go live with the lattice theme. Chris and Fred are going to do the update shortly. If you'd prefer to stay with the older theme, you can simply include the new-eee space into your space. You can do that now, in advance of the change. Going forwards, we'd like to keep refining and improving the base theme in response to feedback, hopefully with regular updates. Best wishes Jeremy On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:37 PM, twgrp matiasg...@gmail.com wrote: Some thoughts: * In GettingStarted the mentions of TiddlySpace are dead linkl. Unfortunate for a 'core' TW, not to mention for the welcoming tiddler. * Also, on the GettingStarted it reads MainMenu [...] on the *left* * The SiteIcon name/upload fields are not elegantly laid out, unevenly like that. * Great first impression of the color scheme, but the tabs box is another color. Would look better if the gradient comes from same blue. * (...and the *default* colors for edit mode are a bit funny, most of all too dark) * (BTW, am I the only one always getting Error saving ColorPalette: Forbidden unless manually open into edit mode and saving? Perhaps an issue for a separate thread.) * Also the Following bubble would look better if lighter. * That gradient box could be used as the separator between tiddlers instead of the thin but dark blue line currently seen on the top of the tiddlers. The tabs box could have the gradient going from blue (at bottom) to white, omitting the need for a top separator. * (Since you're positive to using gradients for the tabs, perhaps the whole top field or the MainMenu could be a (vertical) gradient? Design wise core TW has always been a bit stiff so a gradient here makes it a little more designy but still neutral.) * The search box could be a little further down (e.g as in Tobias demo). :-) On Sep 28, 7:20 pm, colmjude colmj...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all the great feedback. I've been revising lattice with that in mind: http://lattice.tiddlyspace.com/ My main aim was to clean up the UI whilst continuing to display all the features tiddlyspace has to offer. I've tried to exhibit all that tiddlyspace has to offer at the present and I will continue to optimise it as it matures. It doesn't introduce any new theming conventions so it should still be super easy to take this theme and make it your own, in whatever way you please. In fact, it would be great if you did that so that there is a whole host of themes available for new users to choose from. Osmosoft are planning to deploy this tomorrow which will affect some of the tiddlers in the system-theme space. For those of you wishing to add your own touches there will be one new tiddler, called StyleSheetColattice. When it gets deployed Osmosoft will provide details on a way to opt out of it for those that want to. Please take a look and let me know what you think, plus get in touch if you foresee any issues with the deployment. Colm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jer...@osmosoft.com http://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Going forwards, we'd like to keep refining and improving the base theme in response to feedback, hopefully with regular updates. I think that's a good idea and general philosophy. Plugin or theme authors may extend their contents and thus automatically extend the spaces including them ...even if at the risk of breaking stuff here and there ...assuming minor consequences or at least information as to why the changes and how to adapt. At least, that's the kind of flexible and iterative approach I would find to be the most agile, hence fruitful. Cheers, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Thanks for all the great feedback. I've been revising lattice with that in mind: http://lattice.tiddlyspace.com/ My main aim was to clean up the UI whilst continuing to display all the features tiddlyspace has to offer. I've tried to exhibit all that tiddlyspace has to offer at the present and I will continue to optimise it as it matures. It doesn't introduce any new theming conventions so it should still be super easy to take this theme and make it your own, in whatever way you please. In fact, it would be great if you did that so that there is a whole host of themes available for new users to choose from. Osmosoft are planning to deploy this tomorrow which will affect some of the tiddlers in the system-theme space. For those of you wishing to add your own touches there will be one new tiddler, called StyleSheetColattice. When it gets deployed Osmosoft will provide details on a way to opt out of it for those that want to. Please take a look and let me know what you think, plus get in touch if you foresee any issues with the deployment. Colm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
4) I strongly recommend to implement second level tabs for SideBarTabs. Something similar to what you see here [1]. I find the list of tabs to quickly grow way too long for my tastes. [1]http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com The nested tabs for SideBarTabs are available at... http://tbtheme.tiddlyspace.com My own space... http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com ...now works with scrolling tabs instead. Cheers, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Hi Colm, The current version looks much better. Great job! One thing I immediately found better looking was to reduce the sidebar border to only 2px instead of 3px. Some more thoughts... A) Why do confirmation popups look different from the default popup message? Also, the public / private buttons are too small! B) TiddlyWiki already comes with quite a bit of StyleSheetOverhead already making it difficult at times to find the right spot or to undo all the preapplied styling. With lattice there seem to be even more and way too many StyleSheetsThisAndThats. This makes the situation somewhat worse rather than better for TiddlySpace... from my point of view. C) Please, no word-wrap:break-word in the tabsets or anywhere else... Who even invented that? Hyphenation, anyone? Or, abbreviat...? ;o) D) I find the margins left to the tiddlerDisplay and right to the sidebar to be quite a waste of real-estate. Think of people using iframes or screenshots or photo collections in their tiddlers. E) The buttons jump around when being hovered ...set a transparent border to the non-hovered buttons. Also, the gradient does not work properly, not even in FF. Or is it not supposed to? Eventually, I fiddled a bit more with the looks... http://latticetest.tiddlyspace.com Though I tend to sound rather critical ...all in all, this is a real neat theme! Cheers, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
Hi Jeremy, It looks clean. A few suggestions... 1) I find it to look either too basic or not basic enough ...it's somewhat in between. Although, I guess I would prefer the even more simplicistic variant. 2) For exemple, I'm not much of a fan of the sidebar being differently colored by default ...although there sure may designs where this looks great. I mean, if you do want contrast then at least go for the real deal, not some brownish-orange tabs and some pinkish orange tabcontents ...but strong orange for the tabs and a dim yellowish- orange for the contents ...both much more contrasting the otherwise blueish theme elements. 3) If you are giving the tiddlers a border, I would give the sidebar borders, too. 4) I strongly recommend to implement second level tabs for SideBarTabs. Something similar to what you see here [1]. I find the list of tabs to quickly grow way too long for my tastes. Also, I would prefer these tabs to be represented with strong icons rather than text labels. There are a number of good visual clues that would immediately come to mind for all of them. So, icons-(with-text-fallback-for-ie) would be much appreciated by myself. 5) I also much preferred the little calendar box in the current theme, it just looks good and made for a refreshing change over to the default TiddlyWiki theme. Cheers, Tobias. [1] http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Revised Default Theme for TiddlySpace
The ColorPalette is no problem for me, since it is automatically changed at startup anyway. What I don't like, is the StyleSheet approach to initialize the theme. Why is there no real theme, which can be nicely activated, without using the user StyleSheet shadow tiddler. And after some tweaking and some posts at the usergroup every user will have a zzConfig tiddler anyway. There should be a new search plugin. This is really missing. Logged out mode: GettingStarted tiddler tells me, that there are 5 tiddlers at spaces that I follow. If I click it, there is only one entry. a smiling bengillies :) using FF3.6.10, ubuntu 10.04 With my broser zoom level Sidebar shows Followin g Follower s resolution 1920x1080. -mario On Sep 24, 1:31 pm, Jeremy Ruston jeremy.rus...@gmail.com wrote: Osmosoft has been working on a revised default theme for TiddlySpace. It's actually not very different structurally from the current them. We've tried to tighten up the whitespace and margins by using a fixed grid, and to make it suitable as a basis for new themes. You can see the progress so far here: http://lattice.tiddlyspace.com/ The goal here is to come up with a clean, simple interface that exposes all of TiddlySpace's functionality. It is expected that individuals would customise the theme within their space to drop elements that they don't need. We'd welcome your feedback on the look and feel. Clearly we're not going to be able to make everyone happy with the default theme, but we'd like it to be something that most people would be happy to use most of the time. We'd like to make this theme live next week (which means that the contents of lattice.tiddlyspace.com would replace the contents of system-theme.tiddlyspace.com). We're particularly interested in discovering any gotchas with interfere with customisations you may have made already. Best wishes Jeremy -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jer...@osmosoft.comhttp://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
